Support NeoGAF

[tebunker]

Chances are it will be in there going by what Iwata said so I wouldn't worry if I was you. If the NX is BC hopefully they found a really good way of shrinking down the chips necessary for BC with AMD's help or something.

Correct, but don't expect it to be hardware based unless Nintendo has a couple million WiiU PowerPC chips just laying about and they can plop em in to the new system along side a new APU from AMD.

I honestly could see a VM software like solution much like MS is doing with One and 360

 

[Bowl0l]

ARM-x86



wut?

ARM in home console to ease handheld game ports. x86 so that third party can port their games without loosing a lot of money.

 

[bomblord1]

Apple PC's had a PowerPC emulator built into the OS for ages after they switched to X86. In fact I'm fairly certain they only ditched in the last 2 OS releases.

 

[CrAzY FiNgErS]

I don't get Dean's bit in the article about the Wii U being x86 compatible. That is factually wrong so I am suprised he reported as such.

 

[Scum]

So? Fuggetaboutit. You can't design and hamstring a new system around being able to play 10-15 year-old games.

This. Maybe they can get a company like M2 to handle software VC/BC emulation...

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

The PS3 wasn't three years old.

Spoiler

Granted, the Wii U won't be either, but still. The abbreviated console life-span makes BC more necessary if they don't want Wii U owners to feel burned.

The Wii U would be 4-years old by the time the NX came out (at the earliest). The same age that the Xbox was replaced by the 360

 

[greg400]

The PS3 wasn't three years old.

Granted, the Wii U won't be either, but still. The abbreviated console life-span makes BC more necessary if they don't want Wii U owners to feel burned.

I don't see how this makes sense, Wii U owners can decide whether they still want to play their old games just be keeping the console... BC is mainly just a selling point for those that missed the previous gen console.

 

[LewieP]

I think the caliber of the Wii U library would make BC valuable if it could be done without compromising the hardware in other ways.

There's probably a lot of people who didn't own a Wii U, but for whom Wii U BC in a new console would be a desirable feature. It would also lubricate the upgrade path.

 

[bomblord1]

I don't see how this makes sense, Wii U owners can decide whether they still want to play their old games just be keeping the console... BC is mainly just a selling point for those that missed the previous gen console.

Want to play wiiU games? We have a console for that it's called the wiiU.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Want to play wiiU games? We have a console for that it's called the wiiU.

Hehe, but now MS obviously think BC is a valid strategy to convert last-gen users.

 

[lobdale]

Further evidence that they're (thankfully, finally) cutting ties with the Wii Era.

 

[phanphare]

Backward compatibility is thus a hurdle for AMD to overcome with Nintendo, but it is not an insurmountable one.

niiiice

 

[Trago]

If the backwards compatibility bit is true, I'm happy. You've got a backlog to work with day one.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

If NX has Wii U BC, fine....but this is probably the first time I really don't want it. Purely for selfish reasons. For me, a system with Wii U BC isn't nearly as valuable as a Wii U with Wii BC. Since I'm going to keep my Wii U hooked up anyway, I'd rather Nintendo cut ties with that architecture and start fresh with NX. From a business perspective, it would make sense, because they could repackage the best Wii U games (Splatoon, MK8, Smash) and resell them as "Definitive Editions".

 

[sangreal]

Hehe, but now MS obviously think BC is a valid strategy to convert last-gen users.

That quote wasn't about BC on the xbone in the first place -- it was about playing offline.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

That quote wasn't about BC on the xbone in the first place -- it was about playing offline.

"If you're backwards compatible, you're really backwards"

Mattrick was really something.

 

[The Sarcastic Dude]

God I hope they ditch that PowerPC crap. Such an anchor. Let BC Die or find a way to emulate it on the NX.

 

[L Thammy]

I think backwards compatibility is actually sensible here, especially if they can push the games digitally. The NX is almost certainly going to have trouble with third parties: it would be a good thing for Nintendo to be able to say from the start "here's all these great games that you haven't played yet, because we know you didn't buy a Wii U."

Of course, if it holds back the machine in other ways, it'd be a problem. I don't know nearly enough about tech to say whether that's avoidable.

 

[phanphare]

because they could repackage the best Wii U games (Splatoon, MK8, Smash) and resell them as "Definitive Editions".

shhh! don't let them hear you!

 

[Vena]

I can't wait until they announce that the NX is just two AMD foundries duct-taped together! No other company has infinity-cores*!

*Just feed silicon, workforce, and money.

 

[Trago]

I think backwards compatibility is actually sensible here, especially if they can push the games digitally. The NX is almost certainly going to have trouble with third parties: it would be a good thing for Nintendo to be able to say from the start "here's all these great games that you haven't played yet, because we know you didn't buy a Wii U."

Of course, if it holds back the machine in other ways, it'd be a problem. I don't know nearly enough about tech to say whether that's avoidable.

The article suggests that they are moving from PowerPC to x86, which is a good thing. And if it can handle Wii U "emulation", then this would benefit them and gamers at launch, especially for those who don't own a Wii U ( and that's a lot of people!).

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

The Wii U would be 4-years old by the time the NX came out (at the earliest). The same age that the Xbox was replaced by the 360

I know that.

And hey, guess what. Xbox 360 had BC. It might not have been the greatest, but it was there. It's also the reason why Halo 2 was the most played game on Xbox 360 until Gears of War, and was in the top 10 (hell, top 2) for ages.

I don't see how this makes sense, Wii U owners can decide whether they still want to play their old games just be keeping the console... BC is mainly just a selling point for those that missed the previous gen console.

With the Wii U being dropped early and the big game most dedicated Nintendo fans have been waiting for, Zelda U, launching likely not too long before NX, I don't think many owners will be thrilled at the prospect of having to update earlier than ever, rather than getting the expect 5-6 (or more) years out of their console. Guaranteeing that their current gen software, that they're likely not close to done with (especially with games like Smash, MK8, and Splatoon) will be playable on their new console, helps ease the burn of having to buy the console so soon. Particularly as they can sell their old console to fund the new one. It's not as big of an issue with 6-8-year-old consoles like the jump from last gen to current, as most people felt they got their time and money out of them, and generally we ready to move on wholesale.

 

[Vena]

The article suggests that they are moving from PowerPC to x86, which is a good thing. And if it can handle Wii U "emulation", then this would benefit them at launch, especially for those who don't own a Wii U ( and that's a lot of people!).

They're more likely to move to scalable ARM than they are to x86, especially since mobile x86 is Intel's domain now, and making the handheld and the console different just puts us back to where we were before.

 

[bomblord1]

It would be cool to see some kind of hardware level emulation for PowerPC instructions.

I can't help but feel Nintendo's just creating an absolutely tangled mess to work through though.

 

[TheXfactor]

if things are gonna be run from the same os from now on..is there even going to be a need for BC anymore after this?

I can see why a handheld would have BC to it because of the large install base for the 3ds, but the wii u? Not seeing a reason for it, and the more i read this the more i think BC is not happening

 

[Graphics Horse]

The article suggests that they are moving from PowerPC to x86, which is a good thing. And if it can handle Wii U "emulation", then this would benefit them and gamers at launch, especially for those who don't own a Wii U ( and that's a lot of people!).

The article suggests the Wii to Wii U transition went from powerPC to x86, which is flat out wrong, so it's probably not worth paying attention to.

 

[Fox Mulder]

it's not that. its that 3rd parties wouldn't support Nintendo even if they had comparable specs.

People keep saying it, but I dont believe this.

There's not an industry wide, decades long grudge just towards nintendo. big third parties are publicly traded companies that have shareholders. If Nintendo actually specced a machine third parties are developing their stuff for, youd see more games.

 

[M3d10n]

Translating PowerPC to x86 has been a solved problem for over a decade now. Apple went through it with their Macs. It's also easier for Nintendo than it was for Microsoft because their CPUs aren't SIMD focused.

Also, AMD has experience with this. I remember reading about AMD server blades which could run both x86 and PPC code years ago.

 

[Trago]

They're more likely to move to scalable ARM than they are to x86, especially since mobile x86 is Intel's domain now, and making the handheld and the console different just puts us back to where we were before.

Regardless, they're moving away from PowerPC, which is great.

I wonder how good ARM processors are with emulators. I imagine they'll need something pretty beefy to emulate Wii U games.

 

[L Thammy]

The article suggests that they are moving from PowerPC to x86, which is a good thing. And if it can handle Wii U "emulation", then this would benefit them and gamers at launch, especially for those who don't own a Wii U ( and that's a lot of people!).

Sounds good to me. It's also nice because the money invested in Wii U software doesn't have to be such a waste - so to speak.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

shhh! don't let them hear you!

Honestly, would it really be that bad? Imagine Splatoon at 1080p with all modes and maps available on the disc for $40. Or Smash and MK8 with all DLC on the disc for $50. I'd buy them again! And it'd probably help with droughts as well if they were available close to launch.

If they're able to do BC in a sensible way though, it'd probably be a good idea to include it.

 

[greg400]

With the Wii U being dropped early and the big game most dedicated Nintendo fans have been waiting for, Zelda U, launching likely not too long before NX, I don't think many owners will be thrilled at the prospect of having to update earlier than ever, rather than getting the expect 5-6 (or more) years out of their console. Guaranteeing that their current gen software, that they're likely not close to done with (especially with games like Smash, MK8, and Splatoon) will be playable on their new console, helps ease the burn of having to buy the console so soon. Particularly as they can sell their old console to fund the new one. It's not as big of an issue with 6-8-year-old consoles like the jump from last gen to current, as most people felt they got their time and money out of them, and generally we ready to move on wholesale.

The next Zelda game will most likely come to both the NX and Wii U just like Twilight Princess did with Wii and Gamecube. Anyway I see your point but I believe the majority of Wii U owners are hardcore Nintendo fans that never or rarely sell their consoles. I just don't think it's that big of a deal for current owners. It'll most likely be BC since Iwata stated it would absorb the Wii U's architecture so I don't think there's anything to worry about anyway.

 

[cartman414]

Don't really know much about this stuff, but who made Nintendo's past processors?

Ricoh based on MOS Technology for the NES (6502) and SNES (65C816; also seen in the Apple IIgs). And NEC based on MIPS for the N64 (R4300i).

 

[Roo]

Wait, I don't know if I'm reading it wrong but is that article saying Wii U BC will be possible in the next console?

 

[phanphare]

Honestly, would it really be that bad? Imagine Splatoon at 1080p with all modes and maps available on the disc for $40. Or Smash and MK8 with all DLC on the disc for $50. I'd buy them again! And it'd probably help with droughts as well if they were available close to launch.

If they're able to do BC in a sensible way though, it'd probably be a good idea to include it.

remasters are cool. I bought WWHD. I maybe buy or not buy those others.

you were suggesting that they forego backwards compatibility altogether because remasters exist. that's no bueno.

 

[djlr181]

I'm not sure backward compatibility would be guaranteed, given the Wii U's small install base it might be a good time to start fresh.

I suppose you could also look at it the other way, backward compatibility would give the Wii U games a second opportunity to bring in revenue.

Either way, I don't think an AMD APU would be all that surprising.

The Wii U's small install base is also a huge reason for backwards compatibility. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to buy a brand new Nintendo system that also has the ability to play big hits they may have missed such as Mario Kart 8.

 

[L Thammy]

People keep saying it, but I dont believe this.

There's not an industry wide, decades long grudge just towards nintendo. big third parties are publicly traded companies that have shareholders. If Nintendo actually specced a machine third parties are developing their stuff for, youd see more games.

I don't think that's exactly true. Third parties have seen that their games don't sell on Nintendo systems for a long time, and they've seen Nintendo systems either faltering or moving away from their target audiences for a long time. Third parties would likely be cautious about a competitive Nintendo, which would mean they wouldn't go all in, which would mean that the third party library would still end up being worse than Nintendo.

I do think that Nintendo can build a strong third party library if they make an intentional effort to do so; communicating with third parties, letting them set hardware or software requirements, finding out what Sony and Microsoft offer and trying to beat it, so on. But I don't think they can fix that overnight. Recent history does not just magically disappear. If they did, the PS3 would have been totally screwed, instead of retaining strong third party support for the PS2.

 

[mug]

It'd be nice if they went the Wii route while there was a separate chip for the GCN backwards compatibility in addition to a new chip for Wii games.

PPC for compatibility and AMD APU for future titles.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Wait, I don't know if I'm reading it wrong but is that article saying Wii U BC will be possible in the next console?

tbh I don't know what it's saying, it sounds like he changed his mind on what architecture they currently use half way through the article.

 

[Tallshortman]

Certainly makes sense, AMD APU's look like the future for consoles since a strong CPU for gaming is usually not needed and it saves both space and cost.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

remasters are cool. I bought WWHD. I maybe buy or not buy those others.

you were suggesting that they forego backwards compatibility altogether because remasters exist. that's no bueno.

Heh, yeah, it wouldn't necessarily be a great pro-consumer move. I was speaking mainly from a business perspective. I would guess that if BC happens, we won't be getting any Wii U remasters though.

 

[Roo]

tbh I don't know what it's saying, it sounds like he changed his mind on what architecture they currently use half way throught the article.

Yeah, that's what I'm curious about it. The article doesn't make any sense lol

 

[Zee-Row]

I just hope the OS is fast. The Wii U OS is so eye gougingly slow. It takes forever to open anything on that thing.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I don't care what architecture they go with, just so long as the power brick is as very large.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Only BC thing they should really worry about is our old VC titles and somehow migrating them into a real account system later...

 

[cartman414]

I can't wait until they announce that the NX is just two AMD foundries duct-taped together! No other company has infinity-cores*!

*Just feed silicon, workforce, and money.

PS4 and XBone use 2 duct-taped Jaguars. Nintendo, ever the trendsetter.

Apple PC's had a PowerPC emulator built into the OS for ages after they switched to X86. In fact I'm fairly certain they only ditched in the last 2 OS releases.

They dropped it with OSX Lion (10.7).

 

[Vormund]

I have a feeling that Nintendo is going leverage their back catalog more with NX, and this would require some BC. I do think this will be some kind of emulation, but unlike MS, will be done from the beginning.

For back catalog, think something like iOS where you can run games on both the iphone or ipad....but with Nintendo games. I would think the handheld NX would have some limitations obviously with more recent titles.

Remember PPC covers 3 out of 6 Nintendo home consoles so it's definitely worthwhile to include.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

If AMD x86 can handle and run PPC code with no problems as some of you are saying for the last 10 years, why didn't they just do this with the Wii U? Simply a matter of being lazy with the Wii U CPU?

Also, if they can run Wii U games native with x86 on the NX, wouldn't simple patch upgrades to current Wii U games be possible, like adding AA to Mario Kart 8 and smoothing out the frame rate in W101?

 

[Madao]

It'd be nice if they went the Wii route while there was a separate chip for the GCN backwards compatibility in addition to a new chip for Wii games.

PPC for compatibility and AMD APU for future titles.

that's wrong since the Wii used the same chips for Wii and GC games. it just downclocked itself and disabled some parts when in GC mode.
Wii and GC are basically the same machine in terms of power and architecture. that's why they run with the same emulator (and also why the Wii U can play GC games with homebrew)

 

[ElTorro]

Backwards compatibility is so damn overrated... Come on Nintendo, be business-smart and just make remasters of great games like everybody else. Almost nobody will care about the remaining games enough to approve another potentially compromised system architecture.