It boggles my mind why everyone doesn't think like this. If you want this vast yet equally visually attractive game to run well and have decent IQ you have to pay for it. If you don't want to pay, something else has to give.
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Digital Foundry: The Witcher 3 patch 1.03 performance analysis (PS4/XB1)
- Thread starter bombshell
- Start date
It boggles my mind why everyone doesn't think like this. If you want this vast yet equally visually attractive game to run well and have decent IQ you have to pay for it. If you don't want to pay, something else has to give.
nelsonroyale
Member
If this game isnt CPU limited (which somebody on here said it apparently wasn't) I don't see why it would be dropping more on PS4 versus Xbone. The power difference should be enough to accommodate higher res (1080 vs 900) plus at least equal framerate. Probably better optimisation with DX11.
Either way, I think it performs pretty well on both systems given how ambitious it is. People up in arms, well we got the same thing with open world games last gen and worse...
Either way, I think it performs pretty well on both systems given how ambitious it is. People up in arms, well we got the same thing with open world games last gen and worse...
Caayn
Member
It's good to see the 30fps cap on the Xbox One doing its work.
Agreed, I understand that people want the best available with these $400 boxes. But there's only so much a dev can realistically do with the hardware available to them.
So true. With how fast tech progresses these consoles have already been left in the dust by PCs.
This will be one of the first games I play when I build my rig. Super excited for it!
I've been thinking about this, and since most of the drop situations seem like they are alpha blending related it could be a memory BW issue. If they use the esram very well, the XB1 could achieve only slightly worse overall BW compared to PS4, while only needing to render much fewer pixels.
Of course, the major reason for the average FPS differences between the versions right now is the fact that the PS4 apparently only double buffers its rendering.
Use triple buffering and drop the resolution on PS4. Seems like it would help a lot.
I do think frame-rate issues are exacerbated by the somewhat jerky animation and controls. Even at 60fps the game does not feel good to play at all.
Compared to something like a Souls game or Bloodborne (just in terms of character animation and movement) it feels really sub-par.
I do think frame-rate issues are exacerbated by the somewhat jerky animation and controls. Even at 60fps the game does not feel good to play at all.
Compared to something like a Souls game or Bloodborne (just in terms of character animation and movement) it feels really sub-par.
travisbickle
Member
This game on the PS4 only double buffers, or "the PS4" only double buffers?
And, er, what does that mean?
This game double buffers.
Basically means that if the frame rate drops below 30, it will go straight to a 20fps lock instead of somewhere in the middle.
This game on PS4. And it means that there are only two backbuffers for rendering, which means that for a 60 Hz output frequency, only 60, 30, 20, 15 etc. frames per second are possible.
Son Of Sparda
Member
And get 0xp.
It is some mad theory that has gained too much ground now, the game fluctuates all over the place in cutscenes, the ps4 seems to have low stutters that cause dips to 20, but this looks as common as 29,21,25,24 etc. Just seems to need some work, as NXgamer said in his video the games camera and animation is a big reason it can judder so much.
Well I can't enjoy it cause the framerate sucks so... Plus i'm sick of PC users giving the "well you bought a console game, you deserve bad performance" bs.
BrainZEROX
Member
Yeah, well. I'm not convinced yet. I'll wait for more PS4 patches. 6 months from now, the game will be as good as it is now and maybe rid out of its technical shortcomings. I definitely want to play the game but not the beta version. I'll buy it new though, I want CDPR to to get my money.
Summer Haze
Banned
No, people who aren't affected by these issues should go back to enjoying games. People who are affected by them should make noise, hope it gets fixed, and then hopefully join people like you in enjoying the game when/if it eventually gets fixed.
And we already know that a fix for the camera stuttering is coming in the next patch, and that they're looking into the framerate drops on PS4. So if everyone stopped caring about these things, like you suggest we must, then those issues wouldn't have been brought to the attention of the devs, and those fixes/investigations (which benefit everyone btw) might not have came. This is why comments like yours are so damn annoying and pointless.
It's not so much that it's deserved, but what do people realistically expect?
A game that doesn't drop to 20fps isn't so much to ask you know?
I find IQ very important. I hope they improve frame rate on both Xbox One and PS4 ( there's no winner here, both are shit in frame rate department). But I definitely don't want them to sacrifice IQ to achieve this. Code better CDPR and code fast, fix it!
The game looks and plays great on PlayStation 4, I'm not hyper sensitive to framerate issues, but I did notice it lower in the bog, and when using a torch at night in the city of Novigrad, and while I did notice it, it didn't alter my enjoyment of the game in the slightest.
I'm perfectly happy to play the game now and not in 6 months, and it's still a game of the year contender, for me.
I'm perfectly happy to play the game now and not in 6 months, and it's still a game of the year contender, for me.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
No, it's not. He'll get it cheaper and will have a better experience playing the game than someone who plays it at it's current state.
Cheaper yes, but performance boosts aren't always guaranteed. I think that's hat he meant.
Plus this game is worth waiting for. The performance spoils it but I honestly think it's one of the best RPGs i've played. Just don't want bad fps ruining that experience. If they can patch this I suggest waiting.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
30 fps locked minimum would do it.
Summer Haze
Banned
I'm in the 'waiting for a few more patches' camp. I pre-ordered the game based off how impressed I was with the 360 port of TW2, but I immediately noticed the camera stutter when I first started playing. Decided to shelve the game until a fix came, then I started reading about the awful framerate drops later on in the game, so now I'm gonna wait for those to be fixed too.
It's gonna suck waiting, but I've waited years for this game, I can wait a few more weeks.
It's gonna suck waiting, but I've waited years for this game, I can wait a few more weeks.
GHG
Member
GAF is not one person.
I have found that full right/left camera movement with the right stick has almost no stutter, whereas slow camera movements stutter like hell. It really is a strange bug, because logically it should be the opposite. It doesn't seem to be framerate related in any way.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Frame rate has always been the main reason I've been reluctant to buy a console, I'm very sensitive to drops and there's nothing you can do to fix it on console, whereas on PC I just tweaked 3 settings and I'm at 60fps without dips. I did order a PS4 yesterday though, but I'll always check Digital Foundry before buying anything because bad performance kills games for me, I would take worse IQ 100% of the time.
Unity does not run 30fps most of the time, whereas TW3 does. So I'd say there's still a noteworthy difference.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
It has nothing to do with the ps4 version running at 1080p resolution. The difference in raw power between xbox one/ps4 gpus is the same as the difference in number of pixels between 900p/1080p and both versions are running the same effects.
There is no reason besides bad development for the ps4 version to be running at a slower framerate.
Summer Haze
Banned
Yup, I found the same thing too. The stutters also doesn't occur if you only move the left stick, which makes Geralt run in circles and thus moves the camera.
It's not about what is deserved but what is realistic. Most PS4 owners are proud that the system's games mostly hit 1080P. But fuck anyone who suggest that a dev lowers the resolution or a few graphical effects to get a few more fps.
You seriously get what you paid for with the consoles and as others have said, there are always sacrifices to be made with weaker hardware.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
This game will have a stable frame rate along with all the other technical issues being ironed out when they are done patching it. It was rushed period.
I have reasonable expectations for games on console. The Witcher 3 fails right now.
thelastword
Banned
This is a bad PS4 conversion for many reasons, I can see areas where the PS4 outshines the XB1 in effects and weather (blims videos) but it seems that CDPR thought that the PS4 would just bruteforce it's way to glory here relative to it's GPU grunt.
The performance on PS4 is still bad in cutscenes........ cutscenes...? It falls to 18fps in the video. What exactly did 1.03 improve then. How is it that a worse GPU outperforms the PS4 in cutscenes, it does not make sense.
Why didn't DF do tests in the swamps then? looking at blims videos, the XB1 outperforms the PS4 in the swamps due to double buffered vsync, but why should that ever happen? This just shows that the PS4 got less attention and that the devs are less familiar with it's API.
There are so many issues pointed out with the consoles that just don't make sense, medium textures, lower than low AO and shadows on consoles, missing water shaders that even lowest PC setting has, slightly better water on XB1, abysmal loading of textures where ultra textures never exceed 1.8GB, yet the consoles are below ultra textures which means less VRAM than that, but it still loads like a slideshow. 5x higher load times on the consoles, it's ridiculous. I'm sure the similarity/familarity between the XB1 API and PC helps the XB here a bit, but it's still awful in all these aspects mentioned above.
Props to it's weather system, PBR shaders and it's image based lighting, but this is a technical mess on consoles, especially the PS4. There's no way CDPR or anyone can justify how better hardware does worse. This game deserved more time in the oven for consoles, if an onboard gpu can do ultra textures and load that in an instant, it simply puts this whole port into perspective.
PC got all the love here and then the XB1 to a lesser extent due to it's familiar API and of course the marketing deal they had with MS, ensured that the XB1 version had to be presented in a good light. Several patches on PS4 and things are still the same, cutscenes are still the same framerate, even gameplay has double-buffered vsync, it also means that this game needed another 6 months on consoles, primarily the PS4 to get the dev familiar with it's API. Listening to feedback from the devs, you get the feeling that CDPR does not even know where to look to fix the issues on PS4, that's how behind it seems to be.
The performance on PS4 is still bad in cutscenes........ cutscenes...? It falls to 18fps in the video. What exactly did 1.03 improve then. How is it that a worse GPU outperforms the PS4 in cutscenes, it does not make sense.
Why didn't DF do tests in the swamps then? looking at blims videos, the XB1 outperforms the PS4 in the swamps due to double buffered vsync, but why should that ever happen? This just shows that the PS4 got less attention and that the devs are less familiar with it's API.
There are so many issues pointed out with the consoles that just don't make sense, medium textures, lower than low AO and shadows on consoles, missing water shaders that even lowest PC setting has, slightly better water on XB1, abysmal loading of textures where ultra textures never exceed 1.8GB, yet the consoles are below ultra textures which means less VRAM than that, but it still loads like a slideshow. 5x higher load times on the consoles, it's ridiculous. I'm sure the similarity/familarity between the XB1 API and PC helps the XB here a bit, but it's still awful in all these aspects mentioned above.
Props to it's weather system, PBR shaders and it's image based lighting, but this is a technical mess on consoles, especially the PS4. There's no way CDPR or anyone can justify how better hardware does worse. This game deserved more time in the oven for consoles, if an onboard gpu can do ultra textures and load that in an instant, it simply puts this whole port into perspective.
PC got all the love here and then the XB1 to a lesser extent due to it's familiar API and of course the marketing deal they had with MS, ensured that the XB1 version had to be presented in a good light. Several patches on PS4 and things are still the same, cutscenes are still the same framerate, even gameplay has double-buffered vsync, it also means that this game needed another 6 months on consoles, primarily the PS4 to get the dev familiar with it's API. Listening to feedback from the devs, you get the feeling that CDPR does not even know where to look to fix the issues on PS4, that's how behind it seems to be.
If that happens it will come at the cost of other things. Whether resolution, or a drop in foliage and other performance costly geometry/textures/effects.
Which is probably what they should have done in the first place.
SolidChamp
Banned
And we STILL haven't received the update here in Asia. What the fuck GIVES?!
StrongBlackVine
Banned
1080p has not been shown to the cause of problems with any game. Should Xbox One drop to 720p as the first option when a game has performance issues?
dragonfart28
Banned
It's been shown that for budget PCs (which are essentially slightly more powerful than PS4) there is a significant performance improvement by dropping to 900p.
The advantage is also that many graphics enhancements can be made at this resolution.
They really should do this for the PS4 if it is hitting 20fps. That kind of drop is completely unacceptable and can actually cause input lag.
The advantage is also that many graphics enhancements can be made at this resolution.
They really should do this for the PS4 if it is hitting 20fps. That kind of drop is completely unacceptable and can actually cause input lag.
I do not understand why it is double buffered. Why would they do that?
If it is double buffered, any drop at all should drop to 20 fps. They don't need to drop the res to get rid of that kind of drop.
If it is double buffered, any drop at all should drop to 20 fps. They don't need to drop the res to get rid of that kind of drop.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Somehow resolution being the problem has become the go to suggestion. Weird when we have evidence that it is not the cause of the frame rate and other technical issues as you suggested. Add Dying Light to the list.
I think it's what people just need to learn to expect. It's like buying a mid range car, and expecting it to perform like a Ferrari. Then blaming the company that makes the roads
If they altered this, would this mean we'd have something like 30 > 29 > 25 > 27 > 24> 28 > 30, etc.
rather than 30 > 20 > 20 > 20 > 20 > 20 > 30?
Because I find the former much more preferable.