Pound_lb003
Member
I wonder who was cast to play her before Hennig left.
I don't believe it was Laura Bailey to begin with.
I don't believe it was Laura Bailey to begin with.
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Uncharted 4 New Character Trailer: Nadine Ross (Laura Bailey)
- Thread starter Loudninja
- Start date
gundamkyoukai
Member
What if they pick a white Hispanic ?
What if they pick a india person ?
I am seeing people saying the want diversity but still trying to find ways to limit it .
Voice acting don't have the problems other media have why limit it ?
I don't know why it offends you so much people discuss it.
We are in an industry that regularly has horrific problems in even hearing the voices of minorities as even the tiniest part of the development process, let alone playing major characters in huge videogame series.
The idea that people can't be very concerned about a white actress voicing a black character - or that there isn't something inherently wrong with it in an industry that has massive problems in this area - is tone deaf in the extreme. There are no hoops to jump through to reach this conclusion. And the same discussion occurs when, say, a white actor plays a Middle Eastern character or an Asian character in Hollywood. And for good reasons, because this has been a huge problem in Hollywood. These are serious problems, and people should reasonably wonder why no adequate person of color could be found to perform these roles. So take a break from GAF, but rest assured that it says more about you than GAF.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
Well id say a good start would be to cast a minority for a minority role.
Crazy, I know
You know what kinda pisses me off?
This is Kandyse McClure, a South African born Canadian actress.
Tell me ND didn't pull an Ellen Page again and model Nadine after her?
Why is she not playing Nadine???
Bring in new talent ND FFS.
I hope you realise that acting is a lot more than just how you look. They may have liked a certain look from certain actors, but not the performances of whomever they would have auditioned for the role.
Hell, they said they originally wanted an old Texan for the role of Joel, and ended up using Troy Baker who's fairly young and not even Texan. Likewise with Ellie being played by Ashley Johnson, who as you may have noticed is not actually 14 years old...
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Considering what they threw out, I doubt she was. Who knows what kind of role Nadine had in the original script and how much they shrunk, enlarged or morphed that role.
Wait, hold up. Troy is indeed not an "old Texan," but he is from Texas!
Edit: yes, yes he doesn't actually sound Texan, but it is kind of funny that he was born in Dallas!
gundamkyoukai
Member
Because you are limiting things in a field that should not have limits .
One of the great things about voicing acting is that it don't have the same limits of other media .
The plus of this is making a characters who every you want and then picking the best person for the roles no matter the race .
Instead all i am seeing is people wanting to go backwards , we should encourage true diversity .
Yes the industry does have a problem with it being mostly white VA but putting limits on devs not going to help .
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
this would be perfect in a world where every capable and qualified person had an equal shot at these roles.
That's not the world we live in
It is not "true diversity" to let nature run its course as it is now, because the natural course of things has demonstrably been to excise diversity from the ranks of industries like this (as is the case in this one).
Additionally, there are no limits on what they can do. As we can see, they - in hilariously tone deaf fashion - cast a white actress for a black character. No limits. But having no limits is not the same as the public being allowed to voice their disgust/disagreement at the choice, nor is that freedom to do what you want freedom from consequences for those actions. If, for example, people decided to boycott the game (not saying they would or should, just for discussion's sake), then they would still be free to do what they want. They just have to accept the public might not want your shit.
That's how the free market works.
Gray Matter
Member
This is why we can't have nice things.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
My bigger issue is that such is what the conversation turned to, and it wasn't a gradual shift either. It was literally a straight sharp shift into that territory, all other merits be damned. These sort of topics are important but sometimes the way they come about feels shoehorned in.
Like, Sony as a publisher and Naughty Dog as a developer are hardly the most offending of the AAA crop when it comes to this. In fact they've routinely been the most progressive. As I said before Sony's regularly employed minorities and worked with minorities in a wide array of positions, much more than most other companies in the industry. So I don't see why they're catching the heat or are becoming the poster-child for this issue when there are others much more deserving of it.
And no this isn't the same thing as what goes on in Hollywood. That's why I found all the Exodus talk odd; the two are only vaguely similar on the surface. The way some people are talking you'd think the deeper reason why they have a problem w/ the VA casting isn't b/c the actor is white, but b/c they don't sound "black" enough to be Nadine. Which just opens up an entirely new can of nasty worms.
That's about all I have to say on this topic; I think I've hopefully gotten my point across.
Resident_UA
Member
I'm trying to catch up on the controversy but it's really confusing... I thought that trailer was cool (although Nate looks really weird now). What are people arguing about?
EDIT: Nevermind. I figured it out. What does color of your skin have to do with who you are voicing? God of War was similar situation but sort of other way around...
What are people arguing about?EDIT: Nevermind. I figured it out. What does color of your skin have to do with who you are voicing? God of War was similar situation but sort of other way around...
Whilst I agree with you completely, people are also allowed to complain about, or disagree with the opinions of those who dislike it, and likewise if you wanted, disagree with those disagreeing with the people disagreeing about it too.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I disagree
Massive_Edge
Banned
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/Nadine_Ross
so i was looking at the uncharted wiki and it says that Nadine and Rafe are cousins..
wat, is this just another wiki inaccuracy or was there mention that they were cousins in the past?
so i was looking at the uncharted wiki and it says that Nadine and Rafe are cousins..
wat, is this just another wiki inaccuracy or was there mention that they were cousins in the past?
gundamkyoukai
Member
There allow to voice there disgust/disagreement or not even by the game and the same goes for me .
And i never said let nature run it course but we should not fall into the same pit fall of other industries when they don't have to .
Fancy Clown
Member
Pretty sure it's an inaccuracy
Massive_Edge
Banned
man you can't trust these wikis anymore...I always assumed that fictional universe wikis tend to be more accurate then your regular wiki
FF Seraphim
Member
Hmm maybe we shouldn't jump down ND's neck without fully knowing if:
1. There was a capable voice actor of color available
2. Maybe this voice actress was the best they could get
Has ND given us any reason to believe they would not hire anyone if they were capable?
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
What pitfalls are we talking now about?
It's implied that if they went with a white actress that they couldn't find a capable actress of color. Which I personally find hard to believe.
Pound_lb003
Member
I remember when they were first talking about Nadine in the Game Informer stuff. She was the leader of a mercenary group. I wonder if that's still the case.
And given that Todd Stashwick was going to be Sam, and presumably Dominic Monaghan was going to be in it somewhere too, I just can't help be be curious who that fresh blood would have been.
I like Laura Bailey, but she's hardly an exciting casting choice. Nolan, Troy and Laura are all quite recognisable faces (errr...voices) already.
brickarts295
Member
I think it was mentioned in Gameinformer.
You mean like Sir Ben Kingsley in Gandhi (and many others)? Linda Hunt in The Year of Living Dangerously? Marlon Brando in Viva Zapata? William Hurt in Kiss of the Spider Woman? Or let's say Laurence Olivier in Othello? Those are some award winning roles in film... How about theatre? Should for example the previously mentioned role of Othello be only played by black people?
Sure a lot of cases like these are ridiculous (especially thinking that all of the ones above either won or were nominated for an oscar), but at the same time can you really discredit some truly grand performances? Should this only be permitted for parodies (I don't think people here object on Robert Downey Jr.'s Kirk Lazarus character)?
I never implied otherwise. But the stark reality is clear. We have an industry almost offensively devoid of diversity. So when you get a black character in a major game, maybe make sure you cast a black individual to voice them. You may believe that's putting "limits", but what that means is that you legitimately couldn't find a black voice actress to do this job just as well. What they says is perhaps even more damning than anything else.
What "pitfalls" have other industries fallen into?
The Artisan
Member
alright. i don't know how to feel about this topic going on this far but i'll say this:
it's not just about the ethnicity or diversifying voice actors, but diversifying the pool of voice actors that there are in general. similar to how troy baker was chosen to play sam, and there was a streak of him playing several different characters. i mean sure that shows how versatile of a voice actor he can be but some people have admitted that it sort of gets to them in their experience of games.
ND will say laura bailey was the best choice for this villain and troy baker was the best choice for sam but could that be because there isn't a huge pool of actors to begin with? maybe there are other voice actors out there who could've done just as good jobs as the ones who got the roles, but we'll never know because the gaming industry is seemingly just using the same actors over and over again in their games.
kind of like how christopher nolan likes to work with several of the same actors again and again. like, if you keep doing that then the audience won't get to see how other actors work and perform under your directorial vision.
it's not just about the ethnicity or diversifying voice actors, but diversifying the pool of voice actors that there are in general. similar to how troy baker was chosen to play sam, and there was a streak of him playing several different characters. i mean sure that shows how versatile of a voice actor he can be but some people have admitted that it sort of gets to them in their experience of games.
ND will say laura bailey was the best choice for this villain and troy baker was the best choice for sam but could that be because there isn't a huge pool of actors to begin with? maybe there are other voice actors out there who could've done just as good jobs as the ones who got the roles, but we'll never know because the gaming industry is seemingly just using the same actors over and over again in their games.
kind of like how christopher nolan likes to work with several of the same actors again and again. like, if you keep doing that then the audience won't get to see how other actors work and perform under your directorial vision.
FF Seraphim
Member
Or it implies they hired the most capable person they could get for the role because someone like Cree Summers couldn't do it.
FunkyPajamas
Member
I'm not so sure about allies, but I do get a "she'll do what's right when the time comes" vibe from her.
I don't mean with her feet.
Massive_Edge
Banned
about the whole laura bailey situation, one of my friends was railing on the whole thing, she went on to say that she also didnt like how Nate, a white male, is positioned as the "hero" and being the most privileged in society vs. Nadine, a black woman who is positioned as the villain and is, what she said the most disenfranchised... and that their fighting
I mean i don't want to cast judgements, but is what she said anyway legitimate about this whole scene
I mean i don't want to cast judgements, but is what she said anyway legitimate about this whole scene
gundamkyoukai
Member
Choosing people base on race \gender when there is no need to .
Yes i know what i am saying is naive in many ways because of how the industry \world is .
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I don't think Troy is particularly exciting either. He's really great and I love the man, but he's become pretty widespread now.
But anyways, like you said, Todd was supposed to be Sam and I found Todd's casting more exciting, but now we've got Troy. I would suspect that with Nadine, they might have either scrapped another actor's material or they never had an actor for the scope of Nadine's current role and they rushed to find someone and ended up with Laura.
They scrapped like eight months of work and it's at least possible they were in a rush to find someone. You find it hard to believe that they couldn't find someone in that hectic timeframe and went with an extremely known, skilled quantity?
Did Black actors play Henry, Marlene and Sam in The Last of Us?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yes .
Picking people for the sake of diversity is not how diversity works. Diversity is equal pay regardless of race/sexual orientation and gender identity, it's hiring based on talent and not looking at those above factors as an issue. Is it possible that hiring on talent is being hindered by bias because of those factors? Possibly, but saying Naughty Dog is one of those is kinda silly since they include minorities often in their triple A games which is rare these days.
I don't mind that Mark Ruffalo played a Gay character in Normal heart. He did a great job portraying it. My only issue is using white actors to portray asian/black etc. That was bad back then lol.
First off, I think you're making a lot of assumptions on her performance based on maybe seven seconds total of voice acting in that clip.
Second, I think you're mistakenly implying that a very narrow problem like the ethnicity of a voice/mo-cap actor is resulting in an overall negative effect on issues of race in society. Yes, it is unfortunate that there is under-representation of minorities in the voice acting industry but I would argue that it's more important that we have a well developed and acted, black, female character than make sure a black woman is providing her voice in a videogame.
The majority of people that play videogames are unaware of who provides the voice for their characters or provides motion capture. Of the nearly 10 million copies of The Last of Us sold, I would honestly wager less than 1-2% of those consumers could tell you who the voice of Joel or Ellie are without looking it up. I'd say even less could tell you who voiced Marlene, Henry, or Sam. You're thinking this problem that would affect an extremely small segment of the population (those in the gaming community that are aware of hiring practices for voice actors) is influential enough to be a detriment on society.
Video games like the ones made by Naughty Dog are remembered for the characters you interact with and I think having a fully developed minority character on that screen is infinitely more positive than any negative associated with who was hired to give their voice.
As a half-black kid growing up, I loved comic books, particularly Spider-Man. I was kind of burnt out on comics by the time the 2000s rolled around and had checked out completely by 2010. But the introduction of Miles Morales, a black Spider-Man, won me back and got me into comics again because it was a character I identified with. If I follow the logic of so many griping about Bailey's casting as Nadine in this thread, I should be upset Marvel for allowing Brian Michael Bendis - a bald, white, Jewish man - to be his creator and the man who has almost exclusively provided his voice on paper for so long when there are other capable black comic writers that could have been doing the job.
Part of the beauty of videogames, comics, etc over film, television and the like is that it can transcend the limitations and unfortunate circumstances of reality. Would I like to see more black voice actors get roles? Yeah, of course. But I'd rather see my race and all races portrayed in a more thoughtful, developed role in videogames even more. That is what's going to grow the medium and have a positive effect on society more than any negative that comes with the failures of institutional casting practices or who gets a paycheck for providing their voice.
superNESjoe
Member
I popped into this thread to say the character looked cool and I'm excited for the game but....looks like that isn't what this thread is about.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
That's fine. Still made a bad decision regardless of circumstances. I'd rather they had a person of color in the role instead of a white actress, plain and simple. If that meant that they would have to delay the production then so be it.
But that's me.
Naughty dog may have had a good track record regarding their casting choices in the past, sure, but that doesn't make them immune to criticism when they get it wrong. And imho, they got it wrong.
Stratosphere
Member
This thread is not what I expected it to be. Probably my own fault.
Hamster Plugin
Member
It's a Naughty Dog game and ND hasn't had female enemies in any of their games so this is a likely thing that can happen. Alternatively they'll do another Uncharted 3 style cop-out where
the female villain dies of some other cause and you'll fight her male sidekick instead
So for ND this is an outlier either way. Presumably they just really liked Laura Bailey's performance.
The Artisan
Member
i'm not saying picking people should delegate who they pick based on racial diversity, but diversity overall. it very much seems largely like the same actors are used again and again in high profile video games. unless you're disputing that to further a discussion, I thought I made that point pretty clear in my last post.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Now that's fucking embarrassing.PSY・S;187970388 said:
plasmawave
Banned
NVM, you sneaky ninja.
Yep.
EDIT: Beaten.
This whole issue is overblown imo. It's not like this a thing that ND does (hiring white VAs to voice black characters). The casting decisions that they they have made in their past games have showed us that this not a thing that they do. There's no precedent set by ND that indicates that there's a greater social issue at play here. Like someone had previously said, they hired Troy Baker to voice a gruff, Texan 50-something guy. Everything here indicates that Laura Bailey outperformed her peers during her auditions and thus, she was given the job.
Massive_Edge
Banned
so essentially does this mean only a white male can play Gordon Freeman?