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[Lemondish]

Scouring message boards for people to raid with is not a challenge it's an annoyance. It's also a segmented, smaller pool to try your luck with than having some type of in game queue system.

Doesn't mean they can't play it. That's the point I was making.

Furthermore, what makes you think a group like that will find success?

What challenge are you referring to? Posting on a message board to form up a raid team?

Hmm, you too?

Why do people seem to think this will be easy content? The whole point of not allowing pugs is to ram that idea home. This isn't going to be easy.

 

[David___]

IIRC Urk said that it took him and his squad 45 minutes just to open the door to the Vault. Nearly one whole hour before you get to the vault itself. There is no way you can guarantee that amount of time consecutively with randoms.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Well I guess this is what broke the camel's back for me. Maybe next time, Bungie.

 

[Ramocalypse]

Doesn't mean they can't play it. That's the point I was making.

Furthermore, what makes you think a group like that will find success

In some case though it could, there will be a lot of people who might find some time to play a raid but can't because their clan members are offline, or they can't find 2 people to fill their group. And I guess for me it's not just about beating it but experiencing it

 

[ZangBa]

IIRC Urk said that it took him and his squad 45 minutes just to open the door to the Vault. Nearly one whole hour before you get to the vault itself. There is no way you can guarantee that amount of time consecutively with randoms.

Honestly, that just sounds really boring and tedious. The gameplay in the beta wasn't exactly innovative, and the skill system didn't really inspire any confidence in its depth. Anyway, there is no reason a decent matchmaking tool wouldn't find an acceptable player to join when someone leaves in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Highlaw]

That can be what you think but... it's completely opposite of what Bungie's design goals are for the content. Saying that would be telling Bungie straight up that you think their designers are going to fail.

Well in the video linked below, Luke straight up says that "roles are organic", so there can't be complex mechanics, because Bungie can't account for, say, a specific Hunter Bladedancer grenade to do something to the 3rd Void-type minion that spawns when the boss touches the 4 golden bells, otherwise it'll attatch to the tank and blow up, leaving the rest of the group defenceless.

That scenario can't happen because there might be only 6 Titans, and Bungie has to account for that. When you add flexibility ("organic") you need to remove complexity. He also says "Nope, all of your jobs is to shoot guys!".

I'm not saying Raids are super easy, just that mechanics wise they'll be simple compared to WoW/Wildstar raids. And that a matchmaking system that calculates your stats and groups you up with people with similar stats would be a good option. Better than nada.

I'd argue this type of matchmaking is way better than looking at forums. Not only is it a time saver, but it groups you with the right people. It's very likely that you join forum "friends" because you like or know them, but they may be way behind you in stats and/or not play that well, but you still invite them because you don't want to be rude or excluded. For example 6 guys planned to raid and formed a steam group or whatever, but then 1 gets way ahead and 2 of them are occupied with something else - if you switch someone out everyone will be pissed. With matchmaking if you got ahead, you play with other randoms that got ahead, with no remorse or consequences.

Giving an option > not doing so. The only valid thing I've read is the "possibility of nerfing raids if casuals play and get beaten/frustrated in matchmaking" argument. First of all, people will complain regardless, and secondly, like it was metioned before, Bungie's stance could be NOT to nerf raids regardless of complaints. It's their design decision, but acessability shouldn't be affected by that. Keep the Raids untouched, but let people play them without elitist, annoying, unreasonable requirements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRQlCX3Ygs

 

[HiredN00bs]

Matchmaking into something that takes hours and requires saving and returning just doesn't make sense. Why do people keep ignoring these important facts?

 

[ZangBa]

Matchmaking into something that takes hours and requires saving and returning just doesn't make sense. Why do people keep ignoring these important facts?

Well, considering there's matchmaking for games where it can take potentially hours with raid locks it makes perfect sense.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Matchmaking into something that takes hours and requires saving and returning just doesn't make sense. Why do people keep ignoring these important facts?

Even if they included a brilliant matchmaking system for this, I think people will quickly discover that Raids (and high level Strikes even) just aren't going to be worth the time when you're coin tossing between these kind of players:

Randoms in Reach Firefight
-AFK for credits
-Grief
-Yell obscenities on mic
-Waste live pool
-Accumulate 30+ deaths

Randoms in CoD Ghosts Extinction
-Ignore skillpoint challenges (how do you fail a challenge that requires you to only melee for 30 seconds...)
-Refuse to share ammo or boosters
-Also yell obscenities on mic
-Quit in the lobby if someone doesn't have the right equipment selected

Both of these games have voice chat btw.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Well, considering there's matchmaking for games where it can take potentially hours with raid locks it makes perfect sense.

And what about suspend/resume? Just how would that work with mm? A coordinated team clocks sixteen hours without passing but you want the developer to sell THAT as an experience fit for mm? People are NOT thinking this through.

 

[Smokey]

Bungie is also the same dev being quoted in a Reach Vidoc as saying that getting Onyx ranking in Halo Reach was tantamount to being Roger Clemens in the MLB.

.

wut

 

[ZangBa]

Even if they included a brilliant matchmaking system for this, I think people will quickly discover that Raids (and high level Strikes even) just aren't going to be worth the time when you're coin tossing between these kind of players:

Randoms in Reach Firefight
-AFK for credits
-Grief
-Yell obscenities on mic
-Waste live pool
-Accumulate 30+ deaths

Randoms in CoD Ghosts Extinction
-Ignore skillpoint challenges (how do you fail a challenge that requires you to only melee for 30 seconds... lol)
-Refuse to share ammo or boosters
-Quit in the lobby if someone doesn't have the right equipment selected

Both of these games have voice chat btw.

This assumes everyone that randomly joining is instantly going to be an inferior player, which is a bit ludicrous. You could also add the guy who spanks everyone in the results screen, and the guy who shows everyone a neat trick to completing something more efficiently, or the guy on the mic who's explaining how a particular boss fight works. This is about as unlikely as finding the typical COD player who has invested enough time in the game to reach end game raids just so he can AFK. You'll probably end up finding half those types of people you've listed on the forums, and when someone inevitably decides he needs to leave due to some circumstance 20 minutes in or so, you will be wishing for a matchmaking system to handle the busy work for you.

The absence of a matchmaking system is archaic and lazy. That's about it. There is no reason content needs to be dumbed down other than a terrible precedence set by other developers.

 

[HiredN00bs]

wut

Analogies befuddle some people.

A:B::C

is comparing the relationships between, not the items directly. It says nothing about A or B's direct relationship with C or D.

Gold:Onyx::MLB player:Roger Clemens

It means you stand out from the crowd.

An Onyx player stands out from Gold players as Roger Clemens stands out from other MLB players.

I think top 25% ranked were Gold, top 5% Onyx, and the Arena also detailed your Onyx rank even further (top 95, 90,...,15, 10, 9, 8... percent). If you were top 1% Onyx, you might as well be the Roger Clemens of Arena.

 

[Rockyrock]

wut

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZboWw785u9M&t=6m23s

Analogies befuddle some people.
.

Nope, just another heavy exaggeration from a dev when trying to explain a feature in their game.

 

[Smokey]

Analogies befuddle some people.

A:B::C

is comparing the relationships between, not the items directly. It says nothing about A or B's direct relationship with C or D.

Gold:Onyx::MLB player:Roger Clemens

It means you stand out from the crowd.

An Onyx player stands out from Gold players as Roger Clemens stands out from other MLB players.

bruh i get the analogy lol

i was basically saying that is ridiculous

i must have missed that quote during the reach hype storm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZboWw785u9M&t=6m23s



Nope, just another heavy exaggeration from a dev when trying to explain a feature in their game.

the way he says it in the video is great

 

[ZangBa]

And what about suspend/resume? Just how would that work with mm? A coordinated team clocks sixteen hours without passing but you want the developer to sell THAT as an experience fit for mm? People are NOT thinking this through.

I don't even understand what you are trying to say here. If a coordinated team can't complete a raid in 16 hours, than that just sounds like the team is awful, or the content is ridiculously tedious. Hell, the chances of the same 6 guys being around to finish something so long is really low, that makes it sound like matchmaking would be perfect.

 

[Surface of Me]

Why are there people out there who defend developers giving less options to the player? You think it won't work or dont like randoms? Cool story bro, dont use MM and let those who want to use it use it.

 

[HiredN00bs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZboWw785u9M&t=6m23s



Nope, just another heavy exaggeration from a dev when trying to explain a feature in their game.

Love that ViDoc. Criticising Timmins for his animated explanation is lame. Remove the stick.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I don't even understand

That's the problem with most of the posts in this thread.

If a coordinated team can't complete a raid in 16 hours, than that just sounds like the team is awful, or the content is ridiculously tedious. Hell, the chances of the same 6 guys being around to finish something so long is really low, that makes it sound like matchmaking would be perfect.

Do you even know what matchmaking is? How is this working in your vision of it?

 

[Rockyrock]

And what about suspend/resume? Just how would that work with mm? A coordinated team clocks sixteen hours without passing but you want the developer to sell THAT as an experience fit for mm? People are NOT thinking this through.

very simple when you get a checkpoint and you back out it saves your progress right? So what's so difficult about entering MM at that checkpoint with other people at that same checkpoint. Crazy thinking I know...


and if you really think the raid will take 16 hours to complete I don't know what to tell you. Pro tip: eating up everything a dev tells you before a game launches isnt' exactly the greatest idea. Keep a level head,

 

[Highlaw]

(...)
The absence of a matchmaking system is archaic and lazy. That's about it. There is no reason content needs to be dumbed down other than a terrible precedence set by other developers.

Pretty much.

People in this thread aren't giving enough credit to a good matchmaking system and how people would act in Destiny's end-game.

If need be add punishment, for example you'd get banned from raiding for a week if you left X times. Players wouldn't go into matchmaking so lightly that way

 

[ZangBa]

That's the problem with most of the posts in this thread.

Selective quoting doesn't exactly strengthen your argument. So far there just hasn't been a legitimate argument about how matchmaking simply cannot be included.

Do you even know what matchmaking is? How is this working in your vision of it?

Someone leaves and another player joins automatically within a reasonable amount of time? I don't see what you are getting at.

 

[Karl2177]

I think it's funny to note how Bungie's attitude towards the simplicity of finding a game has changed over the past decade. I have a feeling the Raid will be only heavily played by a handful of people simply because it is going to be a pain in the ass to organize people to play it.

 

[HiredN00bs]

very simple when you get a checkpoint and you back out it saves your progress right? So what's so difficult about entering MM at that checkpoint with other people at that same checkpoint. Crazy thinking I know...


and if you really think the raid will take 16 hours to complete I don't know what to tell you. Pro tip: eating up everything a dev tells you before a game launches isnt' exactly the greatest idea. Keep a level head,

People know next to nothing about raids in Destiny, yet they're chomping at the bit to tell them why their design is wrong. I have a level head. You calling urk a liar?

Wait a minute, YOU don't know shit about raids in Destiny either. What makes you an authority, that I should doubt the developer, and a fine NeoGAF poster. All I've seen posted from you is overly sketipcal lame shit.

 

[Twilight Gap]

This assumes everyone that randomly joining is instantly going to be an inferior player, which is a bit ludicrous. You could also add the guy who spanks everyone in the results screen, and the guy who shows everyone a neat trick to completing something more efficiently, or the guy on the mic who's explaining how a particular boss fight works. This is about as unlikely as finding the typical COD player who has invested enough time in the game to reach end game raids just so he can AFK. You'll probably end up finding half those types of people you've listed on the forums, and when someone inevitably decides he needs to leave due to some circumstance 20 minutes in or so, you will be wishing for a matchmaking system to handle the busy work for you.

The absence of a matchmaking system is archaic and lazy. That's about it. There is no reason content needs to be dumbed down other than a terrible precedence set by other developers.

I did mention that it's a coin toss. On the one side, there are the guys who share tricks and strategies and spank everyone in the results screen - I met people like this in Ghosts who showed me the ropes and ended up on my friend's list. On the other, there are [often] the ones I listed. Your mileage may vary of course, but I've had considerably less luck over the years.

Im not saying the system they are using now is the best (especially with the lack of communication tools), but I don't think simply integrating matchmaking like the Strikes have is the route they should take either.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

To me it seems the group insertion points (friends raid pausing) has come about from the varied experiences with Halo matchmaking. Basically how many griefers, cheaters, quitters, ill-skill matched and all that are present in matchmaking. Now look at how that change since Halo 2 going online. Take a look at approx. 50% of Halo copies remaining in campaign only or Spartan Ops being designed as a bridge from coop/solo campaign to multiplayer for such reasons.

Have a look at the metrics from ODST friends only vs. say firefight or coop campaign matchmaking and I think you'll see why the insertion points and friends only opposed to matchmaking for raids is a risky bet Bungie are willing to take. It makes sense to me that you and your friends arrange times to play or see each other online and join up so you're wanting features like this. Matchmaking with a pause and rejoin later would basically require you to become friends with those to rejoin with, the logic isn't there people.

It's straight up a friends feature and it's sounding damned good to me.

Now look at it in terms of how Destiny is designed and you'll see ample opportunities with seamless matchmaking, tower inspecting, strikes, B.net/app clans and huge friends lists on next gen consoles to deliver avenues to gain friends for such features. Build it and they will come sort of thing.

EDIT: A join in progress matchmaking means players could just quit join until they join at say the 6 hours mark ending and all the other players have done the leg work etc.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Selective quoting doesn't exactly strengthen your argument. So far there just hasn't been a legitimate argument about how matchmaking simply cannot be included.



Someone leaves and another player joins automatically within a reasonable amount of time? I don't see what you are getting at.

Oh, DIDO in epic endgame content, sure, ship it. Why do I waste my fucking time?

We can resume this discussion when the game comes out and we can actually speak intelligently about it.

 

[pieatorium]

And what about suspend/resume? Just how would that work with mm? A coordinated team clocks sixteen hours without passing but you want the developer to sell THAT as an experience fit for mm? People are NOT thinking this through.

you mean like in wow how dead bosses would stay dead for the lockout period, often the trash mobs associated with that boss or how raids were often broken up into sections you could do a chunk at a time smetimes with a teleporter to get instantly to where you left off?


Serious question have you ever played a game with similar mechanics to this before?

 

[HiredN00bs]

Serious question have you ever played a game with similar mechanics to this before?

No, and according to the article, neither have you.

 

[ZangBa]

I did mention that it's a coin toss. On the one side, there are the guys who share tricks and strategies and spank everyone in the results screen - I met people like this in Ghosts who showed me the ropes and ended up on my friend's list. On the other, there are [often] the ones I listed. Your mileage may vary of course, but I've had considerably less luck over the years.

Im not saying the system they are using now is the best (especially with the lack of communication tools), but I don't think simply integrating matchmaking like the Strikes have is the route they should take either.

Destiny's end game content will likely be played by people who care more than the typical guy who's just looking for a quick Team Deathmatch game, though. I'd like to think your experience would be better considering the amount of time investment required to even participate in raids. Nonetheless, a matchmaking tool is just an option that should be included, so even if you didn't want to play with randoms, nothing would force you.

Also, I'd like to a dd that a matchmaking tool in Destiny shouldn't be as simple as something you'd see in a typical shooter. There should be plenty of options for preferences and etc.

 

[Rockyrock]

People know next to nothing about raids in Destiny, yet they're chomping at the bit to tell them why their design is wrong. I have a level head. You calling urk a liar?

he is human last I checked.

In terms of the whole 16 hour raid (if true) they stated that there are no waypoints, no one telling you what do to. So it's quite possible that they just simply couldn't figure out how to progress, not that it was gruelingly hard. (also who the hell is this "top clan", what does that even mean? was their a competition held in the beta to determine who's the best?)

That would be fine, only problem is this is 2014. There will be hundreds of videos within the first 2 weeks detailing exactly what to do and how to do it the most efficient way. Like they stated in the article people will be able to clear well under 3 hours once they know what they're doing.

All of that aside there is no valid reason yet why there can't be an MM option given, as long as they don't nerf the difficulty to take away from the hardcore aspect of it.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Nonetheless, a matchmaking tool is just an option that should be included, so even if you didn't want to play with randoms, nothing would force you.

At this point I wish they would toggle it on just make people eat their words...I doubt they deem that worth injuring the experience.

All of that aside there is no valid reason yet why there can't be an MM option given, as long as they don't nerf the difficulty to take away from the hardcore aspect of it.

How about it's a bad fucking idea to offer the player a UI option/game mode that has an 80% chance of being literally unplayable. Needs six players. One quits. One goes AFK. One doesn't cooperate. Maybe it's designed to be the same six going through the entire experience together? Like I said, we know jack shit about the details.

he is human last I checked.

So, because urk is a human, we should assume what he typed was false. Like I said, y'all are a waste of fucking time. Peace!

 

[Metfanant]

I understand and APPLAUD their stance on this...but I can almost guarantee that they will eventually add matchmaking to this..if these things are as difficult as Bungie wants us to think they are...you're really gonna need 5-6 people for this (can you even do it with less than 6 in you're fireteam?)

But for the avg player...getting 5 other friends together for hours at a time might be a problem

 

[Lemondish]

At this point I wish they would toggle it on just make people eat their words...I doubt they deem that worth injuring the experience.


How about it's a bad fucking idea to offer the player a UI option/game mode that has an 80% chance of being literally unplayable.

Nobody gets this. The content isn't for randoms. It is designed to provide a challenge to coordinated groups. The only thing that the 'option' for matchmaking will do is inundate the community with constant requests to lower the difficulty all because nobody will understand why it was designed to be so hard.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Destiny's end game content will likely be played by people who care more than the typical guy who's just looking for a quick Team Deathmatch game, though. I'd like to think your experience would be better considering the amount of time investment required to even participate in raids. Nonetheless, a matchmaking tool is just an option that should be included, so even if you didn't want to play with randoms, nothing would force you.

Also, I'd like to a dd that a matchmaking tool in Destiny shouldn't be as simple as something you'd see in a typical shooter. There should be plenty of options for preferences and etc.

I'm honestly surprised at how simple [i.e. primitive] the matchmaking was considering the amount of options they had in Reach. No voting, social preferences, or (of course) chat options may effectively stunt its growth.

Would like to think that Bungie always knows what they're doing, but I don't think they're exempt from misreading the playerbase or making bad calls, the worst of which seems to be the way they're handling chat.

 

[Ramocalypse]

At this point I wish they would toggle it on just make people eat their words...I doubt they deem that worth injuring the experience.


How about it's a bad fucking idea to offer the player a UI option/game mode that has an 80% chance of being literally unplayable. Needs six players. One quits. One goes AFK. One doesn't cooperate. Maybe it's designed to be the same six going through the entire experience together? Like I said, we know jack shit about the details.


So, because urk is a human, we should assume what he typed was false. Like I said, y'all are a waste of fucking time. Peace!

Well I'll take 20% playable over 0%, which will be the case for a lot of people that reach this point in the game. Maybe I just don't appreciate the concept of exclusive content.

 

[Surface of Me]

Nobody gets this. The content isn't for randoms. It is designed to provide a challenge to coordinated groups. The only thing that the 'option' for matchmaking will do is inundate the community with constant requests to lower the difficulty all because nobody will understand why it was designed to be so hard.

If a raid takes 2/3s of an entire fucking day to complete with friends, you're already going to get that. Moot point. Options dont hurt.

 

[ChrisMahoney]

Well in the video linked below, Luke straight up says that "roles are organic", so there can't be complex mechanics, because Bungie can't account for, say, a specific Hunter Bladedancer grenade to do something to the 3rd Void-type minion that spawns when the boss touches the 4 golden bells, otherwise it'll attatch to the tank and blow up, leaving the rest of the group defenceless.

That scenario can't happen because there might be only 6 Titans, and Bungie has to account for that. When you add flexibility ("organic") you need to remove complexity. He also says "Nope, all of your jobs is to shoot guys!".

I'm not saying Raids are super easy, just that mechanics wise they'll be simple compared to WoW/Wildstar raids. And that a matchmaking system that calculates your stats and groups you up with people with similar stats would be a good option. Better than nada.

I'd argue this type of matchmaking is way better than looking at forums. Not only is it a time saver, but it groups you with the right people. It's very likely that you join forum "friends" because you like or know them, but they may be way behind you in stats and/or not play that well, but you still invite them because you don't want to be rude or excluded. For example 6 guys planned to raid and formed a steam group or whatever, but then 1 gets way ahead and 2 of them are occupied with something else - if you switch someone out everyone will be pissed. With matchmaking if you got ahead, you play with other randoms that got ahead, with no remorse or consequences.

Giving an option > not doing so. The only valid thing I've read is the "possibility of nerfing raids if casuals play and get beaten/frustrated in matchmaking" argument. First of all, people will complain regardless, and secondly, like it was metioned before, Bungie's stance could be NOT to nerf raids regardless of complaints. It's their design decision, but acessability shouldn't be affected by that. Keep the Raids untouched, but let people play them without elitist, annoying, unreasonable requirements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRQlCX3Ygs

Have you beaten every Halo on Legendary? Now think of that difficulty, but with coordinating a bunch of players with no respawns. I'd say that can be as hard as your standard WoW raid.

 

[Ramocalypse]

Nobody gets this. The content isn't for randoms. It is designed to provide a challenge to coordinated groups. The only thing that the 'option' for matchmaking will do is inundate the community with constant requests to lower the difficulty all because nobody will understand why it was designed to be so hard.

Im sure you're right but I just wish they would stick to their guns with difficulty as opposed to inaccessibility. Either way people are gonna bitch.

 

[NullPointer]

At this point I wish they would toggle it on just make people eat their words...I doubt they deem that worth injuring the experience.

At first blush I'd guess that matchmaking in raids would be the very best mechanism to find players who you can form a custom group from. You'd run into people who fit your playstyle and others who don't, but you'd be operating with a large pool of players who are the right level and want to tackle a raid and wanted to do so when you wanted to play. Wouldn't that be an even better recruiting ground to find like-minded players? From actually playing the mode?

And hell, why are people assuming that it'd be just a collection of random players? It could be two tight-knit groups of three players. It could be five players using matchmaking to get a sixth to round out their group. Maybe people go through the effort of inviting out of band through forums, but still can't get six players when they have the time to play. It seems so needless and foolish and exclusionary to cut those players out of a mode in their own game. Not when there are alternatives.

But hey, that's their choice. I just don't understand the mindset.

 

[Metfanant]

At first blush I'd guess that matchmaking in raids would be the very best mechanism to find players who you can form a custom group from. You'd run into people who fit your playstyle and others who don't, but you'd be operating with a large pool of players who are the right level and want to tackle a raid and wanted to do so when you wanted to play. Wouldn't that be an even better recruiting ground to find like-minded players? From actually playing the mode?

And hell, why are people assuming that it'd be just a collection of random players? It could be two tight-knit groups of three players. It could be five players using matchmaking to get a sixth to round out their group. Maybe people go through the effort of inviting out of band through forums, but still can't get six players when they have the time to play. It seems so needless and foolish and exclusionary to cut those players out of a mode in their own game. Not when there are alternatives.

Exactly...for instance my close group of gaming friends that will have this game.on the PS4 is 4 people...matchmaking and picking up a group of two or a couple singles would be great...

For the record...CAN a group of say 4 players even play by themselves?

 

[Ramocalypse]

And hell, why are people assuming that it'd be just a collection of random players? It could be two tight-knit groups of three players. It could be five players using matchmaking to get a sixth to round out their group. Maybe people go through the effort of inviting out of band through forums, but still can't get six players when they have the time to play. It seems so needless and foolish and exclusionary to cut those players out of a mode in their own game. Not when there are alternatives.

So much this. My group will be in this situation more often than not, and if it comes down to us not being able to find a 6th because no matchmaking, we will probably abandon ship as will a lot of other players, eventually just ditching raids altogether. The less people that raid, the more difficult it will be to justify developing additional raid content. This decision is incredibly short-sighted IMO.

 

[ZangBa]

And hell, why are people assuming that it'd be just a collection of random players? It could be two tight-knit groups of three players. It could be five players using matchmaking to get a sixth to round out their group. Maybe people go through the effort of inviting out of band through forums, but still can't get six players when they have the time to play. It seems so needless and foolish and exclusionary to cut those players out of a mode in their own game. Not when there are alternatives.

But hey, that's their choice. I just don't understand the mindset.

A great point I failed to mention.

 

[Jest Chillin]

you mean like in wow how dead bosses would stay dead for the lockout period, often the trash mobs associated with that boss or how raids were often broken up into sections you could do a chunk at a time smetimes with a teleporter to get instantly to where you left off?


Serious question have you ever played a game with similar mechanics to this before?

So you're just going to ignore the fact that lockouts make it harder to recruit fill in players because they're:

1) Looking for loot from a boss already killed?
2) Not interested in only a portion of the bosses?
3) Not interested in a group that couldn't get to X boss before they had to stop?
4) Not interested in getting locked to random group because their Guild has a run scheduled later that week?

It largely depends on how the lockout works but don't paint MMO lockouts as easy to find replacements for.

Destiny's end game content will likely be played by people who care more than the typical guy who's just looking for a quick Team Deathmatch game, though. I'd like to think your experience would be better considering the amount of time investment required to even participate in raids. Nonetheless, a matchmaking tool is just an option that should be included, so even if you didn't want to play with randoms, nothing would force you.

Also, I'd like to a dd that a matchmaking tool in Destiny shouldn't be as simple as something you'd see in a typical shooter. There should be plenty of options for preferences and etc.

The problem is that if the casual player has constant bad impressions of that content due to poor group performance, they're more likely to walk away with a negative impression and they'll, in turn, start blaming everyone (including Bungie) but themselves for it. People who have negative opinions of something tend to voice them more often and much louder than those who are ok or who enjoy it.

he is human last I checked.

In terms of the whole 16 hour raid (if true) they stated that there are no waypoints, no one telling you what do to. So it's quite possible that they just simply couldn't figure out how to progress, not that it was gruelingly hard. (also who the hell is this "top clan", what does that even mean? was their a competition held in the beta to determine who's the best?)

That would be fine, only problem is this is 2014. There will be hundreds of videos within the first 2 weeks detailing exactly what to do and how to do it the most efficient way. Like they stated in the article people will be able to clear well under 3 hours once they know what they're doing.

All of that aside there is no valid reason yet why there can't be an MM option given, as long as they don't nerf the difficulty to take away from the hardcore aspect of it.

The top clan that tested the content did so before Alpha if I'm not mistaken. And if I had to hazard a guess, it was more than likely a Halo Clan who posted higher than average performance numbers based on Bungie's internal metrics. It's quite possible that they weren't prepared at all for the challenges they were going to face because they were expecting more of a typical FPS experience. However, 16 hours total of attempts, without a clear, is nothing to scoff at.

It's also a bit unreasonably cynical to suggest that DeeJ or Urk straight up lied about that clan's attempts. It's fine to have doubts about things but it's ridiculous to take such an extreme stance.

I understand and APPLAUD their stance on this...but I can almost guarantee that they will eventually add matchmaking to this..if these things are as difficult as Bungie wants us to think they are...you're really gonna need 5-6 people for this (can you even do it with less than 6 in you're fireteam?)

But for the avg player...getting 5 other friends together for hours at a time might be a problem

I don't know that they'll necessarily add matchmaking eventually. I mean.. I could see it if the reaction was obscenely negative overall.. but I think it's more likely that the Raid would see a nerf once new Raids are introduced.

I also don't think it's that difficult for the avg player to find 5 other friends. The average player tends to try to join large groups if possible, largely because average players don't tend to be as picky about who they want to play with.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

I just don't see why it just can't be an option. People who have groups of six can use their group, people who are solo or have smaller groups get match made. Why is having an option such a game-breaking idea?

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

I understand and APPLAUD their stance on this...but I can almost guarantee that they will eventually add matchmaking to this..if these things are as difficult as Bungie wants us to think they are...you're really gonna need 5-6 people for this (can you even do it with less than 6 in you're fireteam?)

But for the avg player...getting 5 other friends together for hours at a time might be a problem

You APPLAUD having fewer options? Wow. You're easy to impress.

 

[Rafterman]

At this point I wish they would toggle it on just make people eat their words...I doubt they deem that worth injuring the experience.


How about it's a bad fucking idea to offer the player a UI option/game mode that has an 80% chance of being literally unplayable. Needs six players. One quits. One goes AFK. One doesn't cooperate. Maybe it's designed to be the same six going through the entire experience together? Like I said, we know jack shit about the details.


So, because urk is a human, we should assume what he typed was false. Like I said, y'all are a waste of fucking time. Peace!

Maybe you should heed your own words?

Options FTW, fanboy defense force can shove off.

 

[Jest Chillin]

At first blush I'd guess that matchmaking in raids would be the very best mechanism to find players who you can form a custom group from. You'd run into people who fit your playstyle and others who don't, but you'd be operating with a large pool of players who are the right level and want to tackle a raid and wanted to do so when you wanted to play. Wouldn't that be an even better recruiting ground to find like-minded players? From actually playing the mode?

And hell, why are people assuming that it'd be just a collection of random players? It could be two tight-knit groups of three players. It could be five players using matchmaking to get a sixth to round out their group. Maybe people go through the effort of inviting out of band through forums, but still can't get six players when they have the time to play. It seems so needless and foolish and exclusionary to cut those players out of a mode in their own game. Not when there are alternatives.

But hey, that's their choice. I just don't understand the mindset.

That's why there is matchmaking throughout all the content you do before you hit raids. So that you can befriend and add people that you play well with.

Raids are the very last thing that you accomplish in games like this. This is not a Day 1 or Day 2 activity that you do after you clear the Story Missions. Players will have to farm (aka play over and over) the highest level Strikes before they accumulate the proper gear to even take on the Raid. As far as we know, every activity outside of Raids has Matchmaking. So make friends there and use that as your pool to recruit Raid members from.

 

[Metfanant]

You APPLAUD having fewer options? Wow. You're easy to impress.

And you have no reading comprehension skills

That's why there is matchmaking throughout all the content you do before you hit raids. So that you can befriend and add people that you play well with.

Raids are the very last thing that you accomplish in games like this. This is not a Day 1 or Day 2 activity that you do after you clear the Story Missions. Players will have to farm (aka play over and over) the highest level Strikes before they accumulate the proper gear to even take on the Raid. As far as we know, every activity outside of Raids has Matchmaking. So make friends there and use that as your pool to recruit Raid members from.

And you're simply missing the point...most people are simply not going to be that social of a gamer...they are going to want to play with their group of friends..they won't have other people to join up with..they are not going to try out different players in the other modes to see who plays well with them...that's just asinine...

Bungie is going to HAVE to add match making because they are going to face a shit storm from people that feel they are being blocked from a mode simply because they don't have enough friends available to play with...

 

[Lemondish]

If a raid takes 2/3s of an entire fucking day to complete with friends, you're already going to get that. Moot point. Options dont hurt.

I'm not worried about my experience. The only thing that could ruin it would be if the inclusion of mm resulted in a significant reduction in the difficulty simple because it now must be tuned for random pugs.