pixelation
Member
I agree, i'd need to see who they put in charge of the MG franchise after Kojima is gone. And i highly doubt that they'll make any new ZOE, Silent Hill or Castlevania games, i honestly can't say that i'll miss them...
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Konami's new CEO: Mobile is the future of gaming, is Konami's main platform
- Thread starter HGH
- Start date
I agree, i'd need to see who they put in charge of the MG franchise after Kojima is gone. And i highly doubt that they'll make any new ZOE, Silent Hill or Castlevania games, i honestly can't say that i'll miss them...
silvermember
Banned
Chû Totoro;163976590 said:
Companies do not forever grow, nobody realistically expects that. At some point companies once they cannot grow any further changes focus. Example IBM, IBM smartly realize that future margins for PC would be too small and decided to spin off its PC hardware business and eventually sold it off. Now IBM is stronger than ever.
Apple also realize that it PC section wasn't going to ever overtake windows based PC and decided to smartly become a electronics company NOT Mac company. They still make Mac but most of their profits come from i-shit, now they have 600 billion dollars to do whatever they want. They can afford to stall a few years to find a new focus while i-shit starts to decline.
It amounts to as much as anyone who plays and covers games in the games media does. He's a games journalist. In fact, at one point, he was the ONLY person actively trying to cover some of Konami's games. They responded by blacklisting him.
"Consolidated", and Hudson Soft was dissolved. Konami "bought the IPs"... and has not once used almost any of them. We've never received a new Bloody Roar, Mystical Ninja, Bonk, or countless others since. The team had only lost a few people; after the "consolidation", practically ALL of them jumped ship to Nintendo. But they were doing very well before Konami fully acquired them.
They were mediocre... but not outright awful. That doesn't excuse them not even telling people the games were OUT. No press release. No announcement. Even their social media was silent on that. Friggin' Twitter and Facebook are FREE and they didn't even bother to use that to get word out.
Trust me, the list is extensive and exhaustive, from rushed, broken ports, scamming creators, artists, and voice actors out of pay, failures of marketing their games effectively, mismanaging their talent, driving away creators and developers, blacklisting journalists, trying to censor criticism, losing their games' source codes, opulent spending habits, misreading market trends, and abusing employees with unreasonable demands and abandoning IPs and franchises at the first sign of trouble, the company has been an utter disaster for the better part of a decade now.
The cost of console games is but one of MANY problems that have driven them out of gamers' good graces.
"If they can't have some of the money, they'd rather have none of it."
A good game, made effectively and efficiently, marketed well, promoted well, can have a great ROI.
Konami has simply failed to make good games, to make them efficiently, to market them well (if at all), to promote them, and thus they have only THEMSELVES to blame.
But it's so much easier to just say it's the fault of consoles, and not their previous ten years of poor performance.
That's ESPECIALLY true on PC, where many companies have recently begun to release games on and discovering an audience there for their games they neglect entirely before. I mean, what's the last PC Konami game you heard of, eh? Hard to get a good ROI when you don't even put games out on that platform.
I'd be fine with mobile being the future of gaming if they didn't use disgusting tactics to draw money from consumers and fuck up the core experience of the games.
Konami will be especially good at this with all they've learned from their experience in the gambling industry.
Konami will be especially good at this with all they've learned from their experience in the gambling industry.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Really it wouldn't be so bad if Konami would sell off the IPs.
I'd much rather some other company buy Silent Hill, Castlevania, etc and give them a console release instead of whoring those IPs out for mobile games and slot machines.
I'd much rather some other company buy Silent Hill, Castlevania, etc and give them a console release instead of whoring those IPs out for mobile games and slot machines.
I don't think that is true. Making a good game is not a guarantee of success, or that they will continue to pursue that area when they see and have greater successes else where
Triggerhappytel
Member
Konami, this is for you
Man, this really tickled me. Why are there so many gifs of Martin Freeman giving the finger on the set of The Hobbit?
On topic, we all knew it was coming and I'd be lying if I pretended to care. The only thing about this that bothers me is that I remember an ad from the early PS2 days and it had box shots for about 8 or 10 Konami games like MGS2, Zone of the Enders, Pro Evo and Ring of Red, and it said they were the biggest supporters of the console. Looking back at that juxtaposed with their attitude now just seems tragic.
Xbox was pretty off the shelf (PS4 and Xbox One aren't totally custom either), they are consoles. Wii wasn't playing a tech arms race (and neither is Wii U really) but they are consoles. The most meaningful differentiator I can see is the inclusion of a standard controller and the ability to load software physically but considering dual analog became a standard of sorts and digital being heavily prevalent I don't know that those are overly meaningful either.
And while certainly the philosophical ideas have changed that's not new either. Every console this gen released with media functionality, web browsers, streaming services and a renewed interest in TV apps. That's not so much different. Even "traditional" consoles aren't that "traditional." Valve's steam machines on the other hand are much closer to the type of beastly game-focused powerboxes we've come to expect from "traditional" consoles.
I also forgot nvidia but I don't think anyone expects much out of them. But to say that interest is waning on consoles doesn't seem to reflect the reality of the situation. What a "console" is, is evolving as we borrow software and platforms from mobile and things become less proprietary.
that is a rather optimistic lifespan you give the ps4 and ps5.
I'm going to use this specific post as an example of the filter being applied here, but I want to make it clear that you aren't the only one to do this, Pilgrim, nor do I think your post is particularly bad. It just highlights the lense through which most people seem to be looking, and it's that lense I want to examine.
You want a company to "give [these games] a console release" rather than "whoring [these games] out for mobile." The implication here is obvious; consoles represent quality, real gaming, while mobile is not only worse, but is just a cynical money grab.
What I want to propose is that mobile is not better or worse, it's just different, with its own strengths and weaknesses. It happens to be different in a way that doesn't fit your personal tastes, but that's different than it being inherently inferior. We don't always get what we want.
You know how many console players feel rubbed the wrong way when PC gamers act superior to console gamers, and act like games that make any concessions for a console release are somehow infected and lesser? That's how many of you sound right now. So if you don't like it when PC gamers do it to you, I suggest you try to avoid doing it back to someone else. I'm not asking you (or anyone here) to change their personal preferences, but I would like it if people didn't get so angry at others for liking things they don't like.
silvermember
Banned
wow a game journalist that totally means something, right? Hudson overall wasn't doing well before Konami bought them. Secondly none of those IP you listed at big IP, they have name recognition but they are not big IP, they don't sell million copies. Big companies cannot afford to partake in investments with small returns.
Companies all the time misread market trends, that is why history is full of bankrupted companies.
it doesn't change the facts, their primary market is dead. The only two major IP (aka million copies sellers) are MGS and PES. MGS is one in a few year seller, PES is completely dominated by FIFA. Only those two games can sustain them but every other quarter between those two release, it would be a lost had they not started to diversify.
Assuming what you said is true that all these gamers decided to team up and punish konami, doesn't that support Konami's case that it is better to simply leave the market?
dream
Member
The main difference I would point to is the horsepower of the CPUs and GPUs. Microsoft and Sony use the best possible technology that allows them to still meet their price target. They have to; their consoles operate on principles that privilege gaming over everything. Apple, Google, and Amazon largely use cheaper and less powerful ARM SoCs because their boxes don't need to be on the bleeding edge of graphics and computational power.
To your point, I don't think the box under the TV is dying. But I think gaming consoles are because they're asking consumers to spend several hundred dollars on a device that specializes in something of dubious value when compared to, say, an Amazon Fire TV or some other media box that can also play games.
Whatever works for you, buddy.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
What's that Konami? You don't want me? Well I don't want you.
You can pack up all your shit and get out of here and go be with those mobile gamer whores, because do you think they'll put up with all your shit like I did? No way, they're going to dump your ass for a sexier younger publisher, and when it happens you can forget about coming crawling back to me. I've got a new publisher I've been buying from on the side anyway! You didn't know about that did you!
And all those times you thought I enjoyed your games? I faked it. every. single. time.
You can pack up all your shit and get out of here and go be with those mobile gamer whores, because do you think they'll put up with all your shit like I did? No way, they're going to dump your ass for a sexier younger publisher, and when it happens you can forget about coming crawling back to me. I've got a new publisher I've been buying from on the side anyway! You didn't know about that did you!
And all those times you thought I enjoyed your games? I faked it. every. single. time.
silvermember
Banned
Console gaming will not exist past the next 2 generations. That is why Sony has been working on PSNow which represents a possible disruptive technology for Sony.
Sooner or console gaming is going to need to crash really had. Companies spend too much money making games and that barrier of entry is too big to overcome. Mobile games the barrier of entry is significantly smaller.
Pyramid head
Banned
I'd kind of like to think that person doesn't actually exist. In my mind, the general audience for mobile games doesn't really care all that much one way or the other whether these games exist or not. They're just a very disposable convenience which they could easily walk away from whenever something else comes along.
Well, yes, I can understand why you would like to think that. The evidence doesn't really support that, however, unless you think the enormous and still rapidly growing revenue that mobile gaming produces is generated exclusively by people who don't really care that much.
People like things you don't like; and dislike things you do like; it happens.
Robottiimu2000
Member
Sorry, nope.. Mobile is way too unpredictible for secured profits. We've yet to see even one company to really make it beyond a market fluke on the mobile business.
This is some new scheme some corporate heads have thought to be easy solution for big money, who probably have no clue of games, that will back fire in way that Konami = no more.. They are going in way too deep...
CharminUltra
Member
Pretty sure the PS9 has already been confirmed. There was a commercial for it even.
So at 10 year lifespan each that'd be what, 40+ more years on top of that?
If only they could just sell off their intellectual properties... I don't expect to be playing any mobile versions of Contra, Castlevania, Metal Gear, Silent Hill, etc.
Such a shame as well, they used to make some of the best side scrolling beat 'em up games, namely the Ninja Turtles games and Sunset Riders. Sad to see what has become of companies like Konami, Capcom and SEGA. These names ruled the early 90s.
Such a shame as well, they used to make some of the best side scrolling beat 'em up games, namely the Ninja Turtles games and Sunset Riders. Sad to see what has become of companies like Konami, Capcom and SEGA. These names ruled the early 90s.
JordanN
Banned
Every Playstation has lived for 10 years. Even longer in some cases.
Given PS4 and PS5 support the internet, both consoles will be able to extend themselves longer thanks to updates.
UberTag
Member
Maybe they'll put it on mobile, make it free and sell a whole bunch of hats and designer cardboard boxes. Then they'll support it.
Even using this math, the PS4 launched in 2013. While it may last for ten years, it will be replaced before then. Let's be generous and assume that the manufacturers will wait 7 years before replacing their boxes again, so the PS5 will launch in 2020. If we assume it will last 10 years without a successor (since that's the premise we're going under), this would end the PS4's effective life in 2030.
Fallout-NL
Member
Well, it happened with the Wii. The only difference is that this audience will always have their phones and tablets.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
I truly do not want to support ANYTHING with Konami now... but fucking MGSV man... I can't say no to MGSV.
It's more or less the same audience -- the Wii audience didn't die, they just left consoles and moved to mobile/tablets because Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo were not serving their needs very well.
And that's basically the only way I could see mobile/tablets dying; if something even better than them comes out and does their job better and cheaper.
JordanN
Banned
I don't expect there to be a definite cut off point in 2030.
Even if all AAA publishers completely jump ship to mobile by then, there would still be 80 million or more PS4/PS5's in the wild. The platform wouldn't have to die at that point, but still be served by remaining enthusiast developers or first party.
Pilgrimzero
Member
I have played some good mobile games, but really I can't think of one at the top of my head. Um... board games. Had fun with those on the Ipad.
And lets face it, some games just play better on a console and or PC. I'd never want to play a fighting game on the ipad. But I can see how maybe an RPG with touch controls would work OK.
Silent Hill and Castlevania wouldn't work on a mobile device. Even a big one like an Ipad. Though I suppose in years to come they can start to make attachable controllers more of a thing.
I guess that's my beef. Controls. That and library. hhmm
And they have to make them legitimate games not nickel and dime me to death garbage.
silvermember
Banned
But unlike the wii, they always have their tablets and smartphones. One or both of those things have become mandatory in this digital age.
The beauty of mobile gaming is how quick you can play and continue doing stuff. Console gaming requires huge stretches of time, while a mobile games are design to be quick and easy. They also can be played everywhere.
Shinjuku108
Neo Member
For some reason, this news sparked a wave of nostalgia for me. I guess I'll miss the days of seeing that Konami logo light up from the left to right on the games I grew up with back in the SNES and PS1 days. Back when things were more simple. Legend of Mystical Ninja, Super Castlevania and Symphony of the Night just to name a few.
Similar to when Robin Williams passed away, this news officially makes Konami dead to me and with that, another piece of my childhood lost forever.
Similar to when Robin Williams passed away, this news officially makes Konami dead to me and with that, another piece of my childhood lost forever.
Mechanized
Member
Mobile will never be taken seriously until they pack a controller in with phones. Some companies have hit it big, but notice how they're pretty much all virtual unknowns when it comes to the history of gaming. Banking on mobile seems like one of the most dangerous proposistions right now. There will always be a market, but hoping whales gravitate to your "free" to play bullshit seems unwise.
I understand what you are trying to say in the first part but that does neglect Wii and Wii U which are unquestionably "consoles" by any definition. That cannot be an accurate read of what a console is. Rather, I think there is a special legacy that affords the word "console" and it carries a privileged meaning to gamers. Nintendo is one such company that carries this and if they released a $100 box running Android and an ARM chip I don't think people would call it by another word.
Um, yes? I don't know why you think game journalists mean nothing for some reason, especially when they (especially the one I mentioned) can be one of the most important branches of marketing and spreading awareness and interest in games out to the general public.
Um, yes, they absolutely can. In fact, that's how Hollywood has worked for nearly a century. They have massive million-dollar movies... but also small, art-house and indie films on the side. You will almost never find a billion-dollar movie studio exclusively doing blockbusters. Disney does everything from Avengers and Pixar movies to small movies like Saving Mr. Banks or Million Dollar Arm.
In fact, Nintendo is an example of a game studio that does the same. Sure, you get a big-budget game like Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros., or Twilight Princess, but it's sandwiched between smaller-budget titles like Pushmo, Pikmin, and Codename: STEAM.
You can't tell me Konami has to ONLY do games that need to sell 7 million copies to justify their existence. Remember when Dark Souls sold "only" 1 million copies and their creators celebrated how successful it was? Remember when Nintendo sold "only" 500,000 copies of Xenoblade and proudly stated it exceeded all their expectations?
My god, having reasonable budgets with reasonable expectations. How can this BE?!
And that's the point; who's to say that Konami putting all their eggs into mobile, pachinko, and casinos while burning every bridge to consoles and handhelds isn't a similarly poor decision? If their new market doesn't pan out, they just burned up their safety net. It would be like if Nintendo had nothing to fall back on after the Virtual Boy flopped.
Off course their primary market is dead outside MGS and PES... because they stopped making everything BUT MGS and PES. I the past three years, the only console games they released were MGS, PES, and Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2. That's it. Once again, you can't make money off of hypothetical Zone of the Enders or Suikodens or Bombermans or Bloody Roars if you don't actually MAKE them. Unused IPs don't make any profit.
so what do we have now? sega and konami are going all in on the mobile scene (well, aside from atlus, i guess). capcom and square enix are trying to balance mobile success with console success but tilting towards mobile. koei tecmo and bandai namco are kind of the only big third-party japanese companies in the dedicated (i hesitate to use 'traditional' these days) space. everything else are teeny-tiny publishers that are trying to strike out on nintendo (furyu, masaya) or stragglers attempting to support the nearly-gone sony environment in japan with hopes they can match japanese sales worldwide (idea factory, nis).
now you have nintendo going in on mobile, and they're really the only first-party to be making a big deal about mobile from an internal development standpoint. the generation starting with nx, we'll probably be left with hardware doing 13-16m units, and maybe sony can squeak out about 4m with ps5 (a marked decrease from the 34-35m units of hardware that might be sold in the current generation).
in the us, japanese companies aren't really finding that much success on playstation anymore either. it's on steam. sega matched ps3 sales of valkyria chronicles with a port that came years later, with no inventory to manage, and platform and manufacturing costs rolled into valve's 30%. beyond that, idea factory is finding success on this platform. so is nihon falcom.
and this has an effect on the console market in the us and europe too. less variety leads to a smaller userbase, which is great for bigger publishers wanting a predictable userbase, but bad for growth and eventually, budgets and roi. western studios are also preparing their exits from the space. wb has wb play, ea has origin and ea access, ubisoft has their own thing too.
for people who are fans of dedicated hardware, i think they can hope on two things. one, a piece of hardware comes from nowhere and redefines the space in a way that you have to make games for it. unfortunately, hardware makers seem increasingly adverse to this level of thinking, tepidly rolling out ideas in the forms of peripherals and never giving them the budget and faith they need to properly get off the ground. the other option is that as dedicated hardware fades, it will be kept around as an option for hobbyists. you can see it happening already with retro vgs.
the industry is changing rather drastically, perhaps the most it has in 30 years. in a way it's sad. it's hard to let go of things you like. but in another way, it's exciting. though seemingly limiting now, who knows what might come from a hardwareless future?
now you have nintendo going in on mobile, and they're really the only first-party to be making a big deal about mobile from an internal development standpoint. the generation starting with nx, we'll probably be left with hardware doing 13-16m units, and maybe sony can squeak out about 4m with ps5 (a marked decrease from the 34-35m units of hardware that might be sold in the current generation).
in the us, japanese companies aren't really finding that much success on playstation anymore either. it's on steam. sega matched ps3 sales of valkyria chronicles with a port that came years later, with no inventory to manage, and platform and manufacturing costs rolled into valve's 30%. beyond that, idea factory is finding success on this platform. so is nihon falcom.
and this has an effect on the console market in the us and europe too. less variety leads to a smaller userbase, which is great for bigger publishers wanting a predictable userbase, but bad for growth and eventually, budgets and roi. western studios are also preparing their exits from the space. wb has wb play, ea has origin and ea access, ubisoft has their own thing too.
for people who are fans of dedicated hardware, i think they can hope on two things. one, a piece of hardware comes from nowhere and redefines the space in a way that you have to make games for it. unfortunately, hardware makers seem increasingly adverse to this level of thinking, tepidly rolling out ideas in the forms of peripherals and never giving them the budget and faith they need to properly get off the ground. the other option is that as dedicated hardware fades, it will be kept around as an option for hobbyists. you can see it happening already with retro vgs.
the industry is changing rather drastically, perhaps the most it has in 30 years. in a way it's sad. it's hard to let go of things you like. but in another way, it's exciting. though seemingly limiting now, who knows what might come from a hardwareless future?
I think console controls are "garbage;" they have too few buttons for many games and it is widely agreed that FPS control less accurately and allow for less precision than Mouse/Keyboard do.
What now? Should I bemoan the existence of consoles and the evil infection they've caused in gaming? Or should I recognize that different people have different tastes and it's okay if others are willing to sacrifice some input precision for convenience?
Beelzebufo
Banned
I'd love this too, but it's really too big an IP for Konami to give up. Bomberman's Explosive Jackpot Slot Machine and Bomberman Bombs-Away! for iOS and Android mobile devices will really take in cash from fans of the Bomberman series of games while also taking advantage of an expansive new audience.
Not a fair comparison. There are plenty of genres that work better on console than PC, and even shooters on consoles are more playable than something like Bioshock iOS. The difference between your example and mobile reality is huge.
It's easy to see why people would be upset that games like MGS and Castlevania, which aren't suited for mobile gaming like certain series (Ace Attorney) are might only end up on mobile platforms.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Can we all agree at least that Konami dropped the ball big time by letting this massively bad PR come out right before their biggest, most expensive, riskiest videogame ever is about to come out?
Keeping the lid on this Kojima drama and admitting Silent Hills should've been of upmost importance before MGSV came out.
For this and countless other reasons is that I agree that Konami is just bad at business. Videogame business.
Keeping the lid on this Kojima drama and admitting Silent Hills should've been of upmost importance before MGSV came out.
For this and countless other reasons is that I agree that Konami is just bad at business. Videogame business.
silvermember
Banned
You mean mobile games will never be taken seriously by core gamers, but who said they cared about what you wanted?
The mobile gaming industry does not particular care if the core gamers hate mobile gaming, it doesnt affect them AT ALL. Right now they are 2 billion smartphone users in the world, I sincerely doubt they are that many core gamers in the world.
Learn to accept that mobile gaming is not neccessarily trying to appeal to core gamers and vice versa, it makes life easier for yourself.
The bolded part is a meaningless statement, there is always risk involve in every decision you make in business, it could save you like it saved IBM or it could fail like it did to Kodak. There is risk in every business decision.
I doubt it. People are going to buy the game because the like MGS and Kojima not because of Konami. I doubt the market at large will remember or care when the game comes out. Gaf might, but Gaf is very isolated from the real world.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Yeah, this whole thing and their petty incompetence (the BunnyHop thing lol) makes me doubt they'll be able to find success even in such lucrative markets.
Chû Totoro
Member
IBM and Apple made choices and they succeed. Maybe Konami will make a lot of profit and they'll be right at the end but once again I'm not sure mobile gaming market is the way to go for everyone and it's clearly not as good and easy as some want it to be. They failed in the console gaming market and they think they'll succeed on mobile gaming market, good luck to them. But yeah markets don't grow forever, it's the part when they're not viable anymore hence some companies trying something else. Konami just didn't made the right decision imo, mobile is a part of an expanding gaming market. Making games for both offering different but both enjoyable experiences is a better choice. Maybe it's their last chance since they don't seem to succeed in "classical" gaming products anymore (or not as much as they were hoping to). I don't have other numbers but in France in 2014 mobile gaming was only 6.3% of the global gaming expense (hardware, software, physical and digital).
Pyramid head
Banned
Oh, I know. I'd just like to believe it.
It is a fair comparison. There are genres that work better on mobile relative to console, as well (e.g. endless runners, many types of strategy games).
Console controls are really bad, and I honestly wish they didn't exist. There is a reason why virtually all competitive gaming is done on PCs. However, I recognize 1) not everyone agrees, and 2) even if you do, other people have different needs and the console controller is simpler and more convenient, which appeals to some people.
Apply the same thinking one step further down the chain.
The problem with mobile as I see it is not necessarily the shady practices (though thats one point of concern). It is that there are games being moved over that would otherwise be on consoles and have always been developed as such.
Mobile is fine to exist and build its own history and suite of popular games. It does that quite well. But its incredibly disappointing to see classic series become exclusive to a platform that can hardly cater to the quality (with respect to actually being playable on a controller and not a sausage touch screen) they are known for.
This is a very fair post but I just fail to see, without radical gameplay changes that most of their IPs can work on mobile. Whereas MGSV may have been on one extreme end of the spectrum when it came to budget and thus gameplay, mobile is on the other end where it will more than likely get a tiny budget and far more limited gameplay unless they make a game that demands a blue-tooth controller which I doubt.
I wouldn't mind seeing something like Metal Gear Acid 3 on mobile since I personally enjoyed the acid series and feel like its a great match for it but I would greatly mind if Acid 3 was pretty much Metal Gear from now on.
As long as Rising 2 miraculously gets released I guess I can move to the anger part before finally moving on to acceptance.
Beelzebufo
Banned
They're not though lol. They're worse than keyboard for certain genres, but a PC is terrible for something like a fighting game or platformer. Mobile devices simply cannot accommodate more complex games well, and unlike your PC example, where games are often available on both PC and consoles, this news certainly seems to indicate that Konami will be developing the simpler kind of games mobile hardware can accommodate. A port in that case would still result in a worse game for those people, because the more complex (complex being a stretch) games they enjoy aren't physically possible on mobile platforms.
I'm sorry, but it's completely different than not liking how Halo plays on console vs PC. Maybe if the only kind of Civilization games available were Civilation Revolution (or even worse, CivRev iOS), you'd have a point.
wait a sec,!
What happened to all of the "We woulld never develope for an underpowered console" and "For artistic reasons" quotes from last generation? Did reality step in? Remember when Konami, and other developers scoffed at wii and DS for years?
How are they 2 good to make a good 3DS game but will make a mobile? This industry is screwed!
What happened to all of the "We woulld never develope for an underpowered console" and "For artistic reasons" quotes from last generation? Did reality step in? Remember when Konami, and other developers scoffed at wii and DS for years?
How are they 2 good to make a good 3DS game but will make a mobile? This industry is screwed!
Alex_Mexico
Member
All competitive gaming is done on PC? Now that's just factually wrong.
And I'm sorry but you come across very badly by generalizing like that.
And mobile gaming is a much bigger threat to our traditional videogame business than consoles will ever be. Hell, I think many massve AAA games that play and look sublime on PC might've never been made in the first place if it wasn't because of the gargantuan installed base of consoles. Games like GTAV, for example.