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[Miles Quaritch]

Interesting comments from the guy who is helping people escape IS.

In Mrs Begum’s case, the question of whether the children, who cannot have had any say in their parents decision to take them to Syria, is also a consideration.

The activist Abdul Kader said he knows of “literally dozens” of cases of would-be defectors eager to leave Isil territory after witnessing the realities of war.

But, he said, aside from Turkey, most governments were unwilling for their nationals to return home. He begged for greater assistance from consulates in repatriating citizens who have become disillusioned with the Isil agenda.

“Basically they go there with noble ideas about Islam and then they get there and they see that it’s all lies and that it’s essentially a prison,” he said.

“They are shocked by what they find when they get there.”

Abdel Kader said that there were “twenty to twenty five people per week” who wished to defect from the group.

“If all the governments supported us as the Turks have we could increase the number of defectors.”

“But they don’t want them back.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ded-in-Turkey-and-desperate-to-come-home.html

 

[Patryn]

I'm of two minds on this.

It's not the kids' fault they were dragged to Syria, so they should definitely be allowed to come back. They should probably be somewhat monitored by therapists to ensure that they didn't start buying into the program, but none of this was their fault.

As for the mother, as others have said her excuse for why she went is total bullshit. She just wants out because her husband is dead and her house got bombed. In addition, I'm a little wary about the whole teaching English thing. Could be totally innocent, and beneficial for bringing education, but could also be something sinister for the future.

At the same time, you don't want to separate children and their mother, so you probably can't admit the kids and not the mother, but then again the kids probably should be placed in state care, because the mother is unfit.

Shit, I don't know.

 

[Pizza Booty]

Let the kids back in and leave the woman out there to rot she made her choice.

what an awful way to look at this situation

 

[velociraptor]

Exactly my point, you just phrased it more eloquently.


The kids were fucked the moment they were born with a mother like that. I stand by my belief she had means to train them to fight for IS. Why should we let potential IS supporters back in to the country they deserted?

What about children who have rapists or murderers as parents?

They're children ffs. Let them back in and rehabilitate them.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I want to believe that rehabilitation is the right option, and that these people can be used as effective deterrents to others. I want to, but I don't. Sucks for the kids but I think a more effective deterrent might be a policy of 'once you're there, you ain't coming back'. Seems like a good way of gradually reducing our radicalised or radical-leaning population.

While I agree in some respets, leaving the kids there is morally wrong. They had absolutely no say in the matter, they didn't choose to leave their comfortable life here. They didn't choose to leave their friends and schools. I'd at least let them back for the sake of the children.

It would be wrong for us to say that you made your choice to join a murderous religious cult to a 12 year old girl who just wants to come home to some normality.

 

[Symphonia]

If I was British I'd rather take this approach than have the government medically and financially take care of people who literally want to destroy society. She made her decision, it's not my problem.

I'm so glad people are actually taking this stance. Britain has enough shit to deal with without a potential IS fighter plotting or carrying out an act of terrorism against the country that accomodated her for so long.

What about children who have rapists or murderers as parents?

Are you comparing rape to terrorism?

 

[Newline]

I want to believe that rehabilitation is the right option, and that these people can be used as effective deterrents to others. I want to, but I don't. Sucks for the kids but I think a more effective deterrent might be a policy of 'once you're there, you ain't coming back'. Seems like a good way of gradually reducing our radicalised or radical-leaning population.

Rehabilitation IS the right option. We're not dealing with mass murderers here. It's hilarious that you think treating these people with such heartless punishment will help to reduce radicalisation when for years and years the issue in the middle east has been fueled by it. As a nation we need to tread carefully, we have citizens that are teetering on the edge of extremeism. These people aren't evil murderers or madmen, they're the naive, easily influenced and can be corrupted by such madmen if we don't care for them ourselves.

 

[GhostWriter24]

Yeahhhhh I don't buy her story.

 

[SmokyDave]

Interesting comments from the guy who is helping people escape IS.

“Basically they go there with noble ideas about Islam and then they get there and they see that it’s all lies and that it’s essentially a prison,” he said.

Find where they're getting their noble ideas and shut those fuckers down. From where I'm sitting if they're looking to our mainstream media, they're seeing the reality and not the 'noble ideas'.

I'd be checking out her local mosques and community groups. Who is providing the 'other side' to this story?

Rehabilitation IS the right option. We're not dealing with mass murderers here. It's hilarious that you think treating these people with such heartless punishment will help to reduce radicalisation when for years and years the issue in the middle east has been fueled by it. As a nation we need to tread carefully, we have citizens that are teetering on the edge of extremeism.

We already have plenty of radicalised citizens. More than any other western nation. That's half the reason I dislike the idea of allowing more in.

 

[Shuggananas]

At the same time, you don't want to separate children and their mother, so you probably can't admit the kids and not the mother, but then again the kids probably should be placed in state care, because the mother is unfit.

It would be borderline criminal to let her keep her kids after what she did. I'm ok if they bring them back but leave her there.

 

[Hagi]

Exactly my point, you just phrased it more eloquently.


The kids were fucked the moment they were born with a mother like that. I stand by my belief she had means to train them to fight for IS. Why should we let potential IS supporters back in to the country they deserted?

lol what a load of shit how many one year old ISIS members have you heard about on the frontline? The 12 year old I could understand but man just writing all of them off like that without even trying to educate them on the truth of the matter just irks me.

 

[Easy_D]

Repatriate them, put the children into care, provide mental health support for the mother and put her under a very carefully monitored rehabilitation procedure, and when done try and persuade her to proselytize against ISIS. Everyone wins.

Yeah that's good. Do it right then have her talk about her experience, out their tactics and shit. I don't understand why a woman with kids would want to leave a stable environment for IS, they must be fucking good at brainwashing.

lol what a load of shit how many one year old ISIS members have you heard about on the frontline? The 12 year old I could understand but man just writing all of them off like that without even trying to educate them on the truth of the matter just irks me.

And kids are easier to reform either way since their brains haven't fully developed and they don't have a "set" way of thinking.

 

[Dilly]

Take back the kids and leave her.

 

[Azih]

“Basically they go there with noble ideas about Islam and then they get there and they see that it’s all lies and that it’s essentially a prison,” he said.

Find where they're getting their noble ideas and shut those fuckers down. From where I'm sitting if they're looking to our mainstream media, they're seeing the reality and not the 'noble ideas'.

I'd be checking out her local mosques and community groups. Who is providing the 'other side' to this story?

First. It's almost never local mosques and community groups. It's youtube and facebook and other social media. These movements are not being spread by traditional means.

Second. You guys do realize that getting her and her kids back and getting them to speak publicly about in what ways ISIS is 'not Islamic' is the best way to counter ISIS propaganda right?

 

[IISANDERII]

Let the kids back in and leave the woman out there to rot she made her choice.

I wonder how bad the situation is, so bad that she'd want to separate from her children if that meant that they could go back to the UK? I wonder if she is selfless enough to bear the pain of losing her children so that she could save them.

 

[MisterFalcon]

They probably went expecting that by now Baghdad and Mecca would have been conquered and she would be part of the new 1%.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

“Basically they go there with noble ideas about Islam and then they get there and they see that it’s all lies and that it’s essentially a prison,” he said.

Find where they're getting their noble ideas and shut those fuckers down. From where I'm sitting if they're looking to our mainstream media, they're seeing the reality and not the 'noble ideas'.

I'd be checking out her local mosques and community groups. Who is providing the 'other side' to this story?

Even the stuff that IS puts out themselves doesn't really paint them in a good light. I watched one of those 'Clashing of the Sword' videos on Youtube (I'm probably on some list now), and it's just endless clips of them blowing shit up and killing people. Not somewhere you'd want to take five kids.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

“Basically they go there with noble ideas about Islam and then they get there and they see that it’s all lies and that it’s essentially a prison,” he said.

Find where they're getting their noble ideas and shut those fuckers down. From where I'm sitting if they're looking to our mainstream media, they're seeing the reality and not the 'noble ideas'.

I'd be checking out her local mosques and community groups. Who is providing the 'other side' to this story?

I'd wager it's done online or maybe her husband helped facilitate her going over there? Come over, it's wonderful. We can raise our children in a pure Islamic environment.

He'd already drunk the kool-aid and then roped in his not so bright wife.

 

[GeordieMark]

While I agree in some respets, leaving the kids there is morally wrong. They had absolutely no say in the matter, they didn't choose to leave their comfortable life here. They didn't choose to leave their friends and schools. I'd at least let them back for the sake of the children.

It would be wrong for us to say that you made your choice to join a murderous religious cult to a 12 year old girl who just wants to come home to some normality.

If we don't also take Mum back, whats to say we don't end up taking in an extremely bitter young lady harboring a major grudge against the Country that left her mum to die? She isn't likely to understand any argument for why leaving her mum behind was the right thing to do.

I'd only be inclined to show any sympathy if the woman was prepared to rat out and give evidence against everyone who helped her get to Syria in the first place.

 

[Ganhyun]

If we don't also take Mum back, whats to say we don't end up taking in an extremely bitter young lady harboring a major grudge against the Country that left her mum to die? She isn't likely to understand any argument for why leaving her mum behind was the right thing to do.

I'd only be inclined to show any sympathy if the woman was prepared to rat out and give evidence against everyone who helped her get to Syria in the first place.

Who is to say that all of the kids wouldnt hold that type of grudge in the future?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Quite astounding how educated adults assume joining ISIS is "noble". It's like this lady doesn't know how to use the web

 

[Miles Quaritch]

If we don't also take Mum back, whats to say we don't end up taking in an extremely bitter young lady harboring a major grudge against the Country that left her mum to die? She isn't likely to understand any argument for why leaving her mum behind was the right thing to do.

I'd only be inclined to show any sympathy if the woman was prepared to rat out and give evidence against everyone who helped her get to Syria in the first place.

Young lady? She's twelve.

And I'd personally allow the mother in but remove her children from her and ensure her access to them is extremely limited. And I imagine any information she does have will be very forthcoming if/when she's allowed back. I doubt she's going to sing like a canary while she's fearing for her life.

 

[SmokyDave]

First. It's not local mosques and community groups. It's youtube and facebook and other social media. These movements are not being spread by traditional means.

Second. You guys do realize that getting her and her kids back and getting them to speak publicly about in what ways ISIS is 'not Islamic' is the best way to counter ISIS propaganda right?

I'd wager it's done online or maybe her husband helped facilitate her going over there? Come over, it's wonderful. We can raise our children in a pure Islamic environment.

He'd already drunk the kool-aid and then roped in his not so bright wife.

I bet it's a combination of online and in mosques and community centres. Either way, investigate the areas that these people are coming from. Not in a early 2000's 'investigate and then shit yourself when you find bad stuff and you think you'll be called a racist', but actually investigate them.

To be honest though, I'm done talking about this subject. Whatever will be will be and there is no benefit to me sticking my head above parapets. It's evident that we have a huge problem and I hope we gain the fortitude to fix it.

 

[Newline]

We already have plenty of radicalised citizens. More than any other western nation. That's half the reason I dislike the idea of allowing more in.

Who would like the idea of letting more in? However letting a woman with five kids and is currently repenting back into the country is likely to do more good to the current situation than the alternative. Otherwise we'd just be doing a great job and demonizing ourselves. Worst case were letting one radical back in but the best case were preventing the radicalisation of a multitude of others.

Neither solution is actually getting anywhere near the root of the issue anyway.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Yeahhhhh I don't buy her story.

the gubment believes it and are "co-operative" according to the article. Better to not set any precedents with British citizenship issues that can come back to haunt them if they say they "don't give a shit tbh".

 

[spekkeh]

“Basically they go there with noble ideas about Islam and then they get there and they see that it’s all lies and that it’s essentially a prison,” he said.

Find where they're getting their noble ideas and shut those fuckers down. From where I'm sitting if they're looking to our mainstream media, they're seeing the reality and not the 'noble ideas'.

I'd be checking out her local mosques and community groups. Who is providing the 'other side' to this story?


We already have plenty of radicalised citizens. More than any other western nation. That's half the reason I dislike the idea of allowing more in.

(I think other countries have it worse)

And let's not kid ourselves, what they think are noble ideas about Islam is that anyone who ridicules Islam gets beheaded, that gays are thrown off buildings and that the Caliphate is going to dominate the world. What they didn't factor into the situation was that their own lives would be in danger there, and not just everyone else's.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Quite astounding how educated adults having assume joining ISIS is "noble". It's like this lady doesn't know how to use the web

Often they don't speak English or only very poor English, which limits the information available to them. We're not talking people who log onto NeoGAF and read the ISIS thread here, we're talking women in intensely patriarchal societies who often have no immediate contact outside their family because they don't speak the language/their husband cut off their contact with others, have their faith as the most important factor in their lives given the absence of any other sort of meaningful fulfilment, and have access to only a tiny number of sources all telling them that this group are wonderful heroes and the knights of their faith.

 

[DeaviL]

“Basically they go there with noble ideas about Islam and then they get there and they see that it’s all lies and that it’s essentially a prison,” he said.

These people have started a war, they brutally murder everyone who disagrees and proudly display their heads.
They rape children and sell women like cattle.

What "Noble ideas" about Islam were you going for then?

 

[Ravensmash]

I feel for the kids, but I don't think the mother should be allowed back.

You don't just get up and leave for an area like that on a whim. I also worry about the real risk of radicalisation that emerges from people returning.

 

[Dennis]

I don't understand how these 'noble ideas' about islam that make people go join terrorists always seems to revolve around killing Westerners and destroying civilization.

Their ideas of 'noble' seem quite different from mine.

 

[spekkeh]

Often they don't speak English or only very poor English, which limits the information available to them. We're not talking people who log onto NeoGAF and read the ISIS thread here, we're talking women in intensely patriarchal societies who often have no immediate contact outside their family because they don't speak the language/their husband cut off their contact with others, have their faith as the most important factor in their lives given the absence of any other sort of meaningful fulfilment, and have access to only a tiny number of sources all telling them that this group are wonderful heroes and the knights of their faith.

Oh get off it, she gave English lessons while there. These terrorists are often pretty well educated. Education doesn't fully take away someone being an idiot.

 

[GeordieMark]

Young lady? She's twelve.

And I'd personally allow the mother in but remove her children from her and ensure her access to them is extremely limited. And I imagine any information she does have will be very forthcoming if/when she's allowed back. I doubt she's going to sing like a canary while she's fearing for her life.

She's twelve now but she's not getting any younger.

The cost of bringing them back puts me off too, even if she did grass. She's probably an unreliable witness anyway. She comes back and she is going to need somewhere to live, an income etc. No way should she be entitled to a single penny of British tax money, when there are plenty of people who wouldn't join ISIS who could do with the helping hand.

 

[cjp]

Because it's illegal for a country to make one of its citizens stateless.

The kids, sure. But the mother is originally from Somalia and the UK government has the power to remove citizenship from people that are naturalised or hold dual citizenship.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Because it's illegal for a country to make one of its citizens stateless.

Is it? I think the U.S. Can revoke citizenship in extreme cases?

 

[Dabanton]

I think if you've run off to join ISIS of your own volition you've forfeited your right to a UK passport and being allowed back here. She's incredibly selfish exposing her kids to that world.

 

[King_Moc]

The kids should be helped, sure. The mother though? She's a terrible human being, and I don't really see how she can be trusted after this. Glad it's not me that has to make these decisions tbh.

 

[Ganhyun]

Often they don't speak English or only very poor English, which limits the information available to them. We're not talking people who log onto NeoGAF and read the ISIS thread here, we're talking women in intensely patriarchal societies who often have no immediate contact outside their family because they don't speak the language/their husband cut off their contact with others, have their faith as the most important factor in their lives given the absence of any other sort of meaningful fulfilment, and have access to only a tiny number of sources all telling them that this group are wonderful heroes and the knights of their faith.

As far as the mother goes, she obviously knew English because she was teaching it in Syria while they were there. If she knew English, she could easily understand local news sources. She chose to ignore them.

If there is such a big issue with Islamic people leaving to join ISIS because they literally do not know any better, then maybe the local mosques should start educating their members on what true Islam is and speak against ISIS?

 

[Kinyou]

Interesting comments from the guy who is helping people escape IS.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ded-in-Turkey-and-desperate-to-come-home.html

It's interesting. On the one hand, it would be helpful to have people back who reveal how full of lies the Isis propaganda is, on the other hand, there really is no guarantee that they have really defected.

 

[Zizbuka]

"I don't care I'm wrong on this issue, so I'm fine with more people dying".

Ok.

A personal feeling/opinion can't really be wrong though. Maybe the 'experts' have a different agenda, than the guy thinking more about his family/friends/etc.

 

[cjp]

First. It's almost never local mosques and community groups. It's youtube and facebook and other social media. These movements are not being spread by traditional means.

Second. You guys do realize that getting her and her kids back and getting them to speak publicly about in what ways ISIS is 'not Islamic' is the best way to counter ISIS propaganda right?

Sure.

 

[Symphonia]

lol what a load of shit how many one year old ISIS members have you heard about on the frontline? The 12 year old I could understand but man just writing all of them off like that without even trying to educate them on the truth of the matter just irks me.

I didn't state anywhere that they'd be fighting for IS at this very moment in timd, but I did state that there's potential for her to raise them teaching them IS' beliefs and training them to fight for IS. You have to remember her husband lived here at one point, and he deserted us for IS. There are already IS beliefs within that family. I daresay the 12-year old already wants to fight for IS, given the apparent connection to IS her parents both have.

 

[Marauder Shields]

She made her choice. Deal with it.

 

[Tenebrous]

Kids should be given care. Parents should be jailed (and that's being kind - fuck them, honestly). No sympathy for the adults in this.

 

[McLovin]

What an idiot of a mother. She's fucked. Who knows if those kids are brainwashed. I'm sorry but I would not risk it, I wouldn't let them back in.

 

[Tenebrous]

What an idiot of a mother. She's fucked. Who knows if those kids are brainwashed. I'm sorry but I would not risk it, I wouldn't let them back in.

I'd let the kids back in. Give them the help they need, as they had no say in what they were being told to do.

The mother, though. Yeah, she can fuck off.

 

[GeordieMark]

As far as the mother goes, she obviously knew English because she was teaching it in Syria while they were there. If she knew English, she could easily understand local news sources. She chose to ignore them.

If there is such a big issue with Islamic people leaving to join ISIS because they literally do not know any better, then maybe the local mosques should start educating their members on what true Islam is and speak against ISIS?

I think it easier for people to swallow when we hear that many of these people "didn't know what they were getting into" than that they knew exactly what ISIS are all about, and went anyway because they agree. I find it very hard to believe that all of these people are brainwashed victims. More than we would like to admit have their eyes wide open when they show support for ISIS.

Like someone else speculated, this woman's change of heart suspiciously coincided with her house blowing up and her husband being killed. Has she really had a complete turnaround, or is she saying whatever will save her skin? I'd be more inclined to believe the latter.

 

[lazygecko]

I knew a guy from Syria who was constantly afraid that his mentally ill ex-wife would kidnap their daughter and return to Syria, which she had tried to do before.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Often they don't speak English or only very poor English, which limits the information available to them. We're not talking people who log onto NeoGAF and read the ISIS thread here, we're talking women in intensely patriarchal societies who often have no immediate contact outside their family because they don't speak the language/their husband cut off their contact with others, have their faith as the most important factor in their lives given the absence of any other sort of meaningful fulfilment, and have access to only a tiny number of sources all telling them that this group are wonderful heroes and the knights of their faith.

You don't live in the real world, nobody is this fucking stupid. This woman wants westerners dead, her husbands rape pit in the sun was blown the fuck up and now she wants to come back here where her and the kids will be reabsorbed back in to some extremist shithole in Greater Manchester.

we're talking women in intensely patriarchal societies who often have no immediate contact outside their family because they don't speak the language/their husband cut off their contact with others

And your lot would be the first to moan as soon as someone suggested a plan to smash this utterly toxic and misogynistic practice.

 

[antonz]

Ah yes the noble causes of Beheading Nonbelievers, Immolating Prisoners and mass murder. Who could resist running off to join the cause.

Considering they had her teaching english its very likely she was getting the next generation of jihadi ready for implanting into western culture.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

I don't understand this line of thinking. If you leave your country to become part of a murderous state then doesn't that mean you're rejecting your citizenship?

Why does a country need to take them back and rehabilitate them?

Because England is civilized and you have 5 kids involved. Plus, you can use the woman to potentially deter other Brits from going to Syria/Iraq by telling her first-hand account of how fucked up it is.