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Far Cry: Primal & Rise of the Tomb Raider Will Be Protected By Denuvo Anti-Tamper
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
NDP_Mulcair
Banned
Just Cause 3 for PC is two months old and it's still impossible for pirates to steal it.
Normally PC games are fully piratable and cracked open long before now.
Denuvo is really working as a short-term solution to piracy and I'm really glad to see it continue to flourish.
Obviously it's not foolproof. Eventually there is always some group that manages to crack it wide open. That has been true for even the strongest anti-piracy measures in the past.
So I have no concern about long-term preservation. Right now, it's good to make pirates sweat a bit and wait before having free access to unlimited software. It's ridiculous to have them get access to software the same day as paying customers.
Normally PC games are fully piratable and cracked open long before now.
Denuvo is really working as a short-term solution to piracy and I'm really glad to see it continue to flourish.
Obviously it's not foolproof. Eventually there is always some group that manages to crack it wide open. That has been true for even the strongest anti-piracy measures in the past.
So I have no concern about long-term preservation. Right now, it's good to make pirates sweat a bit and wait before having free access to unlimited software. It's ridiculous to have them get access to software the same day as paying customers.
CecilRousso
Member
One thing I still haven't understood about Denuvo, does it have any kind of server depency, where it registers information about your setup, even though it doesn't limit activations?
Mackenzie 92
Member
curious how this drm works?
michaelius
Banned
Ok to 5 Euro bargain bin they go.
Wowfunhappy
Member
That's not Denuvo. That's Steam.
chrominance
Member
DRM had a deservedly bad reputation in previous years because of performance, inability to fully uninstall, and at their worse, being essentially indistinguishable from rootkits. Besides the fact that no one's been able to crack it, what makes Denuvo different? I don't mind that it temporarily stymies pirates, but I'm not about to welcome a new regime of intrusive DRM either.
Nah that's because of the smaller market share but higher demand for development resources
Alcoholikaust
Member
Anything making it more difficult for pirates is good
Starforce literally destroyed some people's hardware. SecuROM can be a bastard to fully remove as well, so much so that Windows 10 completely blocks some versions of it due to security concerns. I don't think publishers are concerned about courts in this case considering they got away with it all before.
NDP_Mulcair
Banned
People who can't afford software have other avenues nowadays for testing whether or not they like a product, such as watching a YouTube playthrough with no commentary. YouTube playthroughs and YouTube Let's Plays have been proven to increase sales of games.
There's no need to have rampant, freely-available piracy the same day as the legitimate release in this day and age.
I am fully aware that not every pirated game is a lost sale. However, there are nasty, immoral people out there who fully have the means to purchase PC games on Steam but prefer to play them exclusively through piracy because it's so easy and rampant without any form of DRM solution.
Hopefully this puts a >6 month buffer between legitimate, paying customers and pirates such that those people who don't give a fuck about morals may actually decide to support the company for once instead of being assholes. They deserve to wait.
Denuvo is a much better DRM system than the incredibly invasive, spyware-esque DRM tech of the past. It's not perfect but considering the abysmal history of DRM it's definitely tolerlable. And considering how Denuvo will eventually get cracked open for these games like it has in the past, I really don't see how a time delay for pirates is inherently a bad thing.
There's no need to have rampant, freely-available piracy the same day as the legitimate release in this day and age.
I am fully aware that not every pirated game is a lost sale. However, there are nasty, immoral people out there who fully have the means to purchase PC games on Steam but prefer to play them exclusively through piracy because it's so easy and rampant without any form of DRM solution.
Hopefully this puts a >6 month buffer between legitimate, paying customers and pirates such that those people who don't give a fuck about morals may actually decide to support the company for once instead of being assholes. They deserve to wait.
Denuvo is a much better DRM system than the incredibly invasive, spyware-esque DRM tech of the past. It's not perfect but considering the abysmal history of DRM it's definitely tolerlable. And considering how Denuvo will eventually get cracked open for these games like it has in the past, I really don't see how a time delay for pirates is inherently a bad thing.
I've heard that Denuvo can be configured the same way. Caused some trouble with a recent GTA5 patch.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I'm fine with this but I wish more companies would remove this stuff when the game becomes legacy software in 8-9 years and they have made their money on it. Release it drm free later on when its selling for $10 or so.
We just found Crossing Eden equivalent of Denuvo CEO secret account.
NDP_Mulcair
Banned
Dragon Age Inquisition is a fantastic example.
That game was also protected by Denuvo. It was released on November 18th, 2014 but cracks and pirated releases only started appearing around mid-December, and the game was only fully pirated without any crashes in July of the following year.
That's exactly the kind of time delay that I'm more than willing to accept. Because if you wait, you can still pirate it, but developers still have a very fair chance to enjoy sales without any piracy plaguing the franchise.
PeskyToaster
Member
Preservation is such a limp excuse. It's okay to be honest, you don't have to couch cheapness with some fake moral high ground.
Necromanti
Member
Hopefully "anti-tampering" DRM like this doesn't become ubiquitous to the point that it is present in games that could really benefit from having mods. But I'm sure there are people who believe that games should only be played as they are intended without perverting the creators' original vision.
Spacejaws
Member
Well don't know if it's typical but I was locked out of MGSV after playing a a good couple of hours then putting steam into offline mode the game required me to go online and download the latest patch before it let me play offline. I play for months offline and this stuff is a big deal to me but I don't know if that was paticular to MGS V and its online user agreement at the startup screen.
Denuvo literally just stops you from changing the executable. Whatever other DRM the developer decides to bundle in with it is the one that stops you from modding etc. (well to a point as you cannot change the executable which would be needed for things like adding multiplayer to JC3)
NDP_Mulcair
Banned
Why is a 6 month time delay for pirates such an inherently bad idea?
Or are you going to start telling me that there are absolutely ZERO immoral bastards out there who have the means to purchase PC software but don't?
Because that's ridiculous. Sure, some people have legitimate reasons for pirating software. But others don't, and those are the people who shouldn't have access to free software the same day as legitimate, paying customers.
I have no sympathy for people who have no interest in supporting game developers, and I don't think I have to be a "Denuvo CEO" to be justified in my beliefs.
Wow, just insult everyone with a different opinion to yours, nice.
There are serious concerns about whether some games will be playable once servers are shut down. This isn't a limp excuse but a reality. We've already seen some games become unplayable on Windows 10 without using third party cracks - I guess in your opinion this is fine?
LordOcidax
Member
Excellent, things looking good for devs on pc.
Not if their games are still not selling.
I'm determined to avoid any game with Denuvo in it (or DRM in general, for that matter). It's been pretty easy so far because it's only been in games I find dreadful from publishers who are appalling. It's no surprise to me that this is the case.
It's a little dispiriting to see people accepting and even cheerleadering for this type of thing though. Ah well.
It's a little dispiriting to see people accepting and even cheerleadering for this type of thing though. Ah well.
LordOcidax
Member
I am talking about piracy....
Sorry but I can't build up a discussion with someone that is insulting and morally judging people he disagrees with in every paragraph, while reciting a PR-like argument, stonewalling and bad rhetoric. That wouldn't be interesting, dialogue needs complexity, not insults and people dealing in absolutes (good moral people VS bad immoral bastards)
These games that don't work on Windows 10 is due to some old DRM using some weird driver/rootkit things. One of the good things about Denuvo is that you don't need those. You just slap in the very simple Steam/Origin/Whatever DRM and use Denuvo to make sure that nobody removes it from your title.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'm out.
I mean, I wasn't buying Far Cry Primal anyway, but Tomb Raider? Passing on it. Looks cool, but not cool enough that I'll put up with bullshit.
I mean, I wasn't buying Far Cry Primal anyway, but Tomb Raider? Passing on it. Looks cool, but not cool enough that I'll put up with bullshit.
CecilRousso
Member
Googled a bit about Denuvo, to see how it works, and the best "source" I could find where some reddit discussions about it, claiming that it collects information about your setup, phones home about it, and then grants the activation.
If true, and with the disclaimer about it leaving things your computer, even after the game that comes with it is uninstalled, why should we give this the free pass Securom didn't get? Because it comes with an arbitrary number of activations instead of a specified amount?
Or is the "phone home" bit, it calling the Steam/uPlay/Origin servers instead of specific Denuvo servers?
If true, and with the disclaimer about it leaving things your computer, even after the game that comes with it is uninstalled, why should we give this the free pass Securom didn't get? Because it comes with an arbitrary number of activations instead of a specified amount?
Or is the "phone home" bit, it calling the Steam/uPlay/Origin servers instead of specific Denuvo servers?
NDP_Mulcair
Banned
Why am I dealing in absolutes if I'm:
a) Recognizing the need for long-term preservation
b) Acknowledging that some people have legitimate reasons to pirate
c) Remembering the draconian DRM systems of the past and discussed how DRM isn't always a good thing
d) Justifying that it's okay because it will always be cracked eventually like Denuvo has in the past
So how about you actually respond to what I'm saying instead of resorting to cheap, low-ball insults?
And please tell me how people who have the means but no interest in supporting developers should always have free, unlimited access to games day-one without any time delay.
This is pretty much the exact opposite how it works (whatever DRM you protect with Denuvo might phone home but that isn't Denuvo)
It just makes it so that you if you change anything in the executable it will crash. Basically it just scrambles the program around in the executable making it unreadable to humans (and extremely fragile to program crashing bugs if you change anything) and decrypts on the fly. This does have a performance cost so its only done for the parts of the game that are not so performance critical like some menus etc. but still enough to crash your game if you change something in the executable.
Sure, but Denuvo needs to call home to activate. If those servers go down, the game becomes unplayable. If there's no crack available, then that game vanishes.
I'd feel a lot more comfortable if companies went the route of removing the really hardcore DRM say a year after launch, but it'll never happen. That's why it's down to cracking scenes to make sure there are workarounds available in future.
Beer Monkey
Member
So, a rootkit.
Guess I'll be waiting for PS4 Lara then. Seems unclear about this being fully removable from your PC and that's an instant no no for me.
I don't mind solutions to prevent piracy but only if I can be 100% sure they don't leave junk or delve into my PC in ways I don't want.
I'll research further but the licence basically noting files may remain is pretty "no thanks" for me.
I don't mind solutions to prevent piracy but only if I can be 100% sure they don't leave junk or delve into my PC in ways I don't want.
I'll research further but the licence basically noting files may remain is pretty "no thanks" for me.
batman2million
Member
This is great. But tbh, there is no such thing as full proof security on any application. I've been in IT security long enough to know that eventually, someone will find a way. Unless you want a game that will needs to be 100% online to work, hackers will be able to break it day one.
Another thing is that there's always some compromise for security. I'm pretty sure there is something in denuvo, I'm not sure anyone has found it yet.
Another thing is that there's always some compromise for security. I'm pretty sure there is something in denuvo, I'm not sure anyone has found it yet.
How did it cause trouble with a recent GTAV patch if GTAV doesn't even use it?
alexbull_uk
Member
As long as I can play offline if I need to this doesn't bother me at all.
Reading a bit more it does seem to call home on first activation to create the encryption keys or whatever. But this really isn't any worse then say steam drm when talking about requiring access to the internet. I think you can also do the activation by calling some support number. But yeah there is the risk that in 5 to 10 years EA or whatever might decide to stop supporting the activation of the game. Though I would hope they release a patch that removes it before that (not going to happen though...)
Well after just having unsuccessfully spent 6 hours trying to legally run GTA4-EFLC on Win10,which has Securom 7 (protection from the same minds as denuvo anti-pampers). And what finally worked was
I guess I will stick to other games without the touch of fishy protections-
a crack ...
I guess I will stick to other games without the touch of fishy protections-
CecilRousso
Member
Of course two server depencies are worse then one. That's a damn slippery slope the publishers deciding to use this DRM are putting us on, and is making Denuvo the Securom MKII.
Luckily, 7 out of 10 of my planned purchases this year are games that will be DRM free also, and I hope that XCOM2 with it's outspoken support for mods also stays away from it.
It's interesting to see several gaming sites completely ignoring this aspect, the one that really counts, when writing about it.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
That is.... quite the leap in logic.
Pretty sure Xcom2 will have some form of steam's CEG antitampering solution which is not as hardcore and fishy.
About the "jurnous" - yeah really strange - most likely just denuvo marketing team in full force .
PerfectFlaw
Member
I don't know who let you out of the NPD thread, but I like it. Your posts are always on point.