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[//ARCANUM]

But really though, y'all are just pissed that you missed out on this. If you were standing in line at walmart behind a guy who was getting this price matched and they had another PS4 and the employee was ready to sell it to you at the same price, you're telling me you would say "no sir, that is wrong! i never! broo-ha-ha!"

edit - "broo-ha-ha" is optional, YMMV.

 

[SykoTech]

Should have put some fine print on that price matching clause.

Sorta their own fault, but I can't say I'd ever do such a thing myself. Probably wouldn't even be able to look at the cashier with a straight face. Some things are just too sleazy.

 

[prag16]

I don't see why people are demonizing savvy consumers taking advantage of a loophole in the system rather than being outraged that Walmart pays their employees so little.

I agree, They should be upset that employee's are punished for this, but they should be placing their blame on walmart, not on people who found a great deal.

But really though, y'all are just pissed that you missed out on this.

We're going in circles now and getting nowhere.. I hope this gets locked soon.

 

[Xeroblade]

LOL this thread.

 

[Nafai1123]

The hundreds of customers who knowingly took advantage.

Just because hundreds of people took advantage of a situation doesn't make the situation any less shitty on their part, especially given that this is a falsified price. At best it's morally and ethically reprehensible, and at worst it's outright fraudulent.

Just because Walmart's policy is beneficial to the customer doesn't mean we should blame them when people use fraudulent listings to get a lower price than they could ever get normally.

It's not okay to dick over Walmart just because Walmart is a "megacorp".



The shitty behavior is only dicking over employees minimally, so it's okay?

Lots of stuff like this, over the course of a year, can have a huge impact on bonuses. When I was working retail, my bonuses from one year to the next shifted nearly $400.

Choosing NOT to shop at Walmart also dicks over employees. Is that morally reprehensible as well? Should we all start supporting the company because of their employees?

Maybe I should start overpaying when I buy a new car because it eats into a salesman's commission. I mean he's just trying to get by and make a living like everyone else, right? Maybe I should sign up for whatever those telemarketers are selling me, because they might lose their job if they don't make their quota.

Or, more appropriate to the argument, maybe I should skip the Black Friday deals at retailers because it will increase the profits of that store and thus increase the bonuses of the people that work there. I mean that's the morally ethical thing to do right?

 

[BlastProcessing]

You're right that it works better on a macro level but under the assumption that the clerk's ignorance goes unpunished: how is happiness in the population not increased through the sale of a prized commodity to a buyer that derives joy from it?

First I think it's a pretty large assumption that the clerk's actions will go unnoticed. Someone along the chain of managers (from department to store to region and so on) Is going to notice a register override for $320. And then blame is going to be kicked as far down the chain of command as it can. Someone in this thread already stated that a memo about this is already being distributed through Wal-Mart.

But setting that aside, the missing value has to be absorbed somewhere. Someone, somewhere will feel the financial effects of this action. It will probably be spread across multiple people. From a Utilitarian perspective, something like a PS4 is a luxury good. It's value can only be extracted once lower level needs are met. A starving family would much rather have $400 worth of food for instance.

If the people negatively affected by the PS4 sale lose some level of access to more primary needs (food, shelter, and the like) so that you can have a more enjoyable leisure time, then the act does not serve the greater good. Also because this act is part of a much larger "Taking advantage of a Corporation is justifiable" sentiment, the way that this act would encourage future similar acts must be taken into account.

And, if you already have a console, say a 360 or a PS3, then all you are gaining is a slight increase in good. The delta between your enjoyment of what you have and what you would gain.

All of this speculation involves really small amounts of something that is almost impossible to quantify to begin with, but that's par for the course in discussions about Utilitarianism.

Honestly, the whole thing is a messy, murky exercise. Which is why my default assumption is that people are naturally selfish and will attempt to justify their actions. The concept of The Greater Good is a great philosophical thicket to hide in.

 

[Marcel]

I don't shop at Walmart period so I guess I am also the reason that Johnny Walmart Employee's kids will be cold and hungry on Christmas or whatever other bullshit people are using as ridiculous, loaded examples.

 

[NJDEN]

Ethically I'm against this... but this couldn't have happened to a better company.

 

[TomShoe]

Choosing NOT to shop at Walmart also dicks over employees. Is that morally reprehensible as well? Should we all start supporting the company because of their employees?

Maybe I should start overpaying when I buy a new car because it eats into a salesman's commission. I mean he's just trying to get by and make a living like everyone else, right? Maybe I should sign up for whatever those telemarketers are selling me, because they might lose their job if they don't make their quota.

Or, more appropriate to the argument, maybe I should skip the Black Friday deals at retailers because it will increase the profits of that store and thus increase the bonuses of the people that work there. I mean that's the morally ethical thing to do right?

Supporting a company doesn't mean we're supporting the employees. They're still going to get paid minimum wage regardless. It's been that way for years.

 

[dragonzdogma]

I think it might work this way:

say that 1000 ps4 were sold for 59.99 or whatever,
all Walmart will do, is raise the price for all bread sticks across the country by one cent
and gain their money back no?

-__-;

 

[Rebel Leader]

I think it might work this way:

say that 1000 ps4 were sold for 59.99 or whatever,
all Walmart will do, is raise the price for all bread sticks across the country by one cent
and gain their money back no?

-__-;

Or take that money from their low end employees

 

[Nafai1123]

Supporting a company doesn't mean we're supporting the employees. They're still going to get paid minimum wage regardless. It's been that way for years.

Huh? If enough people don't support a company, you can damn well bet it's shutting down or laying people off.

 

[SolidSnakesMyStepDad]

Shoplifters exist on a higher moral plane than people who do this

Dude c'mon.

 

[Zaku]

But really though, y'all are just pissed that you missed out on this. If you were standing in line at walmart behind a guy who was getting this price matched and they had another PS4 and the employee was ready to sell it to you at the same price, you're telling me you would say "no sir, that is wrong! i never! broo-ha-ha!"

edit - "broo-ha-ha" is optional, YMMV.

I wouldn't. I also check the bills when I get my change to make sure the cashier didn't give me too much back.

It's a lot easier to do when you remember that fucking over a big corporation isn't fucking over the big corporation, it's fucking over the potentially ignorant employee right in front of you.

I don't shop at Walmart period so I guess I am also the reason that Johnny Walmart Employee's kids will be cold and hungry on Christmas or whatever other bullshit people are using as ridiculous, loaded examples.

There's a difference between shopping elsewhere and purposefully defrauding a company's price-match policy using a fraudulent listing on Amazon. Imagine that!

Snip

All your examples are cases where either you and the salesman are entering a good-faith agreement or you're exercising basic consumer rights.

That's a huge difference from engaging in borderline fraud.

But hey, let's pretend purposefully scamming someone isn't a bad thing! That's cool too!

I've said it before in this thread, I'll say it again: If it's shitty behavior at a mom'n'pop local business, it's shitty behavior at Walmart.

 

[Inertia Creeps]

Shoplifters exist on a higher moral plane than people who do this

 

[SolidSnakesMyStepDad]

Or take that money from their low end employees

You can't pay lower than minimum wage.

 

[Marcel]

Dude c'mon.

You're really expecting something reasonable here? I've seen buying used games called "legalized piracy".

 

[Naminator]

Congratulations on the theft!

And he's so proud of himself, too. Ugh.

Yes, everyone, Walmart is the victim here, remember that!

Lets all cry some big crocodile tears for Walmart.

Walmart.............

 

[BigFwoosh]

Ethically I'm against this... but this couldn't have happened to a better company.

I think that's a good way of putting it.

 

[Joey Fox]

So many fraudsters in this thread. If you know the site isn't legit, you're committing a crime.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Ah ok, PS4 was 90$ on Amazon, so that's why it's topping the charts there now. I was like "wtf?" when I saw that.

The PS4 rise is due to the increased traffic to the page, not people "buying" these consoles.

 

[Marcel]

Yes, everyone, Walmart is the victim here, remember that!

Lets all cry some big crocodile tears for Walmart.

Walmart.............

Some people on GAF love having big crybaby tears for corporations. It doesn't surprise me that Walmart is now among them.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I don't shop at Walmart period so I guess I am also the reason that Johnny Walmart Employee's kids will be cold and hungry on Christmas or whatever other bullshit people are using as ridiculous, loaded examples.

Your not shopping at Walmart is also not removing product from Walmart

 

[Sakujou]

america. unbelievable, and lucky bastards to get through with this scam.
this is pretty much setting up a "not-gonna-happen" price match.

and no, price matching is not a scam, but some of these guys must have some brain left to do something this hilarious.

anyway congratz to those who achieved this.

 

[//ARCANUM]

I wouldn't. I also check the bills when I get my change to make sure the cashier didn't give me too much back.

It's a lot easier to do when you remember that fucking over a big corporation isn't fucking over the big corporation, it's fucking over the potentially ignorant employee right in front of you.



There's a difference between shopping elsewhere and purposefully defrauding a company's price-match policy using a fraudulent listing on Amazon. Imagine that!



All your examples are cases where either you and the salesman are entering a good-faith agreement or you're exercising basic consumer rights.

That's a huge difference from engaging in borderline fraud.

But hey, let's pretend purposefully scamming someone isn't a bad thing! That's cool too!

I've said it before in this thread, I'll say it again: If it's shitty behavior at a mom'n'pop local business, it's shitty behavior at Walmart.

Okay. I bow down to you. You and most of the folk in this thread are some PERFECT people.

I'm out.

 

[IISANDERII]

<--

We've had at least two people earlier in the thread testify as ex-employees that accidents, scams, etc cut into their holiday bonus, while they worked there. So unless Wal-Mart suddenly became more benevolent to their employees *cough*unlikely*cough*, hi-jinks like these cost regular employees some money.

Once again, no one here, in this entire thread has defended Wal-Mart as a corporation. It's known that they are shitty, especially to their employees.

Simplistic. Walmart sending their own employees to the gallows because of a 3rd party misdeed is the same defence oppressive governments use to deter uprising and subjugate their own peoples.

Thank god the grown up world isn't so naive as to allow these kinds of hostage tactics to permit Walmart to get away with anything they want. But if you do, then yes, you are effectively defending Walmart on principle; you concede the status quo and deny opportunity against them.

 

[Wickerbasket]

You're really expecting something reasonable here? I've seen buying used games called "legalized piracy".

I dunno, if I had to pick which was worse between a fraudster and a shoplifter, then I'd probably pick the fraudster.

The planning and blatant deception that is part of the act of fraud is what makes it worse in my opinion.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

So, this is how Sony win November.

 

[Marcel]

Your not shopping at Walmart is also not removing product from Walmart

I would never want to remove a product from Walmart because being inside a Walmart is like entering post-apocalypse version of a Venture store.

 

[Arkage]

It's probably easier to make the argument "Walmart makes $17 billion in profits a year, so committing this fraud is hardly a ping on their financial radar, so I feel no ethical obligation towards them" than the argument "This isn't fraud, it's a grey area." Just saying.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Well in Holland for example, you can't do this. As stores always note that they won't compete with internet prices.

 

[Rebel Leader]

You can't pay lower than minimum wage.

cut hours?

 

[Tigress]

If you go in to get Walmart to price match and you know the website is fake, it's fraud, pure and simple. And yes, they could prosecute you for it if they can prove that you were aware it was fake and intended to trick them. Now, most likely they aren't going to cause it's not worth the money (They might for the person who created the fake webpage though).

Now, getting them to prove that you knew it was fake is a different thing entirely.

Also, for those that say there is nothing wrong with this cause the employees could see that it was a fake website, basically what you're saying is that it is ok to scam some one as long as they fall for it. Because obviously if they fall for it, it is their fault. Not yours for trying to trick them. You all advocating that need to go back and take some ethics classes and pay attention real closely because apparently no one ever bothered to teach you any.

It's probably easier to make the argument "Walmart makes $17 billion in profits a year, so committing this fraud is hardly a ping on their financial radar, so I feel no ethical obligation towards them" than the argument "This isn't fraud, it's a grey area." Just saying.

Well at least then they are being honest to both everyone else and themselves.

 

[BlastProcessing]

You do know they tend to repackage them and sell them at a discounted price right? They either do that or they send it back to manufacturer to get a partial or even complete refund depending on the overall condition.

This shit affects bottom line much less than you think. Especially with the amazon thing. How many price matches do you think they do a year? I'm going to guess that they probably lose millions on price matches every year. Are you telling me that every time an employee needs to do a price match, their bonus gets directly affected? Because that is exactly what it sounds like you're saying

And the difference between the original price and the discount is lost value. If they get a refund from the manufacturer then the lost value falls there. (The dynamics between Wal-Mart and the manufacturers are a totally different bag of hurt.)

First you said that it was at the expense of nobody. Now you say that it's a small amount.

Your claim that nobody was affected was what made me reply to you in the first place. Who do you think this affects? How does the missing value magically disappear? Have you ever worked retail? You are making absolute statements that seem to be based on guesses.

 

[Xeroblade]

If you go in to get Walmart to price match and you know the website is fake, it's fraud, pure and simple.

Now, getting them to prove that you knew it was fake is a different thing entirely.

Also, for those that say there is nothing wrong with this cause the employees could see that it was a fake website, basically what you're saying is that it is ok to scam some one as long as they fall for it. Because obviously if they fall for it, it is their fault. Not yours for trying to trick them. You all advocating that need to go back and take some ethics classes and pay attention real closely because apparently no one ever bothered to teach you any.

 

[Marcel]

If you go in to get Walmart to price match and you know the website is fake, it's fraud, pure and simple.

Now, getting them to prove that you knew it was fake is a different thing entirely.

Also, for those that say there is nothing wrong with this cause the employees could see that it was a fake website, basically what you're saying is that it is ok to scam some one as long as they fall for it. Because obviously if they fall for it, it is their fault. Not yours for trying to trick them. You all advocating that need to go back and take some ethics classes and pay attention real closely because apparently no one ever bothered to teach you any.

Oh damn, I forgot to take GAF Ethics 101 when I got my bachelor's. Now I'll never know why the magazine rack incident is one of the great moral and ethical events of our time.

 

[Naminator]

Okay. I bow down to you. You and most of the folk in this thread are some PERFECT people.

I'm out.

On the Internet everyone is perfect, so this kind of stuff doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Marcel]

On the Internet everyone is perfect, so this kind of stuff doesn't surprise me at all.

On NeoGAF people never pirate old games, imported games, sports events, TV shows or video game music. It simply doesn't happen.

 

[SkylineRKR]

If you go in to get Walmart to price match and you know the website is fake, it's fraud, pure and simple.

Now, getting them to prove that you knew it was fake is a different thing entirely.

Also, for those that say there is nothing wrong with this cause the employees could see that it was a fake website, basically what you're saying is that it is ok to scam some one as long as they fall for it. Because obviously if they fall for it, it is their fault. Not yours for trying to trick them. You all advocating that need to go back and take some ethics classes and pay attention real closely because apparently no one ever bothered to teach you any.



Well at least then they are being honest to both everyone else and themselves.

Good frauds are brilliant imo. I'm against it if individuals get robbed, but against corporations... I don't really care.

This is basically a modern version of price sticker switching, which I did as a kid. I remember getting the just released Zelda Link's Awakening for a quarter of the price and felt the rush when I walked out.

 

[Zaku]

Okay. I bow down to you. You and most of the folk in this thread are some PERFECT people.

I'm out.

Nobody's perfect, but setting the bar for perfection at "I'm not willing to call deliberate fraud anything but deliberate fraud" is quite low.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

<--Simplistic. Walmart sending their own employees to the gallows because of a 3rd party misdeed is the same defence oppressive governments use to deter uprising and subjugate their own peoples.

Thank god the grown up world isn't so naive as to allow these kinds of hostage tactics to permit Walmart to get away with anything they want. But if you do, then yes, you are effectively defending Walmart on principle; you concede the status quo and deny opportunity against them.

Fight the power by scamming PS4s, grown up comrades

 

[Marcel]

Good frauds are brilliant imo. I'm against it if individuals get robbed, but against corporations... I don't really care.

Think of the Hypothetical Children of Hypothetical Walmart Employee who will not be able to wear shoes this winter because someone got an $89.99 PS4.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

This thread is now a parody of itself.

Its amazing what lengths people will go to in a desire to be right.

 

[speculawyer]

Ethically I'm against this... but this couldn't have happened to a better company.

.

 

[SeventhSon]

Are there pics of PS4s inside canoes yet?

 

[TheSadRanger]

You can't pay lower than minimum wage.

From someone who's worked around retail as a vendor for quite a few years there's a lot of misinformation in this thread of what Wal-Mart employees get paid.

They're starting part time employees get paid well over minimum wage and comparatively much better than they would at Target or another grocery store. The exception to that is Costco.

The salary that Wal-Mart management makes is nothing to scoff at either, assistant's make around 50k a year with co-managers making around 65-75k a year at most super centers. Store Manager's earn anywhere around 150-200k a year from what I've heard if the person is at a good supercenter.

However if a store does count this loss as "shrink" for selling PS4's this cheap than it absolutely takes away bonus money from employees for their yearly shrink bonus. For instance a store is given $250k a year of shrink money, (I'm throwing the number out of my head). Whatever is left of that money after the year is over is split up among the employees in the store.

 

[Marcel]

Are there pics of PS4s inside canoes yet?

I'm gonna use my cheap canoe to row down the river of fatuous crocodile tears flowing throughout this thread.

 

[Shig]

On NeoGAF people never pirate old games, imported games, sports events, TV shows or video game music. It simply doesn't happen.

Which of those carries an immediate loss of $310 to the supplier and involves the removal of a finite physical product from the supply chain, one that someone would almost assuredly have come along and paid full price for somewhere in the short-term future?

 

[Pattycakes]

I think there's a line between pricing errors/mistakes and knowingly ripping off a company. Taking advantage of a pricing error like Walmart's gaff last year during Black Friday? Okay. Knowingly trying to buy a product at a lower price on a bogus listing? Not okay.

 

[The Beard]

I can't believe Walmart doesn't call these companies to see if the prices are legit.

Random customer : "Will you price match company X on this 80" 4K TV for $75 ?"

Walmart employee : " Of course, that's our policy "

It's Walmarts fault. Do your due diligence.