Mature? lol what?
Valid criticism never bothers me, even if I might disagree with it. But posts like this "Wow I'm dissapointed, the game looks really ugly. I was hoping to make this my first fallout game but I can't get myself to play a play something so bland looking, it looks like something that could've been done on the PS3." Do, because that's just a fucking dumb post. And this thread is full of shite like it. And that bums me out, yes. So sue me?
Those were actually the only parts I thought looked current gen. Most likely PC shots, well I hope they improve the graphics by the time they ship it out. No doubt they are seeing the public opinion on it.hey friend what about these bits?
SOLID SAMUS CLEAN UP AT AISLE 127!!!
Wow I'm dissapointed, the game looks really ugly. I was hoping to make this my first fallout game but I can't get myself to play a play something so bland looking, it looks like something that could've been done on the PS3.
You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance.
A Bethesda game has a massive amount of draw calls because almost every object is dynamic (meaning it is not baked into the environment thus saving draw calls).
Every single mesh that can be moved is a draw call and if they don't use texture atlasing then you can say that every single mesh is 2 draw calls (mesh and material). But wait then you have to add shadows which, depending on the method can add at least 1 more draw call.
So lets say they use texture atlasing for all the small objects. That still means that there are at least 2 draw calls per movable object. Remember that just about everything in the game can be moved (everything that isn't is likely batched into one big mesh to save on draw calls when possible).
Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.
Beyond that you also have the character and weapon (likely 10 draw calls) and any enemies which would be 4-10 draw calls each. Add into that the draw calls from outside the house which depending on LOD distance can balloon out into 2000+ easy if there is grass and trees.
Culling can help with some of the draw calls but it has its own performance cost.
Now with all of this we still haven't gotten to post processing, Textures sizes, AI, scripting, physics (Beth games have dynamic physics which eats the CPU like nothing), and the lighting engine.
Are there multiple lights in the house casting multiple shadows? Whelp if there are then you can go ahead and double your shadow draw calls.
Do you not see how a Beth style game balloons out into a performance nightmare?
How do other games look so good (Witcher 3)?
Well they use a hell of a lot of static assets that can be batched (combined in both mesh and texture) to vastly limit draw calls which allows them to have better "graphics". Ever notice how almost all loot in the witcher games is found in chests? Well, that is another way to limit draw calls, keeping dynamic objects off the map (lower draw calls, lower physics budget, ect).
People need to educate themselves on how games are made before they start frothing at the mouth over OMG bad graphics. Not every game has the same base, or even the same goals.
Man those city shots are fucking amazing. Can't wait.
That's a yes then, you do need validation for your hype.
Stop attacking people just because they disagree, they haven't attacked you because you are Ok with the current graphics, right?
just quoting for those who missed this.
That's a yes then, you do need validation for your hype.
Stop attacking people just because they disagree, they haven't attacked you because you are Ok with the current graphics, right?
hey friend what about these bits?
SOLID SAMUS CLEAN UP AT AISLE 127!!!
You do realize there are performance tradeoffs right? Look up draw calls in relation to performance.
A Bethesda game has a massive amount of draw calls because almost every object is dynamic (meaning it is not baked into the environment thus saving draw calls).
Every single mesh that can be moved is a draw call and if they don't use texture atlasing then you can say that every single mesh is 2 draw calls (mesh and material). But wait then you have to add shadows which, depending on the method can add at least 1 more draw call.
So lets say they use texture atlasing for all the small objects. That still means that there are at least 2 draw calls per movable object. Remember that just about everything in the game can be moved (everything that isn't is likely batched into one big mesh to save on draw calls when possible).
Walk into a house in FO:NV and you might find 50 objects you can mess with. Thats at bare minimum 100 but more than likely closer to 200 draw calls, then you have to take into account the draw calls the house itself and all the non movable objects that are not batched. The UI itself is probable 3 or more draw calls.
Beyond that you also have the character and weapon (likely 10 draw calls) and any enemies which would be 4-10 draw calls each. Add into that the draw calls from outside the house which depending on LOD distance can balloon out into 2000+ easy if there is grass and trees.
Culling can help with some of the draw calls but it has its own performance cost.
Now with all of this we still haven't gotten to post processing, Textures sizes, AI, scripting, physics (Beth games have dynamic physics which eats the CPU like nothing), and the lighting engine.
Are there multiple lights in the house casting multiple shadows? Whelp if there are then you can go ahead and double your shadow draw calls.
Do you not see how a Beth style game balloons out into a performance nightmare?
How do other games look so good (Witcher 3)?
Well they use a hell of a lot of static assets that can be batched (combined in both mesh and texture) to vastly limit draw calls which allows them to have better "graphics". Ever notice how almost all loot in the witcher games is found in chests? Well, that is another way to limit draw calls, keeping dynamic objects off the map (lower draw calls, lower physics budget, ect).
People need to educate themselves on how games are made before they start frothing at the mouth over OMG bad graphics. Not every game has the same base, or even the same goals.
I think I know a bit about how games are made and I can tell you that this post ignores concepts like occlussion, that you have a world full of dynamic objects doesn't mean that you are always rendering them or simulating them only the ones that the player can see. Any modern engine should also have batching (static and dynamic) so the draw calls are reduced. If Unity can pull it off then Bethesda should have an engine that can take advantage of that too.
Besides the problem is not the lack of lightmapping, the problems is that they are not even using modern shaders (PBR) so the models could look better with the illumination of the scene nor improved animations.
Do you know if they are using Unity? Or do you even know what engine they are using?
To be fair it still looks great in the 1080p version as well.
That's the point they have their own engine supposedly made to take advantage of next gen.
If Unity can have those features then Bethesda's engine should have them too.
That is the keyword. We don't know their new engine, nor what it can do. Supposedly they have been working on this game for 4 years (don't know if that is entirely true). Until we get more info on the engine, then it is best to not talk about it.
Why? they showed a trailer with in engine footage, am I not supposed to criticize what am I seeing?
There's a whole other thread to make speculations about the plot and gameplay, why can't there be also speculation about their technology too?
Because you don't know the engine, you can criticize all day long for all I care. But it falls upon deaf ears (and is baseless) when you have no clue what they are using or how their engine works.
why the hell DS goes to 4th place?
Does Amazon have PC sale right now?
That is the keyword. We don't know their new engine, nor what it can do. Supposedly they have been working on this game for 4 years (don't know if that is entirely true). Until we get more info on the engine, then it is best to not talk about it.
And it's GOAT.It's $5.
We do. It's fucking Gamebryo/Creation Engine. They will probably give it a new name, but it's still fucking Gamebryo.
Then why people keep posting Croatoan's post? does he knows the engine?
Or technical speculation is only good when it supports positive opinions?
We do. It's fucking Gamebryo/Creation Engine. They will probably give it a new name, but it's still fucking Gamebryo.
People tend to not educate themselves before they speak. It is the internet thing to do. Complain first until somebody calls you out and explains to you why you are wrong. Its tiresome, but unfortunately people are lazy and will not research themselves.
I think I know a bit about how games are made and I can tell you that this post ignores concepts like occlussion, that you have a world full of dynamic objects doesn't mean that you are always rendering them or simulating them only the ones that the player can see. Any modern engine should also have batching (static and dynamic) so the draw calls are reduced. If Unity can pull it off then Bethesda should have an engine that can take advantage of that too.
Besides the problem is not the lack of lightmapping, the problems is that they are not even using modern shaders (PBR) so the models could look better with the illumination of the scene nor improved animations.
But of course, unless any of us have insider information this is only amateur talk.
indeed. which is why i quoted that post.
this post only furthers that quote.
It's $5.
Damn, it finally happened
$79.99 preorders
He gave a very educated reply and explained what may be happening. You haven't. Unless I missed it (which I may have). He at least tried to explain what may be happening and why it may look the way it does, you said "Unity does this so why doesn't bethesda". So who am I suppose to side with here? The one who actually took the time to write out what may be happening, or somebody that said: X company does this, why doesn't bethesda?
He gave a very educated reply and explained what may be happening. You haven't. Unless I missed it (which I may have). He at least tried to explain what may be happening and why it may look the way it does, you said "Unity does this so why doesn't bethesda". So who am I suppose to side with here? The one who actually took the time to write out what may be happening, or somebody that said: X company does this, why doesn't bethesda?
Was this specifically said? Or are you basing this off rumors?
It wasn't specifically said, and it doesn't need to be. If those screens screamed Gamebryo anymore than they already do i'd be deaf. It's Gamebryo.
I gave my reasons: occlussion, batching, PBR and good animations. If you choose to not hear me because you don't like my opinion, fine but don't tell what I can't post or not.
There's no sides too. Stop feeling threatened by different opinions, people, we are all fans.