Not as a Metal Gear game, no.
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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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Not as a Metal Gear game, no.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Speaking of which, that whole initial interview that Kojima did with Geoff is bullshit. He lied on almost every answer he gave.
Quite the opposite. The body double plan was written specifically as a way to see the series off. The ending monologue is basically a farewell from Kojima, with him saying that we are all Big Boss.
Remember that Kojima always intended for MGSV to be his last game, well before the Konami scandal started. He stated so in multiple interviews.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
We are all big boss, after seeing through the series and being trained to be the ultimate soldier.
Springfoot
Member
So I was just sitting in traffic with time to kill earlier and thinking about how I would have handled the big Medic/player twist. The following certainly isn't the only way it could have been handled, but I think it would have had more impact and been more fulfilling and even more meta than it already is (you're BB, I'm BB, we're all BB). I'm not necessarily a huge fan of the switch twist concept as a whole, but I see what Kojima was going for, and the rest of this is written with the assumption that the big twist would be kept (unnamed soldier representing the player was tricked into becoming Big Boss). The goal with this would be to really sell the fact that the player is supposed to understand that they themselves are that unnamed soldier, and it was they who formed a bond with and ultimately became Big Boss, not just some unimportant NPC background character seen a couple times in the edges of a few brief cutscenes:
Ground Zeroes
The Phantom Pain
So what does this accomplish, and how is it different that what we have right now?
So that was what I was kicking around in the back of my head. It sort of solves the biggest issue I had with the twist, which is that it comes out of nowhere without the Medic/player avatar ever having factored into the story in any meaningful way until the final moments, which is not the best place to introduce a new important character (or transmute a background NPC into the most pivotal story character).
It still keeps things hidden from the player by appearing to be a non-canon Side Op, but at the same time it gives the player an opportunity to really see themselves in the part of the avatar/Medic, which gives the twist greater impact. Kojima loves the meta, and this would take it one step further (even more Kojima than Kojima?) since yet another twist would be added with the Ground Zeroes 'real' Story proving to be the fake while the Side-Ops version was real. To top it all off, the Kiefer voice duplication wouldn't have been a problem - players would just assume the voice actor voicing Big Boss did a slightly different version of the same voice for their avatar - people would think it was just a gameplay mechanic or a time constraint rather than an obvious giveaway.
Ground Zeroes
- Player launches the game plays the Ground Zeroes mission, infiltrating Camp Omega just as it is right now.
- Finishing the main campaign unlocks the Side-Ops and then pops up the new character creation screen.
- The character creation screen states that the player should make a custom avatar - this avatar will represent them in Metal Gear: Online (shipping later with MGS5), and that the player may sometimes see this character around Mother Base in MGS5 (note, this last part is actually a lie). It's important that this is presented as a red herring - specifically tricking the player into thinking their avatar isn't part of the canon, just some multiplayer mechanic.
- Right now, it seems like this is just a feature preview advertising stuff to come in MGS5 and the Fox Engine's graphics with the detailed character creator.
- Player continues playing various Side-Ops, with the understanding that they're non-canonical. Big Boss infiltrates the same camp several times in these Side-Ops and even plays missions as a time-traveling Raiden killing Snatchers or low-poly MGS1 Snake recreating scenes from 1998. Obviously these aren't a serious part of the main story.
- One of the final Side-Ops missions available is an Extreme Ground Zeroes mission with an MGS5 Buddy System Preview. The description tells the player how this is an extremely difficult version of the main Ground Zeroes mission, and it's designed specifically to be completed with a Buddy. It also states that this is a preview for how the Buddy system will work in MGS5, and will use your MG:O avatar for the sake of this Side-Ops mission.
- To players, this seems like any other gameplay preview or E3 demo, in which a special scenario is set up only to show off gameplay features without necessarily being canon to the main story.
- Important notes regarding this Extreme version of the Ground Zeroes mission:
1. It's the hardest version of the main mission with tons of extra guards and with guard AI turned up to its highest difficulty (so they're tougher and more observant).
2. Extra objectives will be added, and some of them will force the player to do two things at once, which forces players to work with their MG:O avatar Buddy.
3. Because this is the most difficult version of the mission, it gives Big Boss a reason to have brought help along in the first place (rather than running solo), although nobody would be thinking about that at the time (it's just a Side-Op, right?).
4. Also because it's the hardest mission, the player will probably take some time to complete it - often failing and restarting and learning to get better and use their Buddy most efficiently.
Players will face the longest, toughest mission side by side with their personal avatar. - Possible idea: The option may be added for players to use their MG:O avatar in the other Side-Ops just for fun. This would be like another preview of the MGS5 system in which you can choose to control any Mother Base soldier during missions. This would just give players more time to spend with their own avatar, but would be completely optional.
- One additional note, completing the Extreme Ground Zeroes mission would be necessary for save upload (perhaps all missions would need to be completed at least once, so the Extreme mission doesn't stand out). As a part of this, the Extreme mission may have adapative difficulty (a bit like Resident Evil 4 or any number of other games) to allow players to eventually complete it if they're failing too frequently. Basically tune the mission to look really hard initially, but make sure everyone can finish it. Your avatar buddy may end up becoming more effective and helping the player more automatically if they're struggling.
The Phantom Pain
- A digital download code for Ground Zeroes is supplied with every copy (not just pre-orders) so everyone plays through it first or uploads an existing save.
(As an aside, this is almost like a callback to MGS1 in which an important code (codec number) was supplied with the physical game packaging) - The player is prompted to import a save when launching the game.
- Entire game continues basically, as it is right now right up until Mission 46.
- Mission 46 begins, and some new things are added:
1. Somewhere in M46, some flashback cutscenes are shown to the player (I'm not sure exactly where they would be inserted into the mission, some stuff may need to be shuffled around).
2. It's revealed through flashbacks that the Extreme Ground Zeroes mission (with your avatar buddy) was the real mission that actually took place. The player sees a couple quick shots of Big Boss and their own MG:O (or so they thought) avatar completing some of the objectives.
3. The big switcheroo is revealed. During this reveal, it's also revealed that the main story Ground Zeroes mission - the one with Big Boss going solo - was actually a false memory. Medic/Venom/the player experienced a false memory of themselves as Big Boss doing the mission solo.
4. Player understands that they were Big Boss the whole time; that the Side-Op was the real deal and the main op was false.
So what does this accomplish, and how is it different that what we have right now?
- To be clear, this isn't the end-all-be-all fixit solution - there are other parts of the story and presentation that could use work, but with that in mind:
- There's an emotional buildup and payoff. The player will have spent time with their avatar, the character they built in the character creator.
- It's obvious to the player that their avatar, their very own personification in the Metal Gear world, is the character who took over for Big Boss. This is quite a bit different from what happens in the game right now, since the player has no idea what the character creator was for, or even that it was for the Medic character. It basically pops in out of nowhere during the intro, and that avatar is never seen again until the big switcheroo (deus ex machina, with the big twist coming out of left field). Despite supposedly representing the player, the Medic character, as he exists in the released game right now, is just an NPC until the last minutes of the ending.
- Looking back on their experience in the Extreme Ground Zeroes Side-Op mission, the player understands now that their avatar truly was a companion to Big Boss. Their avatar was the one Big Boss called upon when doing the toughest mission, and by virtue of it being a tough mission, the player spent a lot of time as Big Boss working together with their avatar buddy. Meanwhile, all of this was obfuscated behind the idea that it was just a Side-Op, unrelated to anything in the 'real story'.
- A bond was formed between Big Boss and the player avatar in the story, and simultaneously, the player formed a bond with their avatar in real life since he was instrumental to the player completing the Extreme objectives, navigating the hardest mission with the most difficult enemies. To top it all off, all of this happens through actual gameplay rather than a cutscene - the bond is formed through the player experiencing difficulty and hardship together in the mission itself instead of simply being told "hey, you two were bros."
So that was what I was kicking around in the back of my head. It sort of solves the biggest issue I had with the twist, which is that it comes out of nowhere without the Medic/player avatar ever having factored into the story in any meaningful way until the final moments, which is not the best place to introduce a new important character (or transmute a background NPC into the most pivotal story character).
It still keeps things hidden from the player by appearing to be a non-canon Side Op, but at the same time it gives the player an opportunity to really see themselves in the part of the avatar/Medic, which gives the twist greater impact. Kojima loves the meta, and this would take it one step further (even more Kojima than Kojima?) since yet another twist would be added with the Ground Zeroes 'real' Story proving to be the fake while the Side-Ops version was real. To top it all off, the Kiefer voice duplication wouldn't have been a problem - players would just assume the voice actor voicing Big Boss did a slightly different version of the same voice for their avatar - people would think it was just a gameplay mechanic or a time constraint rather than an obvious giveaway.
shocky2002
Neo Member
Sure, it was probably going to be Kojima's last, but the blueprint for MG1/2 remakes was set with this game. He would've left it to somebody else to do it.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
There is the legend of Big Boss and there are the persons who incarnates this name, all differ in personnalities even if one is the original one, or the other is his double or others his clones. The Big Boss legend is built by different people incarnating it and others around it to help its creation whether in good or bad path.
Then nothing changes with Kojima leaving, making your original post a little confusing.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I'll buy two!
We can argue hypotheticals all day long, it doesn't really make a difference. MGS2 wasn't the last MGS game made, but it was still written as if it were the last MGS game made. I feel it's the same case here.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
Is Diamond Dogs by David Bowie in this? or no?
Yes, you get it.
This is something you have to plant seeds for, and it would have worked better if it was executed as you laid out.
It's a neat idea badly executed. It seems that in their overzealousness to do it they missed the potential it had. My avatar wasn't anyone I had an innate connection to; it sort of looked like me but it was just something sprung on me that I made.
If the creation process had been integrated into Ground Zeroes it would have fared a lot better. It's sort of like the destruction of Mother Base; that would have been more effective if it were your soldiers, if your top soldier to a bullet to get Snake onto the helicopter.
It's one of those things best done well or not at all, and they didn't do it well. It's a shame because it's a one shot deal that could have been something remarkable if they took the time to plant the seeds and make it meaningful.
The Lone Courier
Member
Its pretty much stated on every page.
Why do people assume a 750MB patch will be a whole new secret ending when:
1) We've seen plenty of patches around that size or exceeding it that didn't do anything of that nature
2) There's still the online component to be revealed
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that the patch is just fixing some minor issues and maybe something involving the multiplayer component.
1) We've seen plenty of patches around that size or exceeding it that didn't do anything of that nature
2) There's still the online component to be revealed
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that the patch is just fixing some minor issues and maybe something involving the multiplayer component.
KOMANI
KOMANI
It's like beast mode in bloodborne... It would be awesome if you turned to that last image of Venom walking down the corridor when you have accumulated demon points.
I think the medic might be Gray Fox still. You find out he is an ordinary guy, but what we saw from GZ was fake. The real scene with Medic might be the buddy in extreme mode if you have GZ installed. That would be a creative way of keeping a secret while most people with early copies can't get online are thinking they will ruin the game before day1.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Pythonsalken? Is that you?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
I didn't get an answer before: anyone has a katana in this game? There was one in the mocap sessions.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
just finished the truth, most predictable plot twist, since the game makes it to obvious from the start.
but that's still not the real ending is it? Cause I've seen scenes with Paz in the game trailer for chapter 2
but that's still not the real ending is it? Cause I've seen scenes with Paz in the game trailer for chapter 2
robotoboy20
Banned
So much yes... I need more of The Boss in my life... She's amazing.
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
Impossible: Gray Fox can't be fake Big Boss, because he'd have to be two people at the same time in MG1: captured Gray Fox and Big Boss.
Funny suggestion, though. If it was true, it would mean that Solid Snake would have beaten TWO Big Bosses in one Metal Gear game (MG2: Solid Snake).
I haven't seen Paz in-game either. Perhaps it's connected to a side quest, or maybe I have to complete more of the harder versions of the missions.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
seriously I'm completely at almost why they thought that was a good idea, there where actually other scenes with quiet not shown aswell
GwyndolinCinder
Member
how do I get quiets ending?
Edit: the rain scene was it?
Edit 2:God dam, please don't make me kill her
Edit: the rain scene was it?
Edit 2:God dam, please don't make me kill her
Does anyone know if we can fulton a NPC in the game with this suit ? Or if there is any custom ghillie/sniper suit that we can use with our fultoned soldiers or with BB?
Something like this. (Images from MGO)
I would love to live my fake movie that in some point in the game I'm a sniper in a different playthrough... sorry for childish and out of topic question.
Something like this. (Images from MGO)
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
I think it's actually believable that he didn't make the game. Konami wouldn't remove the "A Hideo Kojima" game thing. They would remove it if they didn't want to be sued over Kojima revealing he didn't make this game.
Those look cool but haven't seen anything like that.
Pls stop.
Also from leddit
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Really?
Hands of Stone
Member
Almost there! Sodium levels at all time highs!
It's only on consoles though. Pretty sure its so you can transfer your save to TPP.
retcons, pointless plot twists, not caring about character consistency? sounds exactly like a kojima game.
KOMANI
KOMANI
and he's in the game...again... For the third time.
yup. Seems like both patches went up at the same time.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
PC didin't get the patch. PC version is always neglected and no companion app for TPP too.
Nah, after what's happened to the characters of Solid Snake, Raiden and Big Boss following MGS2 and 3, I'm happy to leave The Boss alone and maintain my perfect image of that character.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Yea... Knowing Kojima, he'll taint our image of her.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
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