Which sounds AWESOME.
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WSJ: Nintendo Begins Distributing Software Kit for NX (Console + Handheld units)
- Thread starter killercow
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Which sounds AWESOME.
Orniletter
Banned
Nirolak explained in one of the Mediacreate threads how the whole manufacturing of discs for console vendors thing works.
Paraphrasing here:
Basically, a third party publisher pays 10 $/€ per disk, the 10 bucks include licensing and manufacturing fees . It's 10 bucks per disk weather the thirdparty wants to sell it for 60 or for 40 bucks.
I'm sure 10 bucks per copy would be enough to offset the increased price of the hypothetical cartridge medium and still make Nintendo some money on fees.
Yes, that would eat into their ...already....slim licensing fees, but the pros (omission of diskdrive in the console, only one SKU etc.) would far, far outweight the cons .
Cartridges for homeconsoles really aren't unfeasable anymore.
Paraphrasing here:
Basically, a third party publisher pays 10 $/€ per disk, the 10 bucks include licensing and manufacturing fees . It's 10 bucks per disk weather the thirdparty wants to sell it for 60 or for 40 bucks.
I'm sure 10 bucks per copy would be enough to offset the increased price of the hypothetical cartridge medium and still make Nintendo some money on fees.
Yes, that would eat into their ...already....slim licensing fees, but the pros (omission of diskdrive in the console, only one SKU etc.) would far, far outweight the cons .
Cartridges for homeconsoles really aren't unfeasable anymore.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I actually think Nintendo will stop them from putting their games on the NX even if they offer to bring these games over tbh LOL
Which I don't get why right now.
My point is that people need to chill out, ya know. The reason why DS and Wii succeeded IMO is because Iwata took Yamauchi's ideas and twisted them into something more. I think Kimishima can do the same here, because Nintendo always seems to evolve and do better when someone new comes in and twists something about them just a little bit.
Aunoma taking over for Miyamoto gave us Ocarina of Time
Miyamoto looking at Metroid Prime gave us first person
There are tons of examples of Nintendo taking it to the next level with someone twisted a pre-existing focus.
The gimmick doesn't necessarily have to be physical. Personally I hope they do a Nintendoflix, I'll gadly pay up to 25 a month to have their whole 1st party library always available.
My dream scenario for NX would be
NX Handheld
Flip design similar to DS, you can slide the screen down also to make it like a iPhone
Single screen 540p. Capacitive touchscreen, no 3D
4x more powerful than Vita
Dual clickable Analogou sliders and L2/R2 button
Not backwards compatible however old games rereleased digitally and reworked to work on 1 screen
Mobile games release first on this before iOS and Android
Games delivered digitally and cartridges
Price - £230
NX Console
Slightly more powerful than PS4
Standard controller similar to PS4
All NX Handheld games compatible (system has cartridge slot) games will also perform better
NX Console exclusives games (system still has Bluray drive for really demanding games)
Account system and cross games buy, saves
Price - £270
NX Console launch fall 2016
Super Mario NX
Metroid FPS NX
Zelda (also available on WiiU)
3rd party games
NX Handheld launch mid 2017
Super Mario Maker 2
Monster Hunter V
Pokémon Generation 8
More 3rd party games
- note all games compatible with NX Console with better graphics
Fall 2017 Games
Mario Kart 9 (cross buy)
Splatoon 2 (cross buy)
Bayonetta 3 (NX Console only)
NX Handheld
Flip design similar to DS, you can slide the screen down also to make it like a iPhone
Single screen 540p. Capacitive touchscreen, no 3D
4x more powerful than Vita
Dual clickable Analogou sliders and L2/R2 button
Not backwards compatible however old games rereleased digitally and reworked to work on 1 screen
Mobile games release first on this before iOS and Android
Games delivered digitally and cartridges
Price - £230
NX Console
Slightly more powerful than PS4
Standard controller similar to PS4
All NX Handheld games compatible (system has cartridge slot) games will also perform better
NX Console exclusives games (system still has Bluray drive for really demanding games)
Account system and cross games buy, saves
Price - £270
NX Console launch fall 2016
Super Mario NX
Metroid FPS NX
Zelda (also available on WiiU)
3rd party games
NX Handheld launch mid 2017
Super Mario Maker 2
Monster Hunter V
Pokémon Generation 8
More 3rd party games
- note all games compatible with NX Console with better graphics
Fall 2017 Games
Mario Kart 9 (cross buy)
Splatoon 2 (cross buy)
Bayonetta 3 (NX Console only)
That's a dream alright.
If it had a card slot, why should it use an inferior blu ray drive for "demanding" games?
Apart of being cheaper and playing blu ray movies, a cartridge performs write/read operations on a whole different level.
A cartridge slot would mean it'd run cooler and would require less space to box/ship. I don't know if it'd be straight up cheaper than putting in a disc drive, but there are definitely other advantages to it. A cartridge slot would also mean not having to install every retail-bought game to a HDD/SD card. It might also mean a severe reduction in Day 1 patches/size.
PdotMichael
Banned
Goalposts? Looking for enemies?
You could also argue that the NDS was pretty much on the right way if even companies like Rockstar developed games for it.
Fourth Storm
Member
Iwata knew that too.
Iwata said:
That's from February of this year. Nintendo engaging in a war w/ Sony and MS of "how many games do we put up for free" would not be beneficial. Especially since there would be those who argue that old 8-bit games and whathaveyou shouldn't count for as much as a PS1 or PS2 game. I can already picture it.
wasn't there a point in the patent thread about updates and patches being able to be downloaded directly to the cartridge instead of the console?
maybe Nintendo is moving to a largely digital-only ecosystem while giving the option to those that prefer physical media to buy a cartridge version of the game and have it be completey up-to-date on the actual cartridge itself.
there are a lot of people who prefer to own physical versions of games but in recent years one of the main benefits has been nullified due to frequent patches, updates, and DLC. perhaps Nintendo is addressing that with the NX while also moving the majority of consumers who may not care about that stuff to buy digitally.
Fourth Storm
Member
In the end, if it's slightly less or slightly more powerful than PS4, it amounts to mere bragging points. Gamecube and PS2 had some of the best looking games of that generation despite being less powerful than the OG Xbox. I have to believe they're aiming for the same ballpark as PS4 and at least Xbone. Here's a relevant quote from Iwata:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/141030qa/03.html
We have seen time and again that when the specs of competing boxes are within a certain closeness of one another, hardware power ceases to be much of a factor in determining marketshare. They will not aim to slightly edge out PS4, as some are hoping they do.
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
Oops!
It would be cheaper, both at manufacturing and with repairs/warranty. Solid state media has so many inherent advantages over optical disc and it's only real disadvantges (per unit media cost, replication lead time) have been reduced enough that coupled with the other logistical advantages it'd bring by having a unified media it's hard to see why Nintendo wouldn't do it.
I think people are really underselling those logistical advantages too. Having one physical format for all NX devices is huge in terms of production lines, shipping efficiencies, shelf space, licensing structure, promotion, etc. It reduces confusion, reduces risk, and really comes out as a net gain for publishers, retailers, consumers and Nintendo as well.
The strongest argument for putting a disc drive in the NX at this point is probably backwards compatibility, and that's something that bring a host of other costs along with it. I don't see it happening.
No that's sci-fi. He says the handheld should play all console games with better graphics.
you did it again?
Might have already been mentioned, but when the PR announcement was made for Tekken 7 coming to other consoles beyond PS4, it was announced for "home systems" and not specifically PS4/XB1 only.
I think most of us expected a NX version, given that the game runs on Unreal Engine 4, Bandai Namco's close relationship with Nintendo, and the fact that there's a fighting game fanbase on Nintendo's consoles already, but the ambiguity of the announcement is another point in a NX port's favor.
I think most of us expected a NX version, given that the game runs on Unreal Engine 4, Bandai Namco's close relationship with Nintendo, and the fact that there's a fighting game fanbase on Nintendo's consoles already, but the ambiguity of the announcement is another point in a NX port's favor.
True. Hope by "new gaming experience" they only refer to those rumors claiming of the way that home console and handheld are somehow "merged" together for a unified experience and not another freaking gimmick console. "Now you have to shake your head to make Mario jump with this new headband controller running at 720/30fps!!1"
We should see first the wording used with other recent PRs referred to brand new announcements for home consoles, though. If this is the first time Namco uses the "home systems" expression, that could be a small, very small but better-than-nothing-ish hint.
You'll get a donut screen and it'll be awesome.
Yup.
James Scott
Banned
With Nintendo's partnership with Namco, Tekken 7 makes sense though Tag team didn't do well. If they are going to make Smash 5, getting some experience with a NX port makes sense
As long as it's not something like that, it's fine
Wii U's "new experience" costs 100 to pack in.
As long as it's not something like that, it's fine
OrbitalBeard
Member
A fully shared OS and architecture between systems in the console world would be a new gaming experience. I'm not worried at all. Nintendo has had more far successes than failures.
The only thing I'm scared of is NoA's ability to screw it all up for NA consumers.
gamerMan
Member
I really hope we are getting more than a hardware upgrade. It might work or it might fail, but innovation is necessary for this industry to grow. Without it, we wouldn't have had the directional pad, shoulder buttons, side scrolling, touch screen gaming, 3d gaming, analog sticks, portable gaming, rumbling controllers, and wireless controllers.
You can't talk about Nintendo in isolation. For every failure Nintendo had, they have had a tremendous impact on pushing this industry forward with things we never even knew we wanted. It might have never been perfect but progress is better than perfection. With every system that has come out, I have never felt the impact of Nintendo releasing Super Mario 64.
James Scott
Banned
Nintendo should strongly consider NX for China. Not sure if popularity there would lead to piracy or any other issues, but the population there is insane. Being able to deliver the cheapest option (portable) there would be a big boost for them.
They could make up the costs by making the cases smaller, which would make them easier to ship while saving money on plastic... but it also decreases their visibility.
Biggest problem would be storage. A game like Zelda U or DQXI won't fit on 8GB carts (most likely)
Yeah, lowering the licensing costs is one way to make it attractive to 3rd parties. Though it would mean lower profits for Nintendo overall, even on their own software.
They could make up the costs by making the cases smaller, which would make them easier to ship while saving money on plastic... but it also decreases their visibility.
Biggest problem would be storage. A game like Zelda U or DQXI won't fit on 8GB carts (most likely)
OrbitalBeard
Member
If we're getting game cards for NX, they'll definitely be larger than 8 gigs. They'd have to be. Obviously smaller games would ship on a smaller card, memory-wise, but the option for large storage would have to be there.
I'm wondering how feasible a 32 gig card would be in 2016.
James Scott
Banned
That's a bit of a snag with using carts. The benefit of not needing a disc drive is great, but cartridge sized for HD games might not be up to snuff.
Nintendo could do it, 3D World is like 2GB and Smash 3DS not much bigger, but I'm not sure the Zelda team or 3rd parties could
I'd expect most games on 4-8GB cards initially, just as 3DS was mostly 512MB-2GB in 2011. This aligns pretty well with most 1st party Wii U game sizes actually. We'll see 16GB, 32GB and maybe even 64GB before the Gen 1 devices are retired though. We'll probably also see smaller capacities offered too, 3DS offers as small as 128MB to publishers.
I'm sort of wondering if we'll see any 8GB 3DS games yet? Maybe something big like Yokai Watch 3, Dragon Quest XI or MH Stories?
Chronos24
Member
If you look at the cost of 32GB SD cards today theyre quite low in price. Assuming Nintendo goes with a sort of Flash type of storage for video games then the size of the game, along with the rate at which data can be read from flash memory I think it's completely plausible that Nintendo could go with "Cartridges".
OrbitalBeard
Member
Personally, my expectations are pretty realistic. I'm going in for the Nintendo exclusives alone. Anything else (like Dragon Quest or Monster Hunter, both of which are likely to happen) will be a wonderful bonus.
Well, some of those were indeed underway but got canceled. Crysis 3 being a good example. Even formally announced stuff like Ghost Recon Online or Aliens Colonial Marines got canceled. And some other NDA'd titles ended up releasing (like COD) weren't confirmed until close to release.
There was a ton of speculation on what 3rd party games were Wii U bound and while much of it didn't pan out it wasn't totally unfounded either. By early 2013 plans changed considerably for 3rd parties.
OrbitalBeard
Member
haha lowered expectations
Nintendo NX = Nintendo Netflix Xperience. Can only stream the Super Mario Bros. movie.
EA was asked about NX support on their earnings conference call a couple days ago, based off the WSJ article.
http://wccftech.com/ea-evaluate-opportunities-nintendo-nx/
(original source that WCCFTECH.com got the transcript from)
Tremondous relationship? You haven't released a new game for the system since 2012 launch (Need for Speed was a port, and Fifa and Madden were based off the '12 versions not PS3 and 360's '13 versions).
They probably haven't even talked in three years.
I think we can realistically expect much of Nintendo's Japanese handheld support and western indie support to migrate to NX. It's not quite that dire.
James Scott
Banned
I'm not assuming much outside of games that the publishers themselves have said/teased and games that will likely not leave the Nintendo ecosystem unless the NX is a disaster (MH and Yokai Watch)
Expecting games on a Nintendo console might not be wise (madden, Bethesda games, etc) but at least Japan should very much be on board with the portable/shared library thing
It's weird, they've burned a lot of bridges with consumers and Nintendo alike. Unless the NX is a massive Wii-like success I think EA would be pretty hesitant . Even if they wanted to come back it'll be hard for them to do so. But missing out on Star Wars games would be bad for Nintendo. Just hope EA doesn't make poor launch titles for it like Wii U. Gives them an excuse to write it off without them trying
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
No, they are. And you're grossly underestimating how much carts would cost for today's games, as big as they are.
People are thinking of the type of carts SNES and MegaDrive/Genesis used when they say "carts", but are mistaking that something w/ an SD card built in offers the exact same functionality. It doesn't. The flash NAND on SD cards can only survive so many cycles, and is not permanent. The data on SNES and Genesis carts will never suddenly disappear, unless someone manually removed the ROMs from the carts. Because of that heightened retention capability, ROM chips cost more.
Let's take a look at one example. Atmel has an EPROM (granted, a cart game would be looking for ROM, not EPROM, but it's a decent substitute) that retains 512kB of data for $2. It takes 1000 kB to equal 1 megabyte, so that's roughly $4 per megabyte. If this were an N64 game, say SM64 (which was 8 megabytes), that'd be $32 for the cart. If it were a PS1 or Saturn game, let's say at 650 megabytes, that'd be $2,600 for the game. It's no wonder so many devs jumped ship that gen.
Nowadays you are talking about games with HD assets and can generally be up to tens of gigabytes in size, if not more. No one is going to spend up to $10,000 on a video game unless it's extremely collectible, and even the most pricey games out there on that front are nowhere near that price. Only vintage arcade machines come close. Carts, in the manner you and so many other people are speaking of them (basically like SNES, Genesis or N64 carts) are completely impractical from a costs POV, and other technology like SSD devices achieve about the same benefits in providing a speed boost at much more manageable costs.
And yes, they could just opt for cheaper ROM options, but there's a huge issue in doing that: cheaper ROM options is they have a shelf life; longer than SD cards yes but if having a shelf life on the data your memory can retain is essentially going to kill any collectible tendencies, why use carts at all? Why not just use SD cards and digital download platforms?
The best thing NX can do to satiate players who want little to no loading times in their games, while keeping prices manageable and not a deterrent to 3rd parties and consumers, is to develop optimization solutions for SSD that way people won't have an excuse to not install one or choose a slow platter HDD to install instead.
Pokemaniac
Member
Flash may not be quite as durable as durable as ROM memory, but reading it isn't going to wear it out. The thing that wears out Flash is program/erase cycles (i.e. modifying data). In a Flash based cartridge, you'd still only be writing the data once. The only part that runs a risk of wearing out is memory for save data.
A lower price isn't going to do much by itself in China. The biggest factors are going to be value and software that's well suited to Chinese audiences. Nintendo is currently unable to provide either of these in China, and that's why their performance there is extremely bad. It's a market they should definitely focus on, but it's not going to be easy.
As long as it can toast bread, I'm fine.
cartographer
Member
It can only toast mini-bread, not full-sized slices.
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