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Does Bungie know what they're doing with Destiny?

Destiny is a beautiful game with polished gameplay to match. Yet its puzzling, shortsighted and often contradictory design decisions often hold it back from reaching its potential. In the month since launch, it's seen weekly updates; however, despite Bungie's insistence on listening to feedback, they seem unsure of where they want to take it. Let's take a look:

Week 1: Destiny saw a rather smooth launch, reaching $325 million in sales for the first 5 days and averaging 3.2 million players since. However, some of those players either have to wait a while to connect or are still experiencing connection problems. Fortunately, Bungie has been steadily improving its netcode stability and connection issues. Big props to their network team for being consistent.

The gameplay has also seen its share of issues. Many problems carried over from the alpha and beta, such as overpowered multiplayer weapons, audio glitches, and hit detection delay, as was well as an outstanding lack of social features. Players also became aware of the true final boss - RNG and its messiah Master Rahool, aka the Cryptarch. His deceptively calm demeanor and sarcastic tone quickly became a source of frustration, to the point where he manifested a personality in a game completely devoid of any characters.

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Week 2: Destiny's Raid opened the following week, sending the community scrambling to reach level 26 to try their hand at it. It wasn't long before it was conquered and strategies were set, but we learned that Master Rahool had his hand in this jar as well. Rewards for completing Destiny's most difficult content were earned no more than any other random drop in the game, leaving many frustrated. The Vault of Glass already came with a somewhat steep barrier for entry, but players discovered the real struggle was keeping your coveted exotic hidden while everyone else scored ascendant shards from that loot chest.

Week 3: The Queen's Wrath began on the 23rd of September and ran until the 6th of October. It was Destiny's first "event" and was designed to help players gear up for the raid with guaranteed legendary armor. Although it didn't introduce new locations to the game, players appreciated this means of progression, especially since duplicate sets would break down into those suddenly necessary ascendant shards required for upgrading gear. Unfortunately, Bungie didn't anticipate the surge of the "rare" items, so they removed them from the queen materials a mere 2 days later. The queen's wrath was demoted to a princess tantrum and became irrelevant to many players for the remainder of her stay. Unless you really liked the color magenta.

It's also worth mentioning that on the same day we waved goodbye to the Loot Cave of Wonders. Destiny's most social activity was put on trial, leaving a hole in many of our hearts (no pun intended). Guardians have searched far and wide for a replacement, but as they say you never forget your first (you can patch the second though). Those of you still experiencing withdrawals and flashbacks as you wander the Skywatch may find solace in this virtual replacement.

Week 4: The 1st of October, otherwise known as "After Cryptarch", marked the announcement of the highly anticipated loot patch. This sought to provide clarity to the decrpytion process of the loot system and shift around the importance of some items. But it hasn't been all celebrations since. Legendary packages from leveling up the Cryptarch still often turn into blue items, and your legendary items now have a penchant for turning into those glorious ascendant materials.

If you were relying on random loot to progress before or after this patch, it may please you to know it's not the main method of leveling up in Destiny. You can grind reputation to buy gear from the factions so that you can level up to 29. Raid Armor will carry you to the max level of 30, so you go to a website to find players for a raid and... wait, I guess you're still depending on random loot to hit 30 since you can either get two of the same piece in a raid or no raid gear at all after half a dozen runs. RNG is still the final boss.

Some even became followers of this false deity, submitting their Guardian's souls to the random-but-not-random loot system. Their bodies are now lifeless husks as they AFK in strikes and crucible playlists. Boasting their thickest rubberbands and sturdiest ethernet cables, they've parked themselves firmly at their spawns, often successfully earning the most powerful gear by giving the least amount of effort required. Instead of dropping into a strike and marching steadfast onto the horizon to throw bullets at a boss, players turn the opposite direction to make sure their teammates haven't traded their souls to the darkness for exotic weapons.

The last change of note lowered the weighting of the larger maps in the game. A change we deserved, but not the one we needed right now. Elaborating, many maps still feature ridiculously unbalanced and longstanding spawn and objective placement issues, leaving players to wonder when Destiny's multiplayer is to sort itself out.

Week 5: First available in the beta, the Iron Banner Tournament returned on the 7th of this month and ended yesterday on the 14th. Whereas some stats are normalized in normal PvP to preserve a "level playing field", Iron Banner enables level advantages where your gear and weapons matter. Or not. Iron Banner's differences, while subtle, once again left players confused, and many are no longer optimistic for the next "events". If anything, Iron Banner compounded the quitting and AFKing problems already present in PvP. Bungie attempted to offer some clarity at least...

Looks like PvP players are still waiting.

Week 6: Yesterday ushered in a patch that would attempt to balance the playing field in Crucible and rid Destiny's raid of some rotten cheese. But did it?

It may be too early to call, but for now it seems we've simply traded one villain for another. The balance of power in multiplayer has simply moved on to another host, while other much sought after weapons now cower in a corner, nerfed to oblivion and no longer a fitting token of Destiny's end-game content. No, instead here's some more ascendant materials and an armor shader you've already gotten 3 times. But that's what happens when you exploit the bosses, right? Well, the bandages added to parts of the raid haven't done much to deter players from finding other cheese methods strategies to tip the fight in their favor either. Believe or it not, it's actually spawned its own economy reminiscent of loot cave days. While this update is more direct than past ones, it also is a great example of trimming the weeds instead of digging out the roots.

I've largely enjoyed the game since first playing it in June, so it's frustrating to have to relearn it every week. These updates tend to take a step forward in one direction and then often immediately take a step back. I've come to expect more both in consistency and clarity, but i feel that their responses aren't very encouraging. I still continue to play and offer my feedback, but between excessive timegates and things players look forward to being changed as soon as they're available, it's tough. Destiny is the first game I want to play that doesn't want me to play it.

What do you expect from Bungie and from this game going forward? Do you think they'll be able to eventually weed out these issues, refocus their vision for the game and steer it in a successful direction? Or will the darkness continue to claw at the servers and unleash the ark of errors on us for all eternity?

Destiny_Ascendant_Shard.jpg
Destiny_Ascendant_energy.jpg


edit: links of note

Interview with Lead Designer Luke Smith: http://tmi.kotaku.com/q-a-the-lead-designer-of-destinys-vault-of-glass-1647227058
Guardian Radio Podcast with Community Manager DeeJ: http://theguardiansofdestiny.com/2014/10/14/guardian-radio-episode-82/
 

Leyasu

Banned
Ofcourse, bungie knows best.

Just look at some of things they have done with their halo games and then stubbornly refused to change..
 
They dont have a fricking clue. They are still in the panic mode they went into a few months before the game was released, and have yet to even admit they gutted the game despite all the loose ends in the game and the pre-release footage of elements that have mysteriously evaporated.
 

Lothars

Member
They know what they are doing, they made one of the best games of the year and now they just need to release more content for it.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I believe Bungie knows what they want to do with Destiny.

I don't think they actually realize the ramifications of the choices they're making, however.

They're so insistent that people play a particular way that they're increasingly REMOVING unique, fun ways to play to force people to play the way they want. Rather than coming up with more stuff to do and ways to do them (which is what we're all clamoring for), they're tightening the noose on fun, and their game.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
They got in bed with Activision is what they did. Look what happened to Raven Soft. They used to make creative and fun FPS titles and now they're stuck making map packs for CoD.

I fear for you, Bungie!
No but seriously, they seem to have dropped the ball on Destiny, I hope they can make it work, for the userbase's sake
 

JNA

Banned
It's so BS how I do a raid four times and only ONCE did I get one raid armor piece (gloves). Seriously the raids can be difficult enough as it is but for Christ sake at least GIVE ME A CHANCE to hit lv 30.

The RNG in this game is one of the most mind boggling things I have ever seen and experienced in gaming. And THAT is coming from a guy who plays card games like Yugioh, Hearthstone, or the other loot game Vanilla Diablo 3.
 
Still bitter about Team BRs @ Ascension (the gametype that replaced the Rocket Launcher) with the Banshee still enabled on Halo 2.

Bungie can be head-scratchingly dumb at times.
 

DocSeuss

Member
They got in bed with Activision is what they did. Look what happened to Raven Soft. They used to make creative and fun FPS titles and now they're stuck making map packs for CoD.

I fear for you, Bungie!
No but seriously, they seem to have dropped the ball on Destiny, I hope they can make it work, for the userbase's sake

I wish people would stop saying this. It isn't the problem. They're not an Activision studio the way Raven is. Activision OWNS Raven. Activision doesn't own Destiny, and there's been no compelling evidence that ATVI's done anything.

This is squarely on Bungie.

I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of the talent behind the Bungie games (y'know, like Griesemer, who had been around since at least Combat Evolved up through reach) moved on. Tipul went off to make Enemy Starfighter. Staten's storytelling's over at Microsoft now. Lehto's going indie, apparently.
 

Welfare

Member
Until I get the rest of the raid armor after 4 attempts, no, they have no idea what they are doing. Why are people getting rewards they already got from the raid, when there are rewards just waiting behind the RNG line to be picked? There isn't even any trading so I can give these items to friends.
 

lem0n

Member
Yeah they know what they're doing. It's a brand new "mmo" so of course there's some big changes that need to happen, and some polish that needs applied. But they made a very fun game that is selling well, and being played by a lot of people, every day. Regardless of whether or not you like it, or anyone else here likes it, it's doing well. If Bungie had no idea what they were doing with Destiny I think it would be a little worse off than you think, no?
 

Talon

Member
Yeah they know what they're doing. It's a brand new "mmo" so of course there's some big changes that need to happen, and some polish that needs applied. But they made a very fun game that is selling well, and being played by a lot of people, every day. Regardless of whether or not you like it, or anyone else here likes it, it's doing well. If Bungie had no idea what they were doing with Destiny I think it would be a little worse off than you think, no?
"Transformers 3 grossed over a $1 billion worldwide, so it must be good!"
 
If they consolidated the 500 different currencies down to a measly few then I might feel OK about putting some time in again.

EDIT: After I got sick of Destiny, I went back and tried out the most recent Titanfall DLC pack and it's night and day in terms of fun.
 

Jaxx

Banned
They're good at shooting mechanics. But outside of that they're pretty damned awful, as evidenced by Destiny. One of the absolute worst highly-anticipated games I've ever played and then subsequently sold a week later.
 

Hindle

Banned
The biggest mistake Bungie have made is they've focussed on delivering a service, instead of a really fun game.

It's why there's so much DLC in the pipeline, and the gameplay is aimed towards monotonous grindinginstead of fun great encounters.
 

Tubie

Member
Destiny is not an MMO, or a viable long term MP shooter. It's not good at PvE or PvP.

At some point you have to realize it's not worth playing anymore. For me the best part was the story missions/strikes and those all sucked.

If you keep playing it's either more grinding or raging in PvP.

Why would anyone subject themselves to this punishment?
 

Kuro

Member
I have never had such a bad experience with a multiplayer game I payed full price for except for maybe Modern Warfare 2
 

oatmeal

Banned
How are server issues?

About a week and a half ago was the last time I played and I couldn't stay in a match for more than a few minutes before getting kicked out (all the way to the title screen shit).
 

DJ_Lae

Member
The balance of power in Destiny's multiplayer has shifted from auto rifles to semi auto rifles as Scout Rifles now dominate the game.

This actually makes me want to try multiplayer for the first time since the game launched - hated it to begin with.

I use scout rifles almost all the time in PvE, and the patch notes didn't make the changes sound all that significant (slight critical nerf on assault rifles, 6% damage increase for scout rifles). I certainly didn't notice any real changes today while playing but maybe it manifests itself more in the crucible.
 
If 3 million people continue to play it for an average of three hours a day, like Bungie's PR supposedly says (numbers may be slightly off, heard 'em on the Bombcast), then yeah, I'd say Bungie does know what they're doing.
 

lem0n

Member
"Transformers 3 grossed over a $1 billion worldwide, so it must be good!"
It's not good because it sold well. It's good because it's fun. It will get more fun when they sort some big shit out. It's a good game under all the garbage.

Edit: it's all subjective so I won't bother any further, I know how Gaf feels about this game outside of the OT.
 
I don't think they do. I've completely moved on from the game and Bungie hasn't showed me a reason to come back yet or pay more money for the expansions. A damn shame, really.

EDIT: And the majority of my PS4/XB1 friends list have moved on from the game, too. That would probably be close to 200 people total.
 
Depends on your definition of "know what they're doing." Did they build a mechanically sound game, advertise the hell out of it, get pre-orders galore, such that they can claim success my just about every metric that counts to a business regardless of what they do from here on out, and as such, will do very little (ie, they implement small balance and loot changes that have s marginal effect at most)? Then yes. They clearly nailed that. And I'd expect that to be about all they do until they release paid DLC.

If you would consider s demonstration of "knowing what they're doing" to involve restructuring elements of the existing game to make it less grindy, less repetitive, more full of character and life, more content rich, or to make an existent storyline, then I'd say no, they don't know what they're doing, and I wouldn't trust them to make good on any of that.

I expect they feel their product is a great success and as a result, little will change in the game, and folks can expect much the same for quite a while. It's for you to decide if that's a good thing.
 

BigDug13

Member
It's not good because it sold well. It's good because it's fun. It will get more fun when they sort some big shit out. It's a good game under all the garbage.

Edit: it's all subjective so I won't bother any further, I know how Gaf feels about this game outside of the OT.

GAF isn't a single entity, and you make your arguments meaningless when you make sweeping generalizations about thousands of gamers.

You are a member of GAF. You say GAF hates this game. Therefore since this single-minded entity that you are a part of hates Destiny, that means you must hate Destiny.
 

ThisOne

Member
That video regarding Iron Banner is pretty damning. I never tried that mode but it doesn't look any different than normal Crucible. Shame for everyone that grinded up to a high level to play that mode and expect to dominate.
 
This actually makes me want to try multiplayer for the first time since the game launched - hated it to begin with.

I use scout rifles almost all the time in PvE, and the patch notes didn't make the changes sound all that significant (slight critical nerf on assault rifles, 6% damage increase for scout rifles). I certainly didn't notice any real changes today while playing but maybe it manifests itself more in the crucible.

on paper it sounds like a great change. ARs have been a problem for far too long and the gameplay deserved more depth. what i've played since the patch has simply traded one villain for another.
 

lem0n

Member
GAF isn't a single entity, and you make your arguments meaningless when you make sweeping generalizations about thousands of gamers.

You are a member of GAF. You say GAF hates this game. Therefore since this single-minded entity that you are a part of hates Destiny, that means you must hate Destiny.

Okay, okay. A large percentage of Gaf. Why do I even need to clarify that? I did make a generalization, I apologize, but I think most others would get what I'm saying. Sheesh.
 

Sojgat

Member
Depends on your definition of "know what they're doing." Did they build a mechanically sound game, advertise the hell out of it, get pre-orders galore, such that they can claim success my just about every metric that counts to a business regardless of what they do from here on out, and as such, will do very little (ie, they implement small balance and loot changes that have s marginal effect at most)? Then yes. They clearly nailed that. And I'd expect that to be about all they do until they release paid DLC.

If you would consider s demonstration of "knowing what they're doing" to involve restructuring elements of the existing game to make it less grindy, less repetitive, more full of character and life, more content rich, or to make an existent storyline, then I'd say no, they don't know what they're doing, and I wouldn't trust them to make good on any of that.

I expect they feel their product is a great success and as a result, little will change in the game, and folks can expect much the same for quite a while. It's for you to decide if that's a good thing.

This.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I can only shake my head, mouth agape in awe, at the sheer audacity that Bungie seems to posses in calling things like the Queen's Wrath and the Iron Banner "events." To even vaguely imply that such non-content were anything of note requires a special kind of arrogance and disdain for your player base.
 

Xevren

Member
Sure seems like they don't. Their communication about everything is even worse, having to read deej's role playing like posts that essentially say wait later sucks. Maybe I'm just spoiled after playing Marvel Heroes where the devs are pretty much the best and talk about things every day, plus events that aren't fucking terrible.

Gameplay is fun though, I'll give it that. Think I'm just gonna play some pc games until Dragon Age or something else comes out.
 

BigDug13

Member
Okay, okay. A large percentage of Gaf. Why do I even need to clarify that? I did make a generalization, I apologize, but I think most others would get what I'm saying. Sheesh.

It's still a generalization. Why have we blown through so many Destiny OT's if most members hate the game? Also, a "large percentage" is so incredibly far removed from "all of GAF outside OT hates Destiny". That definitely needs clarifying on a forum where many members make totally serious statements painting GAF as a single entity.

The reason it needs clarification is because many members make sweeping generalizations about the entire forum as a single entity, all the time. As you did. Not ALL members, or even a "large percentage" of members. Just "many".
 

malfcn

Member
They have too many ideas?
Too many ideas to mage anything right.

They forgot materials for upgrading.
Coins were for sale.
Queen shards.
Non events.
Story?
Etc.

Parts of the game are great. But the pieces don't make a whole. Yet I still play. But now that holidays and more games are coming..
 
That video regarding Iron Banner is pretty damning. I never tried that mode but it doesn't look any different than normal Crucible. Shame for everyone that grinded up to a high level to play that mode and expect to dominate.

The issue I take from it personally is that it nullifies the way gear and weapons are tiered currently. If my basic weapon is as good as a legendary one in crucible, but the legendary one is clearly better in PvE, then the stats between the two modes should be different. PvE and PvP weapons should be balanced separately. This way, weapons that may be overpowered in multiplayer aren't nerfed to hell and back when you take them into the PvE portions of the game, which we are seeing with the Mythoclast. It was already lacking on ammo in the PvE side, but now it's both useless there and useless in PvP. Changes like this cripple the longevity of the game by invalidating the challenges required to earn these items.
 

malfcn

Member
On the topic of the Vex gun..
If you have to nerf a gun 30-40% and it takes a month.

You done fucked it up. /Joe
 

lem0n

Member
It's still a generalization. Why have we blown through so many Destiny OT's if most members hate the game? Also, a "large percentage" is so incredibly far removed from "all of GAF outside OT hates Destiny". That definitely needs clarifying on a forum where many members make totally serious statements painting GAF as a single entity.

The reason it needs clarification is because many members make sweeping generalizations about the entire forum as a single entity, all the time. As you did. Not ALL members, or even a "large percentage" of members. Just "many".

Thank you for clarifying the situation for everyone else, then!
 
I was so hyped for destiny, I thought it was going to be my next 'crack' game, but damn if it isn't the biggest, most overhyped piece of shit i've ever expereinced in all gaming. And this coming from someone who went around convincing all my mates to buy the original Xbox because of how awesome Halo was (and still is).

Sure the gameplay is solid and graphics excellent but I have never seen a game so skimpy on content especially considering the budget. The biggest problem seems to b the content seems to have been deliberately cut out...either that or all the pre-release claims are utter bullshit.

I am not going to spend another cent or hour playing Destiny (btw i'm level 25 with 3 exotics so i'm no noob but I have only played about 15 hours total so I just got lucky with drops).

A real sad day for gaming imo when this crap can make over 300 million on launch day but I guess I was part of the problem because I also bought it day one. Activision are now on my Ubi and EA no buy list! What a crock!!
 
They have no idea what they are doing in terms of balance and fun for players. They have progressively decreased in quality each game they make. The bigger the budget, the more time they have, the less quality content. It makes no sense.

And millions are still eating it up because Bungie and gambling.
 

Omega

Banned
Not sure why this is surprising, each Halo took about 5 steps back.

Bungie likes to make the worst game possible while living off their name from their one great game from 13 years ago. They know exactly what they're doing
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
The way they totally bungled the Queen event alone tells me they are making this shit up as they go.
 

BigDug13

Member
I'd like to think they did lots of research into the loot genre games to see what didn't work and what did work. But I'm not so sure that's the case. It doesn't seem like they really understand how to do it correctly. Otherwise their game would have looked more like Diablo 3 after AH removal and not like Diablo 3 pre-AH removal.
 

Apathy

Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bungie was given too much freedom to do things. Destiny reeks of a game where no one ever stood up and complained at all in any meeting (and if I can popularize the phrase "Destiny is a Shooter designed by a committee" that would be great).

Games are not made in a vacuum, they have to be able to see what others before them have done, and their pitfalls, but Bungie stubbornly proceeded to do the same mistakes. I always thought MS was being kinda heavy handed not letting Bungie work on anything except for the Halo IP, but after a month of Destiny, I gotta say maybe MS was onto something. Bungie as a studio seems to work better when given restrictions rather than letting them go all willy nilly with ideas.

In the short run, they really have tarnished their own name with the mark of horrible writing and continued belief that they don't know how to balance their own games. In the long run, I know they have to have soured a lot of people on the "Destiny" brand.
 
They know what they are doing, they made one of the best games of the year and now they just need to release more content for it.

I know there is more words in this op then normal but you still should have read it. It's a level headed analysis that proves bungle is in way over their heads and have zero clue how to proceed with a clear vision.

Nerf and ignore complaints about lack of socialization in their social shooter is the current order of the day.
 
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