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Fighting Games Weekly | Nov 24-30 | Fighting Geriatrics Community

Azure J

Member
Bah I'm not really enjoying any other character than Zard right now :(

I'm in the same boat with Pit/Greninja/ZSS. It's like there's a bunch of characters with shades of what I want to play in themselves but enough working against it that I'm all eh trying them and then there's the characters that I just generally like from their source material because I'm a dork like that but they're either in this group already or just completely bleh.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
I really need to work on getting off the ledge better.

Also I need to fight bowser more patiently :l I get used to being able to go in on other characters then bowswer is like SUP MY SHIT BEATS ALL YOURS and I slam my face into all his shit :D
 
I really need to work on getting off the ledge better.

Also I need to fight bowser more patiently :l I get used to being able to go in on other characters then bowswer is like SUP MY SHIT BEATS ALL YOURS and I slam my face into all his shit :D
I need to stop holding forward during my run when I want to shield. I got hit by Flare Blitz over and over because I let go of run when I shield. -_-
 

CPS2

Member
Any good competitive game is going to have its set-play aspects. Only whiney people who lack the discipline enough to practice that aspect of the game, will express hate towards it.

But they want to have their cake and eat it, too, so they'll play grappler characters and talk a lot of about "fundamentals" and "footsies" in hopes to devalue set-play and inflate their self-worth, despite set-play being just as fundamental to a game as footsies (and their characters).

Don't think I'm talking about anyone in this thread, because the attitude is as old as time itself in the FGC.

Set-play is part of the athleticism in fighting games. You don't want to devalue that.

Maaaaan you just described this one dude I know perfectly. That's hilarious.
 

Kimosabae

Banned
I think I'll use the argument for skill development. What would you regard as skills in a fighting game? Godlike neutral game? Good pokes? Combos? Reading players? Patience?

Forgot to respond to this. CPS2's post just reminded me. This is hard to answer and bear in mind that it might not make any sense.

Fighting game skills generally boil down to any elements that take some degree of physical effort, dedication and experience to develop to their fullest potential. We respect skills that take more effort, dedication and experience and disrespect those skill sets that take less of those things (more or less). All those things you mentioned are skills, with the exception of patience, which is a character trait of particular players, that can aid a particular skill (such as blocking/defense).

Gonna be relatively abstract here to keep it short, but skill sets vary from game to game, obviously, and emphasize different things.

A game like Melee's ceiling is so high because there's a high degree of variability in regards to how many of the high-level techniques/tactics in that game can be utilized - Wavedash/Land in particular.

Generally it comes down to how much control a player has over any particular aspect of the game that determines how high a ceiling can be for a skill set. How far and in how many different directions can the envelope be pushed? The more analog any particular aspect is, the higher the potential skill ceiling for that aspect of the game, and the game in general.

In SF4, anti-airing is a necessary skill, that's scalable, since there's variability there in terms of consistency, how quickly a player can react to a player jumping at them, the attack worth using varies, etc.

Being able to break grabs with consistency is another one. While there's standard grab setups, the potential grab setups are enormous. Executing grabs are easy, breaking them are not, despite the fact that they have the same physical requirements.

Combos are another skill, in terms of consistency in their performance and optimization. The broader the combo system, the larger the scalability and the higher the potential ceiling.

While neutral in SF4 is highly analog, it pales in comparison to a game like Guilty Gear with many more movement options, so the skill ceiling for that aspect of the game is higher in the latter.

When you give staple FG elements such as movement and combos, a high-ceiling in regards to potential, that tends to widen the gap between players in the game, making the gameplay way more satisfying for dedicated players.


I think that's saying something I dunno.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
How similar is slayer to his #reload version? Can he still do backdash cancels?

Like what was answered, yes, he still has BDC. He's pretty similar to this one. Some differences are Undertow looking different, Dandy Step into HS has this jump crossup looking follow up (iirc he had no HS followup in #R). RC opens up some things for him. Mappa Punch RC into Dandy Step K works (or Dust).

I can't help you with what his optimal combos are in #R (besides Bite Loops which aren't in). I just mostly know him from AC and watching Xrd vids.

Edit: 4r5 definitely has you covered there.
 

4r5

Member
Can you list them? I cant find reload combos anywhere other than like 3 posted on srk

Slayer combos were really (really) basic in #reload. His most complicated stuff was 2-hit air super setups.

The nuance to playing Slayer was how you baited people. Or, atleast that's how he was suppose to be. Instead we got Bite xN.

on counter hit:
CH Mappa, K>Mappa
near CH 2H, walk forward, c.S-f.S>jc air combo
midscreen CH 6P, iad.H, land, c.S-f.S>jc air combo
far/meaty CH 2D, c.S-f.S>jc air combo

optimal air combo
...j.K-S(1)-K>dj.K-S(1)-K-D
end in jump Dust for knockdown, or replace with 214K (Footloose Journy/Magic Carpet Ride) for damage.

on crouching hit:
c.S-f.S, c.S-f.S>Mappa

on air hit:
raw or launcher... 6H>PDandyStep>PileBunker>RC repeat till out of meter.

50% meter:
...Mappa>RC H>PDandyStep>PileBunker
far CH 2H, 632146H (DoT/Dead on Time)
2D>RC, H>jc air combo

Most/all of these should work in Xrd. In Xrd, he gets a couple new links and a few new chains.

PileBunker loops get more starters, now that RC has timeslow.

c.S-f.S loops work on standing, and I've seen three reps. And f.S links to K-2D for no meter knockdown.
 

fader

Member
Can you list them? I cant find reload combos anywhere other than like 3 posted on srk

if you have an hour, Koogy was teaching Gootecks how to play #Reload and Slayer, there is some valuable stuff in this video for playing Slayer if you are interested.

link
 

Rhapsody

Banned
I mostly used Lucina on the 3DS version just because I didn't trust myself landing tippers there.

On the Wii U, I pretty much switched back to Marth since there was little reason otherwise.
 

Kimosabae

Banned
I guess I read the in-game tip wrong. I thought it said her SS was at the tip, like Marth's used to be (and they changed Marth).

Plus, her run animation is Melee Marth's.


I'm also playing with gravity up.

If you can't tell I haven't played much, yet.
 

Onemic

Member
Slayer combos were really (really) basic in #reload. His most complicated stuff was 2-hit air super setups.

The nuance to playing Slayer was how you baited people. Or, atleast that's how he was suppose to be. Instead we got Bite xN.

on counter hit:
CH Mappa, K>Mappa
near CH 2H, walk forward, c.S-f.S>jc air combo
midscreen CH 6P, iad.H, land, c.S-f.S>jc air combo
far/meaty CH 2D, c.S-f.S>jc air combo

optimal air combo
...j.K-S(1)-K>dj.K-S(1)-K-D
end in jump Dust for knockdown, or replace with 214K (Footloose Journy/Magic Carpet Ride) for damage.

on crouching hit:
c.S-f.S, c.S-f.S>Mappa

on air hit:
raw or launcher... 6H>PDandyStep>PileBunker>RC repeat till out of meter.

50% meter:
...Mappa>RC H>PDandyStep>PileBunker
far CH 2H, 632146H (DoT/Dead on Time)
2D>RC, H>jc air combo

Most/all of these should work in Xrd. In Xrd, he gets a couple new links and a few new chains.

PileBunker loops get more starters, now that RC has timeslow.

c.S-f.S loops work on standing, and I've seen three reps. And f.S links to K-2D for no meter knockdown.

Wow, thanks! Ya his combos seem really straightforward, a whole lot easier than his advanced combos in AC. c.S>f.S also seems easier to link than in AC as well.

if you have an hour, Koogy was teaching Gootecks how to play #Reload and Slayer, there is some valuable stuff in this video for playing Slayer if you are interested.

link

Thanks for this as well. Will watch
 
he hates Xrd. He doesn't agree with the changed from +R to Xrd. What I gather is that he loves Accent Core so that might be the main driver to him not liking Xrd.

He lays out pretty clearly why he dislikes Xrd in his posts on dustloop, it's not just because the game isn't Accent Core.

Mike Z said:
My E3 Xrd impressions: (feel free to ask questions and whenever I come back next I'll look)
- I'll say this on the positive side: the game is absolutely BEAUTIFUL. Like holy-crap-is-this-real beautiful. There are some rough edges, but in matches you don't notice at all.
- It certainly does feel slower than AC+R, noticeably slower. Likely this is due to longer hitstop? since the individual actions themselves didn't feel slower. I had to slow down my button press timing for Potemkin P->K->S->2D, for example.
- YRCs are the least Guilty-Gear-ish thing you could add to a Guilty Gear. They singlehandedly took the game from making good reads and knowing their character well in order to win to "just throw stuff out" and "oh oops, YRC" which is incredibly un-fun. Not to mention the burst-safe OS junk. Even in the Versus games you can't cancel to NEUTRAL on whiff, only to riskier attacks.
- Watching cinematics each time you do a super got old pretty quick, and the camera cuts on Dusts and on the KO hit are very jarring while playing. At least to me.
- The lack of force breaks and newer moves that had unique utility makes characters feel...flat. I'll admit to not really being excited for them when they were added originally, but going back to not having them after this long, when the newer added moves don't cover the same holes in characters' movesets, feels stale. [edit] Because Force Breaks cost meter they were able to have properties or strengths that you just can't give to a meterless special attack.

My takeaway:
I have absolutely no desire to play this game. Zero. I came away with the same impression I got from MvC3 - "Well, that's enough of that game." And I don't mean because Pot is awful*, I've played Pot since the beginning regardless so I can lose 25 in a row no sweat. :^P
It just...doesn't feel like a Guilty Gear to me. (More like a GG fan game? I guess that's pretty harsh.) It's a huge regression for the series, like the creators didn't play anything after #r. Whether or not #r is where GG started from, for the last eight years "Guilty Gear" has meant AC, and on the whole I think the series made a lot of positive strides. Things like choosing between damage or knockdown kinda don't seem to exist in Xrd, you get both. The addition of the random element in Danger Time, Hell Fire making you do absurd damage, or the seemingly complete absence of Tension Pulse encouraging willy-nilly meter use are just so backward for GG.
It's like Capcom deciding to make MvC3 and base it off XMen: Children of the Atom, or people wanting to play World Warrior instead of ST. It's great for laughs, but it's not something I would choose to play when the alternative is available. Heidern98 could come back from another universe and challenge me to matches and I'd say no. (Unless he wanted to play some AC+R, that is. :^)
 

Anne

Member
Mike Z has a reputation in the anime community for holding strong negative opinions of anything that doesn't belong in a retirement home.
 
Mike Z has a reputation in the anime community for holding strong negative opinions of anything that doesn't belong in a retirement home.

I mean for a while he was pretty much the only relevant North American Tager player in BlazBlue and at least with respect to his opinions on YRC I don't think you can call his criticism off base.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
I glazed over a lot of the YRC stuff while it was out in arcades, but playing the demo myself, I'm pretty appalled at how many different ways there are to get you out of sticky situations by dumping meter which you also gain so damn fast. Not nearly knowledgeable enough to comment on this (nor have I watched competitive footage), but it really looks like the game will be a mess in terms of how fast momentum can switch.

As some may know I have a deep seeded hatred for combo breakers, but the game proper is still a lot of fun IMO. Really fell in love with some of the character designs bouncing through arcade.
 

Kimosabae

Banned
I
so i'm guessing you won't be playing any tournaments

Nah, I couldn't develop enough passion for a game like this to withstand hyperactive college kids for an entire day at a tournament venue. Not unless it developed into something crazy.

It's great for messing around with my cousin on Sunday evenings, though, which is a huge step up from Brawl. My cousin wears velcro sneakers, he's so uncoordinated, and he hated Brawl. He like this game so far, though.

But yeah, people should explore high-gravity. I can't imagine playing the game default at this point, it feels terrible.
 
Good to see some gaffers playing Smash Wii U. Toss me a franz' list invite when you get a chance! Semi-competitive, mostly going from stuff I know in the older ones. Running Link (main)/DK/Peach, in order of actual ability. Also mess with Charizard/Tink/Mario/Doc/Ness (hooray for never learning). Mega Man is kinda fun though.

NNID is Hi_Im_Sasa. Probably won't ever play any more tourneys, but being spoiler/pretending to be good? ALL DAY
 
Sasa, my NNID is Karsticles. Add me.

I am thinking about investing in a new fight stick with the release of Xrd. I can't wait until Christmas. :X
 

Rhapsody

Banned
I mostly agree on his YRC comments. I know going back to Reload is a thing some people have problems with.

Personally I wish it built off of AC, but I feel like going back to Reload is still at least going back to some form of Guilty Gear, instead of something totally weird. This is what happened to Marvel 3, and I couldn't really get into it. I'm pretty accepting of this mostly in hopes of it getting more complex as it goes on and to draw more players.

I didn't find AC that complicated, imo. It's just that most people jumped to a complex game and think they can jump to higher level play while skipping the foundation. So I'm hoping going back to Reload doesn't end up in vain.
 

fader

Member
He lays out pretty clearly why he dislikes Xrd in his posts on dustloop, it's not just because the game isn't Accent Core.

The only criticism that I can really see here of any value is the YRC. Mostly all his criticisms here stems from the fact that he is use to +R/Accent Core series. It's like a 3rd strike player complaining about SF4. Daisuke have stated that this is to be a rebirth of the series so the game is going to feel dramatically different from +R when all they could do was update #Reload after loosing the license. I mean, their is a reason why they said this game is based of #Reload.

I glazed over a lot of the YRC stuff while it was out in arcades, but playing the demo myself, I'm pretty appalled at how many different ways there are to get you out of sticky situations by dumping meter which you also gain so damn fast. Not nearly knowledgeable enough to comment on this (nor have I watched competitive footage), but it really looks like the game will be a mess in terms of how fast momentum can switch.

As some may know I have a deep seeded hatred for combo breakers, but the game proper is still a lot of fun IMO. Really fell in love with some of the character designs bouncing through arcade.

naaaa... Because yes, there is a lot of defensive options in GG but their is way more offensive options.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Mike Z talked about some Marvel 2 system mechanics at SuperArcade.
The fine line between "unplayable" and "playable" in MVC2 is well documented here.

The game is so broken that inherent broken mechanics/bugs in the game allow you to deal with other broken stuff in the game making the game playable. Like MikeZ said, if you couldn't do push block guard cancel then Spiral/Sentinel would be god and you will never get to play.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Oh fuck I completely forgot about thread titles. Sorry guys, been working on some applications.

Vote until midnight or whenever I get the thread up.
 
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