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[Orochinagis]

Eh, no, the new lara turned into "you have to protect her" from any danger than an actual character by herself.

Tomb raider reboot gave me the impression of babysitting me while babysitting Lara, making her a forgetable character in her own game.

 

[twobear]

Polygonal boobs Lara was less sexualized than current moaning Lara.

Original Lara is way more iconic, by the way.

i dunno, i'm kind of tempted to say that if you think current lara is more deliberately sexualised than a character who appeared in playboy 'shoots' then it probably says more about the fact that pushing sex appeal isn't necessarily sexy than it does about the intended level of sex appeal

 

[emrober5]

Ugh...again with the Tomb Raider and Uncharted nonsense.

But for real. this new Tomb Raider is the best. They took everything that worked in the first one and expanded on it, while giving Lara a stronger personality.

I am probably six or seven hours in, so maybe it just falls apart later in the game, but I am really enjoying it. Also, these are some great looking cutscenes.

 

[Arkos]

I thought I saved her

 

[Mr Moose]

wat

Yup. Polygon.

Opinion by Brianna Wu

Oh OK.

Gotta protect 'em all, Laramon.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

I like to think of Lara Croft as an Icon like James Bond is.

Tomb Raider Eras are like James Bond Eras:

Tomb Raider 1/2/3 - Sean Connery

Tomb Raider Last Revelation/Chronicles/Angel of Darkness - Roger Moore/Timothy Dalton

Tomb Raider Legend/Anniversary/Underworld- Pierce Brosnan

Some could say the Tomb Raider Reboot and Rise of the Tomb Raider of this gen are the Daniel Craig era of grittiness and bring divisiveness among fans.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

This is the currently most well known model of Lara Croft. While I think that the outfit is ridiculous, the colors make it more easily recognisable than the RoTR model.

How is that outfit ridiculous?

 

[Shaneus]

wat

polygon.com

.

 

[Mr Moose]

I like to think of Lara Croft as an Icon like James Bond is.

Tomb Raider Eras are like James Bond Eras:

Tomb Raider 1/2/3 - Sean Connery

Tomb Raider Last Revelation/Chronicles/Angel of Darkness - Roger Moore/Timothy Dalton

Tomb Raider Legend/Anniversary/Underworld- Pierce Brosnan

Some could say the Tomb Raider Reboot and Rise of the Tomb Raider of this gen are the Daniel Craig era of grittiness and bring divisiveness among fans.

The Bond-age theory could work, although not like that :O

The later games must be Timothy Dalton/Pierce Brosnan, we are not yet at the Daniel Craig games (which will be shit but full of action).

Spoiler

Timothy Dalton/Pierce Brosnan are the best Bonds!

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

we are not yet at the Daniel Craig games (which will be shit but full of action).

Spoiler

Timothy Dalton/Pierce Brosnan are the best Bonds!

This is exactly why you could think the reboot and sequel are Daniel Craig era. They contain loads more action than the previous games. Not to mention it is a very divisive opinion on both these new TRs and Daniel Craig's Bond movies.

The only problem is that Casino Royale was a great movie all around and some people weren't too fond of the TR Reboot.

 

[Lime]

It's pretty interesting that Square Enix / Crystal Dynamics still are doing Classic Lara with the Lara Croft series and the mobile Go game.

 

[kubricks]

Time were different so direct comparison is impossible, but then original Lara was always BOTH a sex symbol AND an icon, so in that sense I don't know what the fuck Polygon is on about.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Get back to me when she's rocking thru level design like this again. Until then, no saving has occured.

Wait, there is the mobile game, sorta.

 

[Ahasverus]

I would say this article was ridiculous but I'm in FUCKING LOVE with ROTTR

 

[Deleted member 80556]

This is exactly why you could think the reboot and sequel are Daniel Craig era. They contain loads more action than the previous games. Not to mention it is a very divisive opinion on both these new TRs and Daniel Craig's Bond movies.

The only problem is that Casino Royale was a great movie all around and some people weren't too fond of the TR Reboot.

Surprisingly, there are people who don't like Casino Royale. I was surprised to find that out as well haha.

 

[Innolis]

How is that outfit ridiculous?

I second this!

 

[UrbanRats]

It's pretty interesting that Square Enix / Crystal Dynamics still are doing Classic Lara with the Lara Croft series and the mobile Go game.

Probably trying to please everybody.
Not ideal, but i won't complain, since those games still reach closer to my idea of TR than the mainline ones.

 

[GorillaJu]

I feel like Lara, when she was a sex symbol, was more of an icon than she is now. At this point she's basically an amoeba that changes completely from game to game and doesn't have any real presence. And her current face and body are sexier than she's ever been.

 

[chaobreaker]

Someone brought up the dual pistols but I doubt Crystal Dynamics will ever re-introduce them to reboot Lara. Guns akimbo is not a very well-grounded form of combat and won't fit with the gritty realism of the new TR games.

 

[BuggyMike]

Legend trilogy still the best Lara by far. RIP badass Lara.

Just like the original design was sexed up to match the gaming audience, the new design of weak crying constantly vulnerable Lara was too. It's the new hot trend of male power fantasies in gaming to be the strong man leading the vulnerable female through danger like in Bioshock Infinite or The Last of Us. Crystal Dynamics just chased that trend except put the player not in the role of Lara, but in an outside entity that leads her by the hand and would 'want to protect her'. It's still gross just in a different way.

Okay seriously can any man here respond and tell me if they actually have this? Because I have no idea what on earth people are talking about when they say this. I have absolutely no interest in playing female characters for this reason. Litterally I have seriously never felt like I was having some power fantasy fulfilled by playing as a female character. Im simply playing as a character and hoping this character will be fun to play as. Ive never had this and neither has any of my male piers/friends etc. When me and male friends are relating and conversing and connecting about what we love in games with that have female main characters like you suggest here this has never even been in the vicinity of the conversation. It just sounds so foreign to me. Does any guy here ever feel like they are fulfiling some kind of fantasy when playing a female protagonist? Im honestly curious if anyone ever feels this way because I've never ever experienced this or feel like I or any of my male friends can relate to it.

 

[not psycho]

Classic Lara Croft is infinitely more of an icon. The games were huge, she had movies made about her, the design is still used in some current games. She was like Indiana Jones + Batman. Fabulously wealthy and doing what she wanted.

As for the sex symbol stuff, improved graphics will generally make a character more overtly "sexy":

Now, we all know they would have made Lara sexier back then if they could have. But the fact is, the blocky graphics allowed the character to shine without being forced merely into sex symbol status. She became an icon largely for the quality and innovation of the character and the games. The really annoying sex symbol stuff (which admittedly was part of the iconic status) was outside the game.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Okay seriously can any man here respond and tell me if they actually have this? Because I have no idea what on earth people are talking about when they say this.

If the mere act of playing as a female character can now be construed as "male power fantasy" then I think the term has finally jumped the shark.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

How is that outfit ridiculous?

It's too 90's

 

[SaucyJack]

The Bond-age theory could work, although not like that :O

The later games must be Timothy Dalton/Pierce Brosnan, we are not yet at the Daniel Craig games (which will be shit but full of action).

Spoiler

Timothy Dalton/Pierce Brosnan are the best Bonds!

That is so wrong.

Sean Connery is the prefect Bond. The films may be a bit dated now (first was 50 years ago) but doesn't detract from the fact that he nailed the role.

Underrated Bonds are Lazenby and Dalton, both did a good job, neither was popular. Most overrated Bond is Brosnan, no grit to him and the films went from bad to complete trash during his time in role.

Craig is a decent Bond, probably closer to Connery than anyone else. Moore played it too much for laughs, some great films in his time though.

Connery - daylight - Craig - Moore - Dalton - Brosnan - Lazenby

 

[Hedge]

If the mere act of playing as a female character can now be construed as "male power fantasy" then I think the term has finally jumped the shark.

Yeah, I think the term is misused here.
Besides I have never heard anyone ever making a claim (before now) that having a playable female that is weaker than other characters is a "male power fantasy".
Honestly, I take offence because female protags is still on the rise, and developers are trying different approaches. If you don't have a strong female lead who is all about confidence and sensible clothing, then it's a male power fantasy?

 

[Auto-Reply]

Probably trying to please everybody.
Not ideal, but i won't complain, since those games still reach closer to my idea of TR than the mainline ones.

I'm sol tho as I don't play mobile games and not getting any more classic Tomb Raider gameplay on stationary systems.

Edit: Arent the go games top down isometric style twin stick shooter with small lever-mechanics/puzzles?

 

[zsynqx]

Surprisingly, there are people who don't like Casino Royale. I was surprised to find that out as well haha.

Sigh, because of this thread I now have to re-watch Casino Royale. Such a good film.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Edit: Arent the go games top down isometric style twin stick shooter with small lever-mechanics/puzzles?

No, you're thinking about the "Lara Croft and the ..." games. The GO game is a top down isometric turn based puzzle focused mobile game.

 

[Lime]

Okay seriously can any man here respond and tell me if they actually have this? Because I have no idea what on earth people are talking about when they say this. I have absolutely no interest in playing female characters for this reason. Litterally I have seriously never felt like I was having some power fantasy fulfilled by playing as a female character. Im simply playing as a character and hoping this character will be fun to play as. Ive never had this and neither has any of my male piers/friends etc. When me and male friends are relating and conversing and connecting about what we love in games with that have female main characters like you suggest here this has never even been in the vicinity of the conversation. It just sounds so foreign to me. Does any guy here ever feel like they are fulfiling some kind of fantasy when playing a female protagonist? Im honestly curious if anyone ever feels this way because I've never ever experienced this or feel like I or any of my male friends can relate to it.

If the mere act of playing as a female character can now be construed as "male power fantasy" then I think the term has finally jumped the shark.

Yeah, I think the term is misused here.
Besides I have never heard anyone ever making a claim (before now) that having a playable female that is weaker than other characters is a "male power fantasy".
Honestly, I take offence because female protags is still on the rise, and developers are trying different approaches. If you don't have a strong female lead who is all about confidence and sensible clothing, then it's a male power fantasy?

Structural sexism can happen in many ways. It's not simply about having a female character that is made to one-dimensionally titillate the presumed male consumer. Sexist treatments of fictional characters can be so many things.

In this particular case, Lara Croft is depicted as vulnerable, hurt, exhausted, and fragile. This is seen in the way she is characterized, how the developers chose to frame her and present her, and what personality traits they wanted to emphasize. Lara's characterization is sexist in that it's yet another harmful trope that conforms to the male power fantasy of protecting and possibly possessing the female character. The male player doesn't play as Lara, but protects her because she is depicted so vulnerable and fragile that she requires the male protection.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/13/tomb-raider-lara-croft-rape-attempt

His statements take some unpacking, and for fans of the Tomb Raider series they're not encouraging. As a player, I don't remember having many problems projecting myself as Lara – and I don't particularly want an avatar in a game that needs protecting. Players aren't expected to want to protect Nathan Drake in Uncharted, or John Marston in Red Dead Redemption, or Max Payne – so why Lara? Rosenberg seems to suggest it's because she's female – and it's hard to see that as anything other than a sexist approach, an assumption that men can't lose themselves in stories with female protagonists and/or that female gamers simply don't exist.

He also says she's forced to suffer such horrors that she "literally turns into a cornered animal". I hope it turns out that Lara's been a werewolf all this time – but I suspect he means that her character and spirit come under such attack that she's reduced to fight-or-flight responses. The Lara Croft of previous games has generally been intelligent, witty, resourceful and ingenious, as well as athletic, strong and skilful. Lara has always been a pragmatic survivalist with a keen sense of adventure; to decide that she needs to be tortured in order to be able to kill goes against what we know of her history and personality so far.

The idea that Lara – like Samus from Metroid – should have an origin story in which she is weak in order to explain her strength is difficult to swallow. Male characters are generally permitted to be strong without needing a back story in which they are broken – why should female characters be different? Why do we need to protect Lara through an awful ordeal for her strength to make sense? Judging by the comments on Kotaku and elsewhere, I'm not the only one who shares these concerns.

Samantha “Kitten” McComb wrote on how Tomb Raider 2013 also conforms to the whole "woman has to go through torture to develop" principle:

Why do people consider this Lara to be “human?” Is it because she earns men’s trust? Is it because she is beaten and nearly killed over and over again by men? She’s captured at four separate points in the game without the player having any ability to prevent this and often ridiculed by the enemies during combat dialogue. Each time you’re captured, it is in a situation where should have had control of Lara, you could have nearly effortlessly fought your way out via the game’s mechanics. Is this a “gamer’s” idea of a good woman character?

The old Lara Croft was a horribly shit role model that barely resembled an actual woman. Fortunately, most people were able to so much as look at her and realize she was just a product made by and for men. The new Lara Croft is considerably more insidious because she is not recognized as such. She is a product of patriarchal thought and writing (surprisingly by a woman, no less) and a creation of the male gaze, but she is somehow being touted as an impressive character and even a role model for girls in gaming.

What message do we send to people when we say that this new Lara is “very human?” Do we even contemplate the implications that would send… to suggest that a “real” woman is only a qualified heroine once she has been abused in the most horrible of ways? There is a dialogue throughout gaming that suggests men “fight” and women “survive.” Tomb Raider empowers that dialogue, and it is disgusting that it is allowed to do so while praised at large..

 

[revolverjgw]

I liked Tomb Raider 2013 a lot but the character had nothing to do with it, and actually probably hurt the experience. Her arc is ridiculous.

 

[Coll1der]

This is the currently most well known model of Lara Croft. While I think that the outfit is ridiculous, the colors make it more easily recognisable than the RoTR model.

My wife actually dresses like that for summer holiday trips. What's wrong with that? Is she a bad woman because of that?

 

[Lime]

My wife actually dresses like that for summer holiday trips. What's wrong with that? Is she a bad woman because of that?

Your wife is a human being, Lara Croft is a fictional character developed by other people and ultimately Eidos (new)/Square Enix (now). Your wife decides for herself and has agency, Lara Croft does not.

 

[Mithos]

My wife actually dresses like that for summer holiday trips. What's wrong with that? Is she a bad woman because of that?

Non at all, those who claims it, is just going Blah-Blah-Woof-Woof for the sake of it.

 

[Falk]

The Lara redesign was amazing...... the game itself though was a really bad Tomb Raider

Someone mentioned a few months back that the games bearing the name "Tomb Raider" are more about Lara Croft, and the games bearing the name "Lara Croft" (e.g. GO on mobile) are more about tomb raiding.

 

[archangelmorph]

This article is ridiculous...

Confident, wealthy, independent, adventure-hungry Lara of the 90s shits all over their crappy new "little girl trembling, nervous, unsure-of-herself, constantly-screaming-in-pain-as-she's-abused-by-her-environment" Lara 1000x over...

Classic Lara was so iconic that even her impersonation by a nobody actress at the time, had their own career skyrocketed just by playing her (Angelina Jolie)...

Also what's with new Lara's stupid incessant penchant for murdering people? That's nowhere near what classic tomb raider was about and whilst Classic tomb raider had the odd Lara vs soldier baddies gunfight, new "scared, nervous, so-called-unsure-of-herself" Lara is fucking gutting them, tearing out their throats with a pick axe, impaling them with a bow and in the latest game, horrifically immolating men alive with molotov cocktails...

Fucking molotov cocktails?!?!

The cognitive dissonance on display here is so far over what I can cope with, and people genuinely thought Nathan Drake was bad; new Lara is a fucking psychopath...

They've literally turned the female equivalent of an adventure game version of DMC's Dante, into a cross between princess peach and Sarah Carter from The Descent

 

[Coll1der]

Your wife is a human being, Lara Croft is a fictional character developed by other people and ultimately Eidos (new)/Square Enix (now). Your wife decides for herself and has agency, Lara Croft does not.

So why dressing a fictional character into something that a normal woman can wear on her own volition is bad?

 

[plasmawave]

So why dressing a fictional character into something that a normal woman can wear on her own volition is bad?

Yo she's wearing shorts. SHORTS.

 

[Hedge]

Structural sexism can happen in many ways. It's not simply about having a female character that is made to one-dimensionally titillate the presumed male consumer. Sexist treatments of fictional characters can be so many things.

In this particular case, Lara Croft is depicted as vulnerable, hurt, exhausted, and fragile. This is seen in the way she is characterized, how the developers chose to frame her and present her, and what personality traits they wanted to emphasize. Lara's characterization is sexist in that it's yet another harmful trope that conforms to the male power fantasy of protecting and possibly possessing the female character. The male player doesn't play as Lara, but protects her because she is depicted so vulnerable and fragile that she requires the male protection.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/13/tomb-raider-lara-croft-rape-attempt



Samantha “Kitten” McComb wrote on how Tomb Raider 2013 also conforms to the whole "woman has to go through torture to develop" principle:

Is there such a trope for women? Go through torture at the hands of men to develop?

I agree that the portrayal of her is not without problems, and there are many ways that undermine the entire point of her "survivor" persona.
But there is a big difference between problematic portrayal and "male power fantasy".
A fictional character can never have agency, so by definition we will always have to "take possession" of a character. In this instance it is a woman. They want her to feel human, that is to feel remorse and disgust at her own actions that the situation requires from her. I think that is very sympathetic and powerful, to overcome your own nature to save someone.
The author above argues that the "human" aspect of her is only brought out because she is brutalized at the hands of men.

Again, I agree that there are problems in the portrayal of her survivor transformation (why so many men have to sacrifice themselves for her?), but above author had a problem with her not being badass and a killer from the start.
I think this portrayal is more genuine, because it at least tries to give a person some form of conscience.. even if they struggle. Your argument sounds like this should never be done with a woman, because it is a male power fantasy. That is what I don't agree with.
The portrayal isn't of a power-house like old Lara because she was intended to be more human, i.e. have more natural responses to trauma.

And no, not more human, as your author suggests, in way of earning the trust of men.

 

[Lime]

So why dressing a fictional character into something that a normal woman can wear on her own volition is bad?

Context. There's been writen plenty of stuff on why the visual presentation and contextualization of old Lara can be read as sexist, such as this article by Kennedy

Of course, we are here only talking about how Lara as an icon has been encoded by its producers (sexualized, tittilate, etc.) and not how players and consumers decode, negotiate and appropriate the character to their own likings. That's how you get articles like the Kennedy one or the MacCallum-Stewart I posted earlier.

 

[grandwizard]

Structural sexism can happen in many ways. It's not simply about having a female character that is made to one-dimensionally titillate the presumed male consumer. Sexist treatments of fictional characters can be so many things.

In this particular case, Lara Croft is depicted as vulnerable, hurt, exhausted, and fragile. This is seen in the way she is characterized, how the developers chose to frame her and present her, and what personality traits they wanted to emphasize. Lara's characterization is sexist in that it's yet another harmful trope that conforms to the male power fantasy of protecting and possibly possessing the female character. The male player doesn't play as Lara, but protects her because she is depicted so vulnerable and fragile that she requires the male protection.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/13/tomb-raider-lara-croft-rape-attempt



Samantha “Kitten” McComb wrote on how Tomb Raider 2013 also conforms to the whole "woman has to go through torture to develop" principle:

Yeah, this. Guys, go back and read the PR that Crystal Dynamics was doing for the reboot and new Lara in the lead up to the release. The quotes about wanting to protect her and the player feeling like a guiding hand for Lara is what I'm referring to. In old TR, the player was put in the shoes of Lara, just like any other franchise with a hero character that is supremely badass. Now, under the guise of making a better character, they created a character that is constantly making pain moaning sounds and repeatedly brutalized while you as the player are meant to be more of an observer and caretaker. At the end of the day you still control both characters directly, but just the way they talked about how they designed the character and situations makes it obvious that their intent was far different from the norm, and we can read into that as to why they wanted to differ and why Lara in particular needed or didn't need it.

The trend I'm referring to is just another type of power fantasy that I think reflects an aging gaming population of older males that now might have their own children and families instead of teenagers and early 20s players who just want to fuck shit up. Instead of being the young hot shot that saves the world and gets the princess, you are the gruff older man who is more worldly and leads a younger and more innocent and fragile female side character through dangerous environments. In Tomb Raider's case the requirements of the license mean they couldn't really do that, you have to be playing Lara, and that could have led to this new paradigm shift of 'lets not have the player feel like they ARE Lara anymore, but make the player feel like a guiding hand for this poor girl who needs help'.

The stuff they said about Lara while making this game was pretty gross imo. Being held up as a new standard of writing is ridiculous when you look at what they did to her character and the side characters of TR2013 being so full of stereotypes.

 

[Lime]

Is there such a trope for women? Go through torture at the hands of men to develop?

I agree that the portrayal of her is not without problems, and there are many ways that undermine the entire point of her "survivor" persona.
But there is a big difference between problematic portrayal and "male power fantasy".
A fictional character can never have agency, so by definition we will always have to "take possession" of a character. In this instance it is a woman. They want her to feel human, that is to feel remorse and disgust at her own actions that the situation requires from her. I think that is very sympathetic and powerful, to overcome your own nature to save someone.
The author above argues that the "human" aspect of her is only brought out because she is brutalized at the hands of men.

Again, I agree that there are problems in the portrayal of her survivor transformation (why so many men have to sacrifice themselves for her?), but above author had a problem with her not being badass and a killer from the start.
I think this portrayal is more genuine, because it at least tries to give a person some form of conscience.. even if they struggle. Your argument sounds like this should never be done with a woman, because it is a male power fantasy. That is what I don't agree with.
The portrayal isn't of a power-house like old Lara because she was intended to be more human, i.e. have more natural responses to trauma.

And no, not more human, as your author suggests, in way of earning the trust of men.

By male power fantasy, people are referring to the whole "protecting female characters as the power fantasy." Women need the guy's help and that is what is considered the fantasy of guys according to some game developers.

The second point is that you have to ask yourself while playing the Tomb Raider reboots - how would this appear if it was Nathan Drake or Indiana Jones or Leon Kennedy or whoever is the typical male adventurer dude, who is moaning, breaking down, screaming, and crying in these same situations? How would this appear to you? This is a very simple basic method akin to Hawkeye in pointing out how male action heroes get treated in entertainment versus how female heroes get treated.

 

[OléGunner]

No Polygon.

Lara was way more iconic in her old games, Yeah she was a sex symbol but still iconic in her own right.

All CD have largely done to Lara is make her have smaller tits and the personality of a wet fart.
Doesn't help the TR 2013 was basically a "protect her" simulator.

Another poster mentioned that Chloe from Uncharted is way more Lara Croft than the current design and I'm inclined to agree with.

She's hot, a bad ass and has tons of personality without the trappings of protecting her from the scary bad men

 

[Lime]

Yeah, this. Guys, go back and read the PR that Crystal Dynamics was doing for the reboot and new Lara in the lead up to the release. The quotes about wanting to protect her and the player feeling like a guiding hand for Lara is what I'm referring to. In old TR, the player was put in the shoes of Lara, just like any other franchise with a hero character that is supremely badass. Now, under the guise of making a better character, they created a character that is constantly making pain moaning sounds and repeatedly brutalized while you as the player are meant to be more of an observer and caretaker. At the end of the day you still control both characters directly, but just the way they talked about how they designed the character and situations makes it obvious that their intent was far different from the norm, and we can read into that as to why they wanted to differ and why Lara in particular needed or didn't need it.

The trend I'm referring to is just another type of power fantasy that I think reflects an aging gaming population of older males that now might have their own children and families instead of teenagers and early 20s players who just want to fuck shit up. Instead of being the young hot shot that saves the world and gets the princess, you are the gruff older man who is more worldly and leads a younger and more innocent and fragile female side character through dangerous environments. In Tomb Raider's case the requirements of the license mean they couldn't really do that, you have to be playing Lara, and that could have led to this new paradigm shift of 'lets not have the player feel like they ARE Lara anymore, but make the player feel like a guiding hand for this poor girl who needs help'.

The stuff they said about Lara while making this game was pretty gross imo. Being held up as a new standard of writing is ridiculous when you look at what they did to her character and the side characters of TR2013 being so full of stereotypes.

Yeah, exactly, another good post grandwizard that I totally agree with. It's kind of hilarious to watch these games suddenly do the whole "Old father figure protects vulnerable daughter-type" being repeated again and again these days:

• Last of Us with Joel and Ellie
• Witcher 3 with Geralt and Ciri
• Bioshock 3 with Booker dude and Elizabeth
• Walking Dead 1 with Lee and Clementine

Apparently all the male game developers in charge are growing up and getting families. :lol

 

[Hedge]

By male power fantasy, people are referring to the whole "protecting female characters as the power fantasy." Women need the guy's help and that is what is considered the fantasy of guys according to some game developers.

The second point is that you have to ask yourself while playing the Tomb Raider reboots - how would this appear if it was Nathan Drake or Indiana Jones or Leon Kennedy or whoever is the typical male adventurer dude, who is moaning, breaking down, screaming, and crying in these same situations? How would this appear to you? This is a very simple basic method akin to Hawkeye in pointing out how male action heroes get treated in entertainment versus how female heroes get treated.

If Drake acted by way of Lara, he would be a human undergoing stress (and apparently forgetting sometimes). That is my point. I don't see the new Tomb Raider as comparable to Uncharted, because Drake is stylized where Lara was meant to be an actual person.
Drake and old Lara would be more comparable.
And I would love to play a game where they'd put a haughty Drake character into actual stressful situations to see his responses. A human man for once, instead of these can-everything unrealistic portrayals.

As for protecting the woman.. I know of the interview you're referring to. Terrible and shameful, really.
But I am just trying to say, that it wasn't what I felt when I played it. It didn't feel as if I the player had to protect Lara, despite what the devs said and maybe that's why I have difficulty seeing it as a power fantasy.

 

[baudelinog]

Lara love.

 

[OléGunner]

Yeah, exactly, another good post grandwizard that I totally agree with. It's kind of hilarious to watch these games suddenly do the whole "Old father figure protects vulnerable daughter-type" being repeated again and again these days:

• Last of Us with Joel and Ellie
• Witcher 3 with Geralt and Ciri
• Bioshock 3 with Booker dude and Elizabeth
• Walking Dead 1 with Lee and Clementine

Apparently all the male game developers in charge are growing up and getting families. :lol

Developers getting older and having families is likely a reason that we see these kind of relationship-centric games coming out now. No doubt having kids as a dev would lean you towards exploring these themes.

Though I must say the way TLoU and TWD S1 handled it was very elegant and impactful.

Can't comment on Witcher 3 as I haven't played it and I thought Bioshock Infinte was an all round mediocre game, including the Elizabeth Booker dynamic.

 

[Hedge]

Developers getting older and having families is likely a reason that we see these kind of relationship-centric games coming out now. No doubt having kids as a dev would lean you towards exploring these themes.

Though I must say the way TLoU and TWD S1 handled it was very elegant and impactful.

I agree. The themes are at least somewhat new and interesting, instead of all the copy-paste stories out there.
I thought The Last of Us was a good portrayal with a lot of depth.

 

[Lime]

If Drake acted by way of Lara, he would be a human undergoing stress (and apparently forgetting sometimes). That is my point. I don't see the new Tomb Raider as comparable to Uncharted, because Drake is stylized where Lara was meant to be an actual person.
Drake and old Lara would be more comparable.
And I would love to play a game where they'd put a haughty Drake character into actual stressful situations to see his responses. A human man for once, instead of these can-everything unrealistic portrayals.

As for protecting the woman.. I know of the interview you're referring to. Terrible and shameful, really.
But I am just trying to say, that it wasn't what I felt when I played it. It didn't feel as if I the player had to protect Lara, despite what the devs said and maybe that's why I have difficulty seeing it as a power fantasy.

And it's really good that you didn't feel that when you played it - I kinda envy you :lol. But I felt the whole exhaustion and crying and moaning were grating to me personally, especially with Luddington's vulnerable voice that sounds like it's about to crack every second if she steps on a branch or a twig. It was even worse considering that I never see male action heroes be exposed to the same type of characterization compared to the fact that "old" Lara Croft used to be a no-nonsense kind of action hero with good voice acting instead of

Developers getting older and having families is likely a reason that we see these kind of relationship-centric games coming out now. No doubt having kids as a dev would lean you towards exploring these themes.

Though I must say the way TLoU and TWD S1 handled it was very elegant and impactful.

Can't comment on Witcher 3 as I haven't played it and I thought Bioshock Infinte was an all round mediocre game, including the Elizabeth Booker dynamic.

Yeah I agree that TWD and TLOU did a pretty admirable job in their writing and presentation. It's just a fascinating trend to watch in higher profile games is what I'm saying.

 

[Cyborg]

Lara became one of the best-written, emotionally relatable women in gaming history.

WoW.....

 

[Coll1der]

Context.

In your context everything is sexist unless it 100 percent follows your rationale.