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[Finale Fireworker]

I am less concerned with the characters that have been finally added to Smash Bros than I am with all the characters that will be inevitably cut from Smash V.

And believe me: there will be a lot of them. All of these DLC characters, especially the third party ones, are short lived miracles. As a Snake fan, I've already died and gone to Hell. But seven years from now, you will all know what it means to suffer.

You will know what it means to lose someone you love.
You will know what it means to not have been able to say goodbye.
You will know what it means to be alone.

 

[Cerium]

I am less concerned with the characters that have been finally added to Smash Bros than I am with all the characters that will be inevitably cut from Smash V.

And believe me: there will be a lot of them. All of these DLC characters, especially the third party ones, are short lived miracles. As a Snake fan, I've already died and gone to Hell. But seven years from now, you will all know what it means to suffer.

You will know what it means to lose someone you love.
You will know what it means to not have been able to say goodbye.
You will know what it means to be alone.

The other third parties aren't Konami tho.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

The other third parties aren't Konami tho.

But they are likely expensive acquisitions whose inclusions are only justifiable by the fact that they command a premium price. Nintendo is probably paying licenses for these characters, or has some sort of profit-share contract, and I can't imagine characters like Cloud and Ryu would ever appear in a base game.

While this is all conjecture, I feel this is supported by how minimally these characters are actually represented. Street Fighter and Final Fantasy only come with two songs a piece, which seems to indicate the licensing fees for the music (a notorious hang-up in any industry, as writers and composers usually have control or claim to royalties whenever their music is used) were not a cost-effective inclusion for the $5.99 character packages.

I would love to be wrong.

Other than that, if characters like Mewtwo, Roy, and Lucas were not considered important enough to make it into the base game this time, they probably won't be next time either. And I feel it's unlikely that Nintendo would make a second series of DLC for Smash V that includes the same DLC characters from Smash 4.

Again, I would love to be wrong.

 

[Tingle]

I am less concerned with the characters that have been finally added to Smash Bros than I am with all the characters that will be inevitably cut from Smash V.

And believe me: there will be a lot of them. All of these DLC characters, especially the third party ones, are short lived miracles. As a Snake fan, I've already died and gone to Hell. But seven years from now, you will all know what it means to suffer.

You will know what it means to lose someone you love.
You will know what it means to not have been able to say goodbye.
You will know what it means to be alone.

To be fair, people said the exact same thing about Smash4, and that pretty much didn't happen. All things considered, we got pretty much everyone who didn't have major issues (Snake/Ice Climbers) or just weren't important (Ivysaur/Squirtile) except Wolf.

Konami just is in an awful state right now, so drawing patterns from a single instance seems strange to me.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

To be fair, people said the exact same thing about Smash4, and that pretty much didn't happen. All things considered, we got pretty much everyone who didn't have major issues (Snake/Ice Climbers) or just weren't important (Ivysaur/Squirtile) except Wolf.

To be fair, we all die someday and we cannot stop the inevitable clip of death.

But I agree, Smash 4 generally has more inclusions than exclusions and the heartbreaking losses are somewhat offset by exciting gains. But we still lost six characters, five once Lucas returned through DLC. But we said goodbye to Snake, Wolf, Lucas, Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Ice Climbers. That was sad. The lesson here is that no one is safe. Some characters, like Ike, are going to get lucky. Other characters will not.

Just don't get too comfortable. That's how they get you.

 

[Green Mamba]

Cloud's the iffiest third party character to come back just based on how little Square Enix seems to be involved in the process in comparison to the rest of the third party companies, but that might just be due to how they were added late to the party. Bayonetta's less of a bona fide gaming icon than the others so there might be some leeway there but I don't want to make any strong statement there before she's even released, lol. But yeah, licensing is always going to be the toughest aspect of third party relations.

But going forward, unless the next Smash is some sort of Ultra Smash 4, there are going to be cuts, and not just easy ones like Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Roy.

 

[Conrad Link]

I'll vote for Ridley forever!!!

Or just a Metroid, that would have been cool.

I know it was just a joke, and I hate Cena, but honestly I'd rather have him than the number of FE sword fighters we have.

 

[bigDdestruction]

Pacman should've skipped out on this one. Klonoa is far more interesting

 

[Finale Fireworker]

But going forward, unless the next Smash is some sort of Ultra Smash 4, there are going to be cuts, and not just easy ones like Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Roy.

I'm inclined to believe that everybody added through DLC is already on the Smash V cutting room floor. Many were low-priority characters and others are assumingly complicated contracts. Mewtwo wasn't important enough to make it into Brawl or Smash 4's launch roster. Will he really be important enough in Smash V?

What about Lucas? Dear, dear, Lucas...

 

[Speedwagon]

Pacman should've skipped out on this one. Klonoa is far more interesting

no

 

[Cerium]

Mewtwo wasn't left out due to "importance" he was left out because they had to recreate him from scratch because Melee data couldn't be imported. The fact that he was the very first DLC character shows the level of priority he was given.

Pacman should've skipped out on this one. Klonoa is far more interesting

Konami tho.

It's a shame, with Konami they had almost all the major Japanese publishers. Only missing Tecmo Koei I guess, and who would you even take from them? Kasumi? The other Ryu?

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Mewtwo wasn't left out due to "importance" he was left out because they had to recreate him from scratch because Melee data couldn't be imported. The fact that he was the very first DLC character shows the level of priority he was given.

You're not wrong.

But among the characters created from scratch, new ones were obviously the priority, which I am sure will be the case next time as well. We don't know how easily Smash 4's fighters will port to Smash V, so I guess I just hope it's easy enough. Maybe everyone who made it in DLC already has their foot in the door, as far as work is concerned, in Smash V.

 

[BatDan]

Mewtwo wasn't left out due to "importance" he was left out because they had to recreate him from scratch because Melee data couldn't be imported. The fact that he was the very first DLC character shows the level of priority he was given.


Konami tho.

It's a shame, with Konami they had almost all the major Japanese publishers. Only missing Tecmo Koei I guess, and who would you even take from them? Kasumi? The other Ryu?

Klonoa is Namco dude

 

[Green Mamba]

I'm inclined to believe that everybody added through DLC is already on the Smash V cutting room floor. Many were low-priority characters and others are assumingly complicated contracts. Mewtwo wasn't important enough to make it into Brawl or Smash 4's launch roster. Will he really be important enough in Smash V?

What about Lucas? Dear, dear, Lucas...

I dunno, I think they'd keep around at least a couple of the DLC characters just so they don't come across as wiping the slate unnecessarily clean. Mewtwo's by far the most popular of the first party DLC characters so he could manage to stick around this time, though I have a feeling either him or Greninja will be cut. And Corrin I can see sticking around in favor of sweeping some of the older Fire Emblem characters out. Ike is sitting pretty dangerously close to the chopping block.

But Lucas and Roy I would be mightily impressed if either of them came back.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Only missing Tecmo Koei I guess, and who would you even take from them? Kasumi? The other Ryu?

Ryu Hayabusa is their biggest character by far and would be an awesome edition.

 

[Cerium]

Klonoa is Namco dude

Really? I don't know why I thought he was Konami.

Ryu Hayabusa is their biggest character by far and would be an awesome edition.

Would look weird on the CSS.

Ryu and Ryu.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm confident all third-party guests will return, unless another company pulls a Konami.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I dunno, I think they'd keep around at least a couple of the DLC characters just so they don't come across as wiping the slate unnecessarily clean. Mewtwo's by far the most popular of the first party DLC characters so he could manage to stick around this time, though I have a feeling either him or Greninja will be cut. And Corrin I can see sticking around in favor of sweeping some of the older Fire Emblem characters out. Ike is sitting pretty dangerously close to the chopping block.

But Lucas and Roy I would be mightily impressed if either of them came back.

It's pretty preposterous that we have a roster as big as we do. The increase over Brawl was substantial. I don't think many people expected such a huge augmentation of what, at the time, already felt like an excellently rounded cast.

Moving forward, I can't imagine how much bigger the roster might get. Which is what makes me nervous that many characters might get cut: the amount of work required to bring so many fighters back might be too big to really manage. Can you imagine having to adapt almost sixty fighters into your game before you can even start making new ones? Then having to adapt and balance seventy or eighty fighters? I know that's not at all how it works, but to simplify it: you would certainly have your work cut out for you.

"Ah, yes, we have finished laying the sixty-character foundation for our sequel. We are now officially at zero and can begin making new content."

 

[L Thammy]

I'm confident all third-party guests will return, unless another company pulls a Konami.

It would suck if Mega Man or Final Fantasy's creators had a tragic breakup with their companies

 

[R0ckman]

Pretty sure Toei doesn't own full rights either. The rights are also split up between Shueisha who published the manga, and Toriyama as the creator. And that's just in Japan, since licensing rights are split up between many groups outside Japan. It's why any anime/manga character is going to be a licensing nightmare for a worldwide game. Pretty sure Jump Stars Vs+ localization was mostly possible because most of those rights were centralized at VIZ in america for shonen jump properties, but when you get the entire world involved, the rights become way more dicey

Why do places like VIZ and stuff have enough rights to cause issues like this for western releases on games? Why don't they only have certain rights to these things like just for distribution of manga or anime or whatnot and locked out of games, making it so that only home base can make that determination?

I guess a better question is why aren't manga/characters with publishing companies in the west not run similar to how NoA is run, where they aren't REALLY in control but Japan is like the mother base?

 

[Aaronrules380]

Why do places like VIZ and stuff have enough rights to cause issues like this for western releases on games? Why don't the only have certain rights to these things like just for distribution of manga or anime or whatnot and locked out of games, making it so that only home base can make that determination?

I guess a better question is why aren't manga/characters with publishing companies in the west not run similar to how NoA is run, where they aren't REALLY in control but Japan is like the mother base?

I'm pretty sure that's basically what Viz is to shueisha, but the history for a lot of the other companies is pretty different

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Everyone who didn't vote in this guy:

Was wrong.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Rights being split and stuff.

 

[DecoReturns]

I dunno, I think they'd keep around at least a couple of the DLC characters just so they don't come across as wiping the slate unnecessarily clean. Mewtwo's by far the most popular of the first party DLC characters so he could manage to stick around this time, though I have a feeling either him or Greninja will be cut. And Corrin I can see sticking around in favor of sweeping some of the older Fire Emblem characters out. Ike is sitting pretty dangerously close to the chopping block.

But Lucas and Roy I would be mightily impressed if either of them came back.

I feel Ike is the safest, he's becoming the most popular of the Fire Emblem characters. Even japan is ranking him high, finally appreciating his games.

In fact he should've been the face of Fire Emblem in the west since both his game are the best in the series, but alas.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

WonderRed Ranks No#2 and I'm gonna be pissed

"Diplomacy has indeed failed"

 

[R0ckman]

I feel Ike is the safest, he's becoming the most popular of the Fire Emblem characters. Even japan is ranking him high, finally appreciating his games.

In fact he should've been the face of Fire Emblem in the west since both his game are the best in the series, but alas.

As a fan of Ike and liking how he plays I'm actually fine with him being axed, IF they are going this route with Smash with Fire Emblem characters it feels like he is kind of hanging on by the coat tails. I think Marth and Roy are kind of like Fox and Falco, but this huge dump of FE characters makes it feel like they have to rotate them out for each series.

 

[Cerium]

Roy should've been left out in favor of Wolf. I say that as a big Fire Emblem fan.

 

[DecoReturns]

As a fan of Ike and liking how he plays I'm actually fine with him being axed, IF they are going this route with Smash with Fire Emblem characters it feels like he is kind of hanging on by the coat tails. I think Marth and Roy are kind of like Fox and Falco, but this huge dump of FE characters makes it feel like they have to rotate them out for each series.

Roy isn't like that since he was cut twice and came back as DLC.
if your going to cut Fire Emblem characters cut Lucina, Roy, or Robin. they are terrible characters in their respected games.
Ike at least is a decent written character.

Roy should've been left out in favor of Wolf. I say that as a big Fire Emblem fan.

I love Roy, but seeing Corrin, its likely Sakurai's love for Fire Emblem lead him to add Roy instead of Wolf. Would've love to see Roy return since him and Lucas were my main.

 

[Monocle]

I honestly believe whoever voted Cena to be idiots.

They were born idiots.

Can't disagree. Offensively dumb idea IMO.

 

[Green Mamba]

I feel Ike is the safest, he's becoming the most popular of the Fire Emblem characters. Even japan is ranking him high, finally appreciating his games.

In fact he should've been the face of Fire Emblem in the west since both his game are the best in the series, but alas.

Honestly, I think a lot of his popularity growth stems from Smash Bros. and not the other way around, because his games certainly didn't light the world on fire. I think he comfortably sits with Sheik, Roy, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, etc. as characters who are more popular for Smash than for their actual origins, and getting to a roster this big these are the kinds of characters that are probably going to get closer looks. They're going to have to start looking at veterans and asking "Do we really need this character?" The only one of these types of characters that I think is 100% safe is Captain Falcon. After that, I'd be wary. Especially for an old character in series that even Sakurai thinks has too many characters.

 

[KingBroly]

If they revealed the Actual Top 5 or 10 in every continent, I can imagine a lot of outrage.

 

[Anth0ny]

I just want to know how many votes John Cena got.

 

[KingBroly]

I just want to know how many votes John Cena got.

You can't see them

 

[DecoReturns]

Honestly, I think a lot of his popularity growth stems from Smash Bros. and not the other way around, because his games certainly didn't light the world on fire. I think he comfortably sits with Sheik, Roy, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, etc. as characters who are more popular for Smash than for their actual origins, and getting to a roster this big these are the kinds of characters that are probably going to get closer looks. They're going to have to start looking at veterans and asking "Do we really need this character?" The only one of these types of characters that I think is 100% safe is Captain Falcon. After that, I'd be wary. Especially for an old character in series that even Sakurai thinks has too many characters.

All i'm saying if Fire Emblem needs cuts, do everyone but Marth or Ike. Lucina, Robin, and Roy are in my opinion poorly written characters. I've played all the US Fire Emblem games and these were some of the blandest characters with decent designs.

Obviously people don't care about how their written, but i would be mad if one of the best written Fire Emblem characters get cut in favor of these. Of course its up to Sakurai and i'm glad he kept Ike instead of Chrom

 

[Hylian7]

Only characters I could see getting cut realistically:

Falco
Dark Pit
Lucina

Rest I could see coming back, as long as none of the third parties pull a Konami.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Not a chance they ever cut Falco. Very little work to bring him back and he remains an incredibly popular Smash character

 

[Drago]

At this point I feel that any Melee character that hasn't been cut yet after two suceeding games is close to 100% safe, Ice Climbers being the obvious exception (and they would have been in anyway if 3DS could run them - I have no doubt they'll be back next game)

I suppose Falco is the most iffy out of that group but even then I can't realistically see him getting the axe. I also can't see them leaving the SF franchise with only one character.

 

[Draxal]

I feel Ike is the safest, he's becoming the most popular of the Fire Emblem characters. Even japan is ranking him high, finally appreciating his games.

In fact he should've been the face of Fire Emblem in the west since both his game are the best in the series, but alas.

No he's not, he only ranked first in a recent poll, but historically he's only ranked high because of Smash not because of appreciation for PoR/RD, Awakening outsold both PoR/RD combined in Japan. Marth is still the most popular historically with Lucina ranking really high.

There's a reason why #FE went for the Shadow Dragon and Awakening characters only.

And Seisen/Thracia >> Por/RD

Honestly, I think a lot of his popularity growth stems from Smash Bros. and not the other way around, because his games certainly didn't light the world on fire. I think he comfortably sits with Sheik, Roy, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, etc. as characters who are more popular for Smash than for their actual origins, and getting to a roster this big these are the kinds of characters that are probably going to get closer looks. They're going to have to start looking at veterans and asking "Do we really need this character?" The only one of these types of characters that I think is 100% safe is Captain Falcon. After that, I'd be wary. Especially for an old character in series that even Sakurai thinks has too many characters.

I think Ike's relatively safe, in that modern Int Systems is very proud of the Telius games, much so than they're prouder than the GBA games so the easiest cut would be Roy. Lucina's a weird situation in that she could be easily folded back into Marth, but she's a very popular character.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Would look weird on the CSS.

Ryu and Ryu.

Roy and Roy?

Honestly, I think a lot of his popularity growth stems from Smash Bros. and not the other way around, because his games certainly didn't light the world on fire. I think he comfortably sits with Sheik, Roy, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, etc. as characters who are more popular for Smash than for their actual origins, and getting to a roster this big these are the kinds of characters that are probably going to get closer looks. They're going to have to start looking at veterans and asking "Do we really need this character?" The only one of these types of characters that I think is 100% safe is Captain Falcon. After that, I'd be wary. Especially for an old character in series that even Sakurai thinks has too many characters.

I'd also argue Sheik is way too popular in the context of Smash to get the boot. Her appearance in Hyrule Warriors both in a new form and with a OoT skin kinda indicates to me Nintendo sees her as a (somewhat) important aspect of Zelda's character as well.

 

[Cerium]

Roy and Roy?

Roy is an alt though, the name isn't on the CSS when you look at it.

 

[DecoReturns]

No he's not, he only ranked first in a recent poll, but historically he's only ranked high because of Smash not because of appreciation for PoR/RD, Awakening outsold both PoR/RD combined in Japan. Marth is still the most popular historically with Lucina ranking really high.

There's a reason why #FE went for the Shadow Dragon and Awakening characters only.

And Seisen/Thracia >> Por/RD



I think Ike's relatively safe, in that modern Int Systems is very proud of the Telius games, much so than they're prouder than the GBA games so the easiest cut would be Roy. Lucina's a weird situation in that she could be easily folded back into Marth, but she's a very popular character.

What's #FE?
Also I dislike Thracia and I don't apologize for it. But please FE4 remake. I would offer Lucina as a sacrifice.

 

[Neoxon]

But they are likely expensive acquisitions whose inclusions are only justifiable by the fact that they command a premium price. Nintendo is probably paying licenses for these characters, or has some sort of profit-share contract, and I can't imagine characters like Cloud and Ryu would ever appear in a base game.

While this is all conjecture, I feel this is supported by how minimally these characters are actually represented. Street Fighter and Final Fantasy only come with two songs a piece, which seems to indicate the licensing fees for the music (a notorious hang-up in any industry, as writers and composers usually have control or claim to royalties whenever their music is used) were not a cost-effective inclusion for the $5.99 character packages.

I would love to be wrong.

Other than that, if characters like Mewtwo, Roy, and Lucas were not considered important enough to make it into the base game this time, they probably won't be next time either. And I feel it's unlikely that Nintendo would make a second series of DLC for Smash V that includes the same DLC characters from Smash 4.

Again, I would love to be wrong.

But you have to consider that every single third party company represented in Smash 4 has some kind of positive relationship with Nintendo. And while Square Enix is the most recent company to become buddy-buddy with Nintendo, they are amongst the first to throw their support behind the NX Platform. I wouldn't worry about any of the 6 third parties in Smash 4.......unless any of them go bankrupt or pull a Konami.

 

[Cerium]

Love Lucina, but wouldn't mind seeing her return to alt costume status.

Also trim Roy.

Marth, Ike, Robin, and Corrin is an excellent, diverse, and lean Fire Emblem lineup.

 

[Neoxon]

Love Lucina, but wouldn't mind seeing her return to alt costume status.

Also trim Roy.

Marth, Ike, Robin, and Corrin is an excellent, diverse, and lean Fire Emblem lineup.

The issue with that is that Sakurai considered doing the same with Dr. Mario but decided against it because he feared that fans of Dr. Mario would be pissed. It'd be either Lucina being playable or not in the game at all.

 

[DecoReturns]

Love Lucina, but wouldn't mind seeing her return to alt costume status.

Also trim Roy.

Marth, Ike, Robin, and Corrin is an excellent, diverse, and lean Fire Emblem lineup.

My only nitpictabout Corrin and Robin is that they are suppose to be avatar characters, my Robin looks and sounds nothing like smash. It's just bugs me, even tho their dialouge is the same in-game

The issue with that is that Sakurai considered doing the same with Dr. Mario but decided against it because he feared that fans of Dr. Mario would be pissed. It'd be either Lucina being playable or not in the game at all.

I'm sure no one would be pissed about Lucina since they are exactly the same.
It would be weird to see doc using fludd and shot fire balls

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The last thing anyone should be counting on with regards to the time frame Smash 5 will come out is a healthy state for Japanese third parties.

 

[HeroR]

My only nitpictabout Corrin and Robin is that they are suppose to be avatar characters, my Robin looks and sounds nothing like smash. It's just bugs me, even tho their dialouge is the same in-game

So? Villager is an avatar too and he probably doesn't look nothing like the villager people created in their games.

And, isn't it a little early to say he will or will not be cut. Things change in a few years, as we have seen with Snake.

 

[Neoxon]

The last thing anyone should be counting on with regards to the time frame Smash 5 will come out is a healthy state for Japanese third parties.

That's why I said "unless any of them go bankrupt or pull a Konami".

 

[DecoReturns]

So? Villager is an avatar too and he probably doesn't look nothing like the villager people created in their games.

And, isn't it a little early to say he will or will not be cut. Things change in a few years, as we have seen with Snake.

Which is why I said nitpick. It's more of me not liking avatar characters in fire emblem series.
I never played animal crossing and don't have a problem with it, but I did play awakening and it's pointless to have avatar since they are pre-written.

 

[Neoxon]

Honestly, I do believe that Snake would have returned if Konami didn't go to shit.