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[Ixion]

it is incredibly disappointing to see id fall further and further away from its original core. idtech games used to push technological boundaries and always had mod tools:

Both of those tenets are still present, but are being handled in a new way.

iD is aiming for DOOM to be the best looking game at 60 FPS and 1080p, and it seems that will be the case. So it's still pushing boundaries, but differently. As for modding, SnapMap is going to be something pretty new and unique for what it's trying to do.

Giant BOOOO and beyond.

Actually, I might be wrong. Game Informer posted a new article today that discussed their Hell playthrough. Here's an excerpt:

I learn the only path I can take is through the dead titan's skull. I admire the gruesome details inside its mouth for a few seconds and then plummet numerous stories down its dusty skeleton to an underground catacomb.

This area is a throwback of sorts to the exploration puzzles from the original Doom games. I find myself navigating chambers of various sizes to track down colored skull keys. These areas are rich in branching paths that lead to secrets and various points of interest. Since it is hell, some of these secrets can kill you, such as an opening and closing obelisk that can flatten you if you don't time your movement correctly.

Sounds like Doom. Granted, it doesn't seem like the entire game will be an exploration puzzle, but those sections still seem to be included throughout the game. We'll have to see how often...

 

[Smurfman256]

I noticed while looking at the DOOM forums on the Bethesda website that the game finally DOES have an ESRB rating; as expected, it's an M rating, but the one thing that intrigued me was that there was no "Strong Language" descriptor on there which tells me that any dialog in the game will be fairly tame...at least compared to the insane amounts of gore and violence.

 

[tintin1029]

After reading the first Doom Novel recently, I want the game's story to be just that. At least I want Flynn Taggart to be the main character with his witty as fuck dialogue, kinda like BJ from TNO.

 

[Smurfman256]

After reading the first Doom Novel recently, I want the game's story to be just that. At least I want Flynn Taggart to be the main character with his witty as fuck dialogue, kinda like BJ from TNO.

Pretty damn sure that they're doing the Dark Souls style of story-telling (as in, letting the environment tell the story) since that's the story-telling method that works best for games.

 

[tintin1029]

Pretty damn sure that they're doing the Dark Souls style of story-telling (as in, letting the environment tell the story) since that's the story-telling method that works best for games.

That sounds interesting enough, especially if done well.

I would just adore Machine Games trying there take on Doom Guy with a DLC or whatever, considering how fantastic TNO's writing is. I know that's never happening though (And it's probably for the best)

 

[GAMEPROFF]

That sounds interesting enough, especially if done well.

Yeah, it has to be done well.

TNO was fine how it was.

 

[sn00zer]

Yeah, it has to be done well.

TNO was fine how it was.

TNO had too much reading for the type of game it was

 

[thehillissilent]

I want to see someone attempt to recreate Romero's E1M8b in SnapMap. I love this Brutal Doom/Insane Brutality version with better music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cb-Ne96TQY

I actually hope John Romero will do something in SnapMap.

 

[Plasma]

I want to see someone attempt to recreate Romero's E1M8b in SnapMap. I love this Brutal Doom/Insane Brutality version with better music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cb-Ne96TQY

I actually hope John Romero will do something in SnapMap.

Snap map doesn't look anywhere near good enough to pull off something like that. From what I've seen you're basically just dropping down prefab rooms. Real shame that id aren't really interested in the modding scene anymore.

 

[thehillissilent]

Snap map doesn't look anywhere near good enough to pull off something like that. From what I've seen you're basically just dropping down prefab rooms. Real shame that id aren't really interested in the modding scene anymore.

I know. I just want to see someone try to push SnapMap to it's limits. The lack of exterior environments really hurts it.

 

[Reese-015]

I want to see someone attempt to recreate Romero's E1M8b in SnapMap. I love this Brutal Doom/Insane Brutality version with better music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cb-Ne96TQY

I actually hope John Romero will do something in SnapMap.

Aaaaaand this pushed me over the edge to finally try out Brutal Doom. Shit looks so much fun.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I'm really hoping the whole SnapMap thing can do a lot more than we think. When it comes to building maps they've talked about what it can do somewhat vaguely. Well and we still don't know exactly what all the limitations are. I'm sure we'll see a bunch of classic DOOM 1/2 maps, hell and some Quake 1-3 maps I hope!
I really hope they announce the official date and a collector's sometime soon. Especially if they keep saying a spring release date is still happening.

 

[Bloodporne]

I'm really hoping the whole SnapMap thing can do a lot more than we think. When it comes to building maps they've talked about what it can do somewhat vaguely. Well and we still don't know exactly what all the limitations are. I'm sure we'll see a bunch of classic DOOM 1/2 maps, hell and some Quake 1-3 maps I hope!
I really hope they announce the official date and a collector's sometime soon. Especially if they keep saying a spring release date is still happening.

My feeling is that if it could do anything particularly interesting above and beyond what's been presented they would've made note of it already. The lack of exteriors doesn't really bode well for its flexibility and usefulness in my opinion. If it turns into essentially a LEGO set of prefabricated rooms, I can't imagine it having any staying power whatsoever.

 

[Skinpop]

are the melee execution "events" still in? that's a deal breaker for me.

 

[Ixion]

My feeling is that if it could do anything particularly interesting above and beyond what's been presented they would've made note of it already.

It seems SnapMap will provide a lot of creative freedom for game modes, since iD has really been talking that up. They've given examples like racing modes, horde modes, tower defense modes, demon battle modes, etc. But they haven't talked much about actual level design.

Game Informer will be putting out an article/video dedicated to SnapMap soon, so I'm hoping they talk more about level design freedom there.

 

[d3vnull]

are the melee execution "events" still in? that's a deal breaker for me.

Why would an optional feature be a deal breaker?

 

[NavyPharaoh]

TNO had too much reading for the type of game it was

Why can't a FPS have reading in it? It wasn't Witcher levels of reading but I thought it was well balanced. I could take a snack break and read lore instead of finding something else to do for 15 minutes.

 

[Bloodporne]

It seems SnapMap will provide a lot of creative freedom for game modes, since iD has really been talking that up. They've given examples like racing modes, horde modes, tower defense modes, demon battle modes, etc. But they haven't talked much about actual level design.

Game Informer will be putting out an article/video dedicated to SnapMap soon, so I'm hoping they talk more about level design freedom there.

After having followed the game way too much simply because of the attached Doom name, I need to actually give it a rest but will check out that article when it comes out. Their previous articles haven't done much (aside from providing new screenshots) but convince me further that this won't be the Doom game for me however.

 

[sn00zer]

Why can't a FPS have reading in it? It wasn't Witcher levels of reading but I thought it was well balanced. I could take a snack break and read lore instead of finding something else to do for 15 minutes.

Cinematic slower paced one sure, but TNO was pretty balls to the wall so reading was like hitting the pause button

 

[Neoleo2143]

Why would an optional feature be a deal breaker?

Aren't those one hit kills? So there's an incentive to use it and disrupt the pace. If you don't use them, it seems you would limit yourself arbitrarily. Of course this is just an observation. This is somewhat disappointing since swift melee combat either through fisticuffs (imagine if you could instaswitch off slugging an enemy into a shotgun kill) and chainsaw shenanigans could've added even more depth to the game.

 

[Dictator93]

Aren't those one hit kills? So there's an incentive to use it and disrupt the pace. If you don't use them, it seems you would limit yourself arbitrarily. Of course this is just an observation. This is somewhat disappointing since swift melee combat either through fisticuffs (imagine if you could instaswitch off slugging an enemy into a shotgun kill) and chainsaw shenanigans could've added even more depth to the game.

I dislike its current implementation as well if I understand it. Taking away player controller to play an animation in doom does not jive with my sensibilities of what the game would play best like. Why not allow you to kick and punch freely instead of locking into animations? (hitting Q or C or a mouse 3 or 4 for example).

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Cinematic slower paced one sure, but TNO was pretty balls to the wall so reading was like hitting the pause button

Its not like you were forced to read. The documents werent really necessary

 

[Skab]

Aren't those one hit kills? So there's an incentive to use it and disrupt the pace. If you don't use them, it seems you would limit yourself arbitrarily. Of course this is just an observation. This is somewhat disappointing since swift melee combat either through fisticuffs (imagine if you could instaswitch off slugging an enemy into a shotgun kill) and chainsaw shenanigans could've added even more depth to the game.

They're executions, not one hit kills.

 

[kinaesthete]

The visual design of Hell based on the art and descriptions is kind of like if it was a place you went to in Brutal Legend? I don't hate the idea despite it not lining up too well with what I'd expect based on previous Doom hells. Wikipedia's distillation of their Grand Vision is... really something

The robed summoner enemy they discuss in the new article made me realize how the Archvile probably won't be making a return. With the focus on tearing enemies to pieces and flinging them all over the place, resurrecting nearby dudes seems like an unfortunate technical problem. It would be cool as shit if ripped up enemy bits reverse-animated back into active threats but that seems unlikely.

 

[Metal-Geo]

The visual design of Hell based on the art and descriptions is kind of like if it was a place you went to in Brutal Legend? I don't hate the idea despite it not lining up too well with what I'd expect based on previous Doom hells. Wikipedia's distillation of their Grand Vision is... really something

The robed summoner enemy they discuss in the new article made me realize how the Archvile probably won't be making a return. With the focus on tearing enemies to pieces and flinging them all over the place, resurrecting nearby dudes seems like an unfortunate technical problem. It would be cool as shit if ripped up enemy bits reverse-animated back into active threats but that seems unlikely.

DOOM 3's Archvile simply spawned new enemies. What stops DOOM 4 from taking the same *cough*easy*cough* road?

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

wheres the part where they added a weapon wheel to multiplayer and removed classes...

 

[kinaesthete]

DOOM 3's Archvile simply spawned new enemies. What stops DOOM 4 from taking the same *cough*easy*cough* road?

Sounds like that's what they're doing, except the summoner enemy doesn't sound like it has any attack abilities, just summon and teleport. The Archvile might just be split off into a separate enemy that only does flame columns? Seems like a waste of one of the scariest enemies in the original to not have attack and "summon" abilities.

 

[NBtoaster]

Resurrection seems difficult to pull off when bodies can ragdoll and explode into chunks. It couldn't happen in Doom 3 because bodies disappeared and the environments werent really big enough to have multiple enemies and an Archvile running among them.

 

[Dictator93]

Resurrection seems difficult to pull off when bodies can ragdoll and explode into chunks.

There is nothing preventing the game from remembering where a monster was killed and just having a cool "materialise muscle, bone etc....flesh" geometry animatinon play and then a monster burst out of it covered in blood. You do not need a body.

In fact, that sounds like a fucking awesome resurrection and the game needs it.

 

[Hellgardia]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...-new-doom-breaks-the-modern-shooter-mold.aspx

 

[Dictator93]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...-new-doom-breaks-the-modern-shooter-mold.aspx

Don't get me wrong, I am excited for doom. But them trying to pass off awkward modernising and gameplay updates for being better and "doom-like"... eh. The weapon wheel is an obvious crutch for certain users, hitting 1-0 or the scroll wheel are way quicker.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Don't get me wrong, I am excited for doom. But them trying to pass off awkward modernising and gameplay updates for being better and "doom-like"... eh. The weapon wheel is an obvious crutch for certain users, hitting 1-0 or the scroll wheel are way quicker.

Agreed. Nothing is faster than mwheeling or just pressing 1-0. I'm really anxious to get information about a date or collector's edition. I'm hoping that's done soon. As much as I'm enjoying these articles, majority of them just sound like duplicates of each other. Well, and the videos just keep showcasing E3 footage. Soooo, I'm ready for more new and exciting information regardless.

 

[Randdalf]

People wanting straight up mod tools have no idea how complicated, proprietary, and distributed the tools are for modern AAA games. The mod tools of the past were just the tools used by the devs to make the game, but nowadays it would take a significant development effort to repackage those tools for community use. I think SnapMap is a nice compromise.

 

[Hellgardia]

They will probably have some news about the Beta soon i would believe. Since rumors put the launch around end of Spring this year, they would have 5 months until launch (if one is to believe they will launch it by June ofc...)

 

[MiguelItUp]

They will probably have some news about the Beta soon i would believe. Since rumors put the launch around end of Spring this year, they would have 5 months until launch (if one is to believe they will launch it by June ofc...)

Yeah, honestly I figured the beta news and release date would both be announced fairly soon. Especially since the latest articles still has them saying that a spring 2016 release date is still happening. I just figured that with it being DOOM and all that we would've heard something by now. Here's to hoping the info is dropped by February!

 

[thehillissilent]

People wanting straight up mod tools have no idea how complicated, proprietary, and distributed the tools are for modern AAA games. The mod tools of the past were just the tools used by the devs to make the game, but nowadays it would take a significant development effort to repackage those tools for community use. I think SnapMap is a nice compromise.

I wouldn't call it a nice compromise. I think modifying the game logic to include multiple game types if pretty cool, but the lack of exterior environments really sucks. We will never be able to recreate 1:1 recreations of classic doom maps without exterior environments. Not being able to import character models, objects, and textures suck even more. It may be okay for console gamers, but it really does suck for pc gamers.

IDTech5 modding tools for RAGE was a huge hassle mainly due to megatextures so that resulted in a pretty much dead mod scene. We don't know enough information about IDTech6 to see if this issue is still the case. The main difference from IdTech5 that is noticeable is the addition of PBR lighting.

 

[Dictator93]

I wouldn't call it a nice compromise. I think modifying the game logic to include multiple game types if pretty cool, but the lack of exterior environments really sucks. We will never be able to recreate 1:1 recreations of classic doom maps without exterior environments. Not being able to import character models, objects, and textures suck even more. It may be okay for console gamers, but it really does suck for pc gamers.

IDTech5 modding tools for RAGE was a huge hassle mainly due to megatextures so that resulted in a pretty much dead mod scene. We don't know enough information about IDTech6 to see if this issue is still the case. The main difference from IdTech5 that is noticeable is the addition of PBR lighting.

I am pretty sure they dropped megatextures. The renderer is completely different (re-written since after quakecon 2014).

Originally Posted by VentureBeat

GamesBeat: Was John Carmack any part of this engine, or any more than previous engines?

Hines: Truthfully, yes. John was at id so long that his work is in there. But a lot of this was born when he left. The tech team reevaluated—what are we building on? What are we using? Does this help us making the best games faster? Does it give our developers tools? Are we in the business of making technology or making games? A lot of what’s in id Tech 6 is a shift toward an engine that allows for more flexibility, with an eye toward the games.

GamesBeat: Was it just the levels or my imagination? It seems a lot lighter.

Hines: A lot more lighting, a lot more stuff that we didn’t—megatextures doesn’t allow for dynamic lighting. That’s the opposite of how megatextures work. It’s all baked-in stuff. Part of id Tech 6 is allowing for dynamic lighting, smoke and particle effects, a lot of stuff that just wasn’t part of the picture in previous versions.

 

[dr_rus]

I am pretty sure they dropped megatextures. The renderer is completely different (re-written since after quakecon 2014).

They've likely dropped megatextures in the same sense as they've dropped shaders of Q3A in favor of h/w pixel shaders. In other words - they didn't drop anything, they've improved the tech.

 

[Dictator93]

They've likely dropped megatextures in the same sense as they've dropped shaders of Q3A in favor of h/w pixel shaders. In other words - they didn't drop anything, they've improved the tech.

You really think it is using the same massive megatexture and artist stamping like before?
Or rather, just virtual texturing (which IMO, is soo much more reasonable than the idtech5 megature stuff)?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Trying to spin the weapon wheel thing as some new modern Doom invention and not another concession was funny to hear.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Some of the coolest parts of Doom levels was the brief interludes you got outside, staring at the Martian skyscape. Snapmap will definitely be poorer for its exclusion.

 

[thehillissilent]

Some of the coolest parts of Doom levels was the brief interludes you got outside, staring at the Martian skyscape. Snapmap will definitely be poorer for its exclusion.

Trying to spin the weapon wheel thing as some new modern Doom invention and not another concession was funny to hear.

It's marketing to console players basically, which will be the majority of the player base sadly. The PC version seems to be afterthought which is really a shame because the PC modding community for doom is really strong and still delivers the goods after 2 decades. Without proper modding tools, the pc version will most likely not have long legs.

 

[dr_rus]

You really think it is using the same massive megatexture and artist stamping like before?
Or rather, just virtual texturing (which IMO, is soo much more reasonable than the idtech5 megature stuff)?

I don't think that they're using the same environment design method if that's what you're asking because that was quite limiting from what I've been able to gather. But fundamentally h/w VTs are the same as Tech5's megatextures, just done in GPU and not by the engine. I'm pretty sure that they'll use them in some way.

 

[kinaesthete]

idTech 6 is 100% using virtual texturing. I don't know what the limitations are but it's obviously some kind of improvement over whatever was in Rage, otherwise Snapmap wouldn't work at all or have zero lighting. I don't know if the major bottleneck in the Rage level pipeline was baking textures or baking lighting (or were they the same thing?), but at least some of that isn't necessary for Doom. The toolset id using for Doom is the same or similar to Rage, according to possibly outdated information from Carmack: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/610469228613881856

 

[Ixion]

Don't get me wrong, I am excited for doom. But them trying to pass off awkward modernising and gameplay updates for being better and "doom-like"... eh. The weapon wheel is an obvious crutch for certain users, hitting 1-0 or the scroll wheel are way quicker.

Trying to spin the weapon wheel thing as some new modern Doom invention and not another concession was funny to hear.

There's been no confirmation that the PC version won't allow you to use the number keys for selecting weapons. All these videos and previews have used controllers.

With that said, their weapon wheel implementation (which allows for quick selecting) sounds perfect for console users.

 

[Smurfman256]

was watching the Game Informer Test Chamber on John Romero's E1M8 wad and they said something interesting about their playtime with the new DOOM. They said (paraphrasing) "yeah, the movement speed isn't as fast, but the pace of the combat is a lot faster." What this tells me is that, since they realized that it wasn't feasible to do DOOM/II 57MPH running speed and have it playable on consoles, the fix for that is that they cranked the combat pacing up to 11.

 

[deriks]

So the next update will be today... Where is it, goddammit?

 

[Smurfman256]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...0/the-explosive-modified-arsenal-of-doom.aspx GUUUUNS! WE GETS TO SEE GUUUUNS!

 

[Maikrobi]

new screens and video? found them on that site's doom article.

Translation: Doom at pcgames.de in Googles english

 

[Shuggananas]

Not digging the overly complicated gun designs