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[nkarafo]

So, i replayed a bit of Sonic CD and i remembered why i didn't like it as much as the main MegaDrive/Genesis Sonic games.

First of all the level design was kind of confusing to me. The graphics are much more abstract and i don't get the visual theme in some worlds.

Secondly, i really hated the time travel cutscene. Every few seconds the game would just interrupt to show this thing. Maybe to load from the CD? I don't know. If the transition was instant with a fast flashing or swoop animation to portray the change, it would be so much better.

Third, i don't get the soundtrack differences in the US version. It just doesn't sound as good as the Jap/Eu version. On the other hand, the US version has the better intro song. It just bothers me that i can't have a "definite" soundtrack version

Lastly, i didn't like how Sonic CD re-used Sonic 1 assets, even though it was released after Sonic 2. In Sonic 2 the character sprite looked better and had this amazing spin dash animation:

In Sonic CD they just re-used the jumping spin animation (second part of the pic):

Also, they used a different running animation compared to the Genesis versions:

Sonic CD:

Other Sonic games:

So basically, in Sonic CD they used a running animation similar to many anime where the hands are just hanging back as if the character is crippled/disabled and have no control over them... Ι hate this animation and i also hate how they are using it in almost all modern Sonic games (because there has to be nothing good about them, but that's another story/topic).


All in all, i think this game is a bit overrated. I enjoyed it overall and i loved some of the later stages. However i don't get why so many people think it's the best Sonic game. I do believe, however, that the game earned it's cult status because the overall quality standards for the Mega CD were lower, so this game was one of the best in the library, despite not being as good as the MegaDrive/Genesis Sonic games.

Thoughts?

 

[Dunkley]

I would like to say that a lot of these things have been addressed in the 2012 re-release including the spindash.

 

[nkarafo]

I was referring to the original version. People hype Sonic CD as the best one before the re-released version. But nevermind, what else is being improved in the re-released? How about the time transitions? These were the most annoying IMO.

 

[BocoDragon]

I think it was overrated in the late 90s and early 2000s when copies were rare and only owned by the rich kids and Sega diehards who lauded it as the best thing you never played.

But since then I think it's pretty much "rated". The garbage level layouts and rather unintuitive nature of the time travelling mechanic are well discussed at this point.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Lastly, i didn't like how Sonic CD re-used Sonic 1 assets, even though it was released after Sonic 2. In Sonic 2 the character sprite looked better and had this amazing spin dash animation:

Isn't that because Sonic CD was in development before Sonic 2? (I'm not sure of this)

 

[Komo]

I adore Sonic CD for its aesthetic, atmosphere and music. My issue however, is that I found the levels to be very poorly laid out and designed, making the game a hassle to play.

It's fun to look at, but I really don't want to have to play it.

 

[nkarafo]

Isn't that because Sonic CD was in development before Sonic 2? (I'm not sure of this)

That would make sense. Still, it doesn't change the fact that it looked like a step back graphically, on a system that was supposed to be more "state of the art".

 

[BocoDragon]

I adore Sonic CD for its aesthetic, atmosphere and music. My issue however, is that I found the levels to be very poorly laid out and designed, making the game a hassle to play.

It's fun to look at, but I really don't want to have to play it.

Absolutely. Audio-visually I love the whole thing. Both soundtracks. But the levels are a bummer.

 

[HTupolev]

First of all the level design was kind of confusing to me.

The level design is probably the game's biggest issue, particularly if you're only making sporadic playthroughs. It can be nice with familiarity, but it's very messy at a glance.

(A few of the zones are also very experimental in gameplay concept, occasionally in ways that are arguably unsuccessful.)

The graphics are much more abstract and i don't get the visual theme in some worlds.

Third, i don't get the soundtrack differences in the US version. It just doesn't sound as good as the Jap/Eu version. On the other hand, the US version has the better intro song. It just bothers me that i can't have a "definite" soundtrack version

I actually prefer the US soundtrack, and a big part of that is how well the whacky 90s electronica meshes with the artwork.

Lastly, i didn't like how Sonic CD re-used Sonic 1 assets, even though it was released after Sonic 2. In Sonic 2 the character sprite looked better and had this amazing spin dash animation:

In Sonic CD they just re-used the jumping spin animation (second part of the pic):

Re-using the jumping spin animation is actually sort of appropriate given that the spindash gives you similar properties. I actually kind of dig the consistency.

Also, they used a different running animation compared to the Genesis versions:

Sonic CD:

Other Sonic games:

So basically, in Sonic CD they used a running animation similar to many anime where the hands are just hanging back as if the character is crippled/disabled and have no control over them Ι hate this animation and i also hate how they are using it in almost all modern Sonic games (because there has to be nothing good about them, but that's another story/topic).

(I'm not seeing your Sonic CD image, but anyway...)

???

The normal run animation in Sonic CD does have Sonic using his arms. The peel out has him holding his arms back, but that mechanic doesn't exist in the games you're comparing Sonic CD to.

(And I don't think the peel out looks particularly weird anyway, since it only occurs when he's doing a really snazzy cartoon leg-spin-blur animation. It's not like there'd be a "natural" way for him to shift his weight with his arms.)

i do believe, however, that the game earned it's cult status because the overall quality standards for the Mega CD were lower, so this game was one of the best in the library, despite not being as good as the MegaDrive/Genesis Sonic games.

Thoughts?

It earned its cult status because on replays its bullshit becomes less problematic and its strengths shine more. It's capable of being a pretty good game.

Better than the base Genesis Sonic games? Debatable, but it's not like the world puts Sonic CD on a pedestal over them.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

The level design is what brought it down for me. Music was okay but the level designs were pretty jarring at times.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I think Sonic CD is great, and deserves the very good reputation it used to have... though yeah, it's gotten a much more mixed reception in recent years than it had back in the '90s to mid '00s, when it was often talked about as one of the best Sonic games ever.

While I think it's a great game with good gameplay, level designs, and originality (the time-travel system is interesting!), I do have a few issues with the game, most notably that the whole Future half of the game (the two Future versions of each level) are something of a waste because a good player should never see them. Sure, the Future gates matter, because without them there wouldn't be nearly as many hazards to avoid while trying to run fast enough to go to the past (if you want the good-ending-by-destroying-the-machines path), but still... two whole maps for each stage that there's no point to ever visit? I wish that they'd put some of that effort into more levels instead. Ah well. Otherwise it's a great game.

Isn't that because Sonic CD was in development before Sonic 2? (I'm not sure of this)

It was indeed, the game started development at the same time as, or before, Sonic 2. It was made by different staff as well. Sonic CD is the only Sonic game directed by Naoto Ohshima, Sonic's original creator, and Yuji Naka did not work on Sonic CD at all. Remember, Naka and Sonic Team moved to the US during and after Sonic 2's development, while Sonic CD was developed in Japan.

 

[Vorg]

Yeah I think it's pretty much common knowledge now that the game was indeed overrated. People claiming it was the best sonic game when the level layouts are terrible. Sonic 3 and knuckles is a much better game, tbqh.

 

[Adam_Roman]

The US soundtrack for Sonic CD gives me horrible headaches without fail. Specifically music in the past, and that boss theme. I've never gotten far in it because of that.

 

[MikeMyers]

The race against Mecha Sonic was the coolest thing ever. Though I think the original Sonic game was probably the best one.

 

[HTupolev]

The US soundtrack for Sonic CD gives me horrible headaches without fail. Specifically music in the past, and that boss theme. I've never gotten far in it because of that.

Interesting, since the past music in Sonic CD is the part of the US soundtrack that's exactly the same as the JP soundtrack. It was made by the JP team.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

The US soundtrack for Sonic CD gives me horrible headaches without fail. Specifically music in the past, and that boss theme. I've never gotten far in it because of that.

afraid I've got some bad news

 

[Adam_Roman]

Interesting, since the past music in Sonic CD is the part of the US soundtrack that's exactly the same as the JP soundtrack. It was made by the JP team.

Looks like if I ever decide to play it again, I'm keeping the music off.

 

[BocoDragon]

Interesting, since the past music in Sonic CD is the part of the US soundtrack that's exactly the same as the JP soundtrack. It was made by the JP team.

afraid I've got some bad news

Oh ho ho.

But maybe he hasn't played the Jp/Eu version, and is just saying he doesn't like it.

It is kind of unfair how American gamers were deprived of the context that the past music was an alternate mix to the present/future tracks, but in non-redbook digital audio, implying that it was indeed "past" music.

 

[Shadders]

I also think it's the weakest Sonic of its era.

I always thought that the aura surrounding it was just a result of the fact that so few people had played it and this myth was able to build around it.

Conversely, EarthWorm Jim CD is the best EWJ game.

 

[Adam_Roman]

Oh ho ho.

But maybe he hasn't played the Jp/Eu version, and is just saying he doesn't like it.

It is kind of unfair how American gamers were deprived of the context that the past music was an alternate mix to the present/future tracks, but in non-redbook digital audio, implying that it was indeed "past" music.

I haven't played the other version, I just knew the music was different and that the music when I played it gave me horrible headaches.

 

[HTupolev]

It is kind of unfair how American gamers were deprived of the context that the past music was an alternate mix to the present/future tracks, but in non-redbook digital audio, implying that it was indeed "past" music.

It's definitely a weak spot with the US soundtrack. The present, good future, and bad future tracks play off each other, with the past music often sounding... well, somewhat out of place.

 

[nkarafo]

Conversely, EarthWorm Jim CD is the best EWJ game.

Well, its a port (with a few extras), not a new game. A damn good port though.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's definitely a weak spot with the US soundtrack. The present, good future, and bad future tracks play off each other, with the past music often sounding... well, somewhat out of place.

I'm Canadian (so we had the American version) and the JP/EU is clearly the real version in every way. Superior too. Happier and poppier, just as 90s Sonic ideally was.

Spencer Nielsen's version isn't bad though. It's cool a variation exists. It's just not the real one.

 

[katsubento]

It's still my favorite Sonic game with the MegaCD soundtrack.

 

[Arc Christelle]

The race against Mecha Sonic was the coolest thing ever. Though I think the original Sonic game was probably the best one.

No it wasn't.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Since I had been hearing for ages how Sonic CD was THE best Sonic game ever (and myself never owning a Sega console) I didn't hesitate a second when Sonic CD HD came out. To say I was confused by how this game was supposed to work was an understatement.

It confuses me still! I only kept going to the last and destroying the generators and that's all I knew that I was supposed to do. Sometimes the future was ugly, sometimes it was fixed. I never understood how I was expected to play this game properly (beyond just running right to the goal).

I do think this game was a bit overrated. Long ago I played the Genesis trilogy in the GC collection and liked Sonic 2 better. Although that HD treatment given to Sonic CD I wished was given to every 16 bit platformer. Damn that was done spectacularly!

 

[BocoDragon]

Since I had been hearing for ages how Sonic CD was THE best Sonic game ever (and myself never owning a Sega console) I didn't hesitate a second when Sonic CD HD came out. To say I was confused by how this game was supposed to work was an understatement.

It confuses me still! I only kept going to the last and destroying the generators and that's all I knew that I was supposed to do. Sometimes the future was ugly, sometimes it was fixed. I never understood how I was expected to play this game properly (beyond just running right to the goal).

I do think this game was a bit overrated. Long ago I played the Genesis trilogy in the GC collection and liked Sonic 2 better. Although that HD treatment given to Sonic CD I wished was given to every 16 bit platformer. Damn that was done spectacularly!

It was pretty cool to get a more or less accurate version of an oldschool game with true widescreen.

A pity they had to take out the Toot Toot Sonic Warrior music, tho..

 

[Salsa]

it is only overrated in the sense that Sonic 2 is way, way better

I always thought Sonic CD was the second best Sonic game but it's still pretty far down from 2

 

[BocoDragon]

it is only overrated in the sense that Sonic 2 is way, way better

I always thought Sonic CD was the second best Sonic game but it's still pretty far down from 2

I have a feeling I don't want to bring up the superiority of Sonic 3 with you... (+Knux obviously clinches it, but yes I mean vanilla Sonic 3)

 

[Piston Hyundai]

No it wasn't.

what's the best sonic game, objectively speaking

 

[Salsa]

I have a feeling I don't want to bring up the superiority of Sonic 3 with you... (+Knux obviously clinches it, but yes I mean vanilla Sonic 3)

ya don't

but I know the kind of person you are now

go jump on a mushroom

 

[MikeMyers]

No it wasn't.

Hey, I can accept those that put 2, CD, or 3+K over it. Not too big on 3D Blast and Spinball though.

 

[BocoDragon]

ya don't

but I know the kind of person you are now

No words are necessary. We're better than that.

But I'm watching you carefully...

 

[Phediuk]

That music though.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

I have a feeling I don't want to bring up the superiority of Sonic 3 with you... (+Knux obviously clinches it, but yes I mean vanilla Sonic 3)

what if I told you the "& Knuckles" half of the game is notably worse than the "Sonic 3" half

 

[TFRazorsaw]

The thing about Sonic is that it's all about momentum. Flow. Not just building up that speed but managing to keep it. The best Sonic games are ones that allow you to race as fast as you can and maintain it through skill and good level design.

Sonic CD has one of that. Every five feet you're running out of road, smacking into an obstacle, hitting a bumper, or being launched into the sky in Wacky freaking Workbench. Sonic CD wants you to speed through the levels but it's just too freaking busy.

and then you have to master three freaking versions of each level.

Argh.

 

[BocoDragon]

what if I told you the "& Knuckles" half of the game is notably worse than the "Sonic 3" half

I would agree! High five

It's just that the full package is quite an epic that tends to make an impact on rankings.

 

[TFRazorsaw]

what if I told you the "& Knuckles" half of the game is notably worse than the "Sonic 3" half

Sandopolis notwithstanding, I always felt that the S&K levels are just as good as the Sonic 3 levels. Sky Sanctuary and Lava Reef are some of the best classic levels in the franchise.

and even if S&K has Sandopolis, Sonic 3 has the terminable Carnival Night, so it balances out.

 

[Laranja]

I didn't like it all that much, either.

The 16-bit Sonic games are some of my favorite ever, but I never had a chance to play CD before it was rereleased on PS3. I bought it as soon as it came out, since I had read that it was one of the best Sonic games, and also because I hadn't liked a Sonic game since S&K.

I didn't hate it or anything, but I just didn't have a lot of fun. The level design is all over the place, and exploring its levels is more frustrating than fun.

 

[nkarafo]

what if I told you the "& Knuckles" half of the game is notably worse than the "Sonic 3" half

Oh, come on now! Flying Battery, Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg, Doomsday... Some of the best stuff is in that part. Also, the music is better in that part too IMO.

 

[TheOGB]

I was just recalling the other day how I played this game on PC when I was about 3 or 4 years old. I had to get my brother to beat the first boss for me because the bad future and the music were just 2spooky4me.

I think the rise of "Sonic CD is the best Sonic game" coincided with re-releases. The first time I remember hearing it was around Sonic Gems Collection, and I totally bought into it (where CD was the best classic and Adventure 2 was the best modern; unfortunately at the time that may have been true). I'd go to a friend's house and play it some... but then we'd get so far in and stop to play Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Riders.

Then that "best Sonic game" chatter seemed to come up again around the Taxman remaster. That was about 4 years ago now, and by then I think I'd resolved that I enjoyed the direction the series went with 2 and 3 MUCH more than where CD explored. But I triple dipped on it. And I enjoyed it. It was certainly an interesting entry; very quirky, with some neat ideas and mostly great aesthetics, but it can be pretty confusing and frustrating in its level design. Ultimately, it's a good game, but I agree that it is definitely not the best Sonic game.

 

[BocoDragon]

Sandopolis notwithstanding, I always felt that the S&K levels are just as good as the Sonic 3 levels. Sky Sanctuary and Lava Reef are some of the best classic levels in the franchise.

and even if S&K has Sandopolis, Sonic 3 has the terminable Carnival Night, so it balances out.

Let's talk soundtrack, though. It seems to me that Sonic 3 was 90% hip hop/r&b/MICHAEL JACKSON tracks... While the Knuckles side was back to more videogamey Sonic tracks.

Nothing wrong with the latter, it was just less remarkable to me.

Oh, come on now! Flying Battery, Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg, Doomsday... Some of the best stuff is in that part. Also, the music is better in that part too IMO.

Only if you can't dance!

*moonwalks all over the thread*

 

[Finaika]

I agree on the spin dash thing.

Also yes its overrated

 

[TFRazorsaw]

Sonic CD's "legendary status" is likely partly due to Sonic Retro. I think it was its founder's favorite game to mod? Or at least it's really popular there.

Point is they set the narrative for what is and isn't proper Sonic there and the fandom seems to follow suit for whatever reason.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

The only thing that stops Sonic 3 & Knuckles being the best thing ever is they replaced vanilla Sonic 3's mini-boss theme with Michael Jackson's sound-byte playing over it.

 

[Randomizer]

Really don't understand how people consider it good at all. The art style is terrible and level design is awful. So all you have left is good music which is still worse than the music from all the main series games.

 

[BocoDragon]

The only thing that stops Sonic 3 & Knuckles being the best thing ever is they replaced vanilla Sonic 3's mini-boss theme with Michael Jackson's sound-byte playing over it.

It's the opposite..? They replaced MJ's sound byte with the Knuckles boss theme.

But I think that's what you meant to say.

In retrospect how was it not known that MJ worked on the soundtrack? I mean my god, there's a clear as day MJ scream in there. I guess we were awash in that attitude in music at the time, so it just sounded like the usual r&b.

 

[Arc Christelle]

what's the best sonic game, objectively speaking

There is no objective answer outside excluding CD and 1 for design reasons. But if I were to argue Genesis it would be between 2 and 3&K.
Objectively. They perfected what was created in the first game and expanded.

Personal favorites are SA2 and Unleashed for reasons that take more time to go into depth about than a person posting from his phone is willing to do.

Hey, I can accept those that put 2, CD, or 3+K over it. Not too big on 3D Blast and Spinball though.

I'm cool with that. I like 3D blast, but spin ball was pretty bad.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

There is no objective answer outside

stop

Objectively.

stooooop

 

[Arc Christelle]

stop




stooooop

Typical.

Anyway a bit more detail. Sonic 2 is a great game for improving everything that was good and needed work in 1. It didn't feel slow and the game is still fun to play after Emerald Hill Zone. If you're good you actually don't have to wait on anything outside those steam springs from metropolis.

This shines even more thanks to the competitive and balanced multiplayer which provides replayability. Not to mention they added Super Sonic, an actual reward for collecting the chaos emeralds.

3&K did the same and expanded with the bigger and crazier stages. Also introducing a rival/antihero that generated interest to rival playing with sonic and tails. Thanks to Knuckles inclusion the level design was expanded with elements to compliment his strength and gliding. Along with the elemental shields, flame, aqua, magnetic. The lock on technology took two games good in their own right and made a grand adventure. Also introduced the living seizure known as Hyper Sonic.

However despite 3&K's grander scope,its multiplayer was lackluster.

There are other reasons that may make one prefer one over the other thus, no objective. Each has their strengths. But Sonic 1 and CD are definitely weakest out of the bunch.