Diablohead
Member
Charging a flat £20 for the first DLC which was crota's end was really expensive for what content was given with it, turned me off buying destiny DLC for life and i'm sure it scared away others too.
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[Kotaku] The Messy, True Story Behind The Making Of Destiny
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
Charging a flat £20 for the first DLC which was crota's end was really expensive for what content was given with it, turned me off buying destiny DLC for life and i'm sure it scared away others too.
TriangularDuck
Member
honestly, I think Bungie made a lot of the right choices based on this article. If you're building a ten year franchise, it's probably better to keep the story vague at first if your initial cut comes out poorly. Better to have a vague base you can go any direction with than have a direction that may drive future installments of the game in the wrong direction. Spending six months essentially polishing the core gameplay was a fantastic idea - it's why I went from making fun of Destiny in the months before it came out, to pre-ordering it immediately after the demo. The gunplay is/was just that fucking good that it was able to excuse all of Destiny's other flaws in my eyes, and now they're patching up all the other aspects very well with The Taken King.
WrenchNinja
Member
I hope Jones still thinks butchering everything was the right thing to do.
yanipheonu
Member
Ah there we go.
Always knew there was some story for why Destiny turned out the way it did, especially in Year 1. Very interesting.
Seemed a bit cold to the writer,XD I honestly can't see how the story could have been worse than it is now, or hell, worse than most MMO and shooter plots.
Makes you wonder what the original like. Rasputin in an Exo body?! That so cool!
But given the problems, I can see where concetrating of main gameplay rather than story was the right way to go. Better a good game with bad story, than a bad game with good story. And Activision, if Tony Hawk 5 taught us anything, doesn't care about delaying games to make them better.
But hopefully they have this shit figured out by Destiny 2. The fact they've apparently convinced Activision out of their previous expansion plan shows their willing to bump up against them, for some changes.
Always knew there was some story for why Destiny turned out the way it did, especially in Year 1. Very interesting.
Seemed a bit cold to the writer,XD I honestly can't see how the story could have been worse than it is now, or hell, worse than most MMO and shooter plots.
Makes you wonder what the original like. Rasputin in an Exo body?! That so cool!
But given the problems, I can see where concetrating of main gameplay rather than story was the right way to go. Better a good game with bad story, than a bad game with good story. And Activision, if Tony Hawk 5 taught us anything, doesn't care about delaying games to make them better.
But hopefully they have this shit figured out by Destiny 2. The fact they've apparently convinced Activision out of their previous expansion plan shows their willing to bump up against them, for some changes.
RSB
Banned
The gunplay in Destiny is actually quite diffrent from Halo. In fact, I'd say they made it more similar to CoD and other modern console shooters, unfortunately. Really sad to see Bungie sabotaging their own game with all those awful accuracy and movement speed penalties (quite a shame considering how cool the movement options are)
Great article BTW.
I believe they mean in supplement to the 2 small dlcs they would release this year
Bry0
Member
Yup, that is true too.
razgriz417
Member
I'm guessing he's talking about the y2 dlcs that would happen next year. And since its Activision we're talking about, only way for them to get out of that part of the contract is to have a way to make up the "lost" revenue of selling those y2 dlcs
Maybe the moral of the story should be not to make a 10-year plan before the first game even comes out?
How about making a game that reviews and sells well where people enjoy the story and then working on sequels?
In part I agree, its what made the mystery a fun-ish ride, having to piece things together from lore videos helps but goddamn, there's being vague and then there telling you fuck'all
The lore is so dense and rich, it led me to conclude that the senior aren't really the bad guys here, Bungie has often struggled to tell a coherent story, they were somehow able to get away with it for the Halo games.
The general standard of blaming management/business decisions seems to match up with the story being scrapped. But the terrible map editing sounds like straight up bad development. I'd be interested in hearing the positive aspects of what sounds like a terrible set of tools.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Wait, Bungie is committed to an yearly release schedule with Activision (for big expansions or a game)?
WOW.
Expect almost everything being released to have 50% or less of what they originally planned.
So, it's just costing you 120$ for the game that was supposed to be there for 60$.
WOW.
Expect almost everything being released to have 50% or less of what they originally planned.
So, it's just costing you 120$ for the game that was supposed to be there for 60$.
What a mess. Add me to the list that figured a lot of problems were caused by Activision. Bungie really shit the bed on this.
It also confirms my biggest fear. We're going to be drip fed content from the live team. Nothing similar to TDB or HoW. It's what I figured, and it sucks. Here comes the micro transactions.
It also confirms my biggest fear. We're going to be drip fed content from the live team. Nothing similar to TDB or HoW. It's what I figured, and it sucks. Here comes the micro transactions.
Its not like they removed a piece of the game and sat around waiting to sell it back to you down the line - this is an enormous development undertaking where they spent two years reworking existing assets into entirely new functions.
The idea that we were somehow robbed and extorted of content we originally paid for is divorced from everything this well researched article would suggest, not to mention it ignores the reality of game development.
Yeah. Agreed. Suddenly everything makes sense. Like I'm sure load times usually aren't too great when making changes to something that massive but taking 8-9 hours to make changes is crazy.
I'm very pleased with free content being added slowly over time. Hopefully they can really figure out how to right the ship for the 2016 release so the next few years will be much smoother sailing.
Thursday War
Banned
do you not know how to read inside parentheses? it clearly says they'll be helping bungie make the game.
NullPointer
Member
Even if they kept the original story, would we have ended up with the Dreadnought in vanilla Destiny? Or the other locations that were cut?
I've always seen Bungie as a skilled developer house, but not really a quick one.
BumblebeeCody
Member
It's Paul McCartney's fault!
Nocturno999
Member
Looks like they will have to start making Destiny 2 with a new engine and a more coherent plot.
How are they going to make a sequel while keeping the first game alive with fixes and new content?
How are they going to make a sequel while keeping the first game alive with fixes and new content?
They have another company helping them make the sequel, so the burden isn't completely on Destiny. Outsourcing stuff and all that. You only need a (comparative) handful of people working on the content right now and in the future since the next major release is going to be the 2016 sequel.
Alebrije
Member
Wow , a 10 year project. That is why you can not have a focus plot and story since the begining.
They tried to go beyong and ended losing time and credibily , why you want to run if you can not even walk.
I find very difficult to get a 10 years project universe like Star Wars since the begining , why did Jorge Lucas keep making SW movies ? Because the first one was a hit. You start with a hit and then move to the next one , walk then run.
They tried to go beyong and ended losing time and credibily , why you want to run if you can not even walk.
I find very difficult to get a 10 years project universe like Star Wars since the begining , why did Jorge Lucas keep making SW movies ? Because the first one was a hit. You start with a hit and then move to the next one , walk then run.
NullPointer
Member
And since the story was recreated from near scratch, I guess the rumors about the grimoire cards being a relatively last minute effort have even more of a ring of truth to them.
Mmm, can't wait for next week's Bombcast.
More seriously, the microtransaction vs DLC model continues to sound disappointing to me. I want those two DLC drops each year in addition to the major releases. I hope that whatever content they drip feed out instead ends up being as substantial, but I have serious doubts about that. It does sound like it was absolutely necessary given the development situation at the studio though - the schedule they were on along with those tools doesn't sound sustainable.
Also, a Mars raid sounds fascinating. I've been wanting a raid against the Cabal since the beginning - I think they'd have some fantastic encounters.
More seriously, the microtransaction vs DLC model continues to sound disappointing to me. I want those two DLC drops each year in addition to the major releases. I hope that whatever content they drip feed out instead ends up being as substantial, but I have serious doubts about that. It does sound like it was absolutely necessary given the development situation at the studio though - the schedule they were on along with those tools doesn't sound sustainable.
Also, a Mars raid sounds fascinating. I've been wanting a raid against the Cabal since the beginning - I think they'd have some fantastic encounters.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
But Luminous Engine looks sooo good!!
I wish we could have a piece like that on FFXV, I'd even pay for it.
I'm sure bungie is not the only place to have that work environment
Being a dev sounds like it sucks
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
The likelihood that we'll see 3 or 4 year old content in later expansions promoted as "new content" blows my fucking mind.
FF Seraphim
Member
Let me get this straight... Activision were not the bad guys, almost every bad decision was by Bungie themselves... Wtf...
I mean if they keep up with how Taken King is and keep improving it will be fine... But god damn what a rocky start. Let's hope they just create a whole new engine for Destiny 2.
I mean if they keep up with how Taken King is and keep improving it will be fine... But god damn what a rocky start. Let's hope they just create a whole new engine for Destiny 2.
R_thanatos
Member
The main appeal for dev tools these days is efficiency and speed... so i can't imagine how bad this could have been to make destiny with tools like these.
Were they making destiny on pentium 1 with 3dfx voodoo cards or something ???
This is so slow.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Paying circa £200 to get close to the original vision for Destiny 1 (thats before any of the intended "comets") highlights just how content starved Destiny was and how much they fucked up.
Without the "we made Halo! HALO!" protection shield, this studio would be dead. All the more depressing when hugely talented and efficient studios like High Moon are just folded into making more Destiny bilge with broken tools.
You'd have to retrain everybody anyway.. might as well own your whole stack.
It's a growing pain EVERY engine goes through.
This isn't going to happen and hasn't happened. Can't equivalize "was a post it note on a whiteboard" as "actual, fully functioning geometry, voice acting, AI encounters and scripting"
Branniganz Love
Member
Can't wait for all the PR before Destiny 2 launches where the vaguely allude to making mistakes with Destiny and talking about how they have learned from their past mistakes and how Destiny 2 is going to be the best ever and blah blah blah...
Guess what Bungie? I wont believe you.
Guess what Bungie? I wont believe you.
Good article, and fills in a lot of blanks to a story we knew only the outlines of. I had wondered whether Staten left before or during the big rewrite, and this confirms the gutting of his story was the prompting for his exodus.
Bungie has long had struggles with the story in their games; Halo 2 and 3 went through big rewrites / edits late in development as well, but none that impacted the core game the way this one did. It contextualizes a lot about the missions, character and story bits that were left in.
Bungie has long had struggles with the story in their games; Halo 2 and 3 went through big rewrites / edits late in development as well, but none that impacted the core game the way this one did. It contextualizes a lot about the missions, character and story bits that were left in.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Sure, buddy. Keep telling yourself that.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
No, it's the opposite of that. The locations were cut because they weren't finished and couldn't be finished in time.
You didn't find them in Halo 2 because Bungie had tools to remove unused data in both Halo 2 and 3. But yes, Halo 3 is basically Halo 2's third act they had to chop off. Of course it wasn't DONE (because they would have shipped it), but it was prototyped.
Floodgate and Cortana in Halo 3 were essentially fully modeled in Halo 2.
.. we only know this because Bungie writes postmortems a couple of years later, where they said the level was too big and it was cut into two pieces - the "intro" version in Floodgate and the rest became Cortana.
The reason you can find "future" geometry in Destiny is because Bungie has always made geometry first before any encounters are placed. They had to cut an entire, geometry complete level that never appeared again because they ran out of time to place the encounters in Halo 2. In the current mode of development, it's easier to just leave in-progress content in the build than rip it out.
Heck, a couple of the supposedly 'dlc on disc' locations were thrown out and replaced in the actual patch that let us go to those locations (like the Terminus on Venus).
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I think this highlights how lucky Bungie were with Destiny, most studios would have died after this clusterfuck and their games another failure in the AAA industry.
DrROBschiz
Member
Maybe they made the right call focusing on gameplay and fixing the story later
biosnake20
Member
How many of halo 3's levels were already prototyped in halo 2?You didn't find them in Halo 2 because Bungie had tools to remove unused data in both Halo 2 and 3. But yes, Halo 3 is basically Halo 2's third act they had to chop off. Of course it wasn't DONE (because they would have shipped it), but it was prototyped.
Floodgate and Cortana in Halo 3 were essentially fully modeled in Halo 2.
.. we only know this because Bungie writes postmortems a couple of years later, where they said the level was too big and it was cut into two pieces - the "intro" version in Floodgate and the rest became Cortana.
The reason you can find "future" geometry in Destiny is because Bungie has always made geometry first before any encounters are placed. They had to cut an entire, geometry complete level that never appeared again because they ran out of time to place the encounters in Halo 2. In the current mode of development, it's easier to just leave in-progress content in the build than rip it out.
Heck, a couple of the supposedly 'dlc on disc' locations were thrown out and replaced in the actual patch that let us go to those locations (like the Terminus on Venus).
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Or maybe the millions of money pumped up in the marketing helped to give air to a game in such an unfinished state and so poorly thought out loot and endgame systems in place.