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[Allard]

what a shitshow, i would lose my mind if i had a child that got sick because a public official assured me drinking the water was fine

This is the one of the worst part of all this, its not even the elected officials who are doing this but the emergency managers who literally stripped the democractically elected officials of any say or power due to a law passed in congress given them the power to do so (And who ultimately caused this whole fucking mess). I am still trying to figure out why that hasn't been sent to the state supreme court yet, it feels like is violates a basic tenant of democracy the way its enforced now. Its literally unaccountable martial law dictated by the governors office without needing to declare a condition to when it should end.

 

[Frozenprince]

I'v gotten lead poisoning from crappy piping in a small town, this shit is no joke. Lost all my fingernails and spent a week in bed drinking bottled water and doing nothing else. Could have died had it been a higher concentration.

Doesn't matter if it's Flint and they have no money, they need to do something to fix it.

 

[internetwolf]

I stopped drinking tap water years ago. Not taking any chances.

 

[Bigboss242]

Slowly, corrupt and frighteningly un-empathetic politicians turn the US into the third world city by city. Like, how does anyone who allows this or knows the people allowing this get any sort of solace beyond just being monsters fine with poisoning the people they work for?

Thats why people need to be jailed or like you said one city at a time will be turned into the third world and then it will be too late to do anything.

 

[Frozenprince]

I stopped drinking tap water years ago. Not taking any chances.

Gotta get a filter, things are cheap and save you tons on bottled water.

 

[WedgeX]

Was contemplating making a new thread about this consider over 8,657 children have been affected by the lead poisoning within the water.

You definitely should.

Snyder was trying to deflect blame today.

After the comments from Clinton, who said Snyder didn’t care about the kids in Flint, and Sanders saying Snyder should resign, the governor's twitter account said: “Political statements and finger pointing from political candidates only distract from solving the Flint water crisis.”

Also, Snyder's request for almost 100 million dollars from the federal government to clean up what he wrought was turned down because the disaster was man-made. I'm sure Snyder will try to use this as a talking point in his state of the state address tonight. Despite having caused all this.

President Obama has declared a state of emergency in response to the water crisis in Flint, Mich., where thousands of residents have been exposed to toxic amounts of lead.
The president’s action on Saturday authorizes the Federal Emergency Management Agency to “coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency” in Genesee County. FEMA can provide up to $5 million in federal aid to help provide water, filters, and other items for up to 90 days to residents whose water has been contaminated since the city switched water supplies in a cost-cutting move in 2014.
The declaration was requested on Thursday by Gov. Rick Snyder, a Republican, who had also sought a major disaster declaration and asked for nearly $96 million to be expedited for relief efforts. A disaster declaration would have freed up more federal aid, but Flint’s problem did not qualify because it was a man-made disaster.

 

[Mugsy]

Gotta get a filter, things are cheap and save you tons on bottled water.

I may be wrong, but aren't filters supposed to make the water taste better but not necessarily safer?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I may be wrong, but aren't filters supposed to make the water taste better but not necessarily safer?

Those I'm familiar with (the ones I take backpacking) make water safer by removing parasites and bacteria. Not quite sure if they remove lead though.

 

[Palette Swap]

You definitely should.

Snyder was trying to deflect blame today.



Also, Snyder's request for almost 100 million dollars from the federal government to clean up what he wrought was turned down because the disaster was man-made. I'm sure Snyder will try to use this as a talking point in his state of the state address tonight. Despite having caused all this.

That small government.

 

[Frozenprince]

I may be wrong, but aren't filters supposed to make the water taste better but not necessarily safer?

Depends on what you get, brita filters and such aren't removing Fluoride, but you can get filters that do. Brita filters and derivatives do filter out harmful bacteria and parasites, though. The tap water in Flint has E Coli in it that would be filtered out, for example.

Not that it'd make it drinkable, just less likely to kill you at that level of severity.

 

[Particle Physicist]

what a shitshow, i would lose my mind if i had a child that got sick because a public official assured me drinking the water was fine

The problem with Lead poisoning is that the effects are more chronic/long term rather than acute illness.. It is pretty fucked up what is happening there.

 

[Frozenprince]

The problem with Lead poisoning is that the effects are more chronic/long term rather than acute illness.. It is pretty fucked up what is happening there.

A lot of these kids are going to have long term mental disabilities now.

 

[sechsterangriff]

I may be wrong, but aren't filters supposed to make the water taste better but not necessarily safer?

You are wrong. But there are various tiers in filtering, from just removing particles in suspension to killing bacteria and/or other microbes. What is happening in Flint can not be resolved with most common filtering solutions though. The whole city's plumbing itself is also contaminating the water, and removing that acid, lead and other contaminants is a completely different game. Most common filtering solutions aren't meant for water gone this bad...

 

[ElectricThunder]

I'll be amazed if the people don't ultimately march and/or straight up riot directly at the governor's place---this is the most insidious case of intentional mismanagement since at least Katrina if not other more contemporary debacles.

I mean, we're talking serious and lethal consequences on innocent people here!

 

[internetwolf]

Gotta get a filter, things are cheap and save you tons on bottled water.

Yup that's what I do.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I'll be amazed if the people don't ultimately march and/or straight up riot directly at the governor's place---this is the most insidious case of intentional mismanagement since at least Katrina if not other more contemporary debacles.

I mean, we're talking serious and lethal consequences on innocent people here!

Sadly even in the state of Michigan this isn't exactly making the headlines it should. Or at least it hasn't been. Maybe things will change now. Most people I know are unfamiliar with the whole thing even though it's taking place less than an hour away.

 

[ivysaur12]

What a disaster. Snyder should step down once this is (finally) fixed.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

I voted to re-elect Synder, I'm sorry. He needs to step down.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

What a disaster. Snyder should step down once this is (finally) fixed.

Yes, he should step down from office and then step into a prison cell.

 

[gdt]

Was contemplating making a new thread about this consider over 8,657 children have been affected by the lead poisoning within the water.

Wut

 

[DonasaurusRex]

I voted to re-elect Synder, I'm sorry. He needs to step down.

and its that simple , he needs to step down and a lot of residents of Genesee County need to sue since they tried to pass this off as safe with a straight face. Accountability no political spin nothing but the people who lied have to pay the price and send a message.

Same thing needs to happen with the LA methane leak , and the nuclear waste fire and leakage in STL

 

[psylah]

That protest sign is fukkin sikk tho

 

[hydragonwarrior]

and its that simple , he needs to step down and a lot of residents of Genesee County need to sue since they tried to pass this off as safe with a straight face. Accountability no political spin nothing but the people who lied have to pay the price and send a message.

Same thing needs to happen with the LA methane leak , and the nuclear waste fire and leakage in STL

Sue his ass and any of the associates that tried to put this issue aside (in addition to those who caused the lead issue in the first place) once he's out of office. Suing him simply means suing the city -which is like suing yourself at this point.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

and its that simple , he needs to step down and a lot of residents of Genesee County need to sue since they tried to pass this off as safe with a straight face. Accountability no political spin nothing but the people who lied have to pay the price and send a message.

Same thing needs to happen with the LA methane leak , and the nuclear waste fire and leakage in STL

It's not even that they passed it off as safe, Snyder and the EM straight up ignored multiple warning signs that this would have terrible consequences. That crosses the threshold from incompetence to straight up malice.

 

[whytemyke]

People haven't yet started to really connect the dots that an entire GENERATION of children in a semi-large American industrial town will now grow up with, at best, learning disabilities.

The schools in Flint are already struggling but they have absolutely no way to prepare themselves for an influx of 10,000 handicapped and special needs students that will flood the system over the next 10 years or so.

This is a man-made disaster. I am one of the few that thinks Snyder wasn't necessarily willfully negligent in this whole thing, but he had plenty of opportunity to act after this was all brought to his attention and he continued to defer to the "studies that say the water is safe to drink."

Oops.


EDIT: Also, forgot to mention, the city sent out 1800 delinquent notices to residents who have been behind on their water payments last week: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/14/flint-water-shutoffs/78828276/

 

[Allard]

What a disaster. Snyder should step down once this is (finally) fixed.

No he should step down now because this crisis is likely not going to get fixed properly for years. The pipes are corroded which is causing the lead leak. You can't just hook up to a new clean water supply, you also have to remove and replace the corrosive pipes. He has been downplaying it for months, attacking people who have criticized him, when it became obvious of the problem he kept dragging his feet helping the citizens get basic humane needs, and still refused to call it an emergency situation which would have activated certain functions of state and federal aid for this city. He and his whole battalion of managers are the problem and should be kicked out asap, imo he will only make things worse.

 

[Sir Abacus]

Next time someone says government should be run like a business point them to Flint and then tell them to get fucked.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

People haven't yet started to really connect the dots that an entire GENERATION of children in a semi-large American industrial town will now grow up with, at best, learning disabilities.

The schools in Flint are already struggling but they have absolutely no way to prepare themselves for an influx of 10,000 handicapped and special needs students that will flood the system over the next 10 years or so.

This is a man-made disaster. I am one of the few that thinks Snyder wasn't necessarily willfully negligent in this whole thing, but he had plenty of opportunity to act after this was all brought to his attention and he continued to defer to the "studies that say the water is safe to drink."

Oops.

yes whatever scientists who clearly took a money hats and did a "study" need to be jailed too for taking part in this scheme. Maybe have them drink the water they say is so safe.

 

[N.Domixis]

Cant believe this is even allowed to happen.

 

[RustyNails]

As someone who has cursory understanding of the situation, did Snyder administration roll back regulations and inspections under the guise of "cutting spending", leading to this disaster?

 

[Viewt]

People haven't yet started to really connect the dots that an entire GENERATION of children in a semi-large American industrial town will now grow up with, at best, learning disabilities.

The schools in Flint are already struggling but they have absolutely no way to prepare themselves for an influx of 10,000 handicapped and special needs students that will flood the system over the next 10 years or so.

This is a man-made disaster. I am one of the few that thinks Snyder wasn't necessarily willfully negligent in this whole thing, but he had plenty of opportunity to act after this was all brought to his attention and he continued to defer to the "studies that say the water is safe to drink."

Oops.

Yeah, I used to be roommates with an environmental safety engineer (his actual title was something really jargon-heavy that I can't remember), and he once broke down just how harmful lead is. Like, it's not just going to make you sick. It will cause mental damage in a very serious way, not just in terms of learning disabilities, but in actually making kids dumber and more aggressive. So even if a lot of kids don't get a diagnosed mental illness, they're going to be worse people, straight up.

Our getting serious about lead poisoning and limiting its exposure is as much responsible for the U.S.'s decrease in violent crime as anything else.

 

[adj_noun]

Maybe have them drink the water they say is so safe.

Whenever they do the movie about this, you know that's how it's gonna end.

Will YOU drink this water you signed off on?

*brown sludge water jostled ominously*

 

[Sir Abacus]

Yeah, I used to be roommates with an environmental safety engineer (his actual title was something really jargon-heavy that I can't remember), and he once broke down just how harmful lead is. Like, it's not just going to make you sick. It will cause mental damage in a very serious way, not just in terms of learning disabilities, but in actually making kids dumber and more aggressive. So even if a lot of kids don't get a diagnosed mental illness, they're going to be worse people, straight up.

Our getting serious about lead poisoning and limiting its exposure is as much responsible for the U.S.'s decrease in violent crime as anything else.

Taking the lead out of fuel was the best thing we could have ever done.

 

[Machine]

As someone born and raised in the Flint area, I've been following this since the beginning. We've known about this issue locally for quite a while and it's only recently gained national media attention. The rush to blame it on the Michigan governor or Michigan Republicans in general is pretty misguided. This issue has its roots in local politics in Flint and to a lesser extent Detroit. Both cities are solidly Democrat. Everybody is to blame, not just one party or the other. This has some good background for those interested: http://gregbranchwords.com/2016/01/17/the-real-tragedy-in-flint/

 

[elrechazado]

As someone born and raised in the Flint area, I've been following this since the beginning. We've known about this issue locally for quite a while and it's only recently gained national media attention. The rush to blame it on the Michigan governor or Michigan Republicans in general is pretty misguided. This issue has its roots in local politics in Flint and to a lesser extent Detroit. Both cities are solidly Democrat. Everybody is to blame, not just one party or the other. This has some good background for those interested: http://gregbranchwords.com/2016/01/17/the-real-tragedy-in-flint/

Federal EPA was aware for years as well.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

As someone born and raised in the Flint area, I've been following this since the beginning. We've known about this issue locally for quite a while and it's only recently gained national media attention. The rush to blame it on the Michigan governor or Michigan Republicans in general is pretty misguided. This issue has its roots in local politics in Flint and to a lesser extent Detroit. Both cities are solidly Democrat. Everybody is to blame, not just one party or the other. This has some good background for those interested: http://gregbranchwords.com/2016/01/17/the-real-tragedy-in-flint/

it's detroits fault? yeah that makes sense, the article goes from stating facts to trying to state motive mid way and loses credibility. Detroit probably did an "F-U" to Flint...bitch please if you cancel service then its over. Flint should've built the new line then cancelled any existing service they had. What a fucking stretch. He's not wrong about democrats being involved but he's clearly a Repub apologist that cannot deal with his side of the political spectrum being just as dirty. Suddenly its Detroits fault that Flint didn't know they needed water more than money? You don't say? Talks broke down? motherfucker you need WATER period... even at an inflated price, its for what 18-24 months then you are in the clear.

 

[WedgeX]

As someone who has cursory understanding of the situation, did Snyder administration roll back regulations and inspections under the guise of "cutting spending", leading to this disaster?

Snyder appointed an Emergency Managers to Flint who made the decision to take water from the Flint River after Detroit's water system raised rates before Flint was connected to Karegnondi Water Authority. This decision brought bad water into the city and corroded the city's already old pipes. So even when clean Detroit water came back through particles from the pipes previously corroded by Flint River water started coming with it.

Of course, the emergency managers tried to diffuse blame to the city council...which of course is false.

Flint Mayor Dayne Walling said Tuesday that the vote to become a partner in the KWA, a new regional water authority, should not be confused with a vote to use the Flint River as a temporary source of drinking water — a vote that never happened.

In contrast to using the river, the city also could have negotiated a short-term contract to continue buying water from DWSD, for example.

"No resolution brought before myself or the City Council by any emergency manager (made) the Flint River the temporary source," Walling said.

Kurtz signed an order March 29, 2013, for Flint to eventually purchase water from the KWA pipeline after it was finished, but that order says nothing about the city's use of the river.

In June 2013, Kurtz signed another order — this one to enter into a contract with Lockwood, Andrews & Newnam Inc. for professional engineering services to put the Flint water treatment plant into operation "using the Flint River as a primary drinking water source for approximately two years and then converting to KWA delivered lake water when available. ..."

In September 2013, a new emergency manager — Michael Brown — also approved an order for a contract among Flint, Genesee County and the KWA.

Flint began using the Flint River in late April 2014.

And then there are elements of his administration and the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality that ignored the crisis, and consequences of the Emergency Managers actions, as far back as July.

When Gov. Rick Snyder's chief of staff e-mailed the state health department about the brewing water crisis in Flint last July, that's what the state department of health told him, according to e-mails obtained by Virginia Tech University researcher Marc Edwards under the state Freedom of Information Act.

But the analysis of children's blood-lead levels the health department relied on to ease chief of staff Dennis Muchmore's fears was just one of two performed after his e-mail. Another analysis, done by a health department epidemiologist, showed the reverse: "There appears to be a higher proportion of first-time (elevated blood-lead levels)," the epidemiologist wrote, in a report also obtained by Edwards. "... Even compared to the previous three years, the proportion ... is highest in summer ... positive results for elevated blood-lead levels were higher than usual for children under age 16 living in the City of Flint during the months of July, August and September 2014."

Worse, e-mails sent around the same time show DCH staffers expressing concern that the analysis shared with Muchmore, the one that showed everything was fine, was problematic. The early childhood health manager who oversaw the analysis wasn't the right person to order or complete such work, one DCH staffer suggested, and a "fact sheet" she and her team had prepared needed "caveats." One staffer suggested that the epidemiologist should be granted time to "really" analyze the data.

Never mind that Snyder and Michigan Republicans cut the Department of Environmental Quality's budget by 15% in the very recent past and cut 3.4 million dollars from their budget just last year.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

It's amazing to me that fundamental health and hygiene related to clean drinking water for tens of thousands of residents in Flint is undermined over a few (12?) million dollars, yet cities easily secure and throw billions of dollars at owners of NFL football franchises to build palatial stadiums to entertain mostly well-to-do residents (see recent L.A. Rams thread). What's the fuck is happening in the U.S.? When will this hollowing out of the standard of living for working and middle class Americans end? Trending towards oligarchy indeed.

 

[ElectricThunder]

Michael Moore is going in hard on this disaster---pretty much derailing his entire movie premiere tour stretch as this is just blowing his damn mind that such a situation is befalling his hometown after all the shit for all these years now.

 

[gdt]

That such a large group of kids has lead poisoning is.....it's fucking INSANE. What a failure of all levels of government.

 

[DragonSworne]

So, when can we expect federal criminal charges against Rick Snyder and others?

 

[Magwik]

Snyder appointed an Emergency Managers to Flint who made the decision to take water from the Flint River after Detroit's water system raised rates before Flint was connected to Karegnondi Water Authority. This decision brought bad water into the city and corroded the city's already old pipes. So even when clean Detroit water came back through particles from the pipes previously corroded by Flint River water started coming with it.

Of course, the emergency managers tried to diffuse blame to the city council...which of course is false.



And then there are elements of his administration and the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality that ignored the crisis, and consequences of the Emergency Managers actions, as far back as July.



Never mind that Snyder and Michigan Republicans cut the Department of Environmental Quality's budget by 15% in the very recent past and cut 3.4 million dollars from their budget just last year.

This whole thing is such a cluster fuck. Fucking depressing. Snyder is the worst thing to happen to this state in a long time.

 

[kess]

I dunno, Snyder won't be able to run away from this because his power grab partly deputized the city government. That engineering firm (and any political connections) should be under a fucking microscope.

Oh yeah, soluble lead looks like this -- good luck finding that with the naked eye.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You definitely should.

Snyder was trying to deflect blame today.



Also, Snyder's request for almost 100 million dollars from the federal government to clean up what he wrought was turned down because the disaster was man-made. I'm sure Snyder will try to use this as a talking point in his state of the state address tonight. Despite having caused all this.

I couldn't help but laugh at this. Totally inappropriate I know, but this a textbook example of why you shouldn't have people who handwave empirical evidence in charge of environmental matters. Electing Ted Cruz would put this on a nationwide scale.

Also, Simpsonsdidit.

So, when can we expect federal criminal charges against Rick Snyder and others?

Throwing a governor in jail for being criminally stupid is a precedent that no one in Washington wants though. Especially with some of the imminent environmental changes that we've been warned about.

 

[e_i]

Yep, there's now Flint water truthers.

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

Yep, there's now Flint water truthers.

I'm rich and haven't even been drinking the water, but I live kinda close and MY lead levels aren't elevated."

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I live and work for schools about an hour away from Flint. We're collecting bottled water and funds to send to the Flint school district to be passed out to students and lower income families. There's also some some charities and similar organizations our superintendent presented us with in case we want to donate more. I figure I may as well post here in case anyone wants to help.

The Flint Child Health & Development Fund – Hurley Children’s Hospital, Mott Children’s Health Center, Flint Health Coalition, and the United Way of Genesee County have joined to support Flint children with the aim of bettering health outcomes for those affected by the contaminated water.

Flint Community Schools – Bilal Tawwab, Superintendent of Flint Public Schools required students to bring bottled water to drink and used bottled water to cook meals. To coordinate bottled water donations, call 810-760-1310. To donate money, you can call the school district’s finance office at 810-767-6030.

Catholic Charities of Genesee and Shiawassee Counties - The Catholic Charities is collecting donations at its Center for Hope Community Closet, located at 517 E. Fifth Ave. in Flint. Donations can include gallons of water, water filter and replacement kits, as well as cash or checks. All donations will be accepted at this location on Monday through Friday from 9:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. To donate money, mail a check to 901 Chippewa St., Flint, MI 48503 with "water relief" mentioned on the memo line of the donation.

 

[AlphaDump]

The declaration was requested on Thursday by Gov. Rick Snyder, a Republican, who had also sought a major disaster declaration and asked for nearly $96 million to be expedited for relief efforts. A disaster declaration would have freed up more federal aid, but Flint’s problem did not qualify because it was a man-made disaster.

Suddenly the GOP's defiant strawman around man-made climate change makes sense. Your corporate overlords, everyone.

Unreal and such a concrete example of cutting the nose to spite the face. And then asking for $96 million. Holy fuck man.... This is criminal and people need to go to jail.

 

[mclem]

Michael Moore covered Flint and its problem in Bowling for Columbine. What a shit place. Fuuuuckkk.

Roger and Me, wasn't it? Or was it also in BfC?

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]