HORRORSHØW
Member
redmond
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Who is preventing online cross-play from happening?
- Thread starter Blak_Status
- Start date
Did I miss the memo where it was decided that only steam games count as PC games?
we already knew it's MS. How is this a thread?
edit - should say "when all else is equal". There are instances where lack of cross-play is based on technical requirements. i.e. not having FPS titles cross play where PC is kbm and console is dual analog. Blizzard said cross-play was out for for Diablo because PC required Battle.net whereas console they couldn't require battle.net/online.
So, if everything is equal (Rocket League, etc), it's MS' fault. If one side would have an unreasonable advantage or there is some other technical limitation, then it comes down to the dev.
edit - should say "when all else is equal". There are instances where lack of cross-play is based on technical requirements. i.e. not having FPS titles cross play where PC is kbm and console is dual analog. Blizzard said cross-play was out for for Diablo because PC required Battle.net whereas console they couldn't require battle.net/online.
So, if everything is equal (Rocket League, etc), it's MS' fault. If one side would have an unreasonable advantage or there is some other technical limitation, then it comes down to the dev.
I put the 'actual' on quotations because I think it is crossplay but I can definitely see why someone would argue it isn't. And no I don't hate MS.
edit.
Of course they count. See the above.
"handful more" sure. I think you've missed the point though. It's clear that they prevent it on other services which would relegate Playstation and PC steam crossplay with Xbox. There is no "MS hate" here just a very basic observation.
Moon_frogger
Member
there's no need to speculate anymore. It's microsoft. playstation gamers have been enjoying cross platform gaming since the ps2 gen. microsoft did it for a while with FFXI but no more. It's part of the reason street fighter V, a multiplatform title, isn't coming to xbox one. there is a pretty substantial list of cross platform titles and they are all for Playstation and PC. even the upcoming rocketleague port for xbox one will have to have separate matchmaking pool.
It's because of microsoft, and fuck them so hard.
also FUCKING LOL at people defending them because a couple of their own upcoming first party titles being cross on PC. they have still held back cross platform play and ostensibly denied games to their users because of their idiotic policies. You people have stockholm syndrome.
It's because of microsoft, and fuck them so hard.
also FUCKING LOL at people defending them because a couple of their own upcoming first party titles being cross on PC. they have still held back cross platform play and ostensibly denied games to their users because of their idiotic policies. You people have stockholm syndrome.
Leafhopper
Banned
Did Final Fantasy 11 have cross-play between the PS2 and PC? I think I remember the 360 community being by itself.
FFXI was cross-play between all of them, but as was noted above in the Naoki Yoshida interview it was an exception granted just to get FF13 on the system.
They did, but I'm pretty sure that the 360 version was also cross-play with those versions, as it didn't actually use Xbox Live. It didn't even launch with achievements right away.
PSU was definitely split up like that, though.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
It's Microsoft, and it's well known.
It's not MS hate. The point is that few if any devs (outside of those owned/published by MS) will ever touch MS's crossplatform multiplayer solution because it requires segregating PC players between Steam and the Windows App Store.
By requiring devs either ignore Steam or split the player pool into "Xbox and Windows App Store" and "Steam, PSN and Nintendo, iOS & Android", MS have ensured that their crossplatform solution is not feasible for the vast majority of devs, and it is primarily used cases where MS is funding development.
Their current polices are reminiscent of their policies during GFWL, but at least that didn't exclude Steam.
FFXI 360 IIRC didn't require/use Live.. and was a granted exception. Square/Yoshida have pretty much expressly said that FFXIV not on XBONE/360 is because of the same policy.
BibiMaghoo
Member
While MS have been touted as responsible for a lack of PS/PC/Xbox servers, I'm not entirely sure that Sony themselves would allow PS/Xbox cross play. To my knowledge they have never done so, and as a result I think it reasonable to assume it's not just down to MS when it comes to mixing all three. We only have one example when MS said no, but we have no examples where Sony said yes, if you get me.
The Faceless Master
Member
Microsoft since Burnout Paradise at least.
Anything to beat Sony to getting a Final Fantasy on their console!
In all honesty, whilst I like the idea of having a singular large playerbase where everyone can play with everyone can play with everyone else... I can also see why MS (and even some in the XBL community) would rather not have the ecosystems overlap. In some ways it detracts from much of the standardisation that made Xbox Live appealing in comparison to the wild-west nature of online gaming that was prominent on PC prior to it. When I play a game on XBL, I can reliably invite a player to my Xbox party (which is helpful now that game chat is largely dead), I can add the to my friends list and know when they're online next time to maybe invite them, even if they're not already playing that game. I don't have to worry about them using a differnt communication system (such as Steam voice chat) that essentially breaks the community into smaller sub-communities etc. Cross platform play removes most of the inherent advantages of services like Xbox Live, PSN and Steam in exchange for an increased playerbase that many may not ever actually notice anyway (have a pool of 150,000 players instead f 40,000 for a game with 8 player instances probably won't have much benefit to people unless some of those 8 are people they already know, that are part of a different ecosystem. It adds additional complexity and QoL concerns that are then outside of the service providers control... and that's not even considering the unpleasant experiences that may occur as a result of fans of competing consoles finding themselves on opposing sides of a team deathmatch, lol. I mean, look at this place (or GameFAQs), we're basically a cross-platform forum... and things get nasty here all the damn time... and this place is heavily moderated.
If it's already stopping right at MS saying no, what use is it then to see if Sony would have said yes?
Sony has no policy whatsoever. And no technical limitation. Devs are free to use whatever servers they want, and thus free to have whatever clients connect to those servers they want. IIRC, this comes mostly down to "all XBox online servers are Live servers and on the Live network infrastructure".
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Creating a segregation in a platform and then claiming you have "cross-play" with that platform is pretty poor honestly.
Ensuring that users of your online service can still expect all of the features of your service, while also having these features built into the most recent version of your OS is a pretty good counter point IMHO
More importantly, it's already been established in this thread that Sony is okay with PlayStation/Nintendo cross-play to some degree.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Microsoft will let you do cross play with Windows 10 users in select games. Sony with steam users in select games. Sony generally seem quite open to it with PC. MS, less so unless they can generate revenue from it.
Rocket League is cross play between PS4 and Steam on PC. It's already been confirmed to not be cross play between XB1 and PC.
Edit: I made a mistake, not Windows 10 users, I meant users that bought their games off the Windows App Store
Rocket League is cross play between PS4 and Steam on PC. It's already been confirmed to not be cross play between XB1 and PC.
Edit: I made a mistake, not Windows 10 users, I meant users that bought their games off the Windows App Store
UnemployedVillain
Member
This. I'm not sure why people assumed otherwise
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I don't think it's QUITE that open and free. You can't send chat messages between PS4 and PC players in Rocket League (only quick chat), for example, and there's no technical reason why that couldn't happen. It's a limitation imposed by Sony. But yeah, overall they're pretty good about it.
They have though. Final Fantasy IX... as soon as MS granted an exception, all three platforms played together. There's literally no evidence to suggest this wouldn't be the case with any other game MS allowed it to happen with.
SomedayTheFire
Member
I don't think that's a limitation imposed by Sony, unless you can point it out. I know the developers have talked at length of the difficulties in linking up PSN and Steam for parties due to their architectures.
Mass Effect
Member
Oh please. And a single game from almost 10 years ago is hardly compelling evidence. And as of now, neither Fable nor KI are out yet.
Also, notice that the only cross-platform games are MS games. Don't expect 3rd-party games to ever have it when it comes to Xbox unless they change their stance.
Not even sure what you're trying to say here. You can do matchmaking with cross-platform (you can turn it off too) on Rocket League. If you're talking about parties, then Psyonix has said that it's quite difficult to do, which is why we don't have it yet.
It's not "Windows 10 users", it's "On games bought through the Windows App Store".
krizalidzero
Member
MS did it because they needed it only, it is really not the way they do things and they won't do it again unless they feel forced to do so. They literally have an anti cross-platform policy.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Sorry, my mistake. That's what I meant.
Dragon Puncher
Member
Microsoft is definitely against it. Sony seems fine with cross play between PS consoles and PC, but beyond that we don't really know.
xenorevlis
Member
I find your lack of willingness to accept basic observations and real-life examples in these threads that refute your claim amusing. This isn't "MS hate" but rather pointing out that they have wanted and continue to maintain a "closed" community, with quotes from devs, and that it wasn't the case in the past (for a single instance).
Quite frankly if we want this to change, people should be more vocal about it with MS (and Sony) so that amazing games like Rocket League benefit from larger player pools!
kavanf1
Member
I think what's likely here is that MS is a victim of its own specialisms - so many divisions, so many conflicting policies, so much bureaucracy that the likes of Sony and Nintendo don't have to contend with. Rather than being intentionally anti-consumer, it seems much more likely that MS have created themselves so many hoops to jump through that they are actually preventing themselves from providing something valuable to their Xbox customers. I've seen this kind of bureaucracy tie organisations in knots and in some cases preventing them from taking a commercial advantage.
Hell, just this year back in September it was announced indie game Dreii would have cross play compatible with Wii U and Vita.
So, in theory if Psyonix ever released Rocket League on Wii U/NX, we could see a common unity between home consoles, which unless I'm much mistaken would be the first of its kind.
But it's a shame to think that with MS current policies there isn't a snowball's chance in hell to think that there would be cross play with everyone's phones, consoles and toasters of every different Minecraft iteration. That is the biggest loss of all.
So, in theory if Psyonix ever released Rocket League on Wii U/NX, we could see a common unity between home consoles, which unless I'm much mistaken would be the first of its kind.
But it's a shame to think that with MS current policies there isn't a snowball's chance in hell to think that there would be cross play with everyone's phones, consoles and toasters of every different Minecraft iteration. That is the biggest loss of all.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
That's different. Setting up parties is done using each platform's friends system to invite people, etc, so they'd basically have to develop their own solution for all of that. You can still have Steam players join your private PS4 games, just not through a party. And no, with all the data that IS sent between PS4 and Steam players, there absolutely is no technical reason they couldn't also send some plain text. All we're talking about is in-match chat messages that everyone can see, not direct player-to-player messaging.
Why would a game like final fantasy 14 work flawlessly if it were Sony policy that limited it?
It's only an important distinction to make because MS seem dead set on conflating the two.
If you could do Xbox > Steam users on Windows 10, there would be a lot more cross platform games on Xbox
SomedayTheFire
Member
I know what you're talking about but I don't think we can conclusively say either way if it's a policy or a technical limitation on the way the game handles and sends messages through both online systems. I will concede if I am wrong though.
Try using your Papa Gino's loyalty card at a Papa Johns and see how well it works. Not like companies refusing to work with their competition is exactly exclusive to consoles.
Look one post up.
Blak_Status
Member
I'm looking at it more like my friend bought a Papa Gino's pizza and I bought a Papa John's pizza. I'm able to eat a slice of his pizza and he's able to eat a slice of mine. Both of those companies got their money.
I'm sure they don't care when it's a product that will be sold exclusively on their PC storefront and run on their servers. I don't get what they get out of this stance. Comes across as incredibly stupid and offers no benefit to them at all besides bad word of mouth.
EDIT: if you're talking about playing with other people on consoles, I don't see that ever happening unless it's an MMO.
you can chat in DCU Online, FFXIV, etc just fine between the two platforms. Hell, in DCU O you can ONLY chat between platforms, as you can't actually play between platforms (again, technical reason). So yeah... I would make a ban bet on the lack of chat coming from the devs themselves, and not from Sony.
edit - and I edited my post above previously to state technical or "advantageous" reasons. Maybe the devs don't want to consider PS4 players to be playing WITH a keyboard also on their lap for chatting?