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LTTP: Fallout 3 (or why I made a huge mistake in playing this after New Vegas.)

fallout3.jpg


A week before the trailer reveal of Fallout 4, I decided I wanted to give Fallout 3 a proper shot. Disclaimer: I tried out F3 a couple of years before this playthrough. After completing a handful of side quests and making it to Rivet City, I prematurely ended that playthrough due to a frustrating amount of CTDs.

Anyway, after 64 hours of gradual play over these 3 weeks, I managed to complete the main story quest line, all the side quests in the Capital Wasteland (that don’t require you to be an evil prick) and all the DLC add-on’s quest lines.

I’m a huge fan of the Fallout series. Played the first 2 Fallout games to death and have played a lot of New Vegas (haven’t beaten that particular game yet, though.) So the things I heard about how Bethesda handled their contribution to the Fallout lore worried me to say the least. After giving this game a fair shot, I can honestly say that their effort wasn't half-bad at all. Granted the main quest took some suspension-disbelieving turns, I thought the world they crafted on the East Coast was pretty well done.

I’m not really good at elucidating my thoughts on stuff in paragraphs, so I’ll just list out all my feelings on my experience in bullet points.

The Good:


  • The world was well thought out, as expected from a Bethesda open world RPG. The Capital Wasteland was a more derelict and grim setting compared to the somewhat more structured and lively settings seen in the West Coast Fallout games. Bethesda did a good job in justifying why their world is a such a super mutant infested, uncivilized shithole.
  • Transition from isometric 2D turn-based strategy RPG to 3D FPS/Action-Adventure hybrid was handled pretty well. Still captured the feel that you’re playing a Fallout game. I’ll cover my views on VATS later.
  • Great amount of content to find on the vanilla game. Although it was a much lighter experience compared to previous Bethesda open-world RPGs, most of the side quests and unique locales were unique enough to make the game feel fresh.
  • The soundtrack is the best. I would argue that Inon Zur’s melodic and orchestrated approach to a Fallout game’s soundtrack is the best fit for the series compared to Mark Morgan’s more metallic(?) and ambient OST seen in the 2D games. Here are some of my favorite tracks:
  • The radio station songs are pretty nice too, I guess. Civilization (aka Bingo Bango Bango) is my jam even though it’s pretty racist lol.
  • Some really stand-out quests in this game. I already covered Tranquility Lane last week but I want to give special shout outs to quests like Stealing Independence, Blood Ties, The Replicated Man, The Superhuman Gambit, Trouble on the Homefront, and You Gotta Shoot ‘Em in the Head.
  • Quick comments on the DLC add-ons:
    • Operation Anchorage was great. A quick and simple diversion from the main game that was executed well. Lots of fun toys to play with at the end of that DLC. Chinese Stealth Armor the GOAT.
    • I enjoyed the Pitt. That twist at the climax of the quest line was pretty cool. The steelyard area is one of the most beautiful and well designed areas I've ever seen from a Bethesda developed game.
    • Broken Steel was OK. Not too many special stuff compared to the other add-ons but the extension to that main game was much appreciated. I pity anyone who had to deal with the vanilla game’s ending and having companions like Fawkes send you to your death for reasons.
    • Point Lookout is the best. The only expansion that gave you a huge world to explore and secrets to find. That’s what I wanted from these add-ons the most. It's kind of weird how those mutated inbred hicks can take so many plasma shots to the face before going down, though.
    • Mothership Zeta was brief but great experience. Some of the best visuals I’ve ever seen for a game. I’m almost flabbergasted how nice it looks compared to the rest of the game. It’s unfortunate how much of the DLC is locked out as you progress in it. Special mention to that final battle with the UFO-on-UFO combat.

The Bad:


  • VATS was an ambitious attempt of adding some of that turn-based RPG gameplay into a real-time action game, but it was implemented pretty terribly IMO. For one, it pretty much trivializes most risk in combat since all damage towards you during VATs is significantly reduced. You can pretty much cheese most encounters with the right weapons. I also don’t like how accuracy completely drops at long ranges or how VATs accuracy doesn’t consider high elevations in its calculation. Good luck trying to use VATS with sniper rifles in this game.
  • The loot game is pretty weak. There are at least a hundred different trash items that you can get in the thousands of containers scattered throughout the world but only a handful of them have any value even then it’s just so you can give it to a specific NPC and get a handful of caps, karma, or stimpacks for your trouble. The majority of rewards for most quests and the end of dungeons are pretty insignificant in the long run. I stopped scouring containers halfway into my playthough.
  • I really loathed exploring downtown DC and being forced to navigate through the copypasted subway systems and invisible walls to get where I want. I pretty much never willingly explored the downtown area as a result.
  • Besides Tranquility Lane and the last two quests, the main quest is the worst. Special mention to the guided action segments like when you have to go through like three dozen Super Mutants with the Brotherhood of Steel on the way to GNR station, and you’re subtly nudged into using a carefully Fatman against the Behemoth in the end of the segment. I really don’t enjoy my open-world games railroading me for that long, like during that long prologue sequence of your PC growing up.
  • The game suffers from that weird scaled leveling BS that was seen in TES: Oblivion. End-game enemies are scaled to always be bullet sponges long after you maxed your character and have the best gear. Some enemies were dishing and talking way too many damage for my tastes. Power armor is pretty much trash in this game because of this and how Bethesda implemented damage resistance and that super lame equipment condition system.
  • I don’t quite like how the player character is depicted as being this all-powerful savior/destroyer of the wastes. I know the other Fallout games went to this direction with their player character, but it just feels really weird to have all this praising/admonishing from Three-Dog and Ron Perlman being directed at this teenager.
  • I made the mistake of playing Fallout 3 after sinking my teeth into New Vegas, so I noticed all of the unrefined gameplay elements that Obsidian Entertainment fixed. Stuff like the more valuable perks, weapon repairing, VATS, crafting, the improved skill system, weapon mods, and hardcore mode.
  • Fuck the karma system.

That’s pretty much all I wanted to say. I have mixed feelings about the entirety of the game but I appreciated the attempt Bethesda made to revive this dead series. I hope they improve on the mistakes they made for Fallout 4 and at the same time takes note on how Obsidian handled New Vegas.

What do you think about Fallout 3, GAF?

 
It's a really unique and wonderful experience. I expect most in this thread will say things like "New Vegas is better" and "Fallout 3 is fine, it's just not a good fallout game".

I absolutely love it though, and it will always hold a special place in my heart.
 
I loved it in 2008. But yeah after New Vegas came out and did everything better (I do like the radio in 3 a bit more though), I just can't go back to it. I even tried last week and got much further than any recent replay, but I just can't do it. Hopefully Bethesda paid a lot of attention to what Obsidian did.
 

RP912

Banned
I been playing New Vegas lately and yeahhhhhhhh....Fallout 3 is kind of a mess looking back at it. It's still a good game though.
 

kamineko

Does his best thinking in the flying car
I really liked both of them a lot. The writing is pretty bad in 3, though, especially after New Vegas (and even worse after Witcher 3), but I was able to enjoy Fallout 3 in spite of this. I also agree that VATS is horribly imbalanced, and that the New Vegas adjustments were totally appropriate.

The scaling is horrible at high levels, just as you say, but honestly I had the same frustration with Old World Blues. I really wish I would have played it at a lower level. I had these never-ending fights with trash mobs--they'd just absorb massive criticals and keep going. Got really stale in both games, IMO

I hope Beth paid attention to the many things that Obsidian got right, and challenges themselves to do better. Can wait for the Beth conference!
 

chemicals

Member
New Vegas is amazing. FO3 not so much. I found it to be very hand-holdy and therefore way too easy. New Vegas is best. By a long shot.
 

Hollow

Member
Fallout 3 was my first Fallout game and I loved it. I enjoyed it more than the Elder Scrolls series which I also love. Just resonated with me more I suppose.

I went back and played 1 and 2 before New Vegas came out and can say it's one of my favorite series in gaming.

I'm hyped as all fuck for Fallout 4.
 
I still stand by Fallout 3 being my favorite of the two games, even though I do believe New Vegas is objectively better.

I think it's objectively better in most ways.

My thing is the atmosphere and setting in FO3 is just a thousand times better in my eyes than the environment of New Vegas. Which in these kinds of games is very important to me.
 
Not played the games before it, but this one was a real treat to play. Hated it at first, but was able to get into it the second time around. Lots of good memories. The DLC was also really fun to go through and it expanded the main game really nicely while bringing a good amount of variety to things. I also liked the setting and the world seemed more alive compared to NV's
I also liked that the story was more focused (I didn't like how towards the end of NV everything just kept branching off and off), but but with that said NV's story is IMO better written and more compelling.
 

vareon

Member
I prefer New Vegas to 3. The main difference for me is the companions. I vastly prefer NV's companions for some reason.
 

-MD-

Member
Hmm... I've only played Fallout 3 and thought it was alright, so many people said that was the best game in the series so I never really understood the rabid fanbase the series had.

I need to get around to playing this, I've owned it for years but haven't gave it a shot yet. Everyone is going nuts over the Fallout 4 news but I don't really care, maybe New Vegas will get me on board.
 
I only played a small amount of fallout 3 ages ago but definately want to play through it soon...it's sitting on the shelf ready once i beat arkham knight
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
New Vegas had better writing, but the desert was a terrible choice. I was bored out of my mind navigating through that shit

Fallout 3 had a much better and more interesting overworld, which is king in a open world game and radio stations are awesome compared to the lameness of having to listen to Wayne Newman or whatever the heck that aging rockabilly is called



so, Fallout 3 for me
 

antitrop

Member
I'm extremely surprised that you enjoyed Mothership Zeta.

A pure combat experience in a game with terrible shooting mechanics. Just running from generic spaceship room to spaceship room, sloppily shooting aliens with lame rayguns. Nope, couldn't even finish it.
 

BLunted

Banned
I still stand by Fallout 3 being my favorite of the two games, even though I do believe New Vegas is objectively better.

I feel the same. While Vegas was better from a story and gameplay mechanics point of view, however to myself, the star of open world games is the open world itself and I just found the Mojave to be a complete bore compared to the Capital Wasteland. Even with mods.
 
I'm extremely surprised that you enjoyed Mothership Zeta.

A pure combat experience in a game with terrible shooting mechanics. Just running from generic spaceship room to spaceship room, sloppily shooting aliens with lame rayguns. Nope, couldn't even finish it.

Yeah, I finished it, but Mothership Zeta was a painful experience for me. Didn't enjoy it at all.
 
I'm extremely surprised that you enjoyed Mothership Zeta.

A pure combat experience in a game with terrible shooting mechanics. Just running from generic spaceship room to spaceship room, sloppily shooting aliens with lame rayguns. Nope, couldn't even finish it.

I can definitely see that but I enjoyed the hell out of it too. Exploring the ship was really great and there was something about popping the heads off of those aliens that was incredibly satisfying.

I feel the same. While Vegas was better from a story and gameplay mechanics point of view, however to myself, the star of open world games is the open world itself and I just found the Mojave to be a complete bore compared to the Capital Wasteland. Even with mods.

Yup.
 
I'm extremely surprised that you enjoyed Mothership Zeta.

A pure combat experience in a game with terrible shooting mechanics. Just running from generic spaceship room to spaceship room, sloppily shooting aliens with lame rayguns. Nope, couldn't even finish it.

The setting was so unique and beautiful that I gave it a pass for pretty much everything else about it. Plus it was so brief that it didn't feel like it dragged on for forever.
 
Hmm... I've only played Fallout 3 and thought it was alright, so many people said that was the best game in the series so I never really understood the rabid fanbase the series had.

I need to get around to playing this, I've owned it for years but haven't gave it a shot yet. Everyone is going nuts over the Fallout 4 news but I don't really care, maybe New Vegas will get me on board.

these people are certifiably insane, best in the series?! It's not even the best FPS Fallout lol
 

antitrop

Member
The setting was so unique and beautiful that I gave it a pass for pretty much everything else about it. Plus it was so brief that it didn't feel like it dragged on for forever.

I just don't like the combat in this game, the only reason I was able to pull through Operation Anchorage is because I did it at a low level and it gave me some good gear I used throughout most of the main game (dat Chinese AK-47 and boss's melee weapon), but Mothership Zeta came out after I had already finished the game and did nothing for me.

Point Lookout was good times, though.
 

TheYanger

Member
Hmm... I've only played Fallout 3 and thought it was alright, so many people said that was the best game in the series so I never really understood the rabid fanbase the series had.

I need to get around to playing this, I've owned it for years but haven't gave it a shot yet. Everyone is going nuts over the Fallout 4 news but I don't really care, maybe New Vegas will get me on board.
I'm pretty sure it's only series virgins that think that
 
Hmm... I've only played Fallout 3 and thought it was alright, so many people said that was the best game in the series so I never really understood the rabid fanbase the series had.

I need to get around to playing this, I've owned it for years but haven't gave it a shot yet. Everyone is going nuts over the Fallout 4 news but I don't really care, maybe New Vegas will get me on board.

It's mostly people who've only played 3/played 3 first that claim it's the best in the series. New Vegas isn't hugely different from 3 at face value, but it does have far better writing, more in-depth RPG mechanics, more quests, a more interesting and branching main story, fascinating companions and some really great DLC (specifically Old World Blues, which has some of the funniest writing in videogames).
 

AJ_Wings

Member
I just don't like the combat in this game, the only reason I was able to pull through Operation Anchorage is because I did it at a low level and it gave me some good gear I used throughout most of the main game (dat Chinese AK-47 and boss's melee weapon), but Mothership Zeta came out after I had already finished the game and did nothing for me.

Point Lookout was good times, though.

I honestly don't know how anyone can stomach Operation Anchorage without turning on god mode and just blaze through the DLC to get the to the good loot. What an awful, awful DLC campaign.

Who thought focusing exclusively on gun fights with a game that has terrible gunplay was a good idea?
 

draetenth

Member
It was a good game (I don't regret my ~40 hours playing it, I beat all quests, but never felt the desire to explore), but a bad RPG (good exploration isn't enough for me: I need good writing, quests and dialogue before I consider it a good RPG) and Fallout game (maybe it's because even now I still consider Fallout 1 + 2 my favorite games, but Fallout 3 only put things like Super Mutants and Deathclaws in it just to say "see it's Fallout no Elder Scrolls" - basically the Oblivion with guns complaint >.>).

I can't say I wouldn't recommend the game, but I would caution people about what they were getting. I would caution them that it's the first (and atm until Fallout 4) Fallout game from BGS so it plays a bit differently than the rest. I think if I didn't consider Fallout 1 + 2 my favorite two games that I replay regularly (every 1-2 years), I probably

Also, I swear after reading all of these Fallout 3 threads, I feel like I'm the only one who didn't use VATs simply because I didn't like it. I honestly had no idea how powerful VATs was until I read some of these threads and learned that it reduces damage by like 80% or something. At least, I now know why people call VATs broken... I was mainly disappointed with VATS because target shots in Fallout 1 + 2 were my favorite form of combat. I loved crippling limbs until I was good enough to target the eyes for very frequent 1hkos. As soon as I noticed the VATs in Fallout 3 didn't work like that, I never used it again...
 
Fallout 3 was fine.

Then I played new Vegas. There really isn't any looking back.

Yeah. At first, I thought 3 was decent. then I played New Vegas and it was like, wow, Fallout 3 sucked!

I also went back to replay the originals, and Fallout 1 really doesn't hold up well anymore... it's so clunky. I'd order them 2 > NV > 1 > 3
 
I did the same OP. New Vegas is a legitmately deep and detailed role playing game. Fallout 3 is more or less "Oblivion with guns".

All my hyped was killed for Fallout 4 when I saw Bethesda's logo at the end of the trailer.
 

Jharp

Member
Ugh, Mothership Zeta was such a fucking bore.

Also, fuck those goddamn subway systems.

Besides that, it's a pretty rad game, save for all of Bethesda's standard technical jank. And their weird obsessive need to make sure every player can experience as much content as possible. Besides being a good guy or a douche, they really try to tailor the games to players being able to see as much of it as possible, and it always comes off as silly and immersion breaking. Oblivion did the same shit, and Skyrim to to a degree.

Remember in Morrowind when you could kill any NPC, including main quest NPCs, and doing so simply gave you a message informing you that you've doomed the world and all hope is lost? It let you go about your business doing whatever else you wanted, but you could totally fuck over any questline simply by killing NPCs involved in their progression. They even though to add a pretty well hidden secret backdoor for the main quest that you lets you complete it differently just in case you fuck it up the normal way, a method you can ALSO fuck yourself out of being able to complete. How rad is that? I loved that in New Vegas, entire sections of the game would change or get closed off based on choices. It actually made those choices meaningful.

I really hope Fallout 4 doesn't just try to lavish me and hold my hand through all of its content. Let me make some deep choices with impact (no, blowing up Nuketown didn't actually have any functional impact on that game's world) and fuck, let me kill any NPC I want to, even important ones voiced by famous actors.

BRING BACK REAL FREEDOM AND CHOICE.
 
Ugh, Mothership Zeta was such a fucking bore.

Also, fuck those goddamn subway systems.

Besides that, it's a pretty rad game, save for all of Bethesda's standard technical jank. And their weird obsessive need to make sure every player can experience as much content as possible. Besides being a good guy or a douche, they really try to tailor the games to players being able to see as much of it as possible, and it always comes off as silly and immersion breaking. Oblivion did the same shit, and Skyrim to to a degree.

Remember in Morrowind when you could kill any NPC, including main quest NPCs, and doing so simply gave you a message informing you that you've doomed the world and all hope is lost? It let you go about your business doing whatever else you wanted, but you could totally fuck over any questline simply by killing NPCs involved in their progression. They even added a backdoor for the main quest that you lets you complete it differently just in case you fuck it up the normal way. How rad is that? I loved that in New Vegas, entire sections of the game would change or get closed off based on choices. It actually made those choices meaningful.

I really hope Fallout 4 doesn't just try to lavish me and hold my hand through all of it's content. Let me make some deep choices with impact (no, blowing up Nuketown didn't actually have any functional impact on that game's world) and fuck, let me kill any NPC I want to, even important ones voiced by famous actors.

BRING BACK REAL FREEDOM AND CHOICE.

I do agree with this. I get that they want their games to be approachable, but those things that you mentioned in Morrowind and other games made for some of the most memorable experiences ever.

I see no downside to offering that level of freedom, that is, ostensibly, what Bethesda are supposed to be about.
 

tbd

Member
I found New Vegas handled its open world with much more disrespect than Fallout 3, it probably had more colonies and stuff than Fallout 3 but the respective locations were so empty and you basically had like two unique NPCs for 500 m². The worst was that RNC base - was it an airport? You also had some invisible walls here and there that prevented you from climbing some mountains and taking a shortcut. I don't think this was a thing in Fallout 3.
 

bender

What time is it?
I played the game to completion and I really couldn't tell you much about it. The decision to nuke or not to nuke the first town you come across and the disappointment of how Bethesda made multiple endings for the game and how cheap that felt.

I never gave New Vegas a fair shot. I installed it a few years ago and deleted it a few minutes after going into 3rd person view. The character animation in Fallout/TES is just so terrible.
 

Jharp

Member
I found New Vegas handled its open world with much more disrespect than Fallout 3, it probably had more colonies and stuff than Fallout 3 but the respective locations were so empty and you basically had like two unique NPCs for 500 m². The worst was that RNC base - was it an airport? You also had some invisible walls here and there that prevented you from climbing some mountains and taking a shortcut. I don't think this was a thing in Fallout 3.

I will say that Obsidian's method of trying to funnel you through the first few hours of the game was a bit odd. Basically any mob outside the road that leads south and around the map will murder your shit, forcing you to play it in a somewhat linear method for the first chunk of the game.

That said, I have no problem with the giant desert overworld being a giant desert. It's all about contrast. The desert felt like a real goddamn desert, and every pocket of civilization was special because of it. The Capital Wasteland felt more like an amusement park and like less of an actual wasteland. Exploring Fallout 3 was content overload, and it felt like the developers were constantly trying to find new shit to show me, but the game is so homogeneous that most of it just sort of runs together (save gems like the Republic of Dave and the Dunwich Building), whereas every little bit of New Vegas felt like something new. It may have simply been the fact that Obsidian are much better and far more creative writers than Bethesda, but I think a lot of it had to do with a masterful balance of desolate desert with just the right amounts of content strewn along the path.
 

woolley

Member
It's mostly people who've only played 3/played 3 first that claim it's the best in the series. New Vegas isn't hugely different from 3 at face value, but it does have far better writing, more in-depth RPG mechanics, more quests, a more interesting and branching main story, fascinating companions and some really great DLC (specifically Old World Blues, which has some of the funniest writing in videogames).

New Vegas also has more invisible walls and tries to force you along a certain path with with Fallout 3 it's much easier to just go wherever the hell you want. I enjoy the bigger freedom aspect of the game. Also it has a very poorly implemented karma system shoved in there along with a bad ammo crafting system. The world of NV is also much more barren and boring to explore than the DC area.
 

Killua

Member
I loved Fallout 3 to death it was my favorite game last gen. New Vegas had a lot of improvements but it really discouraged exploration in the beginning. They filled all the areas you weren't supposed to go with death claws and giant moths that killed you very quickly. My favorite aspect of Fallout and the elder scrolls games is the exploration. To have that severely limited in New Vegas was a big disappointment. That said, New Vegas did open up later and I was able to really enjoy all the improvements it added. Both games are brilliant and Fallout 4 is my most hyped game.
 
Little Lamplight, Andale, Tenpenny Tower, and Vault 22 = Instant classic.

Rest of the game: Still one of the best experiences I have had.

*edit* I must be the only person that starts these games on the standard setting, because I've never had issues with any enemies until I installed difficulty mods. Only exception is New Vegas when I went a little exploring right off the bat from the starting area and got insta-killed.
 

DocSeuss

Member
[*]I made the mistake of playing Fallout 3 after sinking my teeth into New Vegas, so I noticed all of the unrefined gameplay elements that Obsidian Entertainment fixed. Stuff like the more valuable perks, weapon repairing, VATS, crafting, the improved skill system, weapon mods, and hardcore mode.

Fallout 3 has the better world, and functions more like a sim. Most of the "improvements" you attribute to Obsidian are actually mods for Fallout 3 that Obsidian added to the game.
 
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