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Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

looking at this I see that the best 1080p tvs are samsung J6300 for 46"/48" and J6200 for 40". J6300 has a 40" version too, shouldn't that be better?

also what do you people think about the J6300? I was thinking of getting that.

also I found Samsung UE40J6300AK 40" and SAMSUNG UE40J6300AKXXC, they look similar but I'm not sure. does that XXC at the end mean that it's a different model?

Depends if you are wanting 1080p or UHD (4k) really. Both Sony and Samsung make good TV's. Samsung do have the panel lottery problem, as people like to call it and Samsung still have a habit of not supporting 24p on some of their TV's, which produce a judder effect when watching blu-ray's in it's native format.

If you go Samsung do the research 1st, where as Sony is much safer to buy without too much looking into.

The letters in the model numbers are normally to do with the country it's being released in, some do have slight differences (maybe a faster processor) but mostly they are the same.
 

Finalow

Member
Depends if you are wanting 1080p or UHD (4k) really. Both Sony and Samsung make good TV's. Samsung do have the panel lottery problem, as people like to call it and Samsung still have a habit of not supporting 24p on some of their TV's, which produce a judder effect when watching blu-ray's in it's native format.

If you go Samsung do the research 1st, where as Sony is much safer to buy without too much looking into.

The letters in the model numbers are normally to do with the country it's being released in, some do have slight differences (maybe a faster processor) but mostly they are the same.
1080p, since I'm getting a pretty small tv and I don't want to spend too much.

my research led me to that site and they listed the J6300 samsung tvs as the best ones for 1080p. and also ask here on gaf it that would be a good choice. :p
 
1080p, since I'm getting a pretty small tv and I don't want to spend too much.

my research led me to that site and they listed the J6300 samsung tvs as the best ones for 1080p. and also ask here on gaf it that would be a good choice. :p

The J6300 is a decent TV, input lag is not the best but it's still within acceptable range.
 

MrJames

Member
It's funny. There were a lot of doubters earlier in the thread claiming OLEDs will remain really expensive for the foreseeable future.

The 65in EG9600 started at $8999 and that launched in March. It's July and the price has gone down to $6999. Compare that to Samsung's best LED FALD TV the JS9500 at $4500 currently and it doesn't seem to bad. I wouldn't call it affordable but at this rate, I could see that TV going for $5500 somewhere on Black Friday. LGD is improving yields steadily for the OLEDs so prices are sinking. It's the perfect time for these panels to be dropping in price because 2016 is the year we should have most things standardized and hopefully LG can fix some of the quirks from this years OLEDs.

Here's a prediction: LGs top of the line 2016 65 in OLED will launch next year with HDR, HDMI2a, HDCP 2.2, all the bells, webOS 3 but instead of the starting price of $9000, I can see it beginning MSRP at $5-6k with prices being around 3.5k for Black Friday (which is pretty standard pricing for todays premium LCD sets).

Keep in mind the 65" flat OLED model was announced at $7,999 when the current curved model was $8,999. If they want to maintain that same pricing structure the flat model will need to now launch at $5,999. If they manage to correct all the panel issues and add HDMI 2.0A then I'll strongly consider getting one.

Also waiting to see what Panasonic does with their OLED rumored to launch this year along with the CX900. IFA is little over a month away.
 

Jigolo

Member
Keep in mind the 65" flat OLED model was announced at $7,999 when the current curved model was $8,999. If they want to maintain that same pricing structure the flat model will need to now launch at $5,999. If they manage to correct all the panel issues and add HDMI 2.0A then I'll strongly consider getting one.

Also waiting to see what Panasonic does with their OLED rumored to launch this year along with the CX900. IFA is little over a month away.

Yup. There is still a chance they've fixed the uniformity and motion issues with the EF (flat) models. Rumor has it that they launch in September and were originally 1k cheaper than the EG (curved) models. If the rumor still holds true, we can probably see a 65in OLED MSRPing at 6K this year. The same model but 55in would start at 3.5k which is already excellent.

Panasonic's TV hopefully gets reshown at IFA with more details. LGs OLED panel + Panasonic processing could be a match made in heaven. IFA should be interesting.
 

hitgirl

Member
Yup. There is still a chance they've fixed the uniformity and motion issues with the EF (flat) models. Rumor has it that they launch in September and were originally 1k cheaper than the EG (curved) models. If the rumor still holds true, we can probably see a 65in OLED MSRPing at 6K this year. The same model but 55in would start at 3.5k which is already excellent.

Panasonic's TV hopefully gets reshown at IFA with more details. LGs OLED panel + Panasonic processing could be a match made in heaven. IFA should be interesting.

If they release a flat 1080p one, HNNGGGG. I'd take that.
 

werks

Banned
Yup. There is still a chance they've fixed the uniformity and motion issues with the EF (flat) models. Rumor has it that they launch in September and were originally 1k cheaper than the EG (curved) models. If the rumor still holds true, we can probably see a 65in OLED MSRPing at 6K this year. The same model but 55in would start at 3.5k which is already excellent.

Panasonic's TV hopefully gets reshown at IFA with more details. LGs OLED panel + Panasonic processing could be a match made in heaven. IFA should be interesting.

I would jump on it in a heartbeat as long as it was a 1080P TV at a reasonable price. Honestly the curve doesn't bother me at all but I would still prefer a flat TV.

If LG can make what is probably the best TV with their mediocre processing, I would love to see what panny can do.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
The cheaper LG OLEDs are starting to look tempting... how are curved TVs for playing 2D games, no distortion? I know the input lag isn't amazing but it should be acceptable for all types of games right?
I've been using my ps3 on a 23" Asus "evo monitor" for the past 6 years so I don't have much experience with gaming on larger HDTV screens.
 

SMOK3Y

Generous Member
I've been using my ps3 on a 23" Asus "evo monitor" for the past 6 years so I don't have much experience with gaming on larger HDTV screens.
Not sure about the LG but i had trouble going from 24" monitor to 55" TV especially so with shooters
 

OCD Guy

Member
How does the LG 55EA9800 compare to the LG 55EC9300?

The 9300 was basically a cost cutting exercise for LG.

The 9800 is a 1st gen Oled so a year older than the 9300 but was much more premium, it had a carbon fibre reinforced back for example lol. The speakers are better too. LG went all out on their first consumer Oled, but there was a price to pay, on release it was extremely expensive.

If they're the same price is go for the EA9800 without a doubt. I've got an EC9300 and I like it, it's a great set, but I'd rather have the more premium model.

One thing in the EC9300s favour which is important though is the input lag is better than the EA9800.

Read both of these if you haven't already

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/55ea980w-201312083487.htm

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lg-55ec9300-201410203929.htm
 

OCD Guy

Member
So my samsung TV is fucked, keeps turning off and then back on every so often which is obviously unbearable when gaming.

I'm looking at this as a replacement -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00VLS5OII/

Is it good for gaming? Anything better around the same price?

I also seen this one that looks similar but is cheaper -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00MH4X072/

Does it need to be 4k? Generally 4k and gaming don't go hand in hand, most 4k TV's have high input lag.

If you're gaming with 1080p consoles I'd be looking at a 1080p TV, most likely a 2014 Sony TV, they had the lowest input lag, and generally had a solid picture quality.

For example this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00J32PA9W/

Here's a review of the 50" version http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl50w829b-201403023650.htm

For gaming with current gen consoles I'd rather have that Sony, better than that particular LG, lower input lag, plus a larger TV. The only positive the LG has is resolution, which to be honest aside from a few 4k shows on Netflix, and YouTube videos there isn't much 4k content out there, so anything you watch would likely be upscaled.

Unless you are planning on gaming at 4k on a PC I'd stick with 1080p, especially that Sony as you'll struggle to find a TV with lower input lag, and the image quality is good for an lcd. It's around the same price as the Lg you linked to, but you'd have to be quick as once they're gone they're gone.

Added bonus is Amazon themselves are selling it, no shady third party sellers.
 

sora87

Member
I was looking to future proof to be honest with the 4k and HDMI 2.0 specs. But if that LG has too much lag I'll have a look at that Sony one, thanks
 

OCD Guy

Member
I was looking to future proof to be honest with the 4k and HDMI 2.0 specs. But if that LG has too much lag I'll have a look at that Sony one, thanks

To be honest with 4k the standards haven't even been set in stone, plus with HDR being the next thing that's being pushed I wouldn't worry about future proof at the moment.

1080p is honestly fine, and will be for a few years in my opinion.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
Does it need to be 4k? Generally 4k and gaming don't go hand in hand, most 4k TV's have high input lag.
That's not really the case anymore, many 2014/2015 4k models have quite acceptable input lag, down north of 20ms for some of them. Unfortunately, some lag databases don't update the TV lag times when a firmware improves on it significantly, like Samsung did with their 2014 TVs through a simple firmware upgrade. For instance, every single Samsung 4k TV from 2015 are around 20ms now according to http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
Some of the amazon reviews are saying the OLED sets aren't so great for motion, due to something called the sample-and-hold effect. Combined with the somewhat high input lag, I guess that means these aren't so great for gaming? bummer :(
Also, anyone have issues with motion judder?
 

werks

Banned
Some of the amazon reviews are saying the OLED sets aren't so great for motion, due to something called the sample-and-hold effect. Combined with the somewhat high input lag, I guess that means these aren't so great for gaming? bummer :(
Sample and hold is how lcd and led tvs also work, so I don't think that by itself matters. The lg oled has 36ms input lag.
 

x3sphere

Member
Some of the amazon reviews are saying the OLED sets aren't so great for motion, due to something called the sample-and-hold effect. Combined with the somewhat high input lag, I guess that means these aren't so great for gaming? bummer :(
Also, anyone have issues with motion judder?

I don't notice motion issues on mine, but I also didn't come from a Plasma. The people that have issues w/ the motion tend to be Plasma owners.

Input lag is around 30ms on the 1080p model, it's just the 4K sets that have over 50ms.

I'm very happy with mine, owned it for 3 months now and no issues with IR/burn-in either. Don't regret the purchase one bit.
 
Some of the amazon reviews are saying the OLED sets aren't so great for motion, due to something called the sample-and-hold effect. Combined with the somewhat high input lag, I guess that means these aren't so great for gaming? bummer :(
Also, anyone have issues with motion judder?

It's the same inherent flaws of LCD thing with sample and hold. OLED got the colors and blacks that surpass plasmas but motion resolution tendencies similar to LCDs, it's a shame there really isn't one tech to get the best of everything out there. Interpolation was introduced as a way to reduce judder and increase motion resolution, all high end modern tvs have them, but that comes with it's own concessions as setting too high it creates that "soap-opera" effect many don't like.

If you have been using plasmas especially high quality ones (I fortunately and unfortunately in a way, from using a Kuro Elite and now a Panasonic ZT60 as my main tvs) it's noticeable when things move, if you have been mostly using LCDs, you'll do okay.

That being said OLED is my next big tv purchase when the time comes, it's absolutely gorgeous in person, it almost hurts. I'm waiting for all this 4k stuff settles down and it becomes more standardized when 4k blu-rays come out.
 
Some of the amazon reviews are saying the OLED sets aren't so great for motion, due to something called the sample-and-hold effect. Combined with the somewhat high input lag, I guess that means these aren't so great for gaming? bummer :(
Also, anyone have issues with motion judder?

Image retinal persistence ("sample-and-hold") is the same on any display which doesn't have pixel brightness decay between refreshes. CRT phosphors degrade in brightness between each refresh, so do plasma pixels. This creates the characteristic visible flicker of those kinds of displays, but it also resets your brain's perception of the image and thus that particular type of motion blur cannot occur.

LCD TVs and monitors may implement backlight scanning or blinking to simulate this decay, by blinking the image between refreshes you can reset this persistence. That's how LightBoost on the high-end PC gaming monitors works. Sony implements something similar on the 1080p TVs called Motionflow Impulse.

It's possible to blink the individual OLED pixels in the same way on an OLED TV to eliminate sample-and-hold but the only current manufacturer of OLED TVs is LG and they suck at just about every aspect of image processing so no one is surprised they can't implement OLED panel blinking between refresh.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
I have purchased LG 55EC9300 OLED. In this small review I'll try cover all the areas that have worried me prior to purchasing it, and clear up the questions that I've never seen fully answered (re. judder for example)

I've had the tv for several days now and put it through some paces and tests. I believe overall this is the best TV on the market right now, especially if you want to use it to play games and watch BluRay movies, as in both those cases 4K doesn't add anything useful, and just adds extra upscaling lag for console games. The colors and image fidelity are really incredible on this TV, especially when playing 60FPS games in a dark room. I've really never seen anything like it before. When you have a black scene with something floating in the middle of the screen, it's like looking at some glowing object in your room, as you can't see the TV itself at all. This is especially the case with 3D movies. Watching Gravity on this in a dark room in 3D and with motion smoothing on is like watching a hologram projection of some kind, especially in the space scenes with astronauts in the middle of the screen. It is a shame that if you want to sit closer to the TV so that it could take up more of your view, and 3D become even more immersive, the interlaced effect becomes too pronounced. The TV is using passive 3D method, which means you watch it with simple polarizing glasses, and the image is incredibly stable with no ghosting or any weird motion anomalies - but it has an interlaced effect due to halving of vertical resolution. By interlaced effect I don't mean flickering - again, the image is incredibly stable - but that the image appears as combed. This largely becomes a non issue at normal viewing distances, but is very evident if you try sitting very close to a TV. The TV was quite hard to calibrate to my liking, but I think I may finally be happy with what the settings. I'm talking just about the brightness/white balance/shadow detail calibrating btw, I didn't even touch the color correction calibrations yet.

I have two viewing settings:
- PS4 set on RGB Full / TV set on High Black (these two settings must go hand in hand, otherwise, you get either super-crushed black or completely washed out image). I have PS4 on HDMI 1 input, which is set to PC mode. This enables the 4:4:4 color mode, I've confirmed this by observing some color text artifacts that otherwise exist, but the same text renders perfectly in this mode. I swap between the Game mode and Expert 1 settings, which I've calibrated more or less the same, except the game mode has stronger oled light and slightly cooler white balance.
game mode:
oled light 80
contrast 95
brightness 52
white color W35
gamma low

expert mode:
oled light 60
contrast 95
brightness 52
gamma 1.9 (low)

All the other image settings I kept at default and all the extra/processing settings I kept at off (or they were already off because of PC mode). I had to select Low Gamma because otherwise, there's notable loss of shadow detail on this TV, which is very evident in darker games even when played in a pitch black room. It's not that the detail is not there (it's not crushed completely), but it becomes very hard to see when using medium (2.2) default gamma. With 2.2 gamma this can be combated by upping the brightness above 60, but by doing so, the pure black stops being completely non-light emitting, which I didn't want to happen. So keeping the brightness at 52 with gamma at Low (1.9) you get more or less the same image as with brightness at 60-65 and gamma at 2.2, but with my settings, the perfect non light emitting black is preserved, while the shadow detail becomes very good, and the gradient ramp overall very uniform. This is still just a byproduct of poorly implemented brightness control on LG's part. They should have made it so that the brightness control never affects pure 0 black, and it's mind boggling that they didn't make it that way. Ironically, when you have brightness at 60 and the black is nor longer pure black, if you pull up one of the tv settings overlays, you can see that the overlay appears as pure black, with your image behind not being so. So it's not a panel flaw, but rather poorly implemented brightness control.

In this mode, I have not observed any unpredictable judder that would be induced by the TV itself. Locked 60FPS games appear at perfect 60FPS on this TV, as well as locked 30FPS games appear at perfect 30FPS. 24FPS movies appear with predictable 3:2 pulldown judder (in this mode PS4 decodes the movies with 3:2 pulldown and sends 60hz signal to the TV) and nothing unexpected or out of ordinary ever happens during motion scenes. The motion blurring is pretty minimal IMO, and probably less noticeable than green trails on contrast colors on my plasma. This means that the motion juder that seems to happen unpredictably on this TV that some people complained about, must only exist if you don't use the PC mode, and is due to some video processing misfiring.


- Second viewing setting is PS3 set on RBG Full / TV set on High Black. Settings same as above. This is on HDMI2 input, which I've set to be "Game Console". In this mode color artifacting is evident in some texts in games (but mostly not in your face obvious) due to lack of 4:4:4 mode. Keep in mind that for bluray movies, the lack of 4:4:4 doesn't matter, as the movies are already encoded in 4:2:2 color mode, so there won't be any color artifacts on them. Something very important to mention is that on PS3 you need to switch the DVD/BD color space setting to "RGB" (not the default "Auto") if you want to watch movies with Full Range RGB / High black setting combo. Otherwise black color shows as gray and image is washed out. On this input I'm able to enable the "True Motion" and "Real Cinema", so I use it for watching 3D movies mostly, where I pretty much have to enable the tru motion. This has nothing to with this TV btw, I just don't consider 24FPS to be enough for good 3D viewing, as the low framerate jitter is extremely magnified with 3D (this goes for theatrical 3D as well for me). With Tru motion set on smooth, I haven't seen any terrible image artifacts watching Gravity, but as typical with this kind of processing, it misfires from time to time when the motion get too complex to be properly interpolated, so the scene moves smoothly and all of a sudden the judder appears and goes away. Again, this is unavoidable with any Tru Motion interpolation I've seen. With tru motion off, in this mode the PS3 sends 24FPS signal to a TV, where if the "Real Cinema" setting is enabled, you get the 5:5 pulldown so the frame pacing is even for film material, thus removing the consistent 3:2 pulldown judder. It is this mode (which is supposed to be the gold standard for 24FPS movie watching) that people complained about saying it introduces the unexpected judder during certain scenes. I have not seen it happen yet because I haven't tested it enough, but I'll make sure to do so over the next few days. I have to say that I'm perfectly happy with how TV performs in PC mode however, and don't really care if the 5:5 pulldown doesn't work perfectly.

Input Lag:
I have used the incredibly unscientific SingStar (the singing game) auto lag measuring test. This test while I suspect is not providing accurate measurements is providing a repeatably same measurements under the same conditions, so it can be used for comparisons at least. So don't use these numbers as correct, but just as a ratio of how much more lag is in one mode vs. another. It also rounds measurements to 10. For the record, I suspect this measuring always measures ~10ms more than it should, due to microphone lag or whatever.

- Testing my 2010 Panasonic Plasma, I've got the 50ms lag, as a reference.
- EC9300, in PC mode, with Game picture mode, 60ms. A bit more than plasma. Ah well...
- in PC mode, with Expert picture mode, 60ms. Expert picture mode has very reduced options when running in PC mode though. For example there's no tru motion, or 20 point calibration (well there is but it does nothing)
- in Game Console mode, with Game picture mode, 60ms (surprisingly, not much extra lag when not using PC mode, but Game mode already disables tru motion and bunch of other things) Also, lag measurements on a professional review site linked above have shown that there should be less lag in PC mode on this TV (here they measured 46ms, this review says it's just 34ms ). So I hope the new firmwares didn't ruin that. But again, I think SingStar test adds ~10ms, so 46ms on this TV vs 41ms on my old Plasma, which I think I read somewhere, seems reasonable.
- In Game Console mode with Expert picture mode - 140ms. This is obviously mode that can only be used for movie watching as the games becomes comically unresponsive if you try to play them in this mode, with or without tru motion enabled.

My TV thankfully doesn't have any dead pixels, and the uniformity is great. There's slight shift in white balance tone towards the screen edges left and right that can be seen on pure white screen only, but it's very, very mild and very gradual, only worth mentioning academically tbh. I think this is typical of this TV, and they generally don't exhibit uniformity problems beyond that. Generally, I've heard the QA is very good on this TV, and they are not sold if they have dead pixels near the middle of the screen. I've heard reports of people having one dead pixel on a side and that was about it.

If anyone has any questions or want me to test anything on this TV, I'll gladly answer / test it.
 

simonski

Member
Hey great write up.

Is 4:4:4 available on all inputs, or just HDMI1? And if you're using black level high for full RGB devices (the PS4), would you therefore go for low for something like a SKY HD box (or whatever the US equivalent would be)?

Cheers.
 

Jigolo

Member
On a whim I searched craiglist for an ec9300 and there was actually one listing. I've done this before so I was shocked. Offering the TV for $1700, I offered 1k and he lowered to $1500 but I don't have the money DDDD:
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Hey great write up.

Is 4:4:4 available on all inputs, or just HDMI1?
It's available on all inputs, you just have to set the input to be the "PC". Renaming the input is not enough - you have to choose PC from a drop down menu. Then you can rename it anything you want (I named it PS4). You can tell that you're in the PC mode because the only available screen aspect ratio options become 16:9 and 4:3 (no overscan or zoom options ara available)

And if you're using black level high for full RGB devices (the PS4), would you therefore go for low for something like a SKY HD box (or whatever the US equivalent would be)?
Yes, you'd have to do that. Low is default, and unless your device has an option that lets you select full or limited RGB, you should leave this option on Low for that device in almost all cases that are not a PC attached to the TV.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Another thing I will say about EC9300 - the WebOS is great, and the pointer remote is great to use. It's RF based, so you don't have to have a line of sight with the TV. The OS is a bit laggy though, which goes for everything in it, not just launching the apps like Youtube. Changing settings is laggy for example. Especially when you first open the menus and settings it lags more, then after that it's not so bad.

Also, while the pointer remote is generally great, I wish it provided a quicker access to changing picture modes (game, expert 1, expert 2 etc), and aspect ratios, so you can zoom some crappily presented youtube videos etc. You have to go through several steps in the menus to change either of these. I've seen that this TV used to come with two remote controls. One pointer remote like what I have, and one regular remote which I didn't have in the box. The regular remote has a dedicated button for aspect ratio at least. Maybe I should call LG support and complain that I didn't get 2nd remote.
 

OCD Guy

Member
Another thing I will say about EC9300 - the WebOS is great, and the pointer remote is great to use. It's RF based, so you don't have to have a line of sight with the TV. The OS is a bit laggy though, which goes for everything in it, not just launching the apps like Youtube. Changing settings is laggy for example. Especially when you first open the menus and settings it lags more, then after that it's not so bad.

Also, while the pointer remote is generally great, I wish it provided a quicker access to changing picture modes (game, expert 1, expert 2 etc), and aspect ratios, so you can zoom some crappily presented youtube videos etc. You have to go through several steps in the menus to change either of these. I've seen that this TV used to come with two remote controls. One pointer remote like what I have, and one regular remote which I didn't have in the box. The regular remote has a dedicated button for aspect ratio. Maybe I should call LG support and complain that I didn't get 2nd remote.

They should still come with two remotes, a "normal one" and the magic remote, also 4 sets of 3d glasses, 2 traditional sets, and 2 clip on ones for people with glasses.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
They should still come with two remotes, a "normal one" and the magic remote, also 4 sets of 3d glasses, 2 traditional sets, and 2 clip on ones for people with glasses.
Yes, I got four glasses. I think also you can use the theatrical 3D glasses with this TV, so you can get as many extra pairs you want for free if you go and watch any 3D movies in a theater.
 

Gandara

Member
So my samsung TV is fucked, keeps turning off and then back on every so often which is obviously unbearable when gaming.

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This happen to my Samsung TV (and it sounds like a common problem with those Samsung TVs). I think it cost me around $300-$350 to get it fixed, but they basically replaced the power board (the part is about $50). Others mention a capacitor issue, but mine didn't have that. It fixed the problem, but a few months later I have a solid blue line down the middle and red line on the slight right. I don't notice it unless there is a white scene. Not sure if this is a sign of more things to fail.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
Sample and hold is how lcd and led tvs also work, so I don't think that by itself matters. The lg oled has 36ms input lag.

I don't notice motion issues on mine, but I also didn't come from a Plasma. The people that have issues w/ the motion tend to be Plasma owners.

Input lag is around 30ms on the 1080p model, it's just the 4K sets that have over 50ms.

I'm very happy with mine, owned it for 3 months now and no issues with IR/burn-in either. Don't regret the purchase one bit.

It's the same inherent flaws of LCD thing with sample and hold. OLED got the colors and blacks that surpass plasmas but motion resolution tendencies similar to LCDs, it's a shame there really isn't one tech to get the best of everything out there. Interpolation was introduced as a way to reduce judder and increase motion resolution, all high end modern tvs have them, but that comes with it's own concessions as setting too high it creates that "soap-opera" effect many don't like.

If you have been using plasmas especially high quality ones (I fortunately and unfortunately in a way, from using a Kuro Elite and now a Panasonic ZT60 as my main tvs) it's noticeable when things move, if you have been mostly using LCDs, you'll do okay.

That being said OLED is my next big tv purchase when the time comes, it's absolutely gorgeous in person, it almost hurts. I'm waiting for all this 4k stuff settles down and it becomes more standardized when 4k blu-rays come out.

Image retinal persistence ("sample-and-hold") is the same on any display which doesn't have pixel brightness decay between refreshes. CRT phosphors degrade in brightness between each refresh, so do plasma pixels. This creates the characteristic visible flicker of those kinds of displays, but it also resets your brain's perception of the image and thus that particular type of motion blur cannot occur.

LCD TVs and monitors may implement backlight scanning or blinking to simulate this decay, by blinking the image between refreshes you can reset this persistence. That's how LightBoost on the high-end PC gaming monitors works. Sony implements something similar on the 1080p TVs called Motionflow Impulse.

It's possible to blink the individual OLED pixels in the same way on an OLED TV to eliminate sample-and-hold but the only current manufacturer of OLED TVs is LG and they suck at just about every aspect of image processing so no one is surprised they can't implement OLED panel blinking between refresh.

Thanks for all the information :)
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
I also want to note that sample and hold is NOT inherent to OLED technology. The panel itself has insanely high pixel switch rate - far, far higher than LCD. It's just that sample and hold is for whatever reason chosen as method on LG's TVs. Samsung's discontinued single OLED TV model had a black frame insertion option which created a full 1080 line motion resolution without any interpolation. Same thing is done on Oculus Rift OLED panel. LG's engineers apparently said this is not feasible with their panel, or something to that effect. On a positive side, LG's panel is the only panel that has RGBW (W is for white) pixels which not only produces better and brighter whites but should also lead to a more even pixel break-in which was a flaw on OLED panel so far where the blue pixels would fade in quicker than the rest so the image quality would drift over years.

All that said, I find the motion blurring on LG's OLED less of a distraction than green trails during motion on my plasma TV, (it also looks like less blurring than LCD TVs and monitors I've seen in person with no motion interpolation enabled) and I'm able to forget about both after short bit of watching anyway.

They should still come with two remotes, a "normal one" and the magic remote, also 4 sets of 3d glasses, 2 traditional sets, and 2 clip on ones for people with glasses.
I checked the manual now btw, and it seems like the TV now comes with just one, magic remote. They probably started doing that with 2015 TVs. I'll still give them a call and see if they're willing to part with one regular remote.
 

Shari

Member
I have a related question guys.

I got today a HDMI 5M cable to plug my computer to my pc and the idea was to play games on the TV.

What's the best desktop config I can get? Going screen duplication is not possible as my monitor and tv dont share resolution... Its going to be annoying to play seamlessly right? Going to have to change the resolution everytime...

Any ideas/help/tips?

Thanks.
 

Elitist1945

Member
So I use my old TV as my PC monitor, and when I turn my Xbox One off (which is connected to my new TV), my old TV (now monitor) also turns off. They are both Sony, but I don't know why this would happen and its kind of freaky haha.

Any idea why this is happening?
 

wowzors

Member
So I use my old TV as my PC monitor, and when I turn my Xbox One off (which is connected to my new TV), my old TV (now monitor) also turns off. They are both Sony, but I don't know why this would happen and its kind of freaky haha.

Any idea why this is happening?

HDMI CEC? Or Bravia Sync?
 
Are you talking about the soap opera effect? What do you suggest, then?


I am looking at LEDs not LCDs.

LED's are LCD's. LED is the backlight used. LCD can be CCFL or LED. Anyways you cut it they are LCD's

Can someone help explain what this guy is talking about? What's the problem (and solution)?

He's talking about the hz 1080p at 60hz is equivalent to 30 fps is the signal is interlaced, progressive it is capable of 60. In the simplest way to put it. With 4k TV's are only cabaple of doing 30hz when running at 4k. Which is fine for movies since they are at 24, but games it's eh.

The reason this doesn't really matter for plasma is because they are self lighting and basically instant, where you will have a black screen and it say oh show my magenta at this stimuli level (brightness) it's an instant switch where an LCD has to turn off then back on.

That's why LCD would market refresh rates like 120hz, 240hz, etc. For plasma it didn't matter. IF it did they could say it was like 600hz because it's basically instant.

The solution would be to look for a display that can do 2160p60
 

werks

Banned
Btw Costco sells the 4yr squaretrade TV warranty for tvs over $1000 for $89 ($95 for non-members). You don't have to buy the tv at Costco or even need a membership. That's probably the best price for an extended warranty on an expensive TV since it doesn't differentiate between a TV that costs $1000 or $10000.
 
LED's are LCD's. LED is the backlight used. LCD can be CCFL or LED. Anyways you cut it they are LCD's



He's talking about the hz 1080p at 60hz is equivalent to 30 fps is the signal is interlaced, progressive it is capable of 60. In the simplest way to put it. With 4k TV's are only cabaple of doing 30hz when running at 4k. Which is fine for movies since they are at 24, but games it's eh.

The reason this doesn't really matter for plasma is because they are self lighting and basically instant, where you will have a black screen and it say oh show my magenta at this stimuli level (brightness) it's an instant switch where an LCD has to turn off then back on.

That's why LCD would market refresh rates like 120hz, 240hz, etc. For plasma it didn't matter. IF it did they could say it was like 600hz because it's basically instant.

The solution would be to look for a display that can do 2160p60
So, what kinds of displays can do 2160p60? OLED?

What do most people with plasmas do when they want to upgrade?
 

Arttemis

Member
So, what kinds of displays can do 2160p60? OLED?

What do most people with plasmas do when they want to upgrade?

As a former owner of a Panasonic ST60 plasma, it's not a hard choice. LCDs today are capable of just as good of a true contrast ratio as even the infamous Pioneer Kuros. Blacks are inky black, colors are just as vibrant. Just do your homework and find one with minimal motion blur and low input latency. That's what I've done for the past decade, and I have no allegiance to any form, so long as what I'm getting offers me those qualities.

I just bought a Sony Bravia KDL55W800b, and the thing is a step up from my now-replaced plasma in every way. It's 1080p and not 4k, though, but it was only $600 for a 55" that has 20ms of input latency, and even through my surround sound receiver, it's actually faster performing than my Wii U gamepad (I compared the two using slow-mo video capture from my girlfriend's iPhone 6 and it was about 1ms faster in every scene).
 

watership

Member
So, what kinds of displays can do 2160p60? OLED?

What do most people with plasmas do when they want to upgrade?

We wait. I find some of the new LED LCDs to be nice, especially since my aging plasma's brightness is starting to go. But after extended watching my gf's new Samsung, I just can't bring myself to spend good money on a display that will not live up to even my old plasma.

So, I'll wait. OLED under 2 grand? I'll snap it up.
 

MrBenchmark

Member
So I use my old TV as my PC monitor, and when I turn my Xbox One off (which is connected to my new TV), my old TV (now monitor) also turns off. They are both Sony, but I don't know why this would happen and its kind of freaky haha.

Any idea why this is happening?

Your XBOX one is more than likely sending the on off ir signal sony devices use very few different codes. If its within ir range you will have this issue unless you remove the code from the xbox one.
 

Yaari

Member
In a thread on AVSForum I've read that LG is coming with a few more OLEDs soon. And that flat one is getting close. I really hope that Panasonic puts one out there as well. I love my Panasonic Plasma, so I'd like to see what they can do with a OLED.
 
What do you guys think about the Sony w705 and Sony w829? Both 50". Some say the 829 is just the 705 with 3D, others say the 829 is waaaaay better.
 
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