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[Shenmue]

Investigating the funding method is the most interesting part of the story of the game so far. Kickstarter has had and will continue to have massive ramifications on the future of the video games we play, so of course it's a big story.

I guarantee Ben Kuchera doesn't give a shit about Shenmue Fan #431 who happily contributed, but is more concerned with how this funding scheme changes the game of VideoGame Production (tm).

Hmmm... he cares so much and yet does no investigating of his own. All he's done is taken quotes other people have gotten and then give his own misleading interpretation of the quotes.

I guarantee he doesn't give a shit about anything except for clicks.

 

[get2sammyb]

I think there could have been a little more transparency from Sony and Yu Suzuki, but the media didn't cover itself in glory by going for easy headlines rather than investigating the truth.

In my opinion, pretty much all parties were to blame in this instance. I don't really care, though: Shenmue III is going to get made. I don't think it'll be a great game by any stretch, but I still can't believe I'm even able to say those words.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I don't think the media is the shameful one here.

 

[marrec]

Hmmm... he cares so much and yet does no investigating of his own. All he's done is taken quotes other people have gotten and then give his own misleading interpretation of the quotes.

I guarantee he doesn't give a shit about anything except for clicks.

I can only guarantee that he doesn't give a shit about you or me :lol

Yo man, publishing is not development. I agree that Sony is investing money, but as a publisher, they can only market something that exists, and if the kickstarter failed there wouldn't be no game to publish.

You talk about reading skills, but the parts you bolded were referring to Shibuya, not Sony

Nah, I'm reading the original Kickstarter update and the bolded referred to both Sony and Shibuya. No ambiguity there.

 

[Laevateinn]

The positive in all this is that it made it so I won't even bother clicking a polygon link in the future.

By the way, news flash: every project ever could use more money. There's no need to write a critcal, snarky article when a crowd-funded project opens up a channel for the crowd to provide additional funds. It's counter productive and pointless.

 

[Ol No Bones]

I was surprised this didn't get more skepticism. Can we all admit that it was a weird Kickstarter? Having a giant publisher announcing at a giant game convention was odd to say the least and then the kickstarter itself may not have been very well thought out. These parts were just happy as can be because ITS SHENMUE damnit! Hell I wonder how many hyping had even played the games in some cases but that is completely beside the point. I'm still a bit weirded out by Sony's part in the KS. It still seems like a cash grab to a game they were always gonna put publishing muscle behind. I hope this method of announcing games (even beloved ones) doesn't become a trend.

 

[Dabanton]

Make me wonder how much of the shit is a result of some Microsoft bias, which was quite the thing in the US press with all the defence for Microsoft's original Xbox One concept.

lol what? a lot of the US game writers shitted all over the X1 concept.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

The most superfluous journalistic arm of any form of media

 

[marrec]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I can only guarantee that he doesn't give a shit about you or me :lol



Nah, I'm reading the original Kickstarter update and the bolded referred to both Sony and Shibuya. No ambiguity there.

Marrec, what in your opinion is the relevance of Sony's involvement, if it's as minor as they say?

Do you just think they're straight up lying about sony's role?

 

[Shenmue]

Why would you care?

And you make it sound like it would be such a stretch anyway? What would be wrong with questioning the future of a Kickstarter game based on the results of other similarly-funded games? It's common sense to ponder about it.

The fact that Shenmue fanatics are playing the victim is card is hilarious considering no harm is being done at all.

Because that kind of pondering is lazy. If you are going to doubt something, you do it on the merits specific to each case or at least if there is at least some stronger connective tissue other than "Hey they're all Kickstarter projects".

People rightfully doubted the Red Ash project when the Mighty No. 9 project was hitting snags. That's just because it's the same people behind the project. Bashing Shenmue because say, Project Phoenix is having issues or Yogsventure lied to their backers is dumb and lazy.

 

[louiedog]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

I saw a comment just yesterday on this forum from someone who is still extremely mad about a spoiler that Kotaku posted in 2009 and uses that as an excuse to hate them.

 

[diffusionx]

I gave money but am not expecting much. Quite frankly the funding setup is quite murky, Yu has not been as forthright as should be expected regarding this money, and I think it's fair for games media to criticize it for that. We all talk about how we want the game media to be more critical and discerning, so there you go.

 

[DannyDanger]

The game can release and be a good game, while at the same time having a questionable funding campaign and period.

Both of these truths can exist at the same time.

Shenmue fans need to take some deep breaths.

I feel like you're just trying to go against the grain here

Many of these articles either intentionally or unintentionally lie about the specifics of this campaign to push their narratives... Going as far as quoting Suzuki of context

If you need examples, i'm gonna put it on you to do your own research.

 

[Zafir]

While the Kickstarter was very poorly handled, I don't think it deserved half of those articles.

I think the best thing about a lot of the complaints is that, well other Kickstarters have done it before, why is it suddenly a problem now? If you are saying it's a problem with all kickstarters then say that, don't just single out one specifically.

Like complaining about them wanting more money through Paypal after the campaign had ended. You mean like most modern day Kickstarters?

As for Sony's involvement, there's definitely some complaints to be levied in that their role wasn't really established very well at the start. However, it isn't the first Kickstarter to have a publisher support the game in the same vain as Sony seem to be doing. The difference with those was ironically that they kept a tighter mouth on it until later.

 

[jay]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

I think the problem may be that the gaming press is generally not properly skeptical. So when something pops up and all of a sudden they show reasonable doubt, it comes off as an attack.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Shamemue

 

[Maintenance]

I'm not even a Shenmue fan and I agree with OP. But what else would you expect from "Games journalism"?

 

[Yurikerr]

I can only guarantee that he doesn't give a shit about you or me :lol



Nah, I'm reading the original Kickstarter update and the bolded referred to both Sony and Shibuya. No ambiguity there.

I sincerely can't make out if Sony is involved in the development part going by that quote. When Suzuki said "in Sony case", in my vision it could be interpreted as Sony helping with investment and publishing or only with publishing (the development will be covered by Shibuya).

I don't know, maybe i just don't have the same reading skills as you. =]

 

[Shenmue]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

You really don't see the difference? Look at people's reaction to Patrick Klepek's investigative pieces or Geoff Keighley's pieces. Those are often not positive about the subject, but people respect that because he actually takes the time to investigate. The majority of those pieces in OP's post are nothing more than clickbait. Yes I've read every single one before another of you guys throw out the "You just didn't read it" or "Too bad you guys are illiterate".

I think the problem may be that the gaming press is generally not properly skeptical. So when something pops up and all of a sudden they show reasonable doubt, it comes off as an attack.

It's not that at all. The problem arises when skepticism has no basis in investigation, research, and facts. Instead these people just validate their skepticism by twisting quotes from people and hiding their lack of research and investigation by using inflammatory and sarcastic language. Who needs facts when you have OUTRAGEEEE!?

 

[Stephen Stills]

It's just the click bait model of "journalism" at work. It's a cliche I know, but if you ignore it it really will go away. They feed on your rage.

 

[twobear]

I dunno, this seems kind of reasonable? They're asking for funding from fans to make the game but they're not being transparent about funding.

 

[akira28]

jesus, come on. If I didn't know it was Shenmue, this would read like an African American in the 1960s talking about the civil rights movement.

There's a law about that you know.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

On the flip side, most negative coverage is complete trash and only used to get clicks like this one:
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/06/shenmue-3-is-a-sad-cash-in-on-gamings-pioneering-past

Do you honestly think this is the paragon of good journalism? It completley ignores the intent as to why a Shenmue 3 wants to be made instead calling it a "cash-in" (it's not).

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

Between their "graphs" and "charts" and Kuchera's click bait drivel, Polygon's done way worse than just not enthusiastically supporting a game every now and then.

 

[marrec]

Marrec, what in your opinion is the relevance of Sony's involvement, if it's as minor as they say?

Do you just think they're straight up lying about sony's role?

They're being intentionally obtuse, which is normal and fine. But none of the articles seem to be terribly upset by it beyond Ben's opinion article.

The relevance is only in the handling of future big name Kickstarter projects I think. If old-guard developers are receiving shadow funding through big publishers I want to know and I want to know BEFORE I put money on a Kickstarter campaign.

 

[Asriel]

Because that kind of pondering is lazy. If you are going to doubt something, you do it on the merits specific to each case or at least if there is at least some stronger connective tissue other than "Hey they're all Kickstarter projects".

People rightfully doubted the Red Ash project when the Mighty No. 9 project was hitting snags. That's just because it's the same people behind the project. Bashing Shenmue because say, Project Phoenix is having issues or Yogsventure lied to their backers is dumb and lazy.

And if you read some the articles you can CLEARLY see that it goes further than "all Kickstarter projects" suck. Some are even't that opinionated at all.

I can see that you are Shenmue fan, but try and look at this objectively.

 

[Stephen Stills]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job.

I agree. Everybody stop writing about video games. Do us all a favor.

 

[Aaron D.]

I am interested in this. Any links?

Here's the OT I started on Gaf.

There's a more active version that I made on GWJ. It's got lots of mod links and gameplay ProTips.

FS15 is currently $15 (Steam key) over at Nuuvem.

Cheers.

 

[King_Moc]

One of the worst ones is this one by Destructoid, which has a misleading, sensationalistic headline:

$6M isn't enough to make Shenmue 3 'gorgeous visually'

What Yu Suzuki said:



If it isn't clear: he didn't say that 6 million isn't enough to make the game "gorgeous visually", he said that they're prioritizing story over graphics.

The headlines of articles about the interview are sensationalistic in general, focussing on that Yu said that "he could do with a bit more money". Cause, you know, it's such shocking news that a game with a low budget could probably be better if they had some more money to spend.

There's genuine spin in that headline, suggesting an agenda. That's an extremely poor show from Destructoid.

 

[Newtype-001]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I dunno, this seems kind of reasonable? They're asking for funding from fans to make the game but they're not being transparent about funding.

I was surprised this didn't get more skepticism. Can we all admit that it was a weird Kickstarter? Having a giant publisher announcing at a giant game convention was odd to say the least and then the kickstarter itself may not have been very well thought out. These parts were just happy as can be because ITS SHENMUE damnit! Hell I wonder how many hyping had even played the games in some cases but that is completely beside the point. I'm still a bit weirded out by Sony's part in the KS. It still seems like a cash grab to a game they were always gonna put publishing muscle behind. I hope this method of announcing games (even beloved ones) doesn't become a trend.

why do people beat around the push when they just want to say "I think Yu Suzuki is lying and Sony is helping this game get made."

 

[GeordieMark]

Shenmue 3 is completely unproven and it is totally natural to be skeptical of it due to its flimsy way of funding itself and the seemingly incomplete vision Sazuki has of the game's scope at this time.

The writers of this article would do a disservice to everyone if they painted the situation as normal.

Yep. Sounds fair game to me.

 

[marrec]

why do people beat around the push when they just want to say "I think Yu Suzuki is lying and Sony is helping this game get made."

Yu Suzuki said Sony is helping this game get made though.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

Stop being such an uncle tom nook

 

[ebullientprism]

I guess if you lack basic reading comprehension skills it might be misleading... :-/

Fucking LOL.

 

[Asriel]

Stop being such an uncle tom nook

What a stupid post.

 

[Maintenance]

Fucking LOL.

Amazing, isn't it.

 

[Asriel]

Shenmue 3 is completely unproven and it is totally natural to be skeptical of it due to its flimsy way of funding itself and the seemingly incomplete vision Sazuki has of the game's scope at this time.

The writers of this article would do a disservice to everyone if they painted the situation as normal.

End of thread.

 

[twobear]

why do people beat around the push when they just want to say "I think Yu Suzuki is lying and Sony is helping this game get made."

I don't know who's helping the game be made and I don't particularly care. The point is, if you're asking for funding from fans, then I think you have a duty to be reasonably transparent about exactly what it is they're paying for.

 

[Gaspard]

I don't see the issue in asking for Paypal pledges as much as the actual kickstarter itself.

Like, the game was introduced at a Sony conference. If a game has that kind of support from a major company what is the point of a kickstarter, guaranteed sales? Kickstarter is essentially a springboard for independent startups away from big publishers like Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/EA/Ubisoft etc.

If I am mistaken, then there should have been more transparency in this kickstarter. All of the skepticism is warranted in my opinion.

 

[outunderthestars]

Shenmue 3 is completely unproven and it is totally natural to be skeptical of it due to its flimsy way of funding itself and the seemingly incomplete vision Sazuki has of the game's scope at this time.

The writers of this article would do a disservice to everyone if they painted the situation as normal.

This right here. Sorry if it ruffles the feathers of the obsessive fans, but it is the truth.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Yu Suzuki said Sony is helping this game get made though.

Uh, so this boils down to another "I think Yu Suzuki is lying."

If we do not reach our funding goal, Shenmue 3 will not go forward.

 

[Foffy]

Isn't a lot of the criticism was the way this was pushed as a Kickstarter? The back and forth confusion - at first - between if the game was fully being backed by fans, or Sony was going to do most of it?

I felt rubbed the wrong way with how it was revealed. Far different from Yooka-Laylee and Bloodstained.

 

[Shenmue]

And if you read some the articles you can CLEARLY see that it goes further than "all Kickstarter projects" suck. Some are even't that opinionated at all.

I can see that you are Shenmue fan, but try and look at this objectively.

Discuss the topic at hand instead of resorting to these tactics.

Also if you look back at your response back to me, I was responding to a comment that negativity based wholly or even partially on other KS projects is unfair and illogical. I made no statements that all or even most of the articles are doing that.

 

[Primethius]

Being skeptical is one thing but man, some of those articles are straight up trash.

 

[Stephen Stills]

I don't see the issue in asking for Paypal pledges as much as the actual kickstarter itself.

Like, the game was introduced at a Sony conference. If a game has that kind of support from a major company what is the point of a kickstarter, guaranteed sales? Kickstarter is essentially a springboard for independent startups away from big publishers like Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/EA/Ubisoft etc.

If I am mistaken, then there should have been more transparency in this kickstarter. All of the skepticism is warranted in my opinion.

I think you're absolutely right. The KickStarter details were muddy at best and investigative journalism is something that should be celebrated.

But let's not pretend the likes of Ben Kuchera give a crap about investigative journalism or finding the truth, the "Yu Suzuki demands more money!" headline is all there is to his involvement. The rest of the article is just copied and pasted from EuroGamer. The clickbait outrage headline is all Kuchera has added.

Shemue fans get offended by what they feel is misrepresentation and click the link.

Average gamers get offended by Suzuki supposedly demanding more money (he didn't) and click the link.

Polygon gets their hits.

That's all there is to this "journalism".

And it isn't just Polygon and it isn't just games journalism. This is how all Internet news sites work now

 

[Suzushiiro]

lol what? a lot of the US game writers shitted all over the X1 concept.

Kuchera was one of the ones who not only was saying "this is the future, get over it" but actively embracing the concept.

 

[Atlas AS7-K]

and neither is Sony.

They are putting money into the effort in some way, and they featured it as an exclusive on the E3 stage. They are a part of the reason there was so much confusion at the start of the campaign.

 

[marrec]

This right here. Sorry if it ruffles the feathers of the obsessive fans, but it is the truth.

The "Shenmue Gap" has done some people dirty and now they can't take any criticisms of the new games development.