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[SixMachine]

The only problem is people who have no idea what it means. Watch Sword Art Online and then you can talk about Mary/Gary Stus.

Well at least you didn't mention Mahouka....

Spoiler

Lord "I pull everything out of my butt" Tatsuya

 

[TheKaeptain]

Wut?

Luke: "I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than that."

Red Leader: "Are you sure you can handle this ship?"
Biggs: "Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim territories."
Red Leader: "You'll do alright."

I never said he wasn't a pilot. He had to use the force to hit the target. He only knew the force was a thing for a few days too.

 

[munchie64]

Saw it a second time, even better than the first time!

I also read the vehicle cross section book that had a crazy amount of info about the governments. So in the book it mentions that the new class of star destroyer is a violation of the weapons treaty the republic had with the first order. which means the first order is a legal government entity recognized by the republic.

The first order was formed in the "unknown territories", this is where they built Starkiller base, trained all the children and builtall their ships to hide it from the republic. They don't have infinite funds like the empire has so they needed to focus more on protecting their investments. The book says that unlike the empire they don't view their pilots as expendable, so the new TIEs have built in shields. The book makes mention that they have far fewer resources than the empire. Because they can't build so many star destroyers they made sure to fix the flaw from ended, so now there is an emergency bridge inside the ship in case the top one is blow up.

Now the resistance is explained as well. Leia knows the first order is run by Snoke, the republic doesn't believe a Sith Lord is running this new group, in fact the republic doesn't know of any of the illegal operations the first order is running. So Leia gets support from all her close friends in the republic to form the resistance. They use whatever ships they can salvage, the transport she arrives in is a modified b-wing for instance. She has no capital ships, it's just a small group of... Rebels basically.

There is a bunch of cool stuff about the Falcon and the freighter Han owns. The falcon has a special room as a wedding gift for Leia. On the freighter There is a mysterious cargo container that has always been locked and Han doesn't know the code so it just sits there unopened. It talks about the falcon ownership line and a few thinks Han and Chewie were doing as smugglers.

Gotta admit whoever came up with all this stuff actually did a pretty good job. In the the film, the political salutation is kinda crazy, but this seems pretty legit. Just wish it was in the movie.

 

[Bishop89]

I tried to look for the ending on YouTube and other sites but couldn't find it. I did however find this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6P5cL1kpZc

Good enough, right?

lol not quite.

I found it anyways

 

[JTripper]

It's not just that she's good with The Force for unexplained reasons, but that she's good at everything else too. She's an ace pilot, great mechanic, and adept at hand-to-hand combat. She has no character flaws and is easily able to do pretty much everything. That's the definition of a Mary Sue.

I would disagree entirely with the Mary Sue argument if her weaknesses were present and shown to some degree, but they simply weren't. Sure she's a loner and probably has issues with trusting people according to her situation on Jakku, but she seemed to warm up to BB-8 and Finn awfully quick so there goes that potential struggle.

 

[Link Man]

Just wanted to say that Han's gutsy use of hyperdrive was completely nuts. Loved both instances.

 

[Monocle]

Using the Bowcaster wasn't just a "laugh here" moment. It was also to set up Ren getting shot by it at the end. Supposed to show that he was in a weakened state and also absurdly strong. He just took a direct gut(?) shot from a gun that kills almost everything from hitting near it.

That too.

 

[Dalek]

Just wanted to say that Han's gutsy use of hyperdrive was completely nuts. Loved both instances.

I did love both of those parts.

 

[chicko1983]

So, just got back from round 2.

I now am really thinking Rey is a Kenobi, despite all of her Skywalker like traits.

I would like her to be a Kenobi.

However, Star Wars is about the Skywalker dynasty.

Also, Kenobi wouldnt have had any children as he was a jedi.

 

[BrokenFiction]

Rey and the piloting thing - read Greg Rucka's Before the Awakening. It just came out yesterday. In Rey's story, she finds an old working flight simulator/trainer while scavenging and because she's so lonely all the time, learns it backwards and forwards. Frankly she's probably one of the best pilots out there with no actual flight time because the simulator had tons and tons of different starships to practice on. It's where she picked up a lot of mechanical skills too.

 

[Brakke]

Do we actually know this? I mean is there a galactic map or something else that actually lays out any of this geography?

I mean yes there *is* a galactic map in this movie.

 

[pigeon]

It's not just that she's good with The Force for unexplained reasons, but that she's good at everything else too. She's an ace pilot, great mechanic, and adept at hand-to-hand combat. She has no character flaws and is easily able to do pretty much everything. That's the definition of a Mary Sue.

Honestly, the issue is just that the conception of what a hero should look like in the mass media has changed a lot since A New Hope. It's actually pretty conventional now to just skip the hero's journey and have the main character start out incredibly powerful. See Harry Potter.

 

[NimbusD]

I disagree, no one cares about that stuff, they just want to see an exciting movie.

Leave it for the books and Anthology movies and ancillary TV shows.

I mean,not everything for sure.but like,explain at least the state of the republic and what the first order exactly is.


Something t hat related thing that annoys me.we invested 3 movies into Luke and team defeating the empire and we don't even get to really see any of the fruits of their labor.or even hear about it.all that and we hear a few sentences about there being a republic and then it's blown up a few minutes later. Makes the ot feel so inconsequential.

While the pt obvs has a million problems,it at least built towards the next trilogy,and now we're starting this new one at ground zero as if nothing in the ot mattered,cuz bad guys just appear and take us back to zero.

 

[Mario]

Believe me there are many thing in your life that you haven't try it yet even it is very close to you.

The dialogue and acting around it was off for that. Ford made it look like suddenly Han was practically seeing the bowcaster for the first time, and the dialogue would have better with a "would you just let me use that for a change" angle.

As it was, it seemed forced.

 

[brickarts295]

So, just got back from round 2.

I now am really thinking Rey is a Kenobi, despite all of her Skywalker like traits.

Maybe I'm far fetching here but I actually believe the same mostly through visual looks. Rey's costume kinda struck me as very Obi Wan-ish. On a side note, Ben Solo kinda resembles EP3's Anakin facial appearance. I would find it funny that this time, a Skywalker would take a Kenobi as his apprentice, lets see how this turns out XD
Honestly though I'm more on the "she's Luke's daughter" side.

 

[Jarmel]

Honestly, the issue is just that the conception of what a hero should look like in the mass media has changed a lot since A New Hope. It's actually pretty conventional now to just skip the hero's journey and have the main character start out incredibly powerful. See Harry Potter.

Wait what? Harry is fairly typical for most of the books.

 

[lastplayed]

That's like upgrading from a dustcropper to an F-22.

What a Mary Sue.

 

[MikeDown]

Haha I totally disagree, on both of those points.

I really REALLY disliked Snoke. I thought he was a lame Emperor pretender made entirely of CG, like a remaining stain they forgot to wash off from the prequel era

I guess it might be cool if he turns out to be Plagueis like some are predicting, but honestly if early on in the next one Kylo cuts him down after finsihing training, I'd be fine with that.

Harrison Ford rocked it, straight up.

The Emperor in the prequel era came off to me as a disgruntled old man more then anything else. Despite having some awesome scenes he was pretty bland. He wasn't scary or anything, can't really attach an emotion to the guy. In the OT he is mentioned a few times in a New Hope, but I really liked him in Empire where when you briefly see him as a hologram his appearance seemed other worldly. Like his existence & his knowledge of the force is shrouded in mystery. He came off as some sort of mystical ancient being. In revenge of the Jedi I never got any of those feels. He seemed like an entirely different character, cruel, cold, calculated, manipulative & very sinister. Which is great cause it worked for the movie.

Snoke was more akin to the emperor in Empire. And I would be fine with Ren cutting him down after his training because that would be great for his story of trying to become the most powerful sith ever.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I would like her to be a Kenobi.

However, Star Wars is about the Skywalker dynasty.

Also, Kenobi wouldnt have had any children as he was a jedi.

Well, he may have faltered on those rules after Anakin fell.

But I do feel like the Skywalker lineage needs to continue in positive way, Something Kylo certainly isn't achieving.

Maybye she's a Skykenobi. :lol

Maybe I'm far fetching here but I actually believe the same mostly through visual looks. Rey's costume kinda struck me as very Obi Wan-ish. On a side note, Ben Solo kinda resembles EP3's Anakin facial appearance. I would find it funny that this time, a Skywalker would take a Kenobi as his apprentice, lets see how this turns out XD

It seems fitting, having a Kenobi trained by a Skywalker.

 

[Smokey_Run]

I thought it was good, but not amazing. I think one of the biggest things that bugged the shit out of me was using essentially the same method to take down yet another super weapon. Three movies in a row now, find something else to do please.

I tried to avoid spoilers, but honestly after watching the film, I don't know what could have been actually spoiled for me. Knowing Ford doesn't give a fuck about the character or Star Wars makes it painfully obvious he was dead, it was just a matter of how. Most of the other stuff is right in front of your face if you followed the speculation and have heard anything about some of the EU stories. I'm more interested to see where they go with the second film.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

And nonsense science in the OT isn't a disaster because they never use it pull anything off. Han approaches Starkiller at lightspeed, no? That's like, the reason he's able to accomplish his thing. If you're going to cheat the science into complete nonsense, don't hang plot points on it.

But they are hanging plot points on it in the OT. As you note the rebels only get time to prepare a defense because they come out of light speed so far away but, one movie later, we see the Rebel Fleet come out of lightspeed pretty much on top of the Imperial Fleet. So there was really no reason that the Imperials couldn't have come out of Light Speed closer to Hoth and made a true surprise attack other than to provide a plot point to give them a fighting chance.

I mean yes there *is* a galactic map in this movie.

Did the map actually show how these systems related to each other? I don't remember it.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

Haha I totally disagree, on both of those points.

I really REALLY disliked Snoke. I thought he was a lame Emperor pretender made entirely of CG, like a remaining stain they forgot to wash off from the prequel era
.

He looked like a character from Harry Potter.

 

[Branduil]

Honestly, the issue is just that the conception of what a hero should look like in the mass media has changed a lot since A New Hope. It's actually pretty conventional now to just skip the hero's journey and have the main character start out incredibly powerful. See Harry Potter.

There's actually a much better argument for Harry Potter being a Gary Stu than Rey and yet that's not brought up nearly as much for some reason.

 

[More_Badass]

Yup, that was pretty stupid. At least I thought he was gonna comment on it as some sort of joke but nope.

Another thing I found silly was how Kylo, while reading Rey's mind, discovered she saw Han Solo aa a father figure. Gurl, you've only known the guy for a couple of hours and I didn't see anything on screen that indicated that prior to that scene.

The movie hints that Han knew Rey. Maybe she remembered him subconsciously

 

[John Harker]

What was the deal with C3PO's red arm?

 

[Lynd7]

The only choice for old Luke is Hamill. I don't see why people say he was a bad actor in the OT, I think he's gonna kill it in VIII.

I think Rey did come across at being adept at everything she touched. Having Han correct her on something in the Falcon might of been good.

Swapping out the mind trick for a simple move of a lever with the force might of made her pull of the saber at the end better.

 

[Link Man]

Also, all the people calling Rey a Mary Sue: are you overlooking the fact that she seems terrified of the Force, of accepting her apparent destiny? I mean, the final shot is her trying to hand Luke the lightsaber, fear in her eyes, as if she's asking him to fight in her place.

Kind of a big character flaw for the protagonist.

 

[kewlmyc]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

Yeah. It's a big movie release opening weekend. It was to be expected.

 

[foxtrot3d]

I never said he wasn't a pilot. He had to use the force to hit the target. He only knew the force was a thing for a few days too.

What I'm getting at is that The Force did not grant Luke new knowledge it allowed him to get a "feel" for the right time to fire. He didn't tap into The Force and suddenly learn how to fly a X-Wing after having never previously flown anything in his life.

 

[Jarmel]

There's actually a much better argument for Harry Potter being a Gary Stu than Rey and yet that's not brought up nearly as much for some reason.

You have to be shitting me. Hermoine is the near perfect one in the books and she literally is a Mary Sue.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

The dialogue and acting around it was off for that. Ford made it look like suddenly Han was practically seeing the bowcaster for the first time, and the dialogue would have better with a "would you just let me use that for a change" angle.

As it was, it seemed forced.

Yeah true. He did seem a bit too interested/impressed by it. That or "Can I borrow that for just one second..." -kills bunch of storm troopers- "Hmm I like it."

 

[AxelFoley]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

Yup, my theater did all that.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Well, he may have faltered on those rules after Anakin fell.

But I do feel like the Skywalker lineage needs to continue in positive way, Something Kylo certainly isn't achieving.

Maybye she's a Skykenobi. :lol



It seems fitting, having a Kenobi trained by a Skywalker.

I'm telling you Luke finally got around to picking up those power converters and met Old Ben's daughter there.

 

[Speevy]

I hope Snoke is gigantic so he can eat a few people.

 

[Brakke]

The Imperials *could've* come out of speed closer to Hoth but they *didn't*. The Rebels come out close to the Imperial Fleet but their plan doesn't require coming out on top of the Imperial fleet. They even come out of it way too early. In JJ-verse, they wouldn't waited out of range for word to come from the moon that the shield was down. Hell, in JJ verse there is no concept of "out of range".

 

[kurahador]

Also, Kenobi wouldnt have had any children as he was a jedi.

Considering how in his point of view Anakin fallen to the dark side was cause by his love for Padme (or him letting Anakin fell in love), the notion of him having a child is a huge betrayal to that.

 

[meanspartan]

The Emperor in the prequel era came off to me as a disgruntled old man more then anything else. Despite having some awesome scenes he was pretty bland. He wasn't scary or anything, can't really attach an emotion to the guy. In the OT he is mentioned a few times in a New Hope, but I really liked him in Empire where when you briefly see him as a hologram his appearance seemed other worldly. Like his existence & his knowledge of the force is shrouded in mystery. He came off as some sort of mystical ancient being. In revenge of the Jedi I never got any of those feels. He seemed like an entirely different character, cruel, cold, calculated, manipulative & very sinister. Which is great cause it worked for the movie.

Snoke was more akin to the emperor in Empire. And I would be fine with Ren cutting him down after his training because that would be great for his story of trying to become the most powerful sith ever.

On this note, do we know that Ren is even a Sith? The word was only said once in TFA, and in a sentence that seemed to draw a distinction between Sith, Empire, and First Order.

It implied that while all Sith are dark side force users, not all dark side force users are sith. I might be mistaken though.

I think it may be moving back towards the OT path of just not saying Sith really.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Also, all the people calling Rey a Mary Sue: are you overlooking the fact that she seems terrified of the Force, of accepting her apparent destiny? I mean, the final shot is her trying to hand Luke the lightsaber, fear in her eyes, as if she's asking him to fight in her place.

Kind of a big character flaw for the protagonist.

So her character flaw is that she's so good at stuff she's afraid of it?

 

[JTripper]

I hope Snoke is gigantic so he can eat a few people.

Snoke = An intelligent Rancor

I'd dig it.

 

[Branduil]

You have to be shitting me. Hermoine is the near perfect one in the books and she literally is a Mary Sue.

Kills the Dark Lord as a baby, is loved by everyone except the obviously evil jerks who are just jealous of him, becomes a star jock almost immediately despite no knowledge of the wizarding world, never gets in real trouble for breaking the rules, etc. I mean, I'm not saying he actually is a Gary Stu, but you can make a much better argument than "Rey is a quick learner(with magic powers) therefore Mary Sue."

 

[Blastoise]

I would love to see it again. But fuck paying $25 again.

I guess I have to waiting till the VOD hits.....in like 3 months.

 

[BrokenFiction]

Snoke = An intelligent Rancor

I'd dig it.

The son of the Rancor that Luke killed. Now it all makes sense.

This is a revenge story!

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

What Gary Stu's their aim is neigh perfect!

 

[JTripper]

Also, all the people calling Rey a Mary Sue: are you overlooking the fact that she seems terrified of the Force, of accepting her apparent destiny? I mean, the final shot is her trying to hand Luke the lightsaber, fear in her eyes, as if she's asking him to fight in her place.

Kind of a big character flaw for the protagonist.

I don't buy that for a second. She was pretty eager to use that mind trick and seemed to fare pretty well when reminded of the force in her lightsaber battle. If anything, her "fear of the force" was only because she had a scary vision, to which Mas Kanada explained wtf the force is to her and Rey was just like "oh ok that's actually cool"

 

[jtb]

Mary Sue... eh I don't even know what that means

she shouldn't have been able to beat Kylo. I stand by that, getting shot by a bowcaster or not. that's the only real problem. hard to feel like she has much room to grow when she already managed to out-Force the main villain of the film. all the other stuff is forgivable (if kinda dumb), but not that

 

[Jarmel]

Kills the Dark Lord as a baby, is loved by everyone except the obviously evil jerks who are just jealous of him, becomes a star jock almost immediately despite no knowledge of the wizarding world, never gets in real trouble for breaking the rules, etc. I mean, I'm not saying he actually is a Gary Stu, but you can make a much better argument than "Rey is a quick learner(with magic powers) therefore Mary Sue."

He doesn't directly kill the Dark Lord, his mother is the one responsible. He does become a star jock and he got away with rule breaking but so did pretty much everyone in that school. Dumbledore practically encouraged rule breaking. Harry was mediocre to good in almost all his subjects. Hermoine was the exceptional one of the trio.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Considering how in his point of view Anakin fallen to the dark side was cause by his love for Padme (or him letting Anakin fell in love), the notion of him having a child is a huge betrayal to that.

In Return Obi-wan says Vader was seduced by the Emperor. Also, Obi did have a girlfriend at one time.

 

[The One and Done™]

http://youtu.be/G-xjH61VyNA

The first 2 minutes of this is my new favorite SW theme. Holy shit the euphoria. It encompasses everything I felt during the film. John Williams is a fucking Saint!!

 

[LegalEagleMike]

On this note, do we know that Ren is even a Sith? The word was only said once in TFA, and in a sentence that seemed to draw a distinction between Sith, Empire, and First Order.

It implied that while all Sith are dark side force users, not all dark side force users are sith. I might be mistaken though.

I think it may be moving back towards the OT path of just not saying Sith really.

its mention in the novelization and one of the art books that he is not a Sith.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I just realized that with the creation of the Starkiller Base, this is quite literally a "star war" now.