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Gotham S2 |OT| Dawn of Altruism - Mondays 8/7c

P

Poodlestrike

Banned
ChosenPredator said:
never seen this show yet but is it going to end (hypothetical season final) with bruce finally becoming batman but never being able to see him in the suit, I imagine its going to be a shot of gordon gazing at batman ...over the shoulder shot lol
Click to expand...

Uh... maybe? I dunno.

Could be it ends with Bruce getting gunned down and Gordon putting on the suit. Who knows? They're definitely not following canon here :p
 
A

Alandrus Sun

Banned
Oddduck said:
My main point is I didn't see anything in Jessica Jones that felt significantly better than Gotham S2 or even S1 for that matter. I liked Jessica Jones a lot, but I didn't say "wow, this is so much better than what's currently airing on network television".

I guess I'm tired of the hypocrisy from comic book fans (and TV critics) when it comes to Gotham.

One of the criticisms of Gotham S1 was: "It doesn't know what it wants to be."

- Does it want to be a crime noir detective show?
- Does it want to be a comic book show?
- Does it want to be a campy mob story?
- Does the tone want to be serious or campy? Or a mix of both?
- "I don't care for Barbara's lesbian angle with Rene Montoya!"
- "I'm tired of Gordon checking up on lil Bruce every episode, after his parents were killed."
- When Barbara makes dumb, selfish, or irresponsible decisions? "Such bad writing!"

But the same criticisms could be applied to Jessica Jones.

- Does it want to be a crime noir detective show?
- Does it want to be a superhero show?
- Does the tone want to be serious or campy? Or a mix of both? (the tone is all over the place -- especially in the later episodes)
- "I don't care for Jeri Hargrove's lesbian angle with Wendy!"
- "I'm tired of Jessica checking up on Hope every episode,
after her parents were killed."
- When Jessica makes dumb, selfish, or irresponsible decisions: "She's relatable!" "I can relate to her!"
(To catch Kilgrave, she tried to lock herself in a maximum facility prison and take blame for murders. She also fucked Luke Cage multiple times even though she murdered his wife.)
Click to expand...

Oh, I am by no means holding Gotham S1 (or S2 for that matter) to any gold standard but to me personally their was always something in Gotham (and most shows like it for that matter) that kept me coming back despite the super cheesiness, sub-par acting, or aimlessness at times with the plot. However, despite JJ looking and I guess sounding less cheesy it didn't have a single element that I enjoyed. I just couldn't find anything about the show that kept me interested which is why I find it to be a worse show.
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Alandrus Sun said:
Oh, I am by no means holding Gotham S1 (or S2 for that matter) to any gold standard but to me personally their was always something in Gotham (and most shows like it for that matter) that kept me coming back despite the super cheesiness, sub-par acting, or aimlessness at times with the plot. However, despite JJ looking and I guess sounding less cheesy it didn't have a single element that I enjoyed. I just couldn't find anything about the show that kept me interested which is why I find it to be a worse show.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, none of the comic book shows on television, except for maybe The Walking Dead, would be considered "prestige dramas" in the same category as "The Knick" or "Fargo" or "Breaking Bad".


This is just my personal opinion, and people are free to strongly disagree with it, but here is how I would personally rank the shows.


A-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
The Flash <--- Greg Berlanti's best DC comics show, in my opinion.
Daredevil
The Walking Dead
Gotham <-- It's the ballsiest, gutsiest, most divisive comic book show on television. It's the only comic book show that takes big risks with the source material. A strong cast of actors + the writing keeps getting better + strong art direction and high production values.

B-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Jessica Jones
Agent Carter
Agents of Shield
iZombie


C-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Arrow <-- The most overrated comic book show on television. Low budget production values + CW drama for tween girls.
Supergirl <-- I don't dislike this show, but the best thing about it is Melissa Benoist. Needs a bigger budget for special effects, needs better fight choreography.
Constantine <-- the best thing about the show was the actor playing John Constantine. The rest of the show was mediocrity.

Again, this is all my personal opinion, and people are free to disagree.
 
M

Magwik

Banned
Oddduck said:
In my opinion, none of the comic book shows on television, except for maybe The Walking Dead, would be considered "prestige dramas" in the same category as "The Knick" or "Fargo" or "Breaking Bad".


This is just my personal opinion, and people are free to strongly disagree with it, but here is how I would personally rank the shows.


A-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
The Flash
Daredevil <--- Greg Berlanti's best DC comics show, in my opinion.
The Walking Dead
Gotham <-- It's the balliest, gutsiest, most divisive comic book show on television. It's the only comic book show that takes big risks with the source material. A strong cast of actors + the writing keeps getting better + strong art direction and high production values.

B-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Jessica Jones
Agent Carter
Agents of Shield
iZombie


C-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Arrow <-- The most overrated comic book show on television. Low budget production values + CW drama for tween girls.
Supergirl <-- I don't dislike this show, but the best thing about it is Melissa Benoist.
Constantine

Again, this is all my personal opinion, and people are free to disagree.
Click to expand...
What has you putting Constantine so low?
 
O

Oddduck

Member
StaticJam said:
What has you putting Constantine so low?
Click to expand...

I felt that the best thing about Constantine was the actor playing John Constantine.

I didn't care for most of the supporting characters or most of the stories.

I would still like to see John Constantine/Matt Ryan continue to appear in more DC shows though. Like how he appeared in Arrow earlier this year.
 
A

Alandrus Sun

Banned
Oddduck said:
In my opinion, none of the comic book shows on television, except for maybe The Walking Dead, would be considered "prestige dramas" in the same category as "The Knick" or "Fargo" or "Breaking Bad".


This is just my personal opinion, and people are free to strongly disagree with it, but here is how I would personally rank the shows.


A-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
The Flash <--- Greg Berlanti's best DC comics show, in my opinion.
Daredevil
The Walking Dead
Gotham <-- It's the balliest, gutsiest, most divisive comic book show on television. It's the only comic book show that takes big risks with the source material. A strong cast of actors + the writing keeps getting better + strong art direction and high production values.

B-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Jessica Jones
Agent Carter
Agents of Shield
iZombie


C-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Arrow <-- The most overrated comic book show on television. Low budget production values + CW drama for tween girls.
Supergirl <-- I don't dislike this show, but the best thing about it is Melissa Benoist. Needs a bigger budget for special effects, needs better fight choreography.
Constantine <-- the best thing about the show was the actor playing John Constantine. The rest of the show was mediocrity.

Again, this is all my personal opinion, and people are free to disagree.
Click to expand...

Swap "The Walking Dead" with Arrow and preface Arrow with S1 or S2 and I would agree with everything you said. I think TWD is trash that tries to pretend it is "prestige" by having a lot of slow scenes where characters look serious and talk a bunch but is honestly a poorly written show. Arrow used to be an A-tier comic book show to me but S3 killed that.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oddduck said:
In my opinion, none of the comic book shows on television, except for maybe The Walking Dead, would be considered "prestige dramas" in the same category as "The Knick" or "Fargo" or "Breaking Bad".


This is just my personal opinion, and people are free to strongly disagree with it, but here is how I would personally rank the shows.


A-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
The Flash <--- Greg Berlanti's best DC comics show, in my opinion.
Daredevil
The Walking Dead
Gotham <-- It's the ballsiest, gutsiest, most divisive comic book show on television. It's the only comic book show that takes big risks with the source material. A strong cast of actors + the writing keeps getting better + strong art direction and high production values.

B-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Jessica Jones
Agent Carter
Agents of Shield
iZombie


C-Tier Comic Book Shows
----------------------
Arrow <-- The most overrated comic book show on television. Low budget production values + CW drama for tween girls.
Supergirl <-- I don't dislike this show, but the best thing about it is Melissa Benoist. Needs a bigger budget for special effects, needs better fight choreography.
Constantine <-- the best thing about the show was the actor playing John Constantine. The rest of the show was mediocrity.

Again, this is all my personal opinion, and people are free to disagree.
Click to expand...
Knock AoS to C bump Arrow to B(unless this season goes to S3 levels.)
And im with you.
 
D

Dynasty

Member
A Tier Comic Book Shows
Gotham. Season 1 was mediocre, the only reason I watched it was because it was Batman. Good thing I stayed with it because season 2 has been amazing.
iZombie. Loved it since the beginning, what makes the show really good is the characters. I also like the balance between humour and seriousness.
Daredevil. Has some amazing action scenes, liked the more serious nature of the show compared to Marvel movies. It has the second best Marvel villain Willson Fisk(Loki is first)

B Tier
Flash. I like the show but I never seem to reach that point where I can't wait for the next episode/season.
Constantine. Best thing about the show is Matt Ryan's portrayal of Constatine. The show started of slow for me but by appproximately the 4th episode the show started to pick up and I enjoyed it. Shame it got cancelled because I do think it could have got better like Gotham during the second season.
Walking Dead. Started off amazing but season 2-3 Really killed my love for the show by it does seem to be picking up again.

C Tier
Arrow. I loved season 1 and 2 of the show but it has been going downhill from their. Season 3 was stupid, 4 seems to be better but no ok the level of 1 or 2. The show has a lot of problems, the island flashbacks are boring now, too many people know his identity, he has too many people on his team. I liked the show when he wasn't really a hero and wasn't afraid to cross the line, it was about his crusade.
 
H

Hex

Banned
A Tier:

Daredevil
Gotham
I Zombie
Agent Carter
Jessica Jones

B Tier

Flash
Constantine
Agents of Shield (Did a great job of raising itself up)


C Tier

Arrow (Some eps are great, others are just ok...keeps it from being better)
Walking Dead (Just tediously same after the same after the same)

D Tier

Super Girl
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Penguin said:
I expanded on one of my posts from the BvS thread as to what I think Gotham has changed for the better.

Because sometimes just telling people something has gotten better doesn't explain why or how it's diff

http://nerdsontherocks.com/changing-face-gotham/
Click to expand...

If they ever bring back some of the mob stuff, they could do a fued between Rupert Thorne and Arnold Stromwell, just like Batman the Animated series.

And Falcone and Maroni had kids and families in the comics, so they could probably do something with that.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Madridista said:
I loved the whole mob plot of Season 1.
Click to expand...

See, I'm of the exact opposite opinion. I felt like they were spinning their wheels with the double and triple and quadruple crosses in the mob storyline.
 
V

Vico

Member
Just caught up on the last two episodes. Holy Shit.
That season is so crazy. Gave me a huge grin on my face more than once.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
See, I'm of the exact opposite opinion. I felt like they were spinning their wheels with the double and triple and quadruple crosses in the mob storyline.
Click to expand...

Well that was mostly Penguin

The whole Falcone/Maroni beef was solid though. Sort of a hostile mutual truce that was ever so delicate and how they would work out compromises.

And how it kind of seeped into Gotham's pours
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
Yo I been catching up after dropping this show in the first season on Everyone's Got a Cobblepot.

I kept hearing what a turnaround S2 was so I was like "Fuck it, might as well," and got back into it. I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked the last 4 or so episodes of season 1, but now I've just seen the first two of S2 and my perception has changed dramatically.

Holy shit does this show not hold back anymore. That precinct massacre was like straight ripped from the comics. Crazy stuff. Need more.
 
F

Flash

Member
Frog-fu said:
Yo I been catching up after dropping this show in the first season on Everyone's Got a Cobblepot.

I kept hearing what a turnaround S2 was so I was like "Fuck it, might as well," and got back into it. I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked the last 4 or so episodes of season 1, but now I've just seen the first two of S2 and my perception has changed dramatically.

Holy shit does this show not hold back anymore. That precinct massacre was like straight ripped from the comics. Crazy stuff. Need more.
Click to expand...

woah - what a coincidence. I stopped watching after that exact same episode.

I started watching again after hearing some good things and to my surprise, season 1 ended on a great note. I feel like that's when they figured out the whole "villain of the week" thing wasn't exactly working.

And season 2...some pretty good stuff. Pretty significant turnaround in quality.

I'm sure its been discussed to death but is Theo Galavan an original character? Or is he someone from the comics?
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Flash said:
woah - what a coincidence. I stopped watching after that exact same episode.

I started watching again after hearing some good things and to my surprise, season 1 ended on a great note. I feel like that's when they figured out the whole "villain of the week" thing wasn't exactly working.

And season 2...some pretty good stuff. Pretty significant turnaround in quality.

I'm sure its been discussed to death but is Theo Galavan an original character? Or is he someone from the comics?
Click to expand...

He's new.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Wasn't Butch tortured under Zsasz/Maroni? I just remember that Penguin didn't actually do any setup for it, but came upon it as a result of taking out Fish/Maroni/Falcone.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
Yes, yes he did.

S3 OT is definitely going to have to have a reference to all the child slapping.
Click to expand...

Man, I felt bad for Selina, since she's always protecting Bruce and wanted to see him, but I also got why Alfred did it. It wasn't right, but I get it. Still, Selina though. :(
 
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