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HTC Vive Pre (Dev Kit 2) hands-on impressions

P

ps3ud0

Member
gcubed said:
The Vive seems like such an afterthought when it comes to VR conversations, but "seems" to have its shit together more than others. Is this mainly because of HTC?
Click to expand...
I think some people think its less accessible because the way its been demoed in a room - sounds counter intuitive but I guess they cant appreciate that it can do the standard out-of-the-box VR that OR and PSVR can do just as well.

Personally been far more interested in Vive/SteamVR more because as you said it seems Valve have got their shit together and really thinking how to progress the tech/software long term. They just arent great at peddling...

ps3ud0 8)
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Anyways, after CES they're going to start talking about content, starting with a Valve hosted public event, so hopefully that's will be of change of pace.
 
8

8-Bit Sunset

Banned
The Valve Content Showcase has to be it!
Where they are gonna unveil Source 2 and Ricochet 2!
xO0GaHQ.png
 
I

ichtyander

Member
There was an on stage Leap Motion demo showcasing something similar to this passthrough solution, showing a "ghostly" overlay of the infrared passthrough camera of the next dev version of Leap Motion. I'm guessing Vive's solution is something very similar, but maybe a bit more visible.

Fake edit:
Here's the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3e69sspVR0

It's basically the same thing they're using for showing your actual hands in VR using Leap Motion, but with extended range and usability.

leap_motion_7rwo32.gif


leap_motion_8rnpam.gif


https://youtu.be/nNktcqj9MW4?t=1346

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T52C4CbDWK4

It does actually look very Tron-like, because of the similarities between the monochromatic infrared camera and the black and white filming technique of the old Tron movie.

Ever since I saw that Leap Motion demo I thought it was a very elegant way of keeping various degrees of the real world around you for safety or comfort reasons. It will probably break immersion, but if you want to be aware of your cat, other people, objects, keyboard, beverages or whatever around you, there's potential here to make this approach very useful.
 
T

Turin Turambar

Member
ashecitism said:
MaximumPC interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPnhAWsF46I

towards the end HTC rep confirms integrated audio for CV
Click to expand...



So... isn't the Vive going a bit late to their own schedule?

They want to release the Vive in April. But they are releasing their second generation dev kits now (ok, I think they started one week ago). And now they say they still have to integrate audio for the final model.

I understand they need to have the finalized hardware a pair of months before the release date, to stock up, unless they plan to do a paper launch. So at the start of March/middle of February they need to have the finalized hardware and software. For the developers that's too just three months and a half to finale their games.
 
S

Skulduggery

Banned
ashecitism said:
MaximumPC interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPnhAWsF46I

towards the end HTC rep confirms integrated audio for CV
Click to expand...

What was important for me was confirmation that the camera is just a regular camera, no depth data. Final version will have a depth sensor, mark my words.
Turin Turambar said:
I understand they need to have the finalized hardware a pair of months before the release date, to stock up, unless they plan to do a paper launch. So at the start of March/middle of February they need to have the finalized hardware and software. For the developers that's too just three months and a half to finale their games.
Click to expand...
A) There's probably a 50/50 chance they'll make this deadline. Already pushed back once.
B) As far as the Devs are concerned, none of the retail changes should affect them. None of the changes they're making really add any new game features, they're more just improving the features and capabilities they already have.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Turin Turambar said:
So... isn't the Vive going a bit late to their own schedule?

They want to release the Vive in April. But they are releasing their second generation dev kits now (ok, I think they started one week ago). And now they say they still have to integrate audio for the final model.

I understand they need to have the finalized hardware a pair of months before the release date, to stock up, unless they plan to do a paper launch. So at the start of March/middle of February they need to have the finalized hardware and software. For the developers that's too just three months and a half to finale their games.
Click to expand...

Unless things really ramp up in the coming weeks, it's safe to say HTC/Valve aren't too concerned about the launch lineup. There will be tech demos and that's that. Notice how they're the only ones not talking about content so far. So this either changes considerably soon or not...
 
S

Skulduggery

Banned
Iced_Eagle said:
Why do you say that? Are you expecting them to add hand tracking or something?
Click to expand...

No, no. If you watch the Tom's hands on, he mentions that the tech is amazing, but the depth isn't quite right. The software is doing the best it can to approximate the distance/scale with just one wide angle lens, but coupled with an actual depth sensor, it would be perfectly accurate, and the new chaperone system would be perfect.

If you notice on the Vive DK1s, the front of the HMD has two holes. One we always knew was going to be for a camera, the other I believe is/was planned for a depth sensor.
 
T

Turin Turambar

Member
A not very positive one. Seems he had a faulty device?

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3zsa69/i_just_tried_the_ces_rift_cv1_demos/

...Second, a whole host of technical issues had me waiting another 15-20 minutes before I had a working demo. The first Vive I tried, the visuals were tilted. One reset and recalibration later and that was fixed, but now the motion controllers weren't connected or weren't tracking! Ew. Also it was blurry as I said above. So I waited some time for another demo room to open up. Luckily that one worked. It still had the blur of my first headset. The controllers again didn't work but a restart of the software fixed it once and for all.
Shooting my guns accurately was harder than it should have been due to the blur. One of the controllers had a bugged touchpad that would glitch the hell out if I lifted my finger off of it, which made the menu all jittery in tiltbrush. Keeping my finger on it fixed it, but it still shouldn't be happening.
Finally, the ergonomics of the Vive Pre were just not up to snuff. They're still using elastic bands, and the headset was heavier than the Rift. This allowed it to move around a little while on my face, even when the straps were relatively tight. Also due to the elastic, the padding didn't feel as "invisible" as on the Rift
Click to expand...

It actually reinforces my impression that they may have to delay a pair of months more the Vive.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
It's a HW product made with Valve's involvement. It's never going to be ready. Just look at Steam HW. People better prepare for a rough experience.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
B

Bsigg12

Member
ashecitism said:
It's a HW product made with Valve's involvement. It's never going to be ready. Just look at Steam HW. People better prepare for a rough experience.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just this production run of these new dev units? When I got to try the original Vive last year, everything worked really well.

Nzyme32 said:
I don't trust the r/Oculus subreddit for any impressions at this point. There is so much fanboyism and hype there, it's hard to tell who is genuine and who isn't. I'm having to stick with reporters for now.
Click to expand...

Well there was also the reporter who's demo with Ad1ft made them very uncomfortable because of some messed up controllers
 
D

Dineren

Banned
ashecitism said:
It's a HW product made with Valve's involvement. It's never going to be ready. Just look at Steam HW. People better prepare for a rough experience.
Click to expand...

I have to admit the Valve/HTC combo is the thing that makes me the most nervous about the Vive. VR technology is too cool for me to pass up though, so I'll be picking up every headset at launch.
 
Tarin02543

Tarin02543

Member
The Vive looks to be he most advanced and refined VR device so far. If I would be willing to spend 1000+ $ on VR it would definitely be the HTC Vive.
 
I

ichtyander

Member
ashecitism said:
Tested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2WmDszPe5M

You can see how Chaperona looks with the camera after 1:15
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, the new chaperon camera does look like a monochromatic/infrared camera with a software edge detection filter/shader on top of it, so nothing more sophisticated like 3D mapping etc. Near the end of the clip Norm also mentions certain discrepancies between the VR image and the camera passthrough, like the controllers not being aligned properly between the two, no depth correction etc. Still, it's something I feel all VR hardware manufacturers will implement eventually, and with greater precision, color passthrough and more advanced tech in the future, because even at this stage it's very useful for orientation and being aware of your surroundings, be it to see other people, your pet, glance at your keyboard or get a drink.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if, in time, people get used to keeping their approximate peripheral vision filled with passthrough/real world content, or having certain angles and directions automatically activate a passthrough viewing portal, kind of like how you open certain menus in Elite: Dangerous, where looking to a specific area to your left opens a menu, so you might have a "mode" where looking 45 degrees downward always shows you a passthrough area so you can glance at your keyboard etc. It would be invasive and immersion breaking to a point, but it's also immensely practical so I'm thinking people will accept the trade-off.

Here's some screengrabs of the new chaperon:

BImcre2.jpg


sml4VUt.jpg


04QdlkR.jpg


RVrOvJc.jpg


GUFeE7U.jpg


fqsHgz1.jpg


zaZxljF.jpg


5GVe00n.jpg
Click to expand...
 
P

Piggus

Member
Was going to go with the Rift eventually, but I like the Vive the more I see it. Will wait for reviews of the two after they're out.
 
S

SerratedX

Member
Played with the Vive and Comic Con last year (DK1) and the experience felt so much better to me then the Oculus Rift. It also helps that they give you an empty room to roam around in.

The Vive at that time was still amazing in telling you your boundaries and with the new cam on the headset, I see this being amazing as it can now map a room with furniture and items in it. I also can't wait to see what the devs do with the camera to create an AR/VR experience.
 
S

Skulduggery

Banned
Dark Matter said:
No, she tried Adr1ft on a Oculus Rift plus Xbox One controller.
Click to expand...

Two things in reference to that:

1)
_87502749_vive1.jpg

"Zoe's initial VR experiences at CES (With the new Vive) went without a hitch"
Click to expand...

2)
Nothing responded as I expected. I couldn't even get to the space ship hatch to get outside and start my mission. I started to feel very hot and very disorientated. I was tumbling around, bumping into walls and debris and no longer knew which way was up. My virtual space helmet visor was cracking.
Within about 30 seconds I wanted to rip the helmet off and run to the bathroom.
I asked to stop.
Adam was totally thrown.
"Let me just get you out of the ship…." he said, taking the control from my hands.
Click to expand...

Adam Orth is such a dick. I could not have a worse impression of this guy
 
W

wanderingprostheyltite

Member
Skulduggery said:
Two things in reference to that:

1)
_87502749_vive1.jpg



2)


Adam Orth is such a dick. I could not have a worse impression of this guy
Click to expand...

Huh, I'm guessing either perf was absolutely horrible when she was playing or she's super sensitive to motion sickness. Could also have to do with how motion is handled in game. Things like head bob would do that for sure. Or just the nature of the zero g traversal :p

Also how is Orth being a dick in this example? Or were you commenting on the guy generally?
 
W

WordAssassin

Member
"Virtual Reality without boundaries"

Except for the ones that pop up when you've moved too far out of the tiny square you have to stay in for it to work

;)
 
W

wanderingprostheyltite

Member
Here's the rest of that interaction with Orth, continued from above:

But it was too much - I had to remove the headset.
He looked genuinely crushed and I felt terrible.
"We've never had this reaction before," he said.
He started pressing buttons and his face lit up.
"The controller is configured wrong!" he said.
"No wonder you couldn't do it."

I'm not sure whether this was a polite ruse to save my dignity.
"I still don't think I feel very confident about continuing," I said sadly.
There was a long pause.
"I'm sorry…" I tried.
"Would you tell me about your inspiration for the game?"
He didn't respond.
I sensed my time was up. After some small talk we said a polite goodbye and Mr Orth did ask if I wanted to continue, but I think we both knew the moment had passed. And I was seriously worried about throwing up.
Click to expand...

Sounds like he was pretty bummed it locked up on her. If she was feeling some bad vestibular disconnect at that point no wonder she didn't want to continue, though if she communicated that to Adam he probably would have understood.
 
Aceofspades

Aceofspades

Banned
So they delayed Vive launch because they mounted a camera that sense objects in real world? no eye tracking?

I expected more tbh
 
H

hesido

Member
They've ditched the asymmetrical leds(?), now has symmetrical design.

edit: Oh, the old design was symmetrical too, just not vertically mirrored, but oblique. (Point symmetry)
 
D

Dark Matter

Neo Member
Skulduggery said:
Two things in reference to that:

1)
_87502749_vive1.jpg



2)


Adam Orth is such a dick. I could not have a worse impression of this guy
Click to expand...

Here: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35239815

You can see that both Vive and Rift have their pictures.

1) She tried the Everest demo with the Vive at first.

2) Here you can read how she introduces her experience with Adr1ft:

"Everest duly conquered, it was time to take a trip into outer space with a demo of another new game called Adr1ft.

The Rift VR headset applied, I was given an Xbox controller. Now, I'm familiar enough with them but not to the extent that they are like an extra hand - and of course with the headset on you can't actually see it."
Click to expand...

That said, I bet that many people will feel sick with this game even with a Vive or Oculus + touch. Free zero gravity movement in VR doesn't sound like a great idea to me.
 
F

fierrotlepou

Member
ichtyander said:
There was an on stage Leap Motion demo showcasing something similar to this passthrough solution, showing a "ghostly" overlay of the infrared passthrough camera of the next dev version of Leap Motion. I'm guessing Vive's solution is something very similar, but maybe a bit more visible.

Fake edit:
Here's the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3e69sspVR0

It's basically the same thing they're using for showing your actual hands in VR using Leap Motion, but with extended range and usability.

leap_motion_7rwo32.gif


leap_motion_8rnpam.gif


https://youtu.be/nNktcqj9MW4?t=1346

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T52C4CbDWK4

It does actually look very Tron-like, because of the similarities between the monochromatic infrared camera and the black and white filming technique of the old Tron movie.

Ever since I saw that Leap Motion demo I thought it was a very elegant way of keeping various degrees of the real world around you for safety or comfort reasons. It will probably break immersion, but if you want to be aware of your cat, other people, objects, keyboard, beverages or whatever around you, there's potential here to make this approach very useful.
Click to expand...

Wow, this looks amazing. Is this Leap Motion technology going to be in the HTC Vive?

If it can show your fingers individually and your hands, it'll be even better.

No time to look it up atm, so excuse my question.
 
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