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[DevilFox]

Maturity: it seems that this term has a lot of interpretations when it comes to games.
I wonder what's GAF general idea about it since I often read that Nintendo's games aren't mature because they look "cartoonish" and similar things or that The Last of Us isn't mature because movies do its job better, a statement that always leave me very perplexed.
At the same time I read sometimes that COD or even The Walking Dead are mature games, two statements that leave me even more perplexed.

We all know that videogame is the most complex and richest medium since it blends writing and cinema with its unique feauture, gameplay, and it's not rare to see comparisons with works that belong to other media, it's natural.. but is it fair? What are the requirements for a game, such a complex product, to be defined mature?

Some examples:

• M rated games: violence and gore content is enough to me to define it mature.
• A great story: Legacy of Kain is an example of mature game to me.
• Themes covered or mentioned: MGS is mature, now more than ever with Ground Zeroes and that
  Spoiler

  rape thing
  .
• Storytelling technique: a good story is almost useless if you don't know how to tell it in a game and cutscenes aren't the solution. Therefore MGS sucks and mature games to me are The Last of Us, System Shock, Half Life etc.
• A realistic graphic style / graphical fidelity: there's no way that a random Mario can be mature to my eyes.
• Top notch gameplay: it's videogames we're talking about, right? Gameplay is everything, Vanquish and Bayonetta are mature games even if the story sucks.
• Complex, huge games with tons of feautures: Star Citizen is a mature game.

It can be a mix of them or something else.

I'd like to read your opinions and mention games that you consider mature.
I prefer to give my opinion later but it has a lot to do with storytelling.

 

[Moral Panic]

Doesn't exist. At least I can't think of any game that I would call mature. Maybe a VN or something?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Somethin like sesame street. Its not rated mature but mature people made it.

 

[meptrep]

 

[ComputerMKII]

Games that deal with themes I (or people like me) can relate to, instead of fighting demons for the sake of fighting demons. Games that will make me re-evaluate my own life.

Examples: Heavy Rain, Catherine, The Walking Dead, Beyond: Two Souls, Katawa Shoujo

 

[SliceSabre]

I believe there are a lot of games that have mature and deep moments. But like the entire package? No I can't think of a single one.

I don't think this is a bad thing mind you.

 

[John Kowalski]

Has content fitting for interpretation by adults, whether explicit or implicit.

 

[brandonh83]

A game that isn't trying to be mature is a mature game to me.

 

[Aiustis]

I don't think it exist.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Games that some people briefly believed were inherently better than others from 2006 to 2012 because of grey and brown colors, edgy storytelling, and lifeless everything.

 

[HalfwayOrb]

Silent Hill 2 is one of those mature games.

 

[GarciaHotspur]

Example of Games i consider mature : NieR and Catherine.

 

[Silky]

My 'college' friends find games like Borderlands, The Walking Dead, Saints Row, and Halo as 'kiddy games'. Their definition of mature are games with a limited color palette and 'great graphics'.

Otherwise, mature games to me are essentially usually games like Quantic Dream titles, CING games, and probably ARMA

 

[UberTag]

Actual mature games do exist (i.e. Catherine). They're just few and far between.

 

[Moral Panic]

We all know that videogame is the most complex and richest medium since it blends writing and cinema with its unique feauture, gameplay, and it's not rare to see comparisons with works that belong to other media, it's natural.. but is it fair? What are the requirements for a game, such a complex product, to be defined mature?

I think it's the gameplay that kiils it. When I think of something being "mature" I usually think of something that requires an adult mind to comprehend and reason with. I don't think a game can truly be mature when it is trapped within the need to be "fun" or "enjoyable". Yes, mature media deals with difficult themes like MGS does but its the way you deal with it that counts. MGS's ridiculously over the top, cartoony and tropy characters and methods at tackling the themes betray the fact that it is aimed at teens and isn't a "mature" work.

 

[JordanN]

This. If a game wasn't mature, it wouldn't need the M rating.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

For me it's a game that doesn't come across as trite, insult the player's intelligence, or try way too hard to be "edgy" or "badass."

Games with sex, gore, violence, etc as far I'm concerned are more accurately labeled as "explicit" as opposed to "mature." But, that doesn't inherently make them bad or stupid.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Example of Games i consider mature : NieR and Catherine.

I wish the studio that made Catherine made another game of the same vein. Not a sequel or anything too closely related to it, but a game where you explore real-life themes and take decisions instead of fighting stuff.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

All the M rating means is the game has more tits, violence, and/or profanity than ESRB mavens think is acceptable for minors

Talking about actual maturity and I agree we have yet to see a complete package.

 

[tcrunch]

I don't think I've ever had a game leave a life-changing impression on me or make me think really hard like books or even movies have, so I don't think there are any mature games.

Content-wise this

 

[Ein Bear]

There's no such thing as a 'mature' game. The whole point of being mature is being able to enjoy and appreciate things for what they are, regardless of if it's Kirby or God of War.

 

[SDCowboy]

To me, the pinnacle of mature games, in every sense of the word, is TLOU.

 

[gngf123]

Themes and storytelling methods that kids aren't known for being all that interested in. Your average M rated first person shooter might have an M rating attached to it, but I consider them explicit, not mature.

There are very, very few actually mature games. Maybe CiNG's stuff?

 

[Eggbok]

I was going to say penis, but then I remembered there were pictures in my health book at school.

 

[UberTag]

This. If a game wasn't mature, it wouldn't need the M rating.

So what you're saying is that this...

... is a "mature" game? It was marketed as "a booze-chugging, stripper-ogling, baddie-blasting good time". Sounds more like an immature game to me.

 

[SDCowboy]

There's no such thing as a 'mature' game. The whole point of being mature is being able to enjoy and appreciate things for what they are, regardless of if it's Kirby or God of War.

What? That would be the player being mature. Not the game.

 

[Falxix]

I might have held higher standards in the past, but I'd go with any game where I'm treated like an adult. That is, I'm left to my own devices for understanding how everything works out, and I'm not pushed around to do exactly what the game tells me to.

A game can have a totally mature storyline but still treat me like an idiot. It needs to give me the option to sort of think critically; whether it's reading between the lines of the narrative to figure out a secret (quick imperfect example is one of the solutions for the Atchisons in Wasteland 2), or learning some new way of handling my character.

But that's just me.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

I tend to consider moral grey areas a sign of a mature work. Children love gore, violence etc (as do we all) but tend to like their heroes to be heroes and their villains to be clearly bad. Games where you either heavily sympathize with the villain or don't agree 100% with the actions of the protagonist, or are yourself asked to make morally compromising decisions.

Of course this also depends heavily on the skill of the storytellers, it can easily come off as forced and tack.

So subtly too really.

 

[Thrax]

The Witcher series with it's grey moral choices is mature/adult.

Walking Dead and The Wolf Among Us.

 

[rjc571]

Games that immature gamers don't want to play.

 

[Tellaerin]

Since the first appearance of the M rating, it's always been pretty clear that "mature" with respect to videogames just means "not suitable for children", for whatever reason. Much like R-rated movies, the content is intended "for mature (read: adult) audiences", and can include graphic depictions of violence, sexual themes, etc.

I always thought it was bizarre how some people started conflating "mature" as used in game ratings with "mature" in the sense of "dealing with sophisticated and nuanced themes". Given how the people who do this usually use it as an excuse to point fingers and say, "You call that 'mature'?! Hah!", I'm inclined to think that it's not just confusion at work. They know that's not the intention when a game's slapped with the "mature" label, but it's ammunition for them to use when taking potshots at games with sexual or violent content.

 

[DevilFox]

Aren't you mistaking "mature" with "for adult audience" ?
Is Manhunt a mature game? Or it's just for adult, due to its content?

 

[TedNindo]

A game that requires the player to have the maturity to appreciate its themes and complexities.

Mature rated games can be among the most immature though.

 

[jblank83]

A game that requires the player to have the maturity to appreciate its themes and complexities.

Something like that, yeah

 

[eXistor]

Games that respect the intelligence of the player.

 

[Cavalier]

I've been thinking about this as well recently. What actually defines a mature game?

Does the game always have to be so dark, violent and depressing in order to be a mature game? (e.g. Last of Us)
Or does it have to force players through situations that only mature audience would understand? (e.g. Catherine)
Or does it have high difficulty curve that only older players would see it as challenging and stick to the game long enough to finish it?

I came to a conclusion that there is no such a thing as a "mature" game. Real mature people live out their lives doing things outside rather than living in fantasies playing videogames. (shooting competition, joining the military, professional sports, managing team of workers, etc...) The only reason why we have "Mature" rating for games is to guide parents what kids should or shouldn't play at such a young age.

 

[pinkurocket]

Any game that has a level of quality, challenge and attention to detail that be appreciated by an adult.

 

[Damerman]

witcher 2

 

[RibMan]

Has content fitting for interpretation by adults, whether explicit or implicit.

Precisely.

Nintendo games tend to be categorized as 'kiddy' and immature for all the wrong reasons. People typically focus on the art style and sound design of Nintendo games, and use those two factors as the basis for calling their titles 'kiddy'. We're all guilty of judging a book by its cover. Once we 'open' Nintendo's book, we realize that it's the story, characters, and gameplay design that make their games more fitting for a younger audience than an older audience.

At the end of it all, it comes down to the markets that these platforms are intended for. Nintendo deliberately avoids creating games that are more suitable for adults than children. Microsoft deliberately avoids creating games that are more suitable for children than adults. Sony sits in the middle - they invest in a library of titles that can be enjoyed by both adults and children. They've had their share of flops (e.g. PlayStation Move Heroes, EyePet, Fat Princess) and their share of successes (e.g. LittleBigPlanet, The Playroom, Singstar, Buzz, Sly Cooper etc.).

 

[JordanN]

So what you're saying is that this...

... is a "mature" game? It was marketed as "a booze-chugging, stripper-ogling, baddie-blasting good time". Sounds more like an immature game to me.

It couldn't have been marketed as E without completely changing it.

 

[Tertullian]

Games that don't trigger discussions of whether or not they're mature.

 

[Asbear]

Games that are intellectually mature for the lack of a better way to put it. Gritty art design or superficial subjects of real life doesn't necessarily make games more mature than cartoony looking games. An odd example would be the Witcher. On one hand I find its world building its plots and characters to be mature in the way they're written, but the visual representation of sex in the games border on being very immature since they're on the brink of being soft-core porn. I shit you not.

A more consistent one though IMO, is The Legend of Zelda. If you look at the difference between The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, on first glance most would take TP for the more "mature" game because superficially it looks so. In my opinion though, Wind Waker is more mature in the sense that its story is better handled and it feels more honest somehow in its style than TP because Zelda always has a lot of quirky and eccentric characters and sometimes outright slapstick humor or just not-so mature characters by design and to me that goes for both TP and Wind Waker but because Wind Waker also looks cartoony it seems more consistent with the writing and animation style.

So I guess in a sense, maturity in games also comes down to the game's honesty towards its subject matter

 

[mstevens]

I don't know about mature games, but mature gamers are people who play whatever is fun to them without worrying about if it's cool or whatever. There will never be a day when I'm against firing up some Mario.

 

[timetokill]

Gratuitous sex, violence, etc. is incredibly immature. There's a place for that kind of juvenile fun, and I'm not saying I don't enjoy it, I'm just saying it's not particularly mature. I'd say something that takes its subject matter seriously, but also instills that seriousness into its audience. Note that this doesn't mean it can't have humor in it.

I'd say that we have very few mature games, and those that are mature are generally found in the indie space.

In other words, if people want to cheer when a guy takes a shotgun blast to the face, your game is not mature. It doesn't matter how "gritty" it is or how many curse words the characters say.


By this metric, mature: Gone Home, Papers Please
Immature: The Last of Us, God of War, GTA

 

[Trouble]

http://games.aarp.org

 

[Dog Problems]

My idea of a mature game is something that I connect to on an emotional level. A game that touches on real life situations or problems that aren't present in a lot of games. Dealing with the discovery of homosexuality and how a character deals with it like in Gone Home, dealing with debt/foreclosure/socialism like in The Sea Will Claim Everything, dealing with alcoholism like in Papo & Yo. I might not be able to relate to these problems on a personal level but the way that they convey them allows me to really connect with what is going and see things from a perspective I might not have had before.

 

[NotLiquid]

"Maturity" in games for me is always icky because most of the time the label is simply there because it just revels in obscene themes that are completely low brow and are relatively bad influences for kids. Even though games like Mortal Kombat and Grand Theft Auto get slapped with the M label, most of what's in games like those are probably going to appeal far more for a teenage audience because many find that kind of relentless action to be "cool", while I imagine most adults are just going to be desensitized to what those games actually do, and probably won't find much meaning in them. I'd say they're closer to "immature" than actually tackling mature elements. Really, stuff you find in those games would probably be seen awesome to you back then but when you finally grow up and are able to consume that kind of media on a regular basis you just stop caring.

Something like Catherine is more of a legitimately "mature" game. It doesn't have nearly as much violence in it as a lot of other games (well, despite the gross monsters), but it dabbles in themes of sexuality, adultery, commitment and several disturbing metaphors. It's a game that's probably a lot more prone to speak to a mature audience where these themes are of potential relevance in their every day life. It's not really a game for younger audiences because its explicit in its handling of consequence and is generally not a lot which ought to be of concern to them, or something they might not necessarily understand at that particular point in life.

That said, even kids games can speak to a level of maturity. Earthbound is a kids game with many elements that kids would probably dream up, yet it's infinitely more mature in its handling and progression than most games with the "Mature" label out there. So hell, its possible to extend it and make a case that there are just as many mature kids games out there as there are mature adult-oriented games.

Really, the label itself just speaks about what audience is best suited to handle what's presented, but at this point I think most adult audiences versed in the media are well informed enough to consider that label a formality. At that point it's possible to stretch the definitions of maturity further in terms of the context of the game.

 

[Basketball]

.

 

[Winterfang]

Adult characters and situations, gore, bare breasts.

 

[Carcetti]

For me there's two types.

First one is the rare one, the actually mature game with adult themes that are handled in non-ridiculous manner.

The second one is the one that wants to be called mature but is more like 'teh m4tur3' with flying guts, dismemberment, silly quicktime sex scenes etc. God of War series is a good example of this. It's something you'd imagine a 12 year old would describe as mature.