Support NeoGAF

[Coffee Dog]

It probably wasn't to make the product -less- palatable for their target audience


Some change > no change at all.

But those things directly impact Fire Emblem's reception among western audiences. Shouldn't it be Nintendo's responsibility to ensure that fire emblem is more well received among western gamers?

 

[Green Mamba]

you can still marry 1000 year old dragons, the game is still anime as fuck.

How does this one change undo that?

It's not like there's one single "anime switch" that defines how it's perceived, it's a sliding scale. And they lopped off one of the worst sides of the cut. It may not make it completely without warts but one less wart is one less wart.

 

[Yoshi]

you don't mean that

Please enlighten me.

 

[RM8]

You're nuts. Tear Ring is great

My Japanese is super weak ;(

 

[fernoca]

Nintendo, the business, is willingly making these changes because they feel it will make it easier to sell the game.

But the creators who thought this petting mode was a worthwhile inclusion, and the artists and animators that poured a lot of heart and soul into modeling and animating all of these characters? Kind of sucks for them.

I imagine it feels odd to see large swathes of their work removed in other regions, and for the people there to not get the full experience they designed.

And it sucks. But that's the reality of many things across every kind of media. If something is released and it gives mixed or negative impressions, changes are made that they feel improve it.

That it results in a better or worse product and that said changes also impact reception is what they'll see.

 

[pizzacat]

The us version seems barebones, all the good stuff being taken away

 

[Coffee Dog]

I don't think there is a problem with portraying a loving relationship of any sorts, but this isn't a tasteful way of doing it. Making a minigame where you rub a person's face till they open up trivializes relationships, which should really happen in a t rated game. There's nothing wrong with this being your thing, but there's a time and a place.

Supports in general trivialize relationships, which reduce them to three comical side encounters and then MARRY ME FOREVER.

 

[Neiteio]

IMO this angle of the discussion is pointless on both sides.

We don't know why Nintendo cut the content. Could be price of VO, Western sensibilities, some combination of both, etc.

Likewise, we don't know that the developers actually wanted it. Sure, they could say they did in some interview, but that's also just unreliable PR. It's just as realistic to say that to try to capture the lightning in the bottle that was Awakening, NCL pressured the creators to double down on the stuff. You also don't know if the artists poured their heart and soul into anything.

This is true, I'll admit. Many assumptions going on here, on all sides of the debate.

I think a better analogy is someone going to an amusement park and in that amusement park there is a ride that you do not like but never have to engage or get on it.

I mean I don't consider the amusement park less simply because there was a ride there I didn't like and chose not to ride. But I would never advocate they get ride of the ride simply because I do not like it.

I like this analogy.

 

[RM8]

You're changing the subject. Nintendo didn't remove it because it was "stupid". "Stupid" things don't make games more or less palatable for your audience. There is either a cost or a cultural factor here. Or both.

You said that "maybe we just think it's stupid". Not Nintendo.

I said that in response to someone saying we, the people advocating for this change (not Nintendo), are offended by it.

 

[BroodShadow]

good thing it doesn't matter for the devs either. Publisher's IP, their choice

I know a lot of these decisions are made by a advisory board but it does not make it any less disappointing.

In a age with less censorship than ever it's sad to NOA stick to the same way they have always done things.

 

[Kinsei]

The us version seems barebones, all the good stuff being taken away

Gay conversion and face petting is all the good stuff?

 

[Yoshi]

They could remove children since those have been VERY optional but Supports are a staple of the series, they are not going to get rid of THAT.

I'm fine with supports and also children. I'm not fine with the story and presentational side of that.
Standing next to each other to strengthen the bond of characters and make them strong when paired in the battle, as well as bearing children as a consquence is fine. "Oh you are so cute *happyhappy*" is not.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

How is this not censorship? NOA is cutting a part of the game They don't feel is right for their audience regardless if it hurts artist's original intent.

This is Nintendo making a localisation decision for its own property. Its not an authority making arbitrary decisions on their product.

Censorship is a word that should have some real fucking weight to it. Instead, it's been rendered meaningless due to the gaming community's constant hissy fits over looks, volleyball and now a stupid mini game.

 

[Coffee Dog]

It's not like there's one single "anime switch" that defines how it's perceived, it's a sliding scale. And they lopped off one of the worst sides of the cut. It may not make it completely without warts but one less wart is one less wart.

Well, yeah. It's just one wart when there are plenty of worse warts that need to be lopped off for western success. It seems like a halfway compromise that only accomplishes giving the western gamers a lesser product.

 

[Dr. Buni]

So, which content will be cut next?

Hopefully anything else that is creepy and have no business in a SRPG So half of the content in the current FE games.

 

[Slayven]

It looks like some Newsground flash circa 1999

 

[Ekai]

Gay conversion and face petting is all the good stuff?

We had lots of people attempting to defend the gay conversion in the other thread. So I'm not surprised if it happens here.

 

[JeffZero]

...man, this series has gotten weird.

 

[Yoshi]

Would there be anything left?

Yes, an incredible SRPG with well-planned mechanics and great mission design.

 

[Warxard]

In a age with less censorship than ever it's sad to NOA stick to the same way they have always done things.

yeah because those ways make money

 

[sensui-tomo]

Gay conversion and face petting is all the good stuff?

one of those is not like the other.
GC = Bad
FP= not bad. just odd to be in the game, but not bad

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

But now how will I have my characters tell me to jizz on them?

Spoiler

That was a thing, right? Not a hoax? The "this time I want you to decorate me with your love" line?

 

[TR_]

So if they removed content does that mean the game will be cheaper?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Tangential, but what about games with very clear divides in content? A prominent example is single player and multiplayer. I couldn't care less about the fact that GTA5 had online multiplayer and I probably wouldn't have had much fun with it, but I loved the single player story very much.

I think there is value in being able to disassociate elements in a game from each other, letting players pick the content they want to interact with and ignore the ones they don't.

I understand the argument when there is a clear divide. The conversation then often becomes something different about value proposition. Like if I only play single player or I only play online multiplayer, is a yearly Call of Duty worth it when I'm only utilizing half the game? But I do agree with you in that if I did find the yearly Call of Duty campaigns to be must plays and worth the entry price in and of itself, it would be odd to complain about the mere existence of the multiplayer mode. What often happens in these cases is that people might complain that not enough resources are devoted to the mode they do like so that more resources can be devoted to the mode they don't. For instance, I might not complain about an optional multiplayer mode, but I might feel like the campaign is too short and blame the existence of the multiplayer mode for it.

But as you noted that's sort of tangential to this conversation. And like I said, I realize that the film scene comparison isn't perfect.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Hopefully anything else that is creepy and have no business in a SRPG So half of the content in the current FE games.

At that point, you might as well go up to Nintendo and ask for an Advance Wars revival.

 

[RM8]

...man, this series has gotten weird.

It blows, right?

 

[Green Mamba]

Well, yeah. It's just one wart when there are plenty of worse warts that need to be lopped off for western success. It seems like a halfway compromise that only accomplishes giving the western gamers a lesser product.

Half way there to almost decency is better than no progress at all, and "lesser product" is a pretty subjective way to look at it as I doubt the average member of the Western audience would "appreciate" face petting.

 

[Coffee Dog]

This is Nintendo making a localisation decision for its own property. Its not an authority making arbitrary decisions on their product.

Censorship is a word that should have some real fucking weight to it. Instead, it's been rendered meaningless due to the gaming community's constant hissy fits over looks, volleyball and now a stupid mini game.

Once again, this is a term that the gaming community has used for many years. it may not be technically correct, but the cat is out of the bag. Google "Fallout 3 Australia" or "Left 4 Dead 2 Australia". The suggested word is not localization, but censorship. It sucks, but that's the reality.

 

[Kinsei]

one of those is not like the other.
GC = Bad
FP= not bad. just odd to be in the game, but not bad

I wasn't trying to compare them. I just found it odd that the poster I was quoting said they were removing all of the good stuff, hen those are the only two changes (to my knowledge).

 

[captainpat]

Censorship is a word that should have some real fucking weight to it. Instead, it's been rendered meaningless due to the gaming community's constant hissy fits over looks, volleyball and now a stupid mini game.

Right, rendered meaningless because some people on gaming forums are using it in a way you don't like. Are you serious?

 

[JeffZero]

It blows, right?

Utterly. ._.

 

[Weebos]

The us version seems barebones, all the good stuff being taken away

The good stuff being the Soleil conversation and this touching minigame?

Is there something else that was removed?

 

[John Kowalski]

Man Ninty is going heavy on this stuff.

I wonder if the game was developed with this change in mind.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

They should call it FE:Fates Godlike version Birthright and Godlike version Conquest

 

[DNAbro]

Once again, this is a term that the gaming community has used for many years. it may not be technically correct, but the cat is out of the bag. Google "Fallout 3 Australia" or "Left 4 Dead 2 Australia". The suggested word is not localization, but censorship. It sucks, but that's the reality.

aren't those because the Australian government though? that's real censorship.

 

[deadeyekiwi]

But that scene where the guy gets skewered with arrows is a-ok right?

Haven't seen what ever part of the game has that, but I'm assuming that visually its closer to bambis mom dying then kung jin's fatality if its in FE. Death is a part of life, people that see extreme gore irl can get PTSD and young children might be traumatized by that shit.

 

[Rich!]

Not really happy about them chopping up the game like this.

The fan translation of the JP version is basically near complete now, and from the looks of it is fantastic. I'll just import that version, use the patch on my 3DS and play it as originally intended.

 

[sensui-tomo]

I wasn't trying to compare them. I just found it odd that the poster I was quoting said they were removing all of the good stuff, hen those are the only two changes (to my knowledge).

Okay, wasnt sure where you were going with that... but i can admit that scene with the conversion was odd and clearly needed to be touched upon (no pun)

 

[Coffee Dog]

Half way there to almost decency is better than no progress at all, and "lesser product" is a pretty subjective way to look at it as I doubt the average member of the Western audience would "appreciate" face petting.

Lesser product, used as in, this game has less in it. You may prefer that, but you prefer that the game has less in it. Same product but with less, charged full game price.

As for the bolded, the average member of the western audience would not appreciate a whole host of shit in Fire Emblem. Trying to make it appeal to that audience will require much greater changes than just this. That's why this seems like an arbitrary halfway.

 

[Ridley327]

aren't those because the Australian government though? that's real censorship.

Germany does that, too. Among other things, the German version of RE4 didn't have Mercenaries.

RE4. Without Mercenaries.

Truly, the darkest timeline.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Yeah, Tiki was only 500.

well that and you couldn't marry anyone

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Not really happy about them chopping up the game like this.

The fan translation of the JP version is basically near complete now, and from the looks of it is fantastic. I'll just import that version, use the patch on my 3DS and play it as originally intended.

Its far from fantastic, serviceable is the best word I would use after seeing some videos of it. They need to put more work into it.

 

[RM8]

well that and you couldn't marry anyone

I miss Shadow Dragon.

 

[Coffee Dog]

aren't those because the Australian government though? that's real censorship.

As far as I can tell, they could have released the game with a higher rating, but they chose to alter the content so that it fit the australian market more.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I think a better analogy is someone going to an amusement park and in that amusement park there is a ride that you do not like but never have to engage or get on it.

I mean I don't consider the amusement park less simply because there was a ride there I didn't like and chose not to ride. But I would never advocate they get ride of the ride simply because I do not like it.

The problem with analogies I find is that while they're just used to illustrate points, often we wind up nitpicking why they aren't perfect. For instance, I can concede where you're going here, but I feel like the concern isn't just that this thing I don't like is there and I don't want it to be there because I don't like it. But, imagine instead of the ride not being my cup of tea, I found it thematically inappropriate and not in tune with the park's values, or why I go to that park.

For instance, I might go to the local Six Flags and be used to family friendly themes like DC Superheroes and Loony Tunes stuff. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere there's a gory ride from the Simpsons Itchy and Scratchy Land. This is that argument of tone that some are rejecting.

 

[maxcriden]

It blows, right?

I'm not Jeff but it really does. I want Nintendo to stay away from the waifu game....

 

[Kinsei]

well that and you couldn't marry her

And she was wearing more than underwear with a cape.

 

[kuroneko0509]

Not really happy about them chopping up the game like this.

The fan translation of the JP version is basically near complete now, and from the looks of it is fantastic. I'll just import that version, use the patch on my 3DS and play it as originally intended.

fantastic? not really. i mean, the translations are ok but not really a top tier fan translation imo

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Well at least this thread showed me where people actually stand in discussions.

Germany does that, too. Among other things, the German version of RE4 didn't have Mercenaries.

RE4. Without Mercenaries.

Truly, the darkest timeline.

Why mercenaries in particular? It's the same thing.

 

[Haly]

I think a better analogy is someone going to an amusement park and in that amusement park there is a ride that you do not like but never have to engage or get on it.

I mean I don't consider the amusement park less simply because there was a ride there I didn't like and chose not to ride. But I would never advocate they get ride of the ride simply because I do not like it.

Disclaimer: The following is a hypothetical and does not necessarily reflect my opinion of the petting game.

If the ride was called "Cowboys and Indians" and visitors assumed the role of cowboys taking shots at cardboard Native caricatures, yes, I would think less of the amusement park. I won't pay to ride it, I wouldn't even mention it on my 3.5 star "service could've been better" Yelp review, but my opinion of the park and its organizers is lessened overall if they kept it around when the issue is inevitably brought up.

This is the perspective many people are coming from.