R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
People just generally like to know where their money goes with these things
Especially with amount of high profile kickstarters turning into nothing after wildly successful initial crowdfunding campaigns.
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Fighting Games Weekly | Oct 27-Nov 2 | A Lot Of Shit Went Down
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
People just generally like to know where their money goes with these things
Especially with amount of high profile kickstarters turning into nothing after wildly successful initial crowdfunding campaigns.
I honestly feel that comes with the territory. With a kickstarter you aren't buying a product, you are investing in a product to eventually be a product. Sometimes investments go bad.
Objectively these are the biggest missteps Capcom has made in the past generation:
*Design decisions used for RE6 resulting in the subsequent decline for the series.
*DmC being made resulting in the subsequent decline for the series. Easily one of their biggest mistakes in the past generation as it caused one of their stable series to become unstable.
*Refusal to port games to other systems (ie. Dragon's Dogma on PC).
*Misstep with Lost Planet 2 but their misstep with outsourcing LP3 was a much bigger error.
*Making the new mainline BoF game into an iOS game.
*Poor decision making when it came to signing the license for the Marvel characters (game still sold decently well but the growth of the game was severely stunted past 2012).
*Poor design choices approved for SFxT resulting in the game dying out very early and met with mediocre sales
*Poor design and lack of effort on Bionic Commando resulted in the series going back to being dead like it was.
*Cancelling MML3. I would actually consider this the least of their missteps because they probably ended up saving a lot of money by cancelling it as opposed to completing it.
Pretty much all of these were supported by the constant downgrading of sales projection for these games. Capcom has officially stated that there has been a "decline in quality due to excessive outsourcing" is pretty damning coming from themselves.
In 2013, Capcom HALVED their profit estimation from £43.4 million to £19.4 million due to "revised" sales of DmC and RE6. This year resulted in Capcom revising the game's in development and cancelled a number of announced titles.
You can read about it all of that here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...sourcing-has-resulted-in-a-decline-in-quality
Early 2014 looked worse than early 2013 although that is mostly because they didn't release any major titles in that time.. at least that's the reason that Capcom gave to appease the stock holders. It's not just early 2014 either, their Q2 is shit compared to last year and IMO 2013 was one of Capcom's worst years.
Guess what folks... Capcom ain't got DIDDLY SQUAT to release in early 2015 so you already know the financial report for early 2015 isn't going to look good either. Capcom doesn't have many games in the pipeline yet so for the foreseeable future... they aren't going to be making big money.
So if they haven't done well in 2013, haven't done well in 2014 and they most definitely are not going to do well in 2015.... how can anyone interpret this as Capcom being in a healthy state? In business if you aren't growing then you are fucking up and Capcom is most definitely fucking up.
In reality the only two game series Capcom has done good by are Street Fighter and Monster Hunter. These two along with RE are Capcom's only solid money makers. Capcom has listed Lost Planet and Devil May Cry among their top 5 franchises but the future of these two series is uncertain.
I am no expert at this stuff, I don't have a business degree... but all of this stuff is OBVIOUS to any layman.
Come at me Enzo!
*Design decisions used for RE6 resulting in the subsequent decline for the series.
*DmC being made resulting in the subsequent decline for the series. Easily one of their biggest mistakes in the past generation as it caused one of their stable series to become unstable.
*Refusal to port games to other systems (ie. Dragon's Dogma on PC).
*Misstep with Lost Planet 2 but their misstep with outsourcing LP3 was a much bigger error.
*Making the new mainline BoF game into an iOS game.
*Poor decision making when it came to signing the license for the Marvel characters (game still sold decently well but the growth of the game was severely stunted past 2012).
*Poor design choices approved for SFxT resulting in the game dying out very early and met with mediocre sales
*Poor design and lack of effort on Bionic Commando resulted in the series going back to being dead like it was.
*Cancelling MML3. I would actually consider this the least of their missteps because they probably ended up saving a lot of money by cancelling it as opposed to completing it.
Pretty much all of these were supported by the constant downgrading of sales projection for these games. Capcom has officially stated that there has been a "decline in quality due to excessive outsourcing" is pretty damning coming from themselves.
In 2013, Capcom HALVED their profit estimation from £43.4 million to £19.4 million due to "revised" sales of DmC and RE6. This year resulted in Capcom revising the game's in development and cancelled a number of announced titles.
You can read about it all of that here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...sourcing-has-resulted-in-a-decline-in-quality
Early 2014 looked worse than early 2013 although that is mostly because they didn't release any major titles in that time.. at least that's the reason that Capcom gave to appease the stock holders. It's not just early 2014 either, their Q2 is shit compared to last year and IMO 2013 was one of Capcom's worst years.
Guess what folks... Capcom ain't got DIDDLY SQUAT to release in early 2015 so you already know the financial report for early 2015 isn't going to look good either. Capcom doesn't have many games in the pipeline yet so for the foreseeable future... they aren't going to be making big money.
So if they haven't done well in 2013, haven't done well in 2014 and they most definitely are not going to do well in 2015.... how can anyone interpret this as Capcom being in a healthy state? In business if you aren't growing then you are fucking up and Capcom is most definitely fucking up.
In reality the only two game series Capcom has done good by are Street Fighter and Monster Hunter. These two along with RE are Capcom's only solid money makers. Capcom has listed Lost Planet and Devil May Cry among their top 5 franchises but the future of these two series is uncertain.
I am no expert at this stuff, I don't have a business degree... but all of this stuff is OBVIOUS to any layman.
Come at me Enzo!
I think we should wash the word "invest" out of talking about Kickstarter, because that's not what's happening. "Donate," much better, but not perfect since you want the "reward."
Fully Committed Way In Advance Pre-Order with Risk of Non-Delivery is best but that's a lot of words.
I've backed several projects. I don't expect to back any video game projects again, though. Specially not for actual companies who have managed to make actual products without asking customers for an unsecured, zero interest loan. I might back Skullgirls again, I dunno. I am generally okay with how that worked out and it's just a group of folks making a passion project and hoping for more.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
NRS will be streaming MKX gameplay next Wednesay at 3 PM central.
BTW is there a thread discussing this news about Capcom's latest fiscal earnings?
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/10/29/7047497.aspx
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/10/29/7047497.aspx
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah with an investment you have a stake in the product. Kickstarter at best gives you a copy of the game you probably overpaid for. You're paying for a product, not investing in the future success of it.
I think your assumptions about what Capcom might have been able to negotiate in a Marvel license are overly optimistic.
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Seriously. Way more money goes into projects that fail that we often don't even hear about.
A game gets canceled after 1-2 years of development, before it's announced. How much do you think that game costs? And it happens all the time.
With Kickstarter, you're taking on the risk that the publisher would normally take. You put money up, but you don't have a guarantee that you'll get a game out of it.
I've been backing tons of projects since Broken Age. I stopped last year with Mighty No. 9 cause ain't nobody got dime for that, but the vast majority of the projects I've backed have been successful and ended up launching. They were all late, but they launched.
The only failures have been Clang and Super Retro Squad.
Ya: (see: Austrian devotees.)Nor economics degrees
SolarKnight
Member
Eh, who knows how that would've ended had it not been cancelled, but at the very least they factually just threw away money with the prototype for no reason at all. Say what you want about how it would've just bombed at that time or something, but even sales exclusively from only the most hardcore MML fans is still a better financial result than cancelling something that was already finished (and therefore had already cost something) and not release it for no reason at all.
Seriously, what happened with the prototype just makes absolutely no sense to me
Gazillion entertainment was able to sign a license contract with Marvel for 10 years to allow them to do constant updates AND the contract can be renewed.
This was done AFTER Capcom did their signing which tells me that the guy at Gazillion had more foresight to plan this shit out.
Now you can't tell me that Gazillion entertainment is so rich they made Marvel an offer they couldn't refuse. This is a difference in decision making.
MonHun is going iOS/Android. I'm only half joking. F2P consumables for daaaaaaaaaaays.
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Dahbomb: what are the economics of the Gazillion/Disney deal? (You're thinking "Gazillion paid $X for this license," I'm thinking "Disney likely takes the lion's share of profits and is taking almost all of the promotional value b/c there's no other IP.")
Slamtastic
Member
On their own twitch channel?
I don't agree, you definitely aren't buying a product when you donate to a kickstarter campaign. And I rather not go down a semantic argument over what you're doing when you donate to one but you definitely aren't buying anything. You are funding something so it can eventually be made. Like donating to a politician's political campaign. They may not even get elected but you funding it none the less out of good will on your part and because you believed in their platform being fully aware of that. If they don't get elected you aren't entitled to your money back
CountBlack
Member
Capcom also lost like 2 or 3 Deejay players with Ultra
They on a tight rope.
They on a tight rope.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Yes. Answering questions too.
So for anyone wanting to see more gameplay next week is the chance.
They are never going to reveal the economics of a deal like that.
The following are the facts that we know about the deal:
*10 year contract to make any number of MMORPGs in the Marvel universe.
*Gazillion entertainment is not a big company, it's much smaller than Capcom.
Put two and two together then you know that Capcom got greedy on their negotiations and didn't have the foresight for this thing.
Now how did Gazillion get a contract like that and Capcom didn't? Well you tell me, I am all ears.
Even if Marvel got a lion share of the profit, over time MVC would've been a huge entity with constant updates and content addition like Marvel Heroes especially now with Marvel studios so huge (when UMVC3 came out Avengers hadn't even been released yet). Game would've seriously given SF4 a run for its money. And remember that MvC is still half a Capcom roster game.
The following are the facts that we know about the deal:
*10 year contract to make any number of MMORPGs in the Marvel universe.
*Gazillion entertainment is not a big company, it's much smaller than Capcom.
Put two and two together then you know that Capcom got greedy on their negotiations and didn't have the foresight for this thing.
Now how did Gazillion get a contract like that and Capcom didn't? Well you tell me, I am all ears.
Even if Marvel got a lion share of the profit, over time MVC would've been a huge entity with constant updates and content addition like Marvel Heroes especially now with Marvel studios so huge (when UMVC3 came out Avengers hadn't even been released yet). Game would've seriously given SF4 a run for its money. And remember that MvC is still half a Capcom roster game.
CountBlack
Member
They didn't lose you tho so they aight
I agree that MvC3/UMvC3 was a big failure from both companies to secure a long running support line that would've brought in a lot of financial benefits to both sides. We still got a fun game out of it, but the fans, Capcom and Marvel could've gotten so much more.
Easy example is Capcom not securing a PC release of UMvC3 when drawing up the publishing contract.
Easy example is Capcom not securing a PC release of UMvC3 when drawing up the publishing contract.
Triple Da G.O.D!
Member
And they would have to bother with Square Enix who probably doesn't even give a shit or knows they even own that property because they own Taito and somebody gets cut a NESiCA check every blue moon.
I wonder how money does both Chaos Breaker & Dark Awake even make on NESiCA anyway?
If whomever did that Dark Awake port so long ago couldn't be bothered to release it outside of Japan there had to be a reason. If Team GFB could get on the case then working on that port's netcode & adding the system option of 1 Fighter/3 Items would be all they'd actually need to do to make it competent for what most expect in a fighting game.
I'd take Psychic Force 2012 NESiCA over Chaos Breaker/Dark Awake if there was a Taito game that had to be ported but that's just my preference on it.
CountBlack
Member
MiniBossBattle
Member
PC UMvC3 would have been glorious.
Burned by the grill?
I should've left it unedited.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Soul Power
irfaanator
Banned
the belt
SloaneRisette
Member
It's more likely they didn't even have the room to be greedy.
call_kotaku
Member
You're assuming that if Capcom got a better licensing deal with Marvel they wouldn't have just made Marvel X Tekken and then promote it with a PR disaster of a reality show.
I don't know what makes you trust Capcom with developing a sensible system for content updates or properly leveraging the strengths of a well-known brand.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Backseat CEO
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I still want a Ys fighting game made by Arc Sys
The ripple.
Karsticles
Member
Please, put Dahbomb in the front seat of Capcom.
The mods would have made me cry. Hell, even adding new characters ala PM? Everyone would have finally had their wishlist.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
My first glass of chocolate milk in almost 2 1/2 months... Sooo good
Thomasorus
Member
Well Capcom is having problems because of internal wars. Mostly the son of former Capcom CEO (he made Monster Hunter) made all the bad decisions these past years like outsourcing but it's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem was that he put people in charge of games and that was a mistake. Projects were killed by bad management and one of the guys that did the most shit art Capcom these past 10 years is Inafune. Inafune is such a fraud nobody thinks he is.
Well that is true although at bare minimum they could've put out something equivalent to USF4.
In any case MVC is the least of their problems now. It's more important for them to produce games for IPs they already own.
Dream Match's weekly stream is on: http://www.twitch.tv/dm_channel_1
KBR playing other local Chilean players Not anymore nvm. Marvel still on though for those interested
Also, LUL uploaded a 60fps video of last night's WNF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwwyTTcElog
Also, LUL uploaded a 60fps video of last night's WNF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwwyTTcElog
You mean Ryozo Tsujimoto?
Thomasorus
Member
Yes that's him if I remember correctly. Maybe I'm mistalking and that's not him that nominated some producers, I don't remember all this very well.