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[evil monkey]

I'd say a couple of things.

I don't care if Samus became male. Changes don't get under my skin like it does many people here. For example, I gave no shits about the Dante redesign.

My major criticism of it would just be that there isn't a problem with a lack of male leads in games, so I wouldn't see what it would be achieving. Also, the scenario is a bit different since Samus is the same character in all of the games, while Link isn't, and there's a perfectly reasonable plot explanation for why Link would be male in one game, and female in another.

It may be reasonable to have an incarnation of Link be female, but it wouldn't make sense to have this particular one be female when he's been a male for over 28 years. And for all we know reincarnation could be gender-locked in the Zelda universe, not everything has to be the same as it is in our world.

Each Link is a different character, with no shared memory, personality, or body. They just wear the same clothes. No one is suggesting Link get lobotomized in the middle of a game and have his brain transplanted into someone else's body, even though this is still shockingly close to the beginning of Majora's Mask.

This is more like someone getting pissed because the reincarnation cycle in Avatar isn't restricted to men.

It may be a different Link almost every time, but you knew it was him from the beginning. There wasn't any time when you played a Zelda game and said "I don't like this Link he's nothing like [insert game here] Link." The differences between them were entirely cosmetic, like him having his hair on one side instead of the other. They're all essentially the same character.

First there is no lack of strong male protagonists. Second, Samus is not a mystic hero who is resurrected into a literal new body each game.

Stupid example with no thought put into it.

She may not be a mystic hero, but my point was that she's an established character that has always been female regardless of the game she was in. If you turn Link into a female, it won't be Link anymore, get it?

 

[Freshmaker]

First there is no lack of strong male protagonists. Second, Samus is not a mystic hero who is resurrected into a literal new body each game.

Stupid example with no thought put into it.

There's never been any statement by Nintendo that Samus can't transfer her suit and powers to someone else. There's no reason they couldn't do it. Well... Except tradition.

Picture this scenario. Samus and Anthony get together. Samus gets pregnant and decides to settle down and raise her child. Anthony takes over use of the power suit due to Samus's Chozo granted powers operating a lot like a STD.

Yes that is all completely absurd but I wouldn't put it past Nintendo after Other M. The idea that Nintendo could create a strong female character that would be somehow progressive and engage in positive gender role discussions in game with Other M in play, I just don't get where that notion comes from.

 

[Trame]

It may be a different Link almost every time, but you knew it was him from the beginning. There wasn't any time when you played a Zelda game and said "I don't like this Link he's nothing like [insert game here] Link." The differences between them were entirely cosmetic, like him having his hair on one side instead of the other. They're all essentially the same character.

Right, they're entirely cosmetic changes. That's kind of the point. If you changed the skin color or gender of his character model in a new game it wouldn't affect anything else.

The main reason that, as you say, they're "essentially the same character" - other than that they wear a green outfit - is that there's almost nothing identifiable about his character outside of rudimentary personality traits. Link never says anything, and clearly does not share the memories of past versions of himself. All you have to go off of to say they're essentially the same is, what, he's usually courageous in the face of danger, and confused or dismayed but the zany things NPCs do in cutscenes. None of which is specific to him being male. And, to be honest, I'd argue his portrayal is not-so-subtly different in say Wind Waker and Majora's Mask, but it's hard to talk about because there's so little there to begin with.

If you're arguing there's something intrinsic to his gender that's a defining characteristic of who he is, moreso than his age, appearance, hair color, I'd say you're reading into something that isn't there. Even the most iconic aspects of Link change from game to game. In some games the Triforce of Courage doesn't come up. In some games he doesn't wear green forever. He doesn't always get the Master Sword or Epona, and doesn't always meet Zelda. In some games he gets split into four separate Links. In at least one game he literally inhabits the bodies of other species.

But him being a dude is the one thing that can't change ever?

There's never been any statement by Nintendo that Samus can't transfer her suit and powers to someone else. There's no reason they couldn't do it. Well... Except tradition.

Wasn't another human, but this literally already happened in Metroid Fusion.

 

[Eidan]

It may be reasonable to have an incarnation of Link be female, but it wouldn't make sense to have this particular one be female when he's been a male for over 28 years. And for all we know reincarnation could be gender-locked in the Zelda universe, not everything has to be the same as it is in our world.

It wouldn't make sense? Are you saying you would need some kind of explanation besides "Nintendo decided that this Link would be a woman?"

Well, if you need a plot explanation, it's as simple as "Time is great, and we've only glimpsed some of the Links throughout the timeline, and they happened to be male." One and done.

And you're right, the reincarnations could be gender locked. Not sure why it would be though.

 

[evil monkey]

Right, they're entirely cosmetic changes. That's kind of the point. If you changed the skin color or gender of his character model in a new game it wouldn't affect anything else.

The main reason that, as you say, they're "essentially the same character" - other than that they wear a green outfit - is that there's almost nothing identifiable about his character outside of rudimentary personality traits. Link never says anything, and clearly does not share the memories of past versions of himself. All you have to go off of to say they're essentially the same is, what, he's usually courageous in the face of danger, and confused or dismayed but the zany things NPCs do in cutscenes. None of which is specific to him being male. And, to be honest, I'd argue his portrayal is not-so-subtly different in say Wind Waker and Majora's Mask, but it's hard to talk about because there's so little there to begin with.

If you're arguing there's something intrinsic to his gender that's a defining characteristic of who he is, moreso than his age, appearance, hair color, I'd say you're reading into something that isn't there. Even the most iconic aspects of Link change from game to game. In some games the Triforce of Courage doesn't come up. In some games he doesn't wear green forever. He doesn't always get the Master Sword or Epona, and doesn't always meet Zelda. In some games he gets split into four separate Links. In at least one game he literally inhabits the bodies of other species.

But him being a dude is the one thing that can't change ever?

But him being male is one of the things that are consistent between all incarnations. And my bad, I should've been more clear when I mentioned cosmetic differences. By cosmetic, I meant things like him having a cartoonish form in some games and being realistic-looking in others, his hair having a different shade of blonde in each game, etc etc. Him being a white Hylian blond male is a trait that all Links share.

Changing his race and features would also change the character. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all major characters should be white Hylian blond males, but if want to have such a different character, why not simply create a new one and leave Link as he is?

 

[bengraven]

I agree with everything Trame said.

There is zero reason a female option would change the story. There is also zero reason we couldn't have the option.

I'm not going to try and ruffle feathers by saying detractors are arm chair mysogonists or possibly too obsessive fan boys who refuse any change to their beloved character, but I would hope that people could have a bit of open mind.

Like the guy who read Hobbit to his daughter with Bilbo as a female - it did NOT change the story at all, but it gave a little girl a hero she could relate to. As a dad, that was incredibly powerful to me, though I don't have a daughter...yet. But I will someday and I would rather introduce her to my hobby with some of the best games of all time with strong females and not females with tits and ass or her other option: boys only.

 

[Nostremitus]

Nintendo could give the option to choose a male or female Link at the beginning of the next game. Outside of a few textures, meshes, and pronouns nothing else in the game would change. Hell, Link's "voice" wouldn't even need to change, it's androgynous. It's kind of pointless not to add the feature since Link is literally a "link" for the player to set themselves in the game world.

 

[balgajo]

But him being a dude is the one thing that can't change ever?

Blonde, young, white, male, blue eyes, sideburns. Those are more important than his green clothes imo.

 

[Trame]

But him being male is one of the things that are consistent between all incarnations. And my bad, I should've been more clear when I mentioned cosmetic differences. By cosmetic, I meant things like him having a cartoonish form in some games and being realistic-looking in others, his hair having a different shade of blonde in each game, etc etc. Him being a white Hylian blond male is a trait that all Links share.

Changing his race and features would also change the character. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all major characters should be white Hylian blond males, but if want to have such a different character, why not simply create a new one and leave Link as he is?

I'm just not seeing what is so fundamentally important about, say, Link being white. I literally do not see what effect it has on his character. It's true that he's been white in every game so far.

That being said, let's take your suggestion of making a new character.

Let's say Nintendo made a new game with a female character who was mute. Let's say there's Ganondorf, but there's no "Link" to stop him (where here we're defining Link as a male character). This canonically already happened at least once in Wind Waker. So this new female character tried to stop it - using traditional Zelda weapons like sword, bombs and bows, of course, because it's a Zelda game - and wore green clothes, only because she wanted to dress like the Hero (also canonically the reason Link wears green clothes in Wind Waker). Maybe she doesn't get the Master Sword, I honestly don't care, since from Twilight Princess we know that's not the only way Ganondorf can get sealed away anyway (at least for a few generations).

And of course she worked with Zelda to do it, because even though there's no Link, there's no reason there can't be a Zelda (after all, despite the whole three Triforce pieces nonsense, there's been games with Link and Zelda but no Ganondorf, and games with no one but Link). And basically in all of her interactions she responds in exactly the way Link would.

Also at the start of the game when you enter your name you can change her name to Link without the game crashing or throwing an ERRORLAYER_NOT_LINK exception.

You're okay with this?

 

[blankempathy]

Right, they're entirely cosmetic changes. That's kind of the point. If you changed the skin color or gender of his character model in a new game it wouldn't affect anything else.

The main reason that, as you say, they're "essentially the same character" - other than that they wear a green outfit - is that there's almost nothing identifiable about his character outside of rudimentary personality traits. Link never says anything, and clearly does not share the memories of past versions of himself. All you have to go off of to say they're essentially the same is, what, he's usually courageous in the face of danger, and confused or dismayed but the zany things NPCs do in cutscenes. None of which is specific to him being male. And, to be honest, I'd argue his portrayal is not-so-subtly different in say Wind Waker and Majora's Mask, but it's hard to talk about because there's so little there to begin with.

If you're arguing there's something intrinsic to his gender that's a defining characteristic of who he is, moreso than his age, appearance, hair color, I'd say you're reading into something that isn't there. Even the most iconic aspects of Link change from game to game. In some games the Triforce of Courage doesn't come up. In some games he doesn't wear green forever. He doesn't always get the Master Sword or Epona, and doesn't always meet Zelda. In some games he gets split into four separate Links. In at least one game he literally inhabits the bodies of other species.

But him being a dude is the one thing that can't change ever?


Wasn't another human, but this literally already happened in Metroid Fusion.

Of course there would be more to it then just changing his gender. If affects how the story will be written. You wouldn't write a story like skyward sword if link was female unless you made Zelda bi. Also I'm pretty sure Zelda is locked into her look due to being reincarnated in the image of the goddess. So thats one aspect affected. So now you'd have to write a story with a female link in mind. What about the marketing aspects of a brand new Link. Clearly Nintendo would market the new Link to promote their new game since they always have. She'd probably cameo in other games as well so lets say they put her into smash. What would they call her? <insert games title> Link? Then what happens in alter installments of the series? Would the option of a female Link stay? Would there be an ability to pick a female or a male link? If so then again you'd have to write the story for both genders. Which means you're basically throwing out any love story between link and zelda unless you make them bi. And sure we never see Link actually end up with zelda except for maybe in Skyward sword but Link and Zelda are about as iconic together as Mario and Peach. Ken and Barbie. While the stories never focus too much on them together its always been heavily implied. Its easy to say "make one zelda game with a female link" but actually think about what that means overall in the bigger picture. Maybe if they make one game with a female link it would work out but I really don't believe that people would happily accept that experiment as a one time thing.

It wouldn't make sense? Are you saying you would need some kind of explanation besides "Nintendo decided that this Link would be a woman?"

Well, if you need a plot explanation, it's as simple as "Time is great, and we've only glimpsed some of the Links throughout the timeline, and they happened to be male." One and done.

And you're right, the reincarnations could be gender locked. Not sure why it would be though.

Why would it be gender locked? Let me ask you this then. Why is he reincarnated to look virtually the same every time? Or does the spirit of the hero just happen to like being a blue eyed/blonde male? Doesn't it make more sense that Link and the spirit of the hero are one in the same?

 

[blankempathy]

I'm just not seeing what is so fundamentally important about, say, Link being white. I literally do not see what effect it has on his character. It's true that he's been white in every game so far.

That being said, let's take your suggestion of making a new character.

Let's say Nintendo made a new game with a female character who was mute. Let's say there's Ganondorf, but there's no "Link" to stop him (where here we're defining Link as a male character). This canonically already happened at least once in Wind Waker. So this new female character tried to stop it - using traditional Zelda weapons like sword, bombs and bows, of course, because it's a Zelda game - and wore green clothes, only because she wanted to dress like the Hero (also canonically the reason Link wears green clothes in Wind Waker). Maybe she doesn't get the Master Sword, I honestly don't care, since from Twilight Princess we know that's not the only way Ganondorf can get sealed away anyway (at least for a few generations).

And of course she worked with Zelda to do it, because even though there's no Link, there's no reason there can't be a Zelda (after all, despite the whole three Triforce pieces nonsense, there's been games with Link and Zelda but no Ganondorf, and games with no one but Link). And basically in all of her interactions she responds in exactly the way Link would.

Also at the start of the game when you enter your name you can change her name to Link without the game crashing or throwing an ERRORLAYER_NOT_LINK exception.

You're okay with this?

This has already been brought up before. Do you really think Link would not appear in game in some form?

 

[Nostremitus]

This has already been brought up before. Do you really think Link would not appear in game in some form?

He didn't show up in Windwaker. The main character isn't the reincarnated hero, he's just some dude with really bad luck who accepted the challenge.

 

[Trame]

This has already been brought up before. Do you really think Link would not appear in game in some form?

Obviously not.

Did you play Wind Waker? They had to pray to the gods to flood their entire kingdom because Link never showed up.

 

[blankempathy]

He didn't show up in Windwaker. The main character isn't the reincarnated hero, he's just done dude with really bad luck who accepted the challenge.

Im a bit rusty on my wind waker lore. As far as didn't show up Ganon won because that timelines Link was sent back in time hence why he was gone when he was freed. I don't remember the story specifically saying that Link from the WW wasn't a reincarnated version of the hero.

Obviously not.

Did you play Wind Waker? They had to pray to the gods to flood their entire kingdom because Link never showed up.

Because Ocarina of time's link was sent back in time. He no longer existed. Of course thats confusing in itself because then what happens to young link in that timeline. Thats a whole time travel issue because the game basically splits into two timelines. One where adult link becomes a kid again and the timeline where adult link defeated ganon and left it behind.

 

[evil monkey]

I'm just not seeing what is so fundamentally important about, say, Link being white. I literally do not see what effect it has on his character. It's true that he's been white in every game so far.

That being said, let's take your suggestion of making a new character.

Let's say Nintendo made a new game with a female character who was mute. Let's say there's Ganondorf, but there's no "Link" to stop him (where here we're defining Link as a male character). This canonically already happened at least once in Wind Waker. So this new female character tried to stop it - using traditional Zelda weapons like sword, bombs and bows, of course, because it's a Zelda game - and wore green clothes, only because she wanted to dress like the Hero (also canonically the reason Link wears green clothes in Wind Waker). Maybe she doesn't get the Master Sword, I honestly don't care, since from Twilight Princess we know that's not the only way Ganondorf can get sealed away anyway (at least for a few generations).

And of course she worked with Zelda to do it, because even though there's no Link, there's no reason there can't be a Zelda (after all, despite the whole three Triforce pieces nonsense, there's been games with Link and Zelda but no Ganondorf, and games with no one but Link). And basically in all of her interactions she responds in exactly the way Link would.

Also at the start of the game when you enter your name you can change her name to Link without the game crashing or throwing an ERRORLAYER_NOT_LINK exception.

You're okay with this?

Well, in the current games you can name the hero anything you want. Hypothetically if Nintendo did create a new character, I don't see why they wouldn't let the players name her Link. I can name him "Louise" in any of the games, but he still remains Link.

He didn't show up in Windwaker. The main character isn't the reincarnated hero, he's just some dude with really bad luck who accepted the challenge.

If memory serves me right, in Skyward Sword

Spoiler

Link forges the Master Sword himself, and Fi implies that only him and his descendants will be able to wield it. Since TWW Link was able to wield the sword, that would make him the reincarnated hero as well. OOT Link may be gone from that timeline, but TWW Link could very well be a reincarnation of SS Link.

 

[Freshmaker]

Let's say Nintendo made a new game with a female character who was mute. Let's say there's Ganondorf, but there's no "Link" to stop him (where here we're defining Link as a male character). This canonically already happened at least once in Wind Waker. So this new female character tried to stop it - using traditional Zelda weapons like sword, bombs and bows, of course, because it's a Zelda game - and wore green clothes, only because she wanted to dress like the Hero (also canonically the reason Link wears green clothes in Wind Waker). Maybe she doesn't get the Master Sword, I honestly don't care, since from Twilight Princess we know that's not the only way Ganondorf can get sealed away anyway (at least for a few generations).

And of course she worked with Zelda to do it, because even though there's no Link, there's no reason there can't be a Zelda (after all, despite the whole three Triforce pieces nonsense, there's been games with Link and Zelda but no Ganondorf, and games with no one but Link). And basically in all of her interactions she responds in exactly the way Link would.

I think a more interesting way to present it would be to take a Zelda 2 take on it. Ganon's out of the picture defeated by Link but Ganon's followers are rallying to revive him.

Somehow Link gets taken out of the picture. (Say he's just too old now, or they can't risk letting him do it because Ganon's allies need his blood to resurrect Ganon etc.) and the person left to pick up where he left off is Link's daughter.

New character with a reason to adopt the hero mantle, no damsel in distress trope to drive people wild and it enables a direct sequel to one of several game worlds rather than just going for another prequel.

 

[KingJ2002]

No. Introduce a new character if you want, don't change Link.

^^this

 

[Trame]

Of course there would be more to it then just changing his gender. If affects how the story will be written. You wouldn't write a story like skyward sword if link was female unless you made Zelda bi. Also I'm pretty sure Zelda is locked into her look due to being reincarnated in the image of the goddess. So thats one aspect affected. So now you'd have to write a story with a female link in mind. What about the marketing aspects of a brand new Link. Clearly Nintendo would market the new Link to promote their new game since they always have. She'd probably cameo in other games as well so lets say they put her into smash. What would they call her? <insert games title> Link? Then what happens in alter installments of the series? Would the option of a female Link stay? Would there be an ability to pick a female or a male link? If so then again you'd have to write the story for both genders. Which means you're basically throwing out any love story between link and zelda unless you make them bi. And sure we never see Link actually end up with zelda except for maybe in Skyward sword but Link and Zelda are about as iconic together as Mario and Peach. Ken and Barbie. While the stories never focus too much on them together its always been heavily implied. Its easy to say "make one zelda game with a female link" but actually think about what that means overall in the bigger picture. Maybe if they make one game with a female link it would work out but I really don't believe that people would happily accept that experiment as a one time thing.

Okay so the argument here seems to be that it wouldn't work because Link and Zelda couldn't be romantically involved, unless Zelda is bisexual. I'm going to ignore the issue of whether there's anything wrong with Zelda being bisexual - simply because this is a game for kids, and so many parents would freak out it's almost unbelievable Nintendo would actually do it, so moot point - and just point out that there's a lot of games with Link where Zelda doesn't show up, and games where Zelda does show up but there's really no active romance at all.

Like in Twilight Princess, do you think Link and Zelda had a thing for each other? They barely spent any time together, and I don't think that was ever even hinted at. So sure, just make another game like Twilight Princess, where no romance is implied. The only problem then is that you can't imagine they're together while simultaneously imagining Zelda as being confirmed heterosexual in your mind. But my only response to that is to shrug, really.

 

[Nostremitus]

Im a bit rusty on my wind waker lore. As far as didn't show up Ganon won because that timelines Link was sent back in time hence why he was gone when he was freed. I don't remember the story specifically saying that Link from the WW wasn't a reincarnated version of the hero.


Because Ocarina of time's link was sent back in time. He no longer existed. Of course thats confusing in itself because then what happens to young link in that timeline. Thats a whole time travel issue because the game basically splits into two timelines. One where adult link becomes a kid again and the timeline where adult link defeated ganon and left it behind.

In new game+ the spirit language is translated. When the King of Red Lions is trying to convince Jabun to give Link his pearl, it is brought up.

 

[Eidan]

Why would it be gender locked? Let me ask you this then. Why is he reincarnated to look virtually the same every time? Or does the spirit of the hero just happen to like being a blue eyed/blonde male? Doesn't it make more sense that Link and the spirit of the hero are one in the same?

I don't have an answer for that. Neither do you. I do know that there's nothing from past games that would stop Nintendo from making Link a woman. It would make perfect sense from a plot perspective, and I think you know that.

 

[Trame]

Well, in the current games you can name the hero anything you want. Hypothetically if Nintendo did create a new character, I don't see why they wouldn't let the players name her Link. I can name him "Louise" in any of the games, but he still remains Link.

Right, okay.

So I just described a game to you where the character is basically indistinguishable from Link, except that the character is a woman and her default name is not Link. But otherwise she walks like Link, talks (mimes) like Link, does what Link does. And you can call her Link.

So if Nintendo changed the default name in this Link-who-is-not-Link game to Link, that's not a problem, right? If the name doesn't matter to begin with and Link has to always be male, she's still not the Link. This girl? Totally some other Link.

And now we have a game where I can pretend Link can be a woman, and you can pretend a female Link isn't Link. Everybody wins!

 

[blankempathy]

In new game+ the spirit language is translated. When the King of Red Lions is trying to convince Jabun to give Link his pearl, it is brought up.

Whats brought up? That he's not the reincarnation of link? Why wouldn't he be? Link didn't show not because he wasn't reincarnated. It was because he was sent back in time after ganon revived. Its a case of Zelda 1 and 2. in Zelda 1 link defeats ganon. in 2 his followers are trying to revive him. However unlike zelda 2 link isn't around to fight him again because he's been sent back in time. Not because he wasn't reincarnated or the hero's cycle somehow broken. The problem is what happened to future timelines original link? That I can't say but I do think that the hero's spirit can't exist at the same time. If link had stayed and continued to live in the future timeline then he would of fought ganon and the whole "reincarnation" thing wouldn't be an issue. You could of just brought up a link to the past. In that timeline which should be the timeline where he's sent into the future ganon wins because link left. Then the Sages had to seal him. However that doesn't mean he didn't play a part in the story. Of course thats the problem with zelda lore in general. its so loosely tied together because the creators apparently didn't plan to make it all one universe. Also I'm pretty sure that people thought that the hero was gone because he was sent back in time so they had to flood hyrule. He doesn't show up until windwaker because thats when ganon actually returns. There was no need for him to be reborn until ganon became a threat again since he's been sealed that entire time. I don't ever think it was confirmed that he was just a random boy.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I don't have an answer for that. Neither do you. I do know that there's nothing from past games that would stop Nintendo from making Link a woman. It would make perfect sense from a plot perspective, and I think you know that.

Obviously people don't think it makes "perfect sense from a plot perspective", else we wouldn't have a 36 page thread arguing about it.

 

[blankempathy]

I don't have an answer for that. Neither do you. I do know that there's nothing from past games that would stop Nintendo from making Link a woman. It would make perfect sense from a plot perspective, and I think you know that.

I can't answer for Nintendo but the assumption is that the chosen hero and Link are the same person. That he's reborn and looks the same because he is the same person reborn to fight evil. How does that not make more sense then the hero's spirit simply chooses to look the same? Just like Hylia was chosen by the goddesses, she chose link. They were actual beings who existed reborn through time to fight evil.

 

[evil monkey]

Right, okay.

So I just described a game to you where the character is basically indistinguishable from Link, except that the character is a woman and her default name is not Link. But otherwise she walks like Link, talks (mimes) like Link, does what Link does. And you can call her Link.

So if Nintendo changed the default name in this Link-who-is-not-Link game to Link, that's not a problem, right? If the name doesn't matter to begin with and Link has to always be male, she's still not the Link. This girl? Totally some other Link.

And now we have a game where I can pretend Link can be a woman, and you can pretend a female Link isn't Link. Everybody wins!

I get what you're saying. But my point is they can simply create a brand new character and people are free to either consider her as a complete newcomer or as "Link reincarnated into a woman", but for all intents and purposes Link would remain unchanged. So yes, this way everybody wins.

 

[Easy_D]

Silly is changing a well known and established characters to fit twisted social agendas instead of just making a new character or new game.

The meaning of phrase "don't fix what is not broken" is lost here.

So essentially being female would "break" Link as a character? Because why? Exactly how would Link be any less of a character if she were a female? Change is good, it's what drives society forward.

Why would it be gender locked? Let me ask you this then. Why is he reincarnated to look virtually the same every time? Or does the spirit of the hero just happen to like being a blue eyed/blonde male? Doesn't it make more sense that Link and the spirit of the hero are one in the same?

Twilight Princess contradicts this seeing as the Hero's Shade is 100% the spirit of a previous Link. It's not like there's some Link spirit that goes about reincarnating into a new body every time.

Edit: In fact, Wind Waker supports this as well since the KorL is all "This kid ain't related to no hero yo" to Valoo.

 

[jon bones]

the salty misogyny is delicious. it's hilarious how many people who are invested in the series have completely misunderstood Nintendo and their game design philosophy.

i sincerely hope Zelda U features a female Link. the design we saw in the trailer would make for an amazing female lead.

 

[blankempathy]

Twilight Princess contradicts this seeing as the Hero's Shade is 100% the spirit of a previous Link. It's not like there's some Link spirit that goes about reincarnating into a new body every time.



So essentially being female would "break" Link as a character? Because why? Exactly how would Link be any less of a character if she were a female? Change is good, it's what drives society forward.

The hero's shade is a special case. He's the link that never got to be a hero. He's his lingering regret that manifested itself as the hero's shade.

 

[RagnarokX]

He didn't show up in Windwaker. The main character isn't the reincarnated hero, he's just some dude with really bad luck who accepted the challenge.

Link and Zelda don't reincarnate. The various Zeldas inherit the goddess powers/light force and Ganon has reincarnated once, but the Links seem to be just some dude that happens to be the rightful bearer of the triforce of courage. Wind Waker's Link is special, though, in that he most likely isn't related to any other Link and he had to earn his triforce of courage more thoroughly than others. Sometimes they have a triforce birthmark, sometimes they don't. ALttP implies that the Master Sword can only be wielded by a descendant of the Knights of Hyrule, though, so perhaps Wind Waker Link is related somehow. Maybe the Hero of Time's mom had another child and it was raised on Tattooine instead of Alderan.

 

[foxuzamaki]

the thing being brought up in this thread is that for some reason some people think that link being female would drastically change its appearance to the extreme, a female link can still be blonde, blue-eyed *femenine body type* and wear almost the exact same type of clothing barring if nintendo feels like changing it.

 

[RagnarokX]

Whats brought up? That he's not the reincarnation of link? Why wouldn't he be? Link didn't show not because he wasn't reincarnated. It was because he was sent back in time after ganon revived. Its a case of Zelda 1 and 2. in Zelda 1 link defeats ganon. in 2 his followers are trying to revive him. However unlike zelda 2 link isn't around to fight him again because he's been sent back in time. Not because he wasn't reincarnated or the hero's cycle somehow broken. The problem is what happened to future timelines original link? That I can't say but I do think that the hero's spirit can't exist at the same time. If link had stayed and continued to live in the future timeline then he would of fought ganon and the whole "reincarnation" thing wouldn't be an issue. You could of just brought up a link to the past. In that timeline which should be the timeline where he's sent into the future ganon wins because link left. Then the Sages had to seal him. However that doesn't mean he didn't play a part in the story. Of course thats the problem with zelda lore in general. its so loosely tied together because the creators apparently didn't plan to make it all one universe. Also I'm pretty sure that people thought that the hero was gone because he was sent back in time so they had to flood hyrule. He doesn't show up until windwaker because thats when ganon actually returns. There was no need for him to be reborn until ganon became a threat again since he's been sealed that entire time. I don't ever think it was confirmed that he was just a random boy.

They specifically bring up that he's not the Hero of Time. The Hero of Time got completely removed from that universe when he was sent back in time and created a parallel universe. That's why he never shows up to stop Ganon.

Jabun:
If you have sought me out...it must mean
you have found the Hero of Time,
does it not?

KoRL:
Unfortunately, that is not so.

Jabun:
Then for what purpose have you come to
see me?

KoRL:
The one I have brought with me has no
connection to the legendary one.
And yet I sense great promise in the
courage that this one possesses.

Jabun:
Promise?
You suggest that I leave the fate of Hyrule
up to mere chance?

KoRL:
I do. It is the only way.
I see. Then I suppose it is up to the gods
to deem whether his courage is true.

The hero's shade is a special case. He's the link that never got to be a hero. He's his lingering regret that manifested itself as the hero's shade.

The Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time who regrets that no one knows what he did in OoT and that he never got to pass down his skills. Plus the Light Spirits rob his grave so that TP Link can have his clothes so he has to wear a different outfit.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Wind Waker's Link is special, though, in that he most likely isn't related to any other Link and he had to earn his triforce of courage more thoroughly than others.

The family shield heirloom Link gets from his grandma was supposed to be used by one of the previous heroes, so there should be some bloodline relation there, somehow. Of course, how is anyones guess.

 

[Night Angel]

the salty misogyny is delicious. it's hilarious how many people who are invested in the series have completely misunderstood Nintendo and their game design philosophy.

i sincerely hope Zelda U features a female Link. the design we saw in the trailer would make for an amazing female lead.

What a great contribution to the discussion.

Why not elaborate on the misunderstanding instead of reducing all dissent to misogyny? Is it really that hard to have this discussion without being an ass?

 

[RagnarokX]

The family shield heirloom Link gets from his grandma was supposed to be used by one of the previous heroes.

That is true, but it is impossible for him to be descended from the Hero of Time himself since he never sired any offspring before he got removed from that universe. Wind Waker Link could be tangentially related or his family could have just gotten the shield and passed it down with no blood relation or the shield could not be related to the hero at all and Link's family just says it is. KoRL says he has no connection to the Hero of Time.

 

[Dice//]

The family shield heirloom Link gets from his grandma was supposed to be used by one of the previous heroes, so there should be some bloodline relation there, somehow. Of course, how is anyones guess.

Dark Helmet: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
Lone Starr: What does that make us?
Dark Helmet: Absolutely nothing!

That is true, but it is impossible for him to be descended from the Hero of Time himself since he never sired any offspring before he got removed from that universe. Wind Waker Link could be tangentially related or his family could have just gotten the shield and passed it down with no blood relation or the shield could not be related to the hero at all and Link's family just says it is. KoRL says he has no connection to the Hero of Time.

An actual coincidence in the series where the hero was fortunately blonde as well.
I like that the series has given Link dirty blonde hair, but I wonder if they'd even step outside of that comfort zone

Spoiler

like how they did for Ravio, if that counts

Ooo, speaking of the spirit, I love the alternate concept arts for him/her (Samurai version makes me want an Eastern-based Hyrule!!).

 

[Linkstrikesback]

That is true, but it is impossible for him to be descended from the Hero of Time himself since he never sired any offspring before he got removed from that universe. Wind Waker Link could be tangentially related or his family could have just gotten the shield and passed it down with no blood relation or the shield could not be related to the hero at all and Link's family just says it is. KoRL says he has no connection to the Hero of Time.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he had no offspring right away. Lord knows, adult link had enough lady friends to have done it in principle. I don't seriously expect Nintendo to show link boning anyone, even if it did happen.

Even ignoring that possibility, because as you say, WW link probably isn't directly related to The hero of time. That doesn't prevent him being the result of someone else in OOT links family boning someone else and being reborn that way, after all, if it really is partially genetic, that would result in a lot of people if even just a generation or two was...proactive.

shield could not be related to the hero at all and Link's family just says it is.

A shield turns up with the triforce logo on it, is important enough for them to keep over generations, and just happens to be in possession of a family of hylians that actually has a Link in it? We can prove anything if we are just arguing that everything is a huge coincidence. It seems more likely they do have some connection to the bloodline rather than not.

 

[Eidan]

Obviously people don't think it makes "perfect sense from a plot perspective", else we wouldn't have a 36 page thread arguing about it.

We have 36 pages of discussion not because it wouldn't make sense plot wise. People against the idea have even admitted that. We have 36 pages of discussion because Link is an old, popular character, and there would naturally be pushback against the idea.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Blonde, young, white, male, blue eyes, sideburns. Those are more important than his green clothes imo.

NES Zeldas non-canon

Honestly, this is shockingly weird, and with all respect I don't think you're being honest. If Wii U Link had brown hair and a green tunic, I propose to you that people would be less confused than how confused people were when blonde Link with a blue outfit was seen.

Also, someone mentioned that the amount of time Link has been how he is goes a long way to saying that he should remain like this. To that, I ask - should The Doctor never be a woman, or non-white? He's been around for nearly twice as long as Link.

 

[jon bones]

What a great contribution to the discussion.

Why not elaborate on the misunderstanding instead of reducing all dissent to misogyny? Is it really that hard to have this discussion without being an ass?

I'll be honest, it's been 18 pages and not a single person has made a coherent argument why Link shouldn't be female in Zelda U. All I'm reading is the same, tired arguments you see from the MRA/goober gate crew.

It would be refreshing, inclusive, interesting and falls perfectly in line with the original vision of the MC being a "link" to the player.

Half of gamers are women, it's high time they get their "link" to Hyrule.

We have 36 pages of discussion not because it wouldn't make sense plot wise. People against the idea have even admitted that. We have 36 pages of discussion because Link is an old, popular character, and there would naturally be pushback against the idea.

Gamers don't make good development leaders. Look at how WW was initially received, and now it's a fan favorite. Developers need to ignore the pushback and do what they want.

 

[Dice//]

Also, someone mentioned that the amount of time Link has been how he is goes a long way to saying that he should remain like this. To that, I ask - should The Doctor never be a woman, or non-white? He's been around for nearly twice as long as Link.

I think they're sort of "heading" that way. Certainly Missy was a surprise to a lot of people and a great first step forward. Hmm, maybe we SHOULD get a female Ganondorf (seriously Yuga was an uncreative route, that could have been a great chance there).

 

[Ninjimbo]

I'll be honest, it's been 18 pages and not a single person has made a coherent argument why Link shouldn't be female in Zelda U. It would be refreshing, inclusive, interesting and falls perfectly in line with the original vision of the MC being a "link" to the player. Half of gamers are women, it's high time they get their "link" to Hyrule.

Can that link not be the "Link"? Can the Link we all know retire and have a student take his place? Maybe a girl inherits the Triforce of Courage and has to save the day Mulan-style.

Just don't mess with Link, man. Is that so much to ask? Why should I have to construct an essay explaining this? Just because he doesn't talk and doesn't emote all that much doesn't make him any less of a character. Crono, Serge, and Gordon Freeman don't say anything, and yet they connected with legions of people. They became fan favorites. Hell, Samus never even showed a hint of personality until Fusion and she managed to attain untouchable, iconic status so why can't we do the same with Link? The connection some people have to the character is beyond story and lore. I'm not even sure if you can clearly define it, but why shouldn't it be respected? Link isn't just an avatar. Link is a Link and, yes, his looks and gender are part of that in the minds of many.

Honestly, I'm not sure why this is so surprising to some of you and why it merits arguing against. There's already scenarios laid out that would satisfy both camps.

 

[Magnus]

I'd dig the OP's change, or something similar. Something needs to change, surprise and/or delight fans. Shit's been stale for so long.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Can that link not be the "Link"? Can the Link we all know retire and have a student take his place? Maybe a girl inherits the Triforce of Courage and has to save the day Mulan-style.

Just don't mess with Link, man. Is that so much to ask? Why should I have to construct an essay explaining this? Just because he doesn't talk and doesn't emote all that much doesn't make him any less of a character. Crono, Serge, and Gordon Freeman don't say anything, and yet they connected with legions of people. They became fan favorites. Hell, Samus never even showed a hint of personality until Fusion and she managed to attain untouchable, iconic status so why can't we do the same with Link? The connection some people have to the character is beyond story and lore. I'm not even sure if you can clearly define it, but why shouldn't it be respected? Link isn't just an avatar. Link is a Link and, yes, his looks and gender are part of that in the minds of many.

Honestly, I'm not sure why this is so surprising to some of you and why it merits arguing against. There's already scenarios laid out that would satisfy both camps.

Link is the clothes, though. Like I've argued, his physical appearance enhances the recognizability, but one is clearly more important than the other.

 

[Mango The Magician]

.

I have no idea what's going on in this thread snymore, but it seems really disingenuous to assume or even hint that early versions of the Hero's Spirit had anything to do with Link, it was just literally a ghost character, that after all was said and done was attributed to Link, it's not some piece of evidence of a female Link ever existing.

Furthermore, it's also quite disingenuous to assume that WW has no relation, period to any other Link, considering...

-There are three identical Links post the split, leading credence to say the chain wasn't broken.
-Much like with ALBW the game makes a point to have the Link of the past look identical to current Link.
-We don't know the reasoning behind the KoRL words, and since WW was made long before reincarnation or rebirth or whatever was a actual canonical plot point, the KoRL could simply just be referring to family relation, I mean he's just a ghost why should we put anymore credence in his words than Ganons who says ww Link is related to the Hero of time?
-SS makes a point to establish that the MS will only accept Link as it's true master, ala Fi, the game even says "only Link may wield it" and WW Link isn't wielding a foam replica.
-We've evidence to say that the Goddesses choose Link, and since Hylia a lower tier goddess was able to orchestrate all of SS, why are we assuming that the other goddesses would get stumped by a simple timeline split.
-The ToC didn't travel with Link across the timeline, despite being inside him, and since there's not two young Links in the past of OOT, then it's reasonable to assume that it's the type of time travel where you merge or become one with your past subconscious (See the Go God Go south Park episode) with this in mind, we can assume that, the spirit if it exists is already in the past of OOT, and since just like the ToC being a permanent part of Link despite not actually needing Link to exist, then the only other part of Link that's similar to the ToC, the speculated spirit, could just as easily be barred from hopping timelines, especially if we're to assume it was created and/or maintained by Gods or Goddesses.

 

[thesolidshark]

I'll be honest, it's been 18 pages and not a single person has made a coherent argument why Link shouldn't be female in Zelda U. All I'm reading is the same, tired arguments you see from the MRA/goober gate crew.

It would be refreshing, inclusive, interesting and falls perfectly in line with the original vision of the MC being a "link" to the player.

Half of gamers are women, it's high time they get their "link" to Hyrule.

Honestly the reasonings for why Link shouldn't be a female are on equal enough footing with those who think Link should be a female imo; I just wouldn't go into the "who's a misogynist" or "who's a misandrist" based on those preferences.

"Fresh, inclusive, interesting" is more of a hope the pro femLink supporters have. I doubt just a gender swap would be enough for a whole new LoZ game to rejuvenate the franchise. People are still fighting over how much personality Link (by each iteration or altogether) has.

Schreier: But when you look at Link, you see a certain type of person—you see a male character... There was a case I remember where a father coded Legend of Zelda and made it so you could play as a woman because his daughter wanted to feel like she was really represented in the game. Mr. Aonuma, have you ever thought about that, and whether it'd be more inclusive to female players if they could play as someone of their own gender?

Aonuma: Is it that simple—that creating a female character means bringing more female users into the world?

Schreier: I guess what I mean is, when I'm playing and I see a man—in response to what you said about Link being a representation for the player, and the player being the main character—when a man is playing, he can feel more represented by the player character than a woman playing might.

Aonuma: So there are actually many female characters you can play as in Hyrule Warriors. We've introduced Midna, we've introduced Princess Zelda, and Impa as well. So if that connection needs to be there—I'm not saying that it does—let's see what happens with Hyrule Warriors, if as a result of there being more female protagonists, more women pick up the game, I'm all for it, so I've decided to see what happens with this title.

Given Anouma's words from this quote from Zeldablue, I hope most of the supporters picked up Hyrule Warriors, as that might give you a better chance. Though granted, that's if the number of new or total females playing is quantifiable, and if you trust Anouma's words.

Gamers don't make good development leaders. Look at how WW was initially received, and now it's a fan favorite. Developers need to ignore the pushback and do what they want.

Sometimes gamers do make good development leaders, especially if they're already development leaders who love to pay their own games. I agree with developers needing to ignore pushback in most cases, but I hope some don't expect everybody to jump for joy when a big change is made.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I have no idea what's goung on in this thread, but it seems really disingenuous to assume od even hint that early versions of the Hero's Spirit had anything to do with Link, it was just litterally a ghost character, that after all was said and done was attributed to Link, it's not some piece of evidence of a female Link ever existing.

Futhermore, it's also quite disingenuous to assume that WW has no relation, period to any other Link, considering...

-There are three identical Links post the split, leading credence to say the chain wasn't broken.
-Much like with ALBW the game makes a point to have the Link of the past look identical to current Link.
-We don't know the reasoning behind the KoRL words, and since WW was made long before reincarnation or rebirth or whatever was a actual canonical plot point, the KoRL could simply just be reffering to family relation, I mean he's just a ghost why should we put anymore credence in his words than Ganons who says ww Link is related to the Hero of time.
-SS makes a point to establish that the MS will only accept Link as it's true master, ala Fi, the game even says "only Link may weild it" and WW Link isn't weilding a foam replica.
-We've evidence to say that the Goddesses choose Link, and since Hylia a lower teir goddess was able to orchestrate all of SS, why are we assuming that the other goddesses would get stumped by a simple timeline split.
-The ToC didn't travel with Link across the timeline, despite being inside him, and since there's not two young Links in the past of OOT, then it's reasonable to assume that it's the type of time travel where you merge or become one with your past subconscious (See the Go God Go south Park episode) with this in mind, we can assume that, the spirit if it exists is already in the past of OOT, and since just like the ToC being a permanent part of Link despite not actually needing Link to exist, then the only other part of Link that's similar to the ToC, the speculated spirit, could just as easily be barred from hopping timelines, especially if we're to assume it was created and/or maintained by Gods or Goddesses.

TWW clearly establishes that Link in TWW is his own hero. Anything that continues from that is a new chain.

 

[Mango The Magician]

TWW clearly establishes that Link in TWW is his own hero. Anything that continues from that is a new chain.

WW established that WW Link has "no relation" to OOT Link, we don't know what "no relation" entails.

 

[A Link to the Past]

WW established that WW Link has "no relation" to OOT Link, we don't know what "no relation" entails.

According to KoRL, TWW Link is his own "thing."

 

[Mango The Magician]

According to KoRL, TWW Link is his own "thing."

According to the KoRL, WW Link has "no relation" to OOT Link, we don't know what that entails.

 

[A Link to the Past]

According to the KoRL, WW Link has "no relation" to OOT Link, we don't know what that entails.

He said no connection.