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[axisofweevils]

There is something about a multi-billion dollar company using the E3 stage to get money from fans that doesn't sit well with me. $10m is pocket change to Sony. It seemed weird to me. Basically, we want to get all the kudos of announcing this title, but we're not willing to fund it ourselves.

Considering the hype surrounding it, I do think the kickstarter was mishandled incredibly badly - especially when that guy who was clearly on drugs got involved.

 

[Nibel]

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

First trying to put Kuchera - the author who gave us gems like "The Xbox One will kill used games and control second-hand sales, and that’s great news (Really!)” and absolutely not cares for 'ethics in crowdfunding' - in a good light, then trying to paint people in here in a certain way with the above quoted post; what is the endgame here?

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

This right here. Sorry if it ruffles the feathers of the obsessive fans, but it is the truth.

End of thread.

Yep. Sounds fair game to me.

Shenmue 3 is completely unproven and it is totally natural to be skeptical of it due to its flimsy way of funding itself and the seemingly incomplete vision Sazuki has of the game's scope at this time.

The writers of this article would do a disservice to everyone if they painted the situation as normal.

Objectively assessing the situation is all fair and well, but why are we pretending these articles are not reeking of sensationalist shit-stirring?

 

[mike4001_]

They just know that they will loose money on this one.

Yes the Shenmue fanbase is very vocal, but this fanbase can in no way pay for the Shenmue III they would like to see.

Just look at the costs for a AAA open world game nowadays. The kickstarter money is next to nothing.

And the game will have a huge problem selling to anyone other than these fanbase which already payed for the game via kickstarter.

 

[marrec]

First trying to put Kuchera - the author who gave us gems like "The Xbox One will kill used games and control second-hand sales, and that’s great news (Really!)” and absolutely not cares for 'ethics in crowdfunding' - in a good light, then trying to paint people in here in a certain way with the above quoted post; what is the endgame here?

Sorry I don't hate Kuchera bro :-/

The endgame is to figure out what's so shameful about any of these articles. I want games press to have a proper amount of negativity and not just be a funnel for PR e-mails and shitty YouTube videos.

 

[Weebos]

I don't really see any issue with this coverage and skepticism.

If anything games coverage could stand to be more skeptical, though they certainly have been moving in that direction in recent times.

Don't get mad at other people for not mindlessly jumping on a hype train or for having a different opinion than you.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I don't know who's helping the game be made and I don't particularly care. The point is, if you're asking for funding from fans, then I think you have a duty to be reasonably transparent about exactly what it is they're paying for.

They're paying to get shenmue 3 made. Without the kickstart money, the game wouldn't exist. whatever sony is helping with isn't enough to get the game made.

If you think that Yu suzuki is lying about sony's involvement, then that's cool.

 

[Tertullian]

Here's the OT I started on Gaf.

There's a more active version that I made on GWJ. It's got lots of mod links and gameplay ProTips.

FS15 is currently $15 (Steam key) over at Nuuvem.

Cheers.

Thanks! But I was thinking more along the lines of links to shitty games media coverage of the game. Or is it just that it never gets any coverage?

 

[Shenmue]

Sorry I don't hate Kuchera bro :-/

The endgame is to figure out what's so shameful about any of these articles. I want games press to have a proper amount of negativity and not just be a funnel for PR e-mails and shitty YouTube videos.

OK then how about pointing out how his article is in any way "well-researched" or an example of good skepticism and fair negativity?

Or do you just want to continue with your sniping posts putting down gamers and Shenmue fans?

Your posts like these gems here:

Shenmue fans need to take some deep breaths.

I guess if you lack basic reading comprehension skills it might be misleading... :-/

Holy fuck this thread is hilarious.

Writing for video games is the worst fucking job. People stop reading your entire site's articles if an article doesn't enthusiastically support a game they like. What a fickle mob.

The "Shenmue Gap" has done some people dirty and now they can't take any criticisms of the new games development.

make me doubt that you really care much about discussing how these articles may or may not be shameful.

 

[Kinyou]

I think the problem may be that the gaming press is generally not properly skeptical. So when something pops up and all of a sudden they show reasonable doubt, it comes off as an attack.

Yeah, remember how people went nuts over the "Why you might not want to pre-order The Order 1886" video? Turns out the complaints in that video were pretty valid, but people were super suspicious because games usually don't get that kind of treatment (though recently I have seen similar stuff about Battlefront)

 

[Rymuth]

Some of those who are quick to jump to the media's defense really show their colors by using the defense "W-wh-what? Must everything be positive?" It's not about positivity, it's the seemingly laser-focused effort to make every Suzuki interview into a goddamn disaster. The original Eurogamer article didn't even focus on the money aspect, yet that's the headline they decided to go with:

So what started as

Suzuki: I could use more money, the game itself doesn't have to be gorgeous~

became the headline

Suzuki: I could do with more money

and evolved into

Shenmue III's 6 million is not enough!

And finally mutated into

Shenmue III needs more of your money, visuals compromised

It's an ugly game of clickbait tag.

 

[Asriel]

They're paying to get shenmue 3 made. Without the kickstart money, the game wouldn't exist.

If you think that Yu suzuki is lying about sony's involvement, then that's cool. I just don't know why you don't just say that instead of acting like they haven't already.

But this what the journalists are questioning, especially with Sony's possible involvement. That statement is what they have an issue with.

 

[Primethius]

Sorry I don't hate Kuchera bro :-/

The endgame is to figure out what's so shameful about any of these articles. I want games press to have a proper amount of negativity and not just be a funnel for PR e-mails and shitty YouTube videos.

Oh boy, if the choice is between PR articles and articles written like this...

I believe we're all fucked.

 

[Stephen Stills]

Or do you just want to continue with your sniping posts putting down gamers and Shenmue fans?

You think all this isn't going to end up in a "Shenmue fans are violent harassing psychopaths!" article?

 

[marrec]

OK then how about pointing out how his article is in any way "well-researched" or an example of good skepticism and fair negativity?

Or do you just want to continue with your sniping posts putting down gamers and Shenmue fans?

I excluded his opinion article when I said most of them were "well researched". I specifically excluded it because it's a stupid opinion article from a middling writer whose claim to fame is being controversial.

I'll try to stop sniping at Shenmue fans though. And don't worry, I backed the game, you can check my twitter feed I dropped 120 bucks on it the night of the Sony Presser. I'm excited as hell for more Shenmue, but I'm also skeptical of their funding avenue and if it will allow the game to be as good as it could, or if we're going to get a shabby shell of a Shenmue.

 

[Coffee Dog]

But this what the journalists are questioning, especially with Sony's possible involvement. That statement is what they have an issue with.

If we do not reach our funding goal, Shenmue 3 will not go forward.

From the horse's mouth.

If you think he's lying, then that's a fine opinion to have. But you should just say that's your concern, and not that things are "shady" or whatever.

 

[Krejlooc]

But this what the journalists are questioning, especially with Sony's possible involvement. That statement is what they have an issue with.

"Could shenmue 3 have happened without kickstarter" is such an idiotic question. NO, it couldn't have.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

But this what the journalists are questioning, especially with Sony's possible involvement. That statement is what they have an issue with.

The answer is straightforward: If it didn't reach the goal, the game wouldn't happen. It's a fan funded game with no involvement from anyone else but some marketing and good PR. This shit literally takes 30 seconds of Googling.

 

[Stephen Stills]

it's the seemingly laser-focused effort to make every Suzuki interview into a goddamn disaster. The original Eurogamer article didn't even focus on the money aspect, yet that's the headline they decided to go with:

So what started as

Suzuki: I could use more money, the game itself doesn't have to be gorgeous~

became the headline

Suzuki: I could do with more money

and evolved into

Shenmue III's 6 million is not enough!

And finally mutated into

Shenmue III needs more of your money, visuals compromised

It's an ugly game of clickbait tag.

"Shenmue scandal update - Yu Suzuki sleeps nude in an oxygen tank which he believes gives him sexual powers. "

 

[Maintenance]

"Could shenmue 3 have happened without kickstarter" is such an idiotic question. NO, it couldn't have.

Are you sure though? Really, really sure? Aren't you being illiterate?

 

[marrec]

The answer is straightforward: If it didn't reach the goal, the game wouldn't happen. It's a fan funded game with no involvement from anyone else but some marketing and good PR. This shit literally takes 30 seconds of Googling.

That's where you're likely wrong, but neither Suzuki nor Sony nor Shibuya has made this entirely clear.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I wonder if we are going to see the last guardian , shenmue 3 and final fantasy VII remake again in next years E3 , and the one at 2017 and so on.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

But this what the journalists are questioning, especially with Sony's possible involvement. That statement is what they have an issue with.

That was answered though.

 

[Asriel]

The answer is straightforward: If it didn't reach the goal, the game wouldn't happen. It's a fan funded game with no involvement from anyone else but some marketing and good PR. This shit literally takes 30 seconds of Googling.

So because he said it, it is fact? Really? I mean, you can take his word for it.

But Sony's involvement is strange at the very least, IMO.

 

[pastrami]

Yu Suzuki said Sony is helping this game get made though.

I guess my issue is with the reaction to that revelation. First off, we don't really know the level of Sony's involvement, and we already have a statement that Shibuya Productions is the bigger backer here. But we have people acting like this is a Sony production. And we have the inane concept that Sony is somehow pocketing the Kickstarter money.

From Gamesradar: "Sony is indeed partnering on the development of Shenmue 3, with an undisclosed budget. But it felt the need to take a large chunk of public money before it committed. "

And the NeoGAF thread about Sony providing support was awful. People telling Sony to refund the money. People saying the Kickstarter should be cancelled. People saying that Sony/Sega are using this to offset their own production costs. We have no idea about the nature of Sony and Shibuya Productions involvement.

I think this is a completely valid concern to have:

Shenmue 3 is completely unproven and it is totally natural to be skeptical of it due to its flimsy way of funding itself and the seemingly incomplete vision Sazuki has of the game's scope at this time.

The writers of this article would do a disservice to everyone if they painted the situation as normal.

But so much of the conversation seems to be focused around Sony providing backing (even though they aren't even the largest backer of the project).

And for the record, I have never played a Shenmue game.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

You would think game journos would understand what it would take to find a game like Shenmue III, even on a low end, and that the Kickstarter money isn't enough forgot that alone. The game may be in serious trouble, and it may not be what fans wanted, but do we really know enough yet to substantiate the claims?

 

[twobear]

They're paying to get shenmue 3 made. Without the kickstart money, the game wouldn't exist.

If you think that Yu suzuki is lying about sony's involvement, then that's cool. I just don't know why you don't just say that instead of acting like they haven't already.

I don't really understand why you keep saying this. All I'm saying is that I think that companies asking for Kickstarter funding should be transparent about what it is the backers are actually funding.

Put it this way; there's a difference between 'all and only the money accrued from Kickstarter and other donation platforms will be used on games development', and 'the Kickstarter campaign was a way to gauge public interest in Shenmue III and other, more significant sources of funding will be secured on the back of its success (or lack thereof)'. I guess if you've been waiting for Shenmue III for over a decade, that kind of difference isn't really significant (except that you had better hope, if you want a Shenmue III with modern production values, that it's not the former). But it's still a pretty significant difference in the intent and scope of the Kickstarter; it basically turns it into a petition that you have to pay to sign.

 

[Ol No Bones]

why do people beat around the push when they just want to say "I think Yu Suzuki is lying and Sony is helping this game get made."

I thought Sony was helping get the game made. I mean they helped with the kickstarter at least. Did Suzuki say they weren't helping or something?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

No it wasn't. Nothing was a mess except the concern trolling from people arguing from their gut about "ethics in game funding (tm)"

.... I really don't think you want to take this in that direction.

 

[cmChimera]

As someone not big on Shenmue, this thread is interesting.

As an outside observer, the kickstarter seems a bit shady. Media writes articles about it. Fans mad about articles.

I'm not saying cancel your support, but you may just want to question the process a bit.

 

[breakYODAy]

Isn't a lot of the criticism was the way this was pushed as a Kickstarter? The back and forth confusion - at first - between if the game was fully being backed by fans, or Sony was going to do most of it?

I felt rubbed the wrong way with how it was revealed. Far different from Yooka-Laylee and Bloodstained.

This Shenmue Kickstarter was always going have to go through considerable hoops to even exist, things that Yooka-Laylee and Bloodstained didn't have to deal with. No one wanted to play a 'spiritual successor' successor to Shenmue, they wanted to continue the story that ended on a cliffhanger.

Because of this, a bunch of deals had to be made that prevent a full dollar-for-dollar disclosure of who's funding what and who holds this or that trademark, license, etc. These are problems caused by a wholly unique, and likely never to be repeated crowdfunding arrangement.

It was a complicated topic to cover, but rather than go out and get the info they needed to write the best possible articles, the gaming press rushed to snap judgements based on assumptions rather than facts. Other Kickstarters have not had to deal with negativity based on speculation like this.

 

[Haunted]

I'm super happy this exists, I did my part spreading the word, I'm happy to see another Shenmue game, happy that they had some support from Sony. I think the KS proved that there are a lot of loyal fans of Shenmue out there that put their money where their mouths are. It's a big success story no matter how you look at it.


That said, here's my biggest problem with Shenmue 3: they're not going to finish the story. After all these years, they get the chance to finish the story in videogame form, and they are choosing not to take that opportunity, leaving fans with another cliffhanger.

That is insanity to me.

 

[Aaron D.]

Thanks! But I was thinking more along the lines of links to shitty games media coverage of the game. Or is it just that it never gets any coverage?

The latter.

RPS has the occasional Wot I Think segment for the more popular, funny Mundane Vehicle Simulators, but that's about it.

Outside of that, you wouldn't even know they exist.

 

[Krejlooc]

So because he said it, it is fact? Really? I mean, you can take his word for it..

Did you seriously just post this after saying

I can see that you are Shenmue fan, but try and look at this objectively.

There are 14 years worth of interviews from both yu suzuki and sega detailing the struggle to get this game funded. No, it was never happening if not for kickstarter. It was a hail mary.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I don't really understand why you keep saying this. All I'm saying is that I think that companies asking for Kickstarter funding should be transparent about what it is the backers are actually funding.

Put it this way; there's a difference between 'all and only the money accrued from Kickstarter and other donation platforms will be used on games development', and 'the Kickstarter campaign was a way to gauge public interest in Shenmue III and other, more significant sources of funding will be secured on the back of its success (or lack thereof)'. I guess if you've been waiting for Shenmue III for over a decade, that kind of difference isn't really significant (except that you had better hope, if you want a Shenmue III with modern production values, that it's not the former). But it's still a pretty significant difference in the intent and scope of the Kickstarter; it basically turns it into a petition that you have to pay to sign.

so you think yu suzuki is lying and that sony is secretly funding the game

it's cool to have that opinion

just say it

 

[Mass_Pincup]

So because he said it, it is fact? Really? I mean, you can take his word for it.

But Sony's involvement is strange at the very least, IMO.

Here's Adam Boyes clarifying Sony's involvement: https://youtu.be/-dL198n2d0o?t=25s

 

[Puck Beaverton]

That said, here's my biggest problem with Shenmue 3: they're not going to finish the story. After all these years, they get the chance to finish the story in videogame form, and they are choosing not to take it, leaving fans with another cliffhanger.

That is insanity to me.

So is it confirmed 3 isn't ending the story?

 

[twobear]

so you think yu suzuki is lying and that sony is secretly funding the game

it's cool to have that opinion

just say it

I don't have any opinions on that; do you think you could either respond without ignoring what I'm actually saying, or stop wasting my time?

 

[Apharmd]

But this what the journalists are questioning, especially with Sony's possible involvement. That statement is what they have an issue with.

And I don't see why they should be questioning that. As a die-hard Shenmue fan, it's a very dumb business move to finance Shenmue III. The brand is pretty dang toxic and has consistently shown itself to be a leader in losing money. This isn't TLOU or a Final Fantasy, it's a SEGA flagship title that has proven to be a financial bomb time and time again.

 

[Shenmue]

I excluded his opinion article when I said most of them were "well researched". I specifically excluded it because it's a stupid opinion article from a middling writer whose claim to fame is being controversial.

I'll try to stop sniping at Shenmue fans though. And don't worry, I backed the game, you can check my twitter feed I dropped 120 bucks on it the night of the Sony Presser. I'm excited as hell for more Shenmue, but I'm also skeptical of their funding avenue and if it will allow the game to be as good as it could, or if we're going to get a shabby shell of a Shenmue.

I think it's fine to be skeptical about the funding. I think a lot of us Shenmue fans believe that is actually a huge part of the screw-up with this campaign. Actually a lot of the additional info we got while the KS was ongoing was because of a lot of the rightful criticism and investigation in the form of people hounding the people in charge for clarification.

As of right now, we've reached an impasse as to obtaining further details because it's been made clear that Sony's involvement is wrapped up in NDA language, which is understandable I feel. No business venture will ever give you a detailed accounting of the source of funding and how much each source is providing unless you are a shareholder. What we do know is that Sony is helping out at least somewhat, even if it's just marketing or publishing (if Sony didn't at least some of the funds would eventually have to go towards that, so it's all money).

The problem is many of those articles have nothing to do with whether Sony is involved or not.

 

[kitchenmotors]

"Please don't badmouth Shenmue III" is what I'm hearing from the OP.
The links linked are all pretty much legitimate concerns/points IMO

Exactly.

I understand this is a franchise that is beloved, but sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring legitimate concerns is a bit immature. Having articles that don't read like PR pieces shouldn't be looked down upon, as long as it's not straight up trolling or reads like a GAF post.

And these articles do not.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

That's where you're likely wrong, but neither Suzuki nor Sony nor Shibuya has made this entirely clear.

Adam Boyes literally said that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dL198n2d0o

Stop pretending that Sony and Yu Suzuki is lying to you in some sort of conspiracy. The answers are right there.

 

[Stephen Stills]

I'm super happy this exists, I did my part spreading the word, I'm happy to see another Shenmue game, happy that they had some support from Sony. I think the KS proved that there are a lot of loyal fans of Shenmue out there that put their money where their mouths are. It's a big success story no matter how you look at it.


That said, here's my biggest problem with Shenmue 3: they're not going to finish the story. After all these years, they get the chance to finish the story in videogame form, and they are choosing not to take that opportunity, leaving fans with another cliffhanger.

That is insanity to me.

Really? I had the exact opposite reaction, I'm glad he's sticking to the original vision/concept. If there isn't a part IV, having the series end on another cliffhanger sounds preferable to trying to rush and squeeze chapters 7-13 of the story all into one game and ruining it.

 

[Krejlooc]

So is it confirmed 3 isn't ending the story?

Its not ending the story

 

[Coffee Dog]

I thought Sony was helping get the game made. I mean they helped with the kickstarter at least. Did Suzuki say they weren't helping or something?

If we do not reach our funding goal, Shenmue 3 will not go forward.

Sony is obviously not helping in any significant way.

 

[Haunted]

So is it confirmed 3 isn't ending the story?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZm-HzCVzL4&t=42m40s

Straight from Yu Suzuki.

Really? I had the exact opposite reaction, I'm glad he's sticking to the original vision/concept. If there isn't a part IV, having the series end on another cliffhanger sounds preferable to trying to rush and squeeze chapters 7-13 of the story all into one game and ruining it.

I think he had over a decade of trying to think how to finish telling this story in a single game, and I'm absolutely shocked that they're choosing to not finish this.

I can see the argument for trying to keep the scope of the original story intact, but I believe in grasping the opportunity to finish things over not cutting/restructuring anything. This is subjective, of course and I can see the arguments for either side.

 

[Primethius]

Exactly.

I understand this is a franchise that is beloved, but sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring legitimate concerns is a bit immature. Having articles that don't read like PR pieces shouldn't be looked down upon, as long as it's not straight up trolling or reads like a GAF post.

And these articles do not.

I think you should actually look at some of the articles that the OP quoted. They are pretty damn bad.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I don't have any opinions on that; do you think you could either respond without ignoring what I'm actually saying, or stop wasting my time?

It's something that was already clarified. It's not a hypothetical, like you're suggesting.

 

[Shenmue]

So is it confirmed 3 isn't ending the story?

Nothing's confirmed until we actually see that ending of the game ourselves or until the game's finished and Yu says "nope this doesn't end the story", but yes he has stated that in his vision 3 is not the end.

 

[ShenmueNextGen]

A guide on how to make corrupted gaming journalism not click-baiting with article's headlines about your game:

1. Bribe them! If you do it, then there won't be a need for them to click-bait! In actuality, it is advertorialism. Clicks generate profits for them by the ads on their site. Therefore! If you bribe them, the money they will lose from the ads [because of the low number of clicks, because the article won't be that sensationally inducing for a read and/or (rage-)commenting], they will take it from you, and thus they won't dramatize in your face!
2. Be part of their clique! Share the same interests, promote the same propaganda, in order as a team to lead the general mass public to think like how you want them to think! That way, the vast majority will always agree on your sayings and take your side. At the end, they will start to look like you, and thus freely promote and spread your (negative) mentality throughout the net. Be a good shepherd and lead the sheep with your trumpet!

Hope that will help you in your destiny to conquer reviews and exposure in the gaming media! Good luck!