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[klee123]

Didn't like the character design at all.

Especially initially, when he looked like a crackhead.

Then again, I was never a fan of Ninja theory's designs in the first place.

 

[Zomba13]

Unshakable logic, I can't argue with that! /s



Shirtless Dante taking three scythe blows to the chest and just shrugging it off whilst eating pizza and saying 'Let's Rock!' to some shitty metal is more edgy and try-hard than anything you'll see in the new DmC game. I'm curious, did you even play it to completion? DmC Dante is more of a likable smart ass compared to OG Dante, who is mostly just arrogant and borderline insufferable.

The start of the clip can be seen as edgy and serious with the music and stuff but he flips over a table and grabs his box of pizza, then when he is stabbed by a bunch of enemies he walks away dragging one along the floor. It's silly and over the top. I don't think anyone eats pizza and says "Let's Rock!" while playing shitty metal to be cool. Like, edgy is doing stuff you a kid thinks you should do to be cool (smoking, drinking, say fuck a lot) but cheesy is doing stupid stuff but being self aware about it.

Like, New Dante has his cheesy moments (the opening in the trailer with the getting dressed in slow motion and the pizza crust dick thing) but he has his fair share of edgy "Look at me, I'm cool aren't I kids?" even if the stuff is supposed to be funny it still comes across as edgy because of the attitude and language used.

Old Dante has his share of "Look how silly and how much fun I'm having" but not so much "I'm a serious person doing serious stuff and I'm cool and mature". The closest is in DMC1 (I've not played 2 because everyone says how bad it is so I can't comment on that). He definitely has some edge (and melodrama) in 1. But in 3 and especially 4 he's more self aware and cheesy and camp. Less "cool" in the "I should look this way and do this stuff because it's mature" and more "I'm doing this and looking this way because I think it's fun".

Because the whole scene in general is cringe-worthy. Camp isn't always good, you know, there is such a thing as trying too hard. (Which is exactly what DMC3 does).

Cringe-worthy=/= edgy. Now, camp, cheese, silly, all of those can be cringe-worthy. That doesn't make them edgy. Just because you cringe at something doesn't mean it's edgy. Being edgy is cringe-worthy too. People trying too hard to be "cool" or "hardcore" (not silly or fun or camp).

If you want to say both Dantes are cringe-worthy then sure. That is perfectly fine. If you want to say they are both cringe-worthy because they are both edgy try-hards then I don't think it holds up. Some people don't like camp, silly characters. I love pantomimes and always have so I fully embrace camp and I totally get some people might look at DMC3 and 4 Dante being silly and having fun and thinking "what a loser".

 

[Seyavesh]

how about that, a new page

Let's look at what changed and didn't change with DmC, shall we.

DmC failed to change so much that actually matters. Progression is still completely linear by the chapter system sticks to the series like gum in its hair, the enemies are still punching bags, instead of getting rid of the pointless platforming they doubled down on it, the weapon/style switching is still unnecessarily convoluted, they failed to shake up the level design,

The story is a retread of DMC1 and DMC3, the concept of Limbo has little impact on gameplay, the urban environments meets demonic wonderland amount to pretty looking skyboxes instead of actually interesting level design, modern trends like cinematic set pieces and forced walking sections, boss fights are interrupted by cutscenes and scripted events, they got rid of the lock-on which breaks the combat on higher difficulties, the Angel/Devil system restricts the freedom of the combat needlessly, the weapon switching is even more convoluted by combining a toggle based weapon switch with the weapon switching of DMC3 and the stupid weapon shuffling from DMC3, weapons are now light/medium/heavy which sucks the fun out of combat even further, the combat has less options because of a more limited move set even though there's two more weapons, Dante's Devil Trigger is the worst version yet as it offers nothing beyond an anti-grav feature and a generic power up.

No, people didn't hate DmC Dante because they "hate change". They hated DmC Dante because the initial reveal was absolutely terrible, because instead of taking the criticism to heart Tameem and Capcom's Alex Jones dismissed fan concerns and insulted them instead. They hated DmC Dante because he's much less of the goofy cartoon character that people loved. They hate DmC Dante because he fucks strippers in the intro, and lives in a trailer. They hate DmC Dante because he's dressed like he's hobo. They hate DmC Dante because of the nature of the reboot his character represented a regression of all the development the original version of the character had undergone.

You can argue that some or none of those things matter. Personally, I don't really care about the changes that much because gameplay is no. 1 to me. But no one hates DmC Dante solely because they "hate change". It's a completely embarrassing notion and something that sounds like a commenter on a Daily Mail article would say than a NeoGAF poster.
I'm sick to death of every DmC related thread being the same garbage ad nauseum. Random DmC stans insulting fans over trivial bullshit while ignoring the actual interesting stuff the game did because their interest in DmC will never be anything but shallow gravy, while on the other hand a bunch of DMC weekend warriors shout about how DmC was the worst thing ever and worse than DMC2 and while also failing to acknowledge the before-mentioned great additions to the formula that DmC had.

We're so goddamn lucky that people like Rahni Tucker and NeoGAF's own TribladeX were involved in DmC because I shudder to think about what kind of shit fest DmC would have been otherwise.



The best things DmC gave us was a fully 360 degree rotatable camera system, full 360 degree maneuverability in mid-air instead of the forced jump arcs of previous games, Ricoshot, Reverse Rainstorm, Aquila's mechanics, the changes to Vergil's combat mechanics and move set, Dojo/Training Mode, extensive stat tracking found in the options, in-game speed increasing by 10% at S rank and above, the changes to the upgrade system, the ability to try out moves before buying them, generally more intuitive menu system/interface, being able to quit and continue from the last checkpoint, secret missions being available from the menu, features like Turbo and Super Mode being toggles in the main menu instead of hidden in the options, almost no forced backtracking or puzzle solving, bosses get their own separate missions, environmental hazards which are useful in combat, enemies that can parry attacks mid-air/mid-combo, charge moves charge faster and are therefore much more useful, pause combo-switching (i.e. continuing a pause combo with a different weapon) which is accompanied by a controller rumble and the flashing of the weapon, moves with just frame properties for all weapon types and not just gauntlets, improved style visual UI as Style rank up is indicated by the letter filling up, the style ranking system in DmC DE which is the best version of any game in the series, toggle-based lock-on, Bloody Palace timer option, Must Style Mode, Gods Must Die as an official feature.



You're ignoring context. Merely an hour before we have a scene where Kat explains in dead pan about how she was abused and raped by her step father who was a demon. The tone of DmC, like the originals, is all over the place.

If people misunderstood anything about the story, the game itself is to blame.

and just because i can't resist the bait:
so edgy

 

[Mizerman]

DmC Dante is more of a likable smart ass compared to OG Dante, who is mostly just arrogant and borderline insufferable.

That's your opinion. I do not agree. Never will.

Because the whole scene in general is cringe-worthy. Camp isn't always good, you know, there is such a thing as trying too hard. (Which is exactly what DMC3 does).

Cringe-worthy to you. Not to me. And yes, camp doesn't appeal to everyone just in the same manner of tone that DmC was going for doesn't appeal to everyone. I felt that the reboot was trying too hard, you didn't.

 

[GuardianE]

It's quite easy (and lazy) to dismiss an entire fanbase for being irrational and illogical. As time has passed since the announcement, release, and re-release of DmC, you'll find that DMC fan concerns were warranted and justified, whereas there is a contingent of people who will insist on vilifying the DMC fanbase simply for fighting for something they care about. "White hair lol" wasn't a point of discussion a year after the reveal.

The most reductive and ignorant people will attribute the distaste of DmC Dante to "DMC fans hate change." As with any fanbase, there will be a subset that will despise any change to their sacred formula, but the DMC series as a whole is no stranger to change. Ironically, the hardcore DMC fanbase might be one of the most tolerant of change from game to game. The character focus has always shifted gears significantly from title to title. Every sequel featured a dramatic change, usually in character and scope. What was not compromised, however, was the attempt to hone and deepen the gameplay with each iteration. DmC was never advertised as such. In fact, DmC was advertised as an attempt to reach a casual demographic with a gritty urban western aesthetic at the expense of certain areas of gameplay depth.

Most hardcore DMC fans played DmC. Played it to death. Played it more than most people defending it. It's why we know there were problems with the original release. It's why we had issues with 30fps, no lock on, color coded enemies, broken devil trigger, broken damage values, broken style meter, and all around poor boss design. It's also why DmCDE changed all of these things. Because Ninja Theory recognized that all those little whiny fanboys had a point, and understood how to patch some of the glaring holes in their game.

All DMC fans don't universally hate change. They hated the changes that they saw coming throughout the development process because they recognized them, and spoke out against them. And continued to attack the game after release while they experienced those issues first hand.


But let's take a step back and look strictly at the superficial character design of DmC Dante. To argue that he was just the same as DMC Dante is either disingenuous or blind. DMC Dante was a goofball. Yes, even in DMC1. He was silly, over-the-top, slapstick, and lackadaisical. DmC Dante tries to appeal to a different kind of cool. There's no question that DmC Dante is harsher, cruder, and an anti-establishment bad boy archetype. He's not DMC Dante. He may be something you prefer, but he's not the same character. You have to understand that what DmC was proposing was the complete abandonment of a character that fans had grown attached to... not the change of that character, the deletion and subsitution. And while I certainly wouldn't argue that these are objective reasons why DmC is worse than DMC, I would argue that it's a perfectly legitimate reason for someone to not spend their hard earned money on a product that doesn't appeal to them.

The fan reaction to DmC's Dante was one spawned out of fear. The classic series might not have things that you care about, OP, but there was an existing dedicated fanbase that was threatened with the dissolution of the gameplay/story/characters that they loved... all while the series was arguably at its peak gameplaywise (saleswise definitely). And all for the sake of westernization and chasing God of War money. This has been confirmed by Itsuno in postmortem interviews - if DmC sold incredibly well, it would have been the series going forward. It seems that Capcom actually created what is essentially an irreconcilable rift in the fanbase, as is evidenced by threads like these.

It doesn't help that Ninja Theory, Capcom, and games journalists had the audacity to demonize the fanbase as a whole for actually speaking their minds and voting with their wallets. The entire tortured development process wasn't easy for Ninja Theory, but Tameem did no one any favors in how he opted to speak about the fanbase and outright ignore feedback. Thank God not everyone on the development team wasn't as blind as Tameem and certain members of Capcom. Key members and combat designer Rahni Tucker took feedback from the DMC and DmC fanbase to make DmCDE, a vastly vastly improved game all around, because they saw the legitimate concerns and criticisms from fans.

 

[Zomba13]

That's your opinion. I do not agree. Never will.

The funny thing about that is I feel the exact opposite from him. I feel old Dante was a loveable smart arse while new Dante is just a smug prick.

Well, most of the time. New Dante does have his few moments where it's almost like they looked at old Dante and said "hey, he isn't so bad". The trailer naked/getting dressed bit is probably the most old Dante thing in the game. You could absolutely see DMC3 Dante doing that. Though it'd be in the DMC office and not a trailer, because old Dante has cash.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I'll be honest, when DmC was first revealed I didn't really think much of it. It was just a mixture of surprise and confusion and after that I just put it at the back of my mind.

It was only way later when I found out how Ninja Theory and Capcom had antagonized the fanbase and how the gaming media tried to defend them. After I found out all the shit Tameen had said about the original game is when I entered the backlash.

So really my beef was less with DmC and more with Ninja Theory- I'll never touch a single Ninja Theory game after that, and I certainly won't wish them luck In any endeavour. At best I'll just stay out of anything related to them.

 

[Via Purifico]

Well considering how the creator mocked the fans and OG Dante's design along with gaming Journalists attacking the fanbase.....

Not much else to talk about when it came to the backlash. Personally I still find new Dante's design pretty damn generic compared to OG but I still enjoyed the game.

 

[Weiss]

Because the whole scene in general is cringe-worthy. Camp isn't always good, you know, there is such a thing as trying too hard. (Which is exactly what DMC3 does).

Dirty hooker trailer sex is, inherently, more try hard than a silly guy doing silly things.

DMC3 knew what it was; it was fucking ridonkulus. DmC had aspirations for a more gritty and profound narrative and failed tremendously in every aspect.

 

[Mizerman]

The funny thing about that is I feel the exact opposite from him. I feel old Dante was a loveable smart arse while new Dante is just a smug prick.

Well, most of the time. New Dante does have his few moments where it's almost like they looked at old Dante and said "hey, he isn't so bad". The trailer naked/getting dressed bit is probably the most old Dante thing in the game. You could absolutely see DMC3 Dante doing that. Though it'd be in the DMC office and not a trailer, because old Dante has cash.

Oh, that's my view as well. I prefer classic series Dante over the reboot.

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

Dirty hooker trailer sex is, inherently, more try hard than a silly guy doing silly things.

DMC3 knew what it was; it was fucking ridonkulus. DmC had aspirations for a more gritty and profound narrative and failed tremendously in every aspect.

When something is that self aware I can't get into it whatsoever, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Emperor_EL]

It's only natural that people think that the game takes itself seriously when you have the Director/Writer saying stuff like...

This is also the first game I’ve written, cast and directed myself. If i do my job right, you should be seeing a story of Dante that breaks the myth that all videogame stories are trite and will never stand up to the best that theatre and film have to offer.

http://www.nowgamer.com/dmc-devil-may-cry-ninja-theory-capcom-interview/

 

[paragonpro]

He was great, as was the game. Dmc 3 will always be top tier but that being said I think dmc reboot was far better than 2 and 4, and on par with one. The people who dont like him, for the most part, as stated in the first comment. Just doesnt like change. And i understand where they are coming from. I love halo, but if that series was rebooted with a chatty helmetless one liner spouting gen-eric nu chief, id be pissed too.

 

[dlauv]

For real tho. The game is just trashy-chic and just wears that like a badge.

On top of that, if the game was being tongue-in-cheek or satirical, it really didn't deliver that humor well at all outside of handful of scenes. You would have to have made a leap in logic to assume so (you could have been right, but I don't like leaping). It seemed mostly serious, indulgent, and the humor involved, when obvious, mostly wasn't very sophisticated or clever. I liked the dick gag (not the dick joke), the headline gag, "let's get high society," the squirrel semen and the egg-timer. Think of the Dante's Eye iPhone app if you want general tone.

The game seemed to deliberately obstruct you from having fun with the color-coded enemies. They were just a really laborious wrench in the system rather than added fun or strategy. This is probably because the game lacked Lock-On (at Capcom's discretion, I think), so it was a game about wrangling AI (or juggling wrenches indefinitely).

It was also super stupid-easy on top of a little janky.

That's not to say the game was bad. It's definitely still a competent game. Just kind of a slap in the face to people wanting a proper installment when you get a lesser game that practically dares you to hate it. More of a game than AAA 3rd-person shooter of the year.

 

[nailbombxx]

For me his design is lame and not appealing at all. I am not even a huge fan of Dante's original designs and style and I still found DmC Dante to be unlikeable and annoying. The dialog, and the enemy/boss design is all trash. I had expected more from the gameplay as well, a lot of dumb design choices were made and its not even better than a predecessor released 7 years beforehand and what competitors are doing. The only thing I liked was some of the environments but even then I am more partial to the gothic castles and shit of the previous DMC games.

I really like the narrative of how people only dislike DmC because "muh white hair", though. Has a whole hell of a lot more to do with it than that.

A convenient way to dismiss any criticisms for a game you don't understand why people don't like

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

I actually like DmC -- consider it my personal 2nd favorite game in the series after DMC3 Special Edition. I'm not a "pro" player in that I don't take advantage of the deepest and most complex mechanics of the games (nor do I particularly have the patience to learn them myself), but I do still think that Dante in DmC is problematic as a character.

I do think that his backstory is interestingly fleshed out, but I think his personality is really poorly-handled. I don't find him charismatic at all, but I do like his position as an underdog that's been through a lot of abuse. I think he'd be a lot more endearing to me if he'd been a lot more charming despite his hardships, but he's not particularly witty with any of his retorts, possesses zero flamboyance to the way he carries himself, and generally just seems driven by his anger and malice towards his oppressors. I can see how that's a more "realistic" approach, but I personally don't find it interesting -- I, in fact, sometimes feel like Dante is against ME as the player as much as he is against the negative forces in his life. I think that approach hurts Vergil, as well -- I like his underground leader position, but he's also lacking any sort of charm in the way he carries that identity.

But yeah, as a relative "casual" fan of the series (I do consider DMC to be one of my favorite series, so I don't know if "casual" feels accurate, despite my lower skill level) , I still think DmC is well-made and delightful to play, but I do very much miss the over-the-top personalities that exist in most of the other games of the series.

 

[Percy]

He was better than Nero at least.

 

[Monocle]

Because people hate change.

People hate bad change that ruins something they liked. If you love Call of Duty, and suddenly the next game is all about Laser Tag, and the characters have ridiculous anime designs, are you irrationally "hating change" when you reject that trash as something totally different than the CoD you love?

This is obviously a simplistic and exaggerated example, but clearly you weren't aware that when a sequel mixes things up, the changes needs to ring true to the style and content of the series. Otherwise most of the fanbase will be alienated.

 

[Eidan]

First post is correct. The reboot Dante was a massive improvement.

 

[Monocle]

First post is correct. The reboot Dante was a massive improvement.

First post is disingenuous tripe that unfairly discounts fans' valid issues with not just Dante's new design, but the game's inferior mechanics and Ninja Theory's disgraceful attitude toward the fanbase. You might prefer DmC to the previous games, but don't be like that poster and distort the reality of the situation.

 

[Astral Dog]

He was better than Nero at least.

NO 😠
But he might be better than other non DMC characters, Dante from DI,Jack from Mad World,The protagonist of God Hand, etc

 

[Brian_FETO]

When foreign movies are remade/Americanized it's generally looked upon unfavorably. It's cool if people liked DmC and it's take on Dante but you have to seriously be making an effort to not notice the differences between the two. The entire point of the remake was to have a drastically different take to appeal to a different, wider audience

Similarly, I appreciated Jackie Earle Haley's attempt at Freddy Krueger for what it was but I recognize that Robert Englund's was the definitive version and his absence was impossible to get past for many fans (much like DmC, the Nightmare On Elm Street remake had other issues as well, but that's besides the point)

 

[ChaoticBlue]

the guy looks like a punk. is 8 pages of this thread needed?

 

[down 2 orth]

Enslaved was a fucking awesome game, so I think I'm going to have to give Ninja Theory the benefit of the doubt and pick up DmC when I get the chance.

 

[Powwa]

There are great posts in this thread already explaining why DmC Dante fails to be fun and loveable character.

Personally I hated the new Dante in the beginning, by the end he was only a bit better but still left this sour taste in my mouth. He is not funny, has a lot more cringe-worthy dialogue compared to old Dante, looks uninspired, acts like a total douchebag without any wit behind it. To makes the things worse Vergil is completely butchered as well.

I mean in the end old Dante wasn't a sophisticated character either but he could be funny without saying plain "fuck you" and "bitch".

 

[IvorB]

Classic Dante is hot and adorable. Nu Dante is nasty and annoying.

 

[B-Genius]

I mean the games were always over the top and Dante was always ridiculous. His redesign in the reboot was different but it's not like the OG Dante design was something understated.

You seem to misunderstand. The hate comes from people who loved the ridiculous nature of OG Dante. I don't think anyone wanted "understated". Dante's cheese, over-the-top flair, and cockiness make him very silly, while still being a badass. And that makes him at least somewhat relateable/likeable.

Nu Dante is just a prick. They tried to make him ALL badass, and the game takes itself way too seriously to suit his terrible archetype.

When DMC3 Dante surfs on enemies while eating pizza half-naked, or performs missile motorcross on a Harley, that's a fun time, and you're supposed to go into the next bit of gameplay with a stupid grin on your face.

When DmC Dante steps out of a trailer butt-naked after having sexed some angel prostitutes or whatever, or screams profanities at a demon, what are you supposed to think? "Wow, this guy is one cool dude." No, the design and execution reek of "try hard", and the game (while solid mechanically) feels all the more dry because of it.

Edit: ^^^ IvorB is on the money.

He was better than Nero at least.

Haha, I quite liked Nero! I'll take emo/whiny over edgy/obnoxious any day.
Nero is to DMC4 what Raiden is to MGS2 (if you know what I mean).

 

[Rei no Otaku]

DmC is the best game in the series, and the DE made a great game even better. I hated new Dante in the reveal, but I grew to like him after playing the game. I also really liked what the Vergil DLC did with that character.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Some people hate new Dante because he isn't all the worst parts of anime combined like original Dante.

 

[Sylas]

Some people hate new Dante because he isn't all the worst parts of anime combined like original Dante.

I think you forgot how to spell the word "best."

 

[KevinCow]

I can't stand original Dante. Can't even make it through a single cutscene in any of his games. They're all so terrible and try waaaaay too hard to make Dante seem cool.

New Dante actually makes me laugh.

So I'll go with new Dante.

 

[Neonep]

A lot of people defending DmC use definitive edition as essentially an excuse. The original game wasn't good so they had to go back and add things that should have been there in the vanilla version but weren't. If this game were truly good then it would have sold better and a sequel would be in development. Neither of those things happened so guess what, it isn't really a good game.

 

[Bright-Light]

A lot of people defending DmC use definitive edition as essentially an excuse. The original game wasn't good so they had to go back and add things that should have been there in the vanilla version but weren't.

What was missing? I really enjoyed DmC but I only played the definitive. Not the original.

 

[Sylas]

I can't stand original Dante. Can't even make it through a single cutscene in any of his games. They're all so terrible and try waaaaay too hard to make Dante seem cool.

New Dante actually makes me laugh.

So I'll go with new Dante.

I mean, hey. If someone yelling FUCK YOU!!! is funny, by all means enjoy that brand of comedy. Plenty of people found Dane Cook funny too.

 

[Neonep]

What was missing? I really enjoyed DmC but I only played the definitive. Not the original.

No lock on, legit color coded enemies, ran at 30 fps along with a few other things.

 

[zoodoo]

I did not have any problem with it but my favorite Dante design remains his DMC 2 design. The game was mehh but the character looked good

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

It's quite easy (and lazy) to dismiss an entire fanbase for being irrational and illogical. As time has passed since the announcement, release, and re-release of DmC, you'll find that DMC fan concerns were warranted and justified, whereas there is a contingent of people who will insist on vilifying the DMC fanbase simply for fighting for something they care about. "White hair lol" wasn't a point of discussion a year after the reveal.

The most reductive and ignorant people will attribute the distaste of DmC Dante to "DMC fans hate change." As with any fanbase, there will be a subset that will despise any change to their sacred formula, but the DMC series as a whole is no stranger to change. Ironically, the hardcore DMC fanbase might be one of the most tolerant of change from game to game. The character focus has always shifted gears significantly from title to title. Every sequel featured a dramatic change, usually in character and scope. What was not compromised, however, was the attempt to hone and deepen the gameplay with each iteration. DmC was never advertised as such. In fact, DmC was advertised as an attempt to reach a casual demographic with a gritty urban western aesthetic at the expense of certain areas of gameplay depth.

Most hardcore DMC fans played DmC. Played it to death. Played it more than most people defending it. It's why we know there were problems with the original release. It's why we had issues with 30fps, no lock on, color coded enemies, broken devil trigger, broken damage values, broken style meter, and all around poor boss design. It's also why DmCDE changed all of these things. Because Ninja Theory recognized that all those little whiny fanboys had a point, and understood how to patch some of the glaring holes in their game.

All DMC fans don't universally hate change. They hated the changes that they saw coming throughout the development process because they recognized them, and spoke out against them. And continued to attack the game after release while they experienced those issues first hand.


But let's take a step back and look strictly at the superficial character design of DmC Dante. To argue that he was just the same as DMC Dante is either disingenuous or blind. DMC Dante was a goofball. Yes, even in DMC1. He was silly, over-the-top, slapstick, and lackadaisical. DmC Dante tries to appeal to a different kind of cool. There's no question that DmC Dante is harsher, cruder, and an anti-establishment bad boy archetype. He's not DMC Dante. He may be something you prefer, but he's not the same character. You have to understand that what DmC was proposing was the complete abandonment of a character that fans had grown attached to... not the change of that character, the deletion and subsitution. And while I certainly wouldn't argue that these are objective reasons why DmC is worse than DMC, I would argue that it's a perfectly legitimate reason for someone to not spend their hard earned money on a product that doesn't appeal to them.

The fan reaction to DmC's Dante was one spawned out of fear. The classic series might not have things that you care about, OP, but there was an existing dedicated fanbase that was threatened with the dissolution of the gameplay/story/characters that they loved... all while the series was arguably at its peak gameplaywise (saleswise definitely). And all for the sake of westernization and chasing God of War money. This has been confirmed by Itsuno in postmortem interviews - if DmC sold incredibly well, it would have been the series going forward. It seems that Capcom actually created what is essentially an irreconcilable rift in the fanbase, as is evidenced by threads like these.

It doesn't help that Ninja Theory, Capcom, and games journalists had the audacity to demonize the fanbase as a whole for actually speaking their minds and voting with their wallets. The entire tortured development process wasn't easy for Ninja Theory, but Tameem did no one any favors in how he opted to speak about the fanbase and outright ignore feedback. Thank God not everyone on the development team wasn't as blind as Tameem and certain members of Capcom. Key members and combat designer Rahni Tucker took feedback from the DMC and DmC fanbase to make DmCDE, a vastly vastly improved game all around, because they saw the legitimate concerns and criticisms from fans.

Can a mod delete the first response to the thread and put this in its place?

 

[Makoto Yuki]

It's a reboot, so I don't mind if they go nuts with it. I would have been fine with playing as druggy, chain smoking Dante as long as it works for the story they want to tell. Bonus points if they can make drugs and smoking a gameplay mechanic. Just as good as the original? It's hard to say really. I think they both work for the games they represent. DMC being very Japanese, while DmC is clearly focused on rebooting it from a western perspective.

DMC Dante's personality shifts in tones with every game. From cocky/badass (1), to young/brash (3), to uncle-like (4), and lack of (2). DmC Dante is just a street punk who learns to fend for himself at a young age. DMC Dante uses his powers to start a business hunting demons and eating pizza. DmC Dante just kills demons out of malice and lives his life like he will die any day. Right there you can already see they are very different characters, and should be viewed as such.

I understand why people don't like DmC Dante, but knowing that DmC is a reboot of the series, was always my anchor. It's a fine game, and their version of Dante is perfectly fine for the game he stars in.

The hatred is overblown in my opinion, it's easy to dismiss DmC Dante as a bad character. He starts off as a jaded and cynical young man who just wanted to drink and party because he has nothing to lose. Constantly hunted by demons, killing them is just his way of surviving. By the end of the game he wants to protect humanity going as far a fighting his brother. While it's not the greatest or unique mode of character development (from uncaring to a somewhat caring), it still manages to establish DmC Dante as his own unique character. I think Virgil and Mundus were way worse in DmC, but most villains tend to be one dimensional. In particular, Virgil's sudden - time for me to rule the world, was really jarring.

Is he a bad character? Naw. He is definitely the most controversial iteration of Dante, that is without question.

I still wish a DmC2 would be developed, maybe he starts a business where he kills demons for money and pizza. I also want a DMC5 which combines the Style Switching of DMC4 with the weapon breadth and variety of DMC3 with its own unique weapons for good measure.

 

[darkslayer101]

It's quite easy (and lazy) to dismiss an entire fanbase for being irrational and illogical. As time has passed since the announcement, release, and re-release of DmC, you'll find that DMC fan concerns were warranted and justified, whereas there is a contingent of people who will insist on vilifying the DMC fanbase simply for fighting for something they care about. "White hair lol" wasn't a point of discussion a year after the reveal.

The most reductive and ignorant people will attribute the distaste of DmC Dante to "DMC fans hate change." As with any fanbase, there will be a subset that will despise any change to their sacred formula, but the DMC series as a whole is no stranger to change. Ironically, the hardcore DMC fanbase might be one of the most tolerant of change from game to game. The character focus has always shifted gears significantly from title to title. Every sequel featured a dramatic change, usually in character and scope. What was not compromised, however, was the attempt to hone and deepen the gameplay with each iteration. DmC was never advertised as such. In fact, DmC was advertised as an attempt to reach a casual demographic with a gritty urban western aesthetic at the expense of certain areas of gameplay depth.

Most hardcore DMC fans played DmC. Played it to death. Played it more than most people defending it. It's why we know there were problems with the original release. It's why we had issues with 30fps, no lock on, color coded enemies, broken devil trigger, broken damage values, broken style meter, and all around poor boss design. It's also why DmCDE changed all of these things. Because Ninja Theory recognized that all those little whiny fanboys had a point, and understood how to patch some of the glaring holes in their game.

All DMC fans don't universally hate change. They hated the changes that they saw coming throughout the development process because they recognized them, and spoke out against them. And continued to attack the game after release while they experienced those issues first hand.


But let's take a step back and look strictly at the superficial character design of DmC Dante. To argue that he was just the same as DMC Dante is either disingenuous or blind. DMC Dante was a goofball. Yes, even in DMC1. He was silly, over-the-top, slapstick, and lackadaisical. DmC Dante tries to appeal to a different kind of cool. There's no question that DmC Dante is harsher, cruder, and an anti-establishment bad boy archetype. He's not DMC Dante. He may be something you prefer, but he's not the same character. You have to understand that what DmC was proposing was the complete abandonment of a character that fans had grown attached to... not the change of that character, the deletion and subsitution. And while I certainly wouldn't argue that these are objective reasons why DmC is worse than DMC, I would argue that it's a perfectly legitimate reason for someone to not spend their hard earned money on a product that doesn't appeal to them.

The fan reaction to DmC's Dante was one spawned out of fear. The classic series might not have things that you care about, OP, but there was an existing dedicated fanbase that was threatened with the dissolution of the gameplay/story/characters that they loved... all while the series was arguably at its peak gameplaywise (saleswise definitely). And all for the sake of westernization and chasing God of War money. This has been confirmed by Itsuno in postmortem interviews - if DmC sold incredibly well, it would have been the series going forward. It seems that Capcom actually created what is essentially an irreconcilable rift in the fanbase, as is evidenced by threads like these.

It doesn't help that Ninja Theory, Capcom, and games journalists had the audacity to demonize the fanbase as a whole for actually speaking their minds and voting with their wallets. The entire tortured development process wasn't easy for Ninja Theory, but Tameem did no one any favors in how he opted to speak about the fanbase and outright ignore feedback. Thank God not everyone on the development team wasn't as blind as Tameem and certain members of Capcom. Key members and combat designer Rahni Tucker took feedback from the DMC and DmC fanbase to make DmCDE, a vastly vastly improved game all around, because they saw the legitimate concerns and criticisms from fans.

 

[thesolidshark]

Despite tastes and opinions of who/what is better being subjective, I always find myself in favor of those who had more of a problem with what DmC was advertised, and ended up being. If Capcom, NT, and some journalists didn't help some pushback against the game and character, some of the best posts (in my opinion, of course) always come from those who had more problems with the game, and pointed them out at great length like Sesha, GuardianE, and a few other posters.

To the OP, I disagree with him being just as good. He was different, as was the intention, just rarely in a way that gelled with me, and never above the original Dante in nearly any form. A bad character? Maybe bad in being forgettable to me, other than that, I do wonder how amusing DMC3 Dante could made some scenes in DmC, as he's my current preference.

To add on to something Guardian mentioned that I agree with.

Most hardcore DMC fans played DmC. Played it to death. Played it more than most people defending it.

Besides I believe that the last sentence in the quote is important enough to be bolded, I do seriously wonder if circumstances are even further than that, where in terms of sales, the majority of money DmC made was from people who didn't like it, and did like what came before. This is all conjecture on my part, but the more I read the DMC vs DmC threads, or threads that turn into that, the more I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.

 

[KevinCow]

I mean, hey. If someone yelling FUCK YOU!!! is funny, by all means enjoy that brand of comedy. Plenty of people found Dane Cook funny too.

I mean, hey, if you think original Dante is cool, by all means, enjoy that brand of cool. Plenty of people find Shadow the Hedgehog cool, too. They're usually 12 years old, but if you want to have the taste of a 12-year-old, then that's fine.

 

[nded]

The irony of DmC fans being upset that DMC fans somehow "killed" the thing they love is delicious.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I'm more concerned on what will be going on with DmC fans in the future. Will DmC and DmC DE be the game's only appearance for those fans? I don't see capcom going the Resident Evil route and releasing both style of games. I feel like the series for better or worse depending on your feelings is over at this point. With the only future appearances maybe being some color styling like we saw in DMC4:SE. Will be interesting to see the sales of DMC5 or whatever comes next.

-----

As for this actual topic of this thread I liked both Dante's. I personally still really want to see both of them in the same game. With all of the hell portals and the like, I think you could get away with both Dante's screwing around in a game together. I mean technically the stuff from SMT3 story wise isn't disapproved as being canon. Since it would take place at the very end. Though i'm sure a creator said it wasn't. Was just using that as saying doing that sort of thing wouldn't be a stretch for the series.

Lastly out of all the playable characters for the series, I have to say Nero by far lacks the most personality to me.

 

[B-Genius]

I mean, hey, if you think original Dante is cool, by all means, enjoy that brand of cool. Plenty of people find Shadow the Hedgehog cool, too. They're usually 12 years old, but if you want to have the taste of a 12-year-old, then that's fine.

Now, I know you didn't just compare OG Dante to Shadow the fucking Hedgehog.
(If anything, DmC Dante is the Shadow of the series, but I won't dig there.)

People in this thread are making some pretty good arguments for both sides. Let's not reduce the situation to calling one another childish.

 

[Zomba13]

I mean, hey, if you think original Dante is cool, by all means, enjoy that brand of cool. Plenty of people find Shadow the Hedgehog cool, too. They're usually 12 years old, but if you want to have the taste of a 12-year-old, then that's fine.

Hey, just because New Dante is super edgy and try hard doesn't mean the people that like him are children. I mean, yeah, he does adhere to the more childish version of "cool" ("I wanna swear and smoke and drink! Yeah fuck you mom!") like Shadow but that's just petty.

EDIT: Wait. sorry. I thought you were talking about New Dante and how he's edgy and try hard (like Shadow) and not Old Dante (who if like anyone from Sonic is Sonic).

 

[Ralemont]

I knew about virtually none of the drama when I first played DmC. Previously I had played every DMC besides 2, so I wasn't a newcomer to the series. I thought the game was great and I didn't really mind DmC Dante. Then when I looked into it a bit, I saw the marketing behind everything, and how toxic the atmosphere became previous to release.

Whether or not DmC Dante is a terrible character or better or worse than white-haired Dante is one thing, but after reading about everything that occurred before the game actually got into people's hands, I think it's safe to say the new Dante didn't have much of a chance to win people over.

 

[KevinCow]

Now, I know you didn't just compare OG Dante to Shadow the fucking Hedgehog.
(If anything, DmC Dante is the Shadow of the series, but I won't dig there.)

People in this thread are making some pretty good arguments for both sides. Let's not reduce the situation to calling one another childish.

I did. Just like Shadow, original Dante tries so hard to be cool and fails spectacularly to anyone who has tastes more mature than a 12-year-old.

Though at least I can laugh at Shadow. Dante just makes me cringe and skip the cutscene.

So yes, I'm saying that Shadow the Hedgehog is a better character than original Dante, and also that if you legitimately think original Dante is cool, then you have the taste of a 12-year-old.

 

[Zomba13]

I did. Just like Shadow, original Dante tries so hard to be cool and fails spectacularly to anyone who has tastes more mature than a 12-year-old.

Though at least I can laugh at Shadow. Dante just makes me cringe and skip the cutscene.

So yes, I'm saying that Shadow the Hedgehog is a better character than original Dante, and also that if you legitimately think original Dante is cool, then you have the taste of a 12-year-old.

Just like Shadow, New Dante tries so hard to be cool and fails spectacularly to anyone who has tastes more mature than a 12-year-old.

Though at least I can laugh at Shadow. New Dante just makes me cringe and skip the cutscene.

So yes, I'm saying that Shadow the Hedgehog is a better character than New Dante, and also that if you legitimately think Newl Dante is cool, then you have the taste of a 12-year-old

 

[KevinCow]

Just like Shadow, New Dante tries so hard to be cool and fails spectacularly to anyone who has tastes more mature than a 12-year-old.

Though at least I can laugh at Shadow. New Dante just makes me cringe and skip the cutscene.

So yes, I'm saying that Shadow the Hedgehog is a better character than New Dante, and also that if you legitimately think original Dante is cool, then you have the taste of a 12-year-old

But new Dante never tries to be cool. He's consistently presented as an irritating, immature child.

Unlike original Dante, who goes to great lengths to make everything he does look cool, from eating a slice of pizza to picking up the phone.

And thanks for agreeing with the bolded.

 

[VeeP]

Its very easy:

1.) The first images of new Dante looked terrible. Seriously, he looked like a crackhead.

2.) Ninjatheory didn't do themselves any favors by the statements they made about the game or the fans.

3.) "Feels like 60 fps"