Definitely clicked with me, its really fun to shoot things in this game.
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[Kotaku] The Messy, True Story Behind The Making Of Destiny
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
Definitely clicked with me, its really fun to shoot things in this game.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
I wonder if they will move to a middle-wear engine with Destiny 2? Sounds like whatever they have built for themselves is a bit of a disaster, but who's to say a third party solution would really help them at this point.
In late 2016 can they really expect to release a 30fps shooter with all the other shooters out pushing 60fps? I can't imagine it not being a disaster this time.
ScatheZombie
Member
I've only worked in two proprietary engines (my other projects used off-the-shelf ones - Gamebryo, Unreal, etc.) and both of them had similar issues. Game engine development takes so much time and resources that by the time your engineers simply have something functional, management wants you to start actually building a game with it. They aren't given time for optimizations to the process - whereas something like Unreal or Frostbite spends years working on improving the end-user experience. Also, when you need an engineer to improve the development process or update the tools, they have to come off something else they are working on - with third party engines, you can get outside development support to help with that. I've never had one take 8 hours to load, but one recent game in particular took about 30 minutes to load a local server. Which you had to do twice, once prior to making your changes in order to load all the current data, then make your change, then reload everything with your local data in order to check that it worked. So a 30 second data change takes a minimum of an hour (when done properly). But what really ends up happening is everyone just stops checking their work to save time - which, as you can imagine, just led to more bugs.
Activision wants Destiny to be a yearly franchise. Most of their other yearly franchises cycle between two development studios to give each of them two years of development time to work while still producing a new product every 12 months. The last I heard from the people I know at Bungie was that they had not really started working on Destiny 2 yet outside of concepts and narrative (granted I haven't talked to them in about 2 months). If a "Destiny 2" game is expected in Fall/Holiday 2016, then Bungie is going to, at a minimum, need a ton of outside help to get it done.
Honestly, and this is just my experience, it has been (for the projects I worked on) because of an egotistical Technical Director who thinks they can do it better. Or doesn't believe that converting your proprietary prototype to an existing engine will be 'worth it' compared to continuing to expand upon the makeshift engine they slapped together to run the original prototype. I have yet to see them be right about that.
In most cases, it's 0%. Pretty much every off-the-shelf engine has a licensing contract that's a large up-front fee ($100k or more) and no royalties. The contracts that have royalties are super-cheap or free but take (typically) 5-7% of sales revenue. Developing an in-house engine is extremely cost prohibitive, by comparison, in +90% of the cases. Third party developers aren't struggling because of engine costs, nor do all of them use third party engines.
LifEndz
Member
A lot of that probably is due to launching when they did. Was there really any competition for Destiny? Not sure it could've fared as well if vanilla destiny came out this holiday period.
This makes sense. With their messed up engine they clearly had a lot of trouble releasing those DLC packs which even then didn't have an acceptable amount of content in my view.
With micro transactions they can keep the revenue coming in while potentially making a lot less content in comparison to making a whole DLC pack. They can then use more resources on Destiny 2 too.
Kor of Memory
Member
I mean, this is par for the Bungie course, though. They have a pretty regular track record of dreaming way bigger than they can actually achieve. Not that this is a bad thing, just that it's normal for them.
Remember how Halo 1 was in Development hell forever. The last level is clearly a forerunner structure, yet it pretends to be the human ship.
Remember how Halo 2 ended in a cliff hanger? Because Bungie couldn't find enough time to fit all what would eventually be Halo 3 into Halo 2, plus a boss fight with the Gravemind.
I could go on, but you get the picture. Bungie always dreams big, and has to reel it in, usually making some pretty substantial cuts along the way.
GlamFM
Banned
Your avatar is ironic, given that one of the most notable examples was Obsidian, which was to get a bonus if Fallout: New Vegas hit an 85 on Metacritic.
It got an 84.
benicillin
Banned
Cosmetic microtransactions are literally like the best form of DLC available. If it helps fund further content for the game that we don't have to pay for it's a net positive for everyone.
Great article by Jason though. Pretty much confirms what we all thought. Either way, I've enjoyed my time with Destiny even if my desire to play it is dwindling, I'll be there day one for a sequel.
I agree, it's okay how it's implemented now, but making it seem like bungie didn't have malicious intent in the first place is laughable for the new bungie at this point.
If they could get away with it they would.
Especially that they proposed an alternative revenue stream to help fund free releases throughout the year. Clearly they're not so greedy after all.
Also it's laughable to even compare the scope of Halo to Destiny. I've been a Bungie fan since Marathon and Myth, and their design ethos has always rung true. Destiny feels a lot like all of their games, to the point of parody at times.
GlamFM
Banned
I´m disagreeing with you as hard as i can.
are destiny fans supposed to be mad about optional microtransactions? It's fucking dances. the second it starts effecting the actual game is when I'm going to get pissed.
qa_engineer
Member
Sure most people are having fun with this game, myself included, but it pains me to think what this game was and could have been. Sigh.
JigglesBunny
Banned
Holy shit, that explains it.
I actually feel bad for some at Bungie... (especially Staten)
But fuck em' for the microtransactions stuff and the engine coders who couldn't engineer a capable toolset.
I actually feel bad for some at Bungie... (especially Staten)
But fuck em' for the microtransactions stuff and the engine coders who couldn't engineer a capable toolset.
The engine itself is far from a disaster. The game has some great tech. But the workflow/toolchain needs to improve (alot).
Obliterator
Member
Man if it really is a 2016 game I really am worried about its quality. Pumping out a sequel to a game that frankly was such a mess at launch in only 2 years while doing DLC at the same time is a huge chore
I can only hope theyve somewhat fixed that engine
Gnome Scat
Member
I knew it! I hope the original script or the supercut gets leaked, I'd love to see what Staten was working on.
That Bungie died by Halo ODST.
Anyways, It doesnt take away what many of us said before, there is no problem with them selling those if its means more free content in the future, if they are selling dances and cosmetic stuff I dont care about it, the problem comes when it becomes Pay to Win.
soul creator
Member
that tools quote literally made me shudder
Twilight Gap
Member
It's one thing to read rumors and throw endless fantasy and speculation around, but to read official stuff and then look at the game we got...
Disheartening.
I was suspicious about most of this, but when all of that is removed because the story is too linear....
I dunno. A bad story is better than no story and a game full of content is better than one that's selling it back in pieces. It looks like everything wrong with this game (aside from that surprising news about their engine) came from that one supercut screening.
I love this game but this has set the exit stage for me. I hope they can get it right in the sequels. When you catch a glimpse of what Destiny was supposed to be, it's truly unlike any game I've ever played. I don't want a piece of the pie though, and I'm done watching it dangle in my face.
Get it right next time Bungie.
Disheartening.
I was suspicious about most of this, but when all of that is removed because the story is too linear....
I dunno. A bad story is better than no story and a game full of content is better than one that's selling it back in pieces. It looks like everything wrong with this game (aside from that surprising news about their engine) came from that one supercut screening.
I love this game but this has set the exit stage for me. I hope they can get it right in the sequels. When you catch a glimpse of what Destiny was supposed to be, it's truly unlike any game I've ever played. I don't want a piece of the pie though, and I'm done watching it dangle in my face.
Get it right next time Bungie.
An excellent read that was. Everything, from the Vanilla game to the Taken King sounds like it was such a mess, with the reboots and reorganisations and slow engine to build on.
If Bungie can learn from this for Destiny 2, on top of the other things they've learned, I'm really looking forward to what they have next.
If Bungie can learn from this for Destiny 2, on top of the other things they've learned, I'm really looking forward to what they have next.
Did you read your comment before you posted it. You are complaining about cosmetic micro transactions.
It's honestly the best MT model I can think of... To me, it's better than the GTAV MT model... it's better than the Halo 5 MT model... It's better than the Last of US PvP MT model... it's much better than the Ass Creed MT model... all of those are NOT cosmetic only... I expect Destiny to have cosmetic only MTs and maybe later it will have quick level booster MTs... and in exchange we get free DLC. I'm OK with that. It's similar to the Guild Wars 2 model.
It's the direction the industry is going with large budget titles unfortunately. If you play big budget games these days then most of them have MTs sadly...
I don't see any appreciable difference on the release timing. Hundreds of games came and went, like any other year.
Call of Duties, Assassin Creeds, Battlefields.
Yes, there was competition for Destiny. It hasn't been going for over a year due to not having competition.
I don't typically do this, but I remembered you specifically from the Halo 5 Req Packs thread:
What's the big difference in the two approaches, save for the fact that Bungie's microtransactions so far do not involve RNG and do not involve game-impacting features in any game mode?
Non existent.
Isn't your beloved 343 doing the same thing? It's ok when they do it right? Lmao come on man we are all getting free content, get out of here with the spoon and stir posts
Would be super-interesting to see that scrapped 'supercut'. Too campy? I really, really have a hard time believing it was worse than what we got.
The game itself ended up pretty good all things considered, and has obviously been much improved since release. But man, Bungie is just such a mess. What is with them and scrapping and revamping huge parts of their games in the last year of development? You'd think they'd learn from their previous mistakes but it just doesn't seem to be the case.
The game itself ended up pretty good all things considered, and has obviously been much improved since release. But man, Bungie is just such a mess. What is with them and scrapping and revamping huge parts of their games in the last year of development? You'd think they'd learn from their previous mistakes but it just doesn't seem to be the case.
same. I guess it's this, or a subscription based model.
Played on release in 2014 for a solid month straight or more and quit cold turkey. To this day I have this desire to play again but never do.
The gameplay is obviously amazing but games are more then just gameplay and the story was such a let down. And knowing, from this article, that not only is the story still just piecemeal-ed together and that Bungie is completely inundated with deadlines because Activision wants releases yearly, I just can't see a proper future for this game to justify me placing money down on it again.
I've really been burned by companies recently, last being BF4+Season Pass on release. I ignored BF Hardline and most likely will ignore Star Wars Battlefront (played the beta and was disappointed by it for reasons I don't have time to post now)
Thank goodness for games like Transformers Devastation and Bloodborne. Solid game play, fun stories, great graphics.
The gameplay is obviously amazing but games are more then just gameplay and the story was such a let down. And knowing, from this article, that not only is the story still just piecemeal-ed together and that Bungie is completely inundated with deadlines because Activision wants releases yearly, I just can't see a proper future for this game to justify me placing money down on it again.
I've really been burned by companies recently, last being BF4+Season Pass on release. I ignored BF Hardline and most likely will ignore Star Wars Battlefront (played the beta and was disappointed by it for reasons I don't have time to post now)
Thank goodness for games like Transformers Devastation and Bloodborne. Solid game play, fun stories, great graphics.
Yup, having confirmation on what happened doesn't make Destiny less disappointing. It's still up there in my top 5 all-time gaming disappointments alongside stuff like Deus Ex 2, DMC 2, and the SSX reboot.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Indeed. Totally disappointing result. Glad I've washed my hands of it, though I wish Bungie luck in trying to redeem their property given how fucking busted it is.
Kor of Memory
Member
Oh, stop being so dramatic. You'll be back in like a month.
Jason keeps delivering.
Them replacing a story that no way could have been worse than what is in the actual game and having the goddamn Diablo 3 devs coming in and showing them how it's done is fucking hilarious.
And the people who said "This is what it should have been day 1" after they played The Taking King were actually spot on: this was supposed to be in the original.
Them replacing a story that no way could have been worse than what is in the actual game and having the goddamn Diablo 3 devs coming in and showing them how it's done is fucking hilarious.
And the people who said "This is what it should have been day 1" after they played The Taking King were actually spot on: this was supposed to be in the original.
You guys misunderstood what I was saying.
The way it's inplemented right now? Perfect. Keep it that way.
Those non cosmetic data mined files were bungles ideas, THATS what I'm upset about. That they would even think of doing that and it was all their idea alone.
if they could get away with it, they would.
Everybody was saying it was activision, but it was bungie all along.
The way it's inplemented right now? Perfect. Keep it that way.
Those non cosmetic data mined files were bungles ideas, THATS what I'm upset about. That they would even think of doing that and it was all their idea alone.
if they could get away with it, they would.
Everybody was saying it was activision, but it was bungie all along.
Twilight Gap
Member
Back to what? The game I want to play is the one I just read about, and the game I liked playing in spite of that disappeared with The Taken King. If it takes Bungie 8 hours to move a patrol beacon, then it'll take them 8 weeks to fix half of the problems I have with the game.
They booted Staten's story and told David Cross they weren't interested in his stuff. Brilliant. Great moves, Bungie.
Of course it's Bungie. Activision only has so much say. Just like MS only had so much say. Bungie makes the calls. If you love something, it's Bungie. If you dislike something it's also Bungie. Unfortunately there's far more to hate in Destiny than there is to love at this point. They're still working through it all.
Of course it's Bungie. Activision only has so much say. Just like MS only had so much say. Bungie makes the calls. If you love something, it's Bungie. If you dislike something it's also Bungie. Unfortunately there's far more to hate in Destiny than there is to love at this point. They're still working through it all.
