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[Coppanuva]

Catching up on last night's discussion, seems a lot of rehashing, and Tim responded adequately, cool beans. No follow-up for him directly right now, on that.

When I was catching up on the thread today this stuck out to me:

CzarTim's point on this being some big RUSE CRUISE for scum to snipe in the shadows with the commotion going on for two role-claims is something to be considered as well. Next day, at least, KingKitty's team should be taken into consideration.

It's interesting. First Tim tries to push for Kitty some, and now Boo Boo'n does. I'm not sure where this is coming from since overall people seemed kinda chill on him, and neither of them really offered much explanation for why they'd want to vote for them. KingKitty has been talkative and not really out of place IMO (though I haven't played with him outside of VI so I could be overlooking something), and HyperActivity has been inactive. I'm all for questioning them and getting talking, but why exactly are you two so gung-ho on those 2?

Vote: Boo Boo'n

Also UltraJay: I want to hear some thoughts from you on this game. You haven't posted yet (at least last I checked), and I would like to hear you talk some.

 

[Blargonaut]

Launch McQuack et al. is a vote trap

I see you

 

[Gorlak]

Launch McQuack et al. is a vote trap

I see you

Aye, what's your opinion on McSplint and the drunkard?

 

[Blargonaut]

Kawl, I don't want you around them anymore

Kawl

Don't vote for them

 

[Blargonaut]

Aye, what's your opinion on McSplint and the drunkard?

The sooner they acknowledge his problem the better

 

[Gorlak]

The sooner they acknowledge his problem the better

C'mon gimme something to work with. You can do this! Think back of the glorious Dumbledore times, me and you like the bests.

 

[Gorlak]

Bl?rg pl??s?... ? n??d y??r h?lp. N?v?r f?rg?t

 

[kingkitty]

It's interesting. First Tim tries to push for Kitty some, and now Boo Boo'n does. I'm not sure where this is coming from since overall people seemed kinda chill on him, and neither of them really offered much explanation for why they'd want to vote for them. KingKitty has been talkative and not really out of place IMO (though I haven't played with him outside of VI so I could be overlooking something), and HyperActivity has been inactive. I'm all for questioning them and getting talking, but why exactly are you two so gung-ho on those 2?

Vote: Boo Boo'n

Also UltraJay: I want to hear some thoughts from you on this game. You haven't posted yet (at least last I checked), and I would like to hear you talk some.

it's still early goings on Day 1, strong reasoning for someone's death isn't going to be tight just yet. i don't really see them as gung-ho either but maybe that's just me.

if coppacabanawithnoAC is scum, i figure they might look at ultraboo as a suitable deflection to cling onto.

i'm keepin these eyes open.

 

[Flame_AC]

Looking back multiple times, The team that still unsettles me the most is Coppanuva and Flame_AC. I'm voting for Flame because I think he's given me the most reason to. Immediately aiming for the Miller is odd—going so far as to say he'd want them lynched even if they were verified—and the combination of comments referring to consensus or lynching on D1 seem off.

On the bolded, I'm pretty sure I said that I would relent if the Miller was verified, but if not, then I would want them gone. What you're suggesting is saying that I would want to kill a supposed confirmed town power role, that's certainly not the case. I don't see why it's a bad thing to necessarily want to lynch an unconfirmed miller, which is precisely what Blarg and Kawl are.

Coppa/Flame: I no longer have an odd feeling about Coppa's posts right now, his response to me was satisfactory there. I'm keeping an eye on what other people say about Coppa, seeing as they know him better than I do. As for Flame... again, I found the "lynch the millers!" a bit shortsighted, but echoing what I said before I don't feel strongly about it. Leaning Neutral right now.

I'm all for having a confirmed miller in the game making it to the end, but my vote is one purely out of policy. I vote millers until town either supports it or moves on. Right now, we seem content to examine them on Day 2/3 so I'll unvote them and move on to someone whose opinion has not yet been known.

Unvote: Blargonaut
Vote: MagnumBoy20xx

This is purely a prod vote, I've heard from your partner, but you've done essentially nothing so far and I'd like to hear another opinion.

I also echo my partner's sentiments on Boo Boo but am more interested in getting more outside opinions right now.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Bl?rg pl??s?... ? n??d y??r h?lp. N?v?r f?rg?t

Pls no

 

[Gorlak]

Pls no

Hey Kawl, why did you mention that you are a tracker out of nowhere. Like, wouldn't that be useful to not tell?

 

[Kawl_USC]

Hey Kawl, why did you mention that you are a tracker out of nowhere. Like, wouldn't that be useful to not tell?

Eh, as a miller we felt like playing cards close to our chest would end poorly. We could have just said we were miller or said miller with unnamed PR, but felt that it was setting us up to be mistrusted later if we were seen as changing our story.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Launch McQuack et al. is a vote trap

I see you

I'm confused...

 

[Blargonaut]

Eh, as a miller we felt like playing cards close to our chest would end poorly. We could have just said we were miller or said miller with unnamed PR, but felt that it was setting us up to be mistrusted later if we were seen as changing our story.

yeah

 

[batsnacks]

On the bolded, I'm pretty sure I said that I would relent if the Miller was verified, but if not, then I would want them gone. What you're suggesting is saying that I would want to kill a supposed confirmed town power role, that's certainly not the case. I don't see why it's a bad thing to necessarily want to lynch an unconfirmed miller, which is precisely what Blarg and Kawl are.

I'm all for having a confirmed miller in the game making it to the end, but my vote is one purely out of policy. I vote millers until town either supports it or moves on. Right now, we seem content to examine them on Day 2/3 so I'll unvote them and move on to someone whose opinion has not yet been known.

Why policy vote the miller/tracker though? I don't understand the basis for the policy and I don't think anyone else does either, you're the only one who took that stance.

 

[Karkador]

I'm gonna nibble.

Kawl, is there any part of your role PM that suggests you would be specifically mistaken by your name?

And what happens if our "Name Cop" reports your name and it doesn't make it very clear whether you're town or scum?

 

[Blargonaut]

Kawl

He asked you a question, Kawl

 

[Kawl_USC]

I'm gonna nibble.

Kawl, is there any part of your role PM that suggests you would be specifically mistaken by your name?

And what happens if our "Name Cop" reports your name and it doesn't make it very clear whether you're town or scum?

I don't want to go into any details about our name right now tbh. I feel like any discussion gives TimeFlux a possible out if they are lying and make an educated guess.

I will say that I believe any confirmation tomorrow will be one way.

 

[Timeaisis]

Claiming miller makes no sense after a role cop claim, because a miller would be protected if the role cop confirms them.

Unless, they are sure me and Flux aren't actually role cops.

The timing, however, seems very weird. If we had claimed alignment cop I can see why a miler would jump out and roleclaim. But they did it so soon after the Flux reveal today. Its almost like they immediately judged our claim as false and counterclaimed, as it has been said, a RC doesn't make a lot of sense in a game with millers. Or they are trying to fake claim miller to make us seem sketchy. Or maybe they really are millers with unlucky timing.

FYI I'm about to get on a plane, so don't read too much into it if I don't respond immediately.

 

[Karkador]

I don't want to go into any details about our name right now tbh. I feel like any discussion gives TimeFlux a possible out if they are lying and make an educated guess.

I will say that I believe any confirmation tomorrow will be one way.

Flux (supposedly) does one job. He has to state your exact rolename, and that's exactly what his power does. Telling us if your PM text in any way suggests your "Miller-ness" is because of your rolename or not shouldn't give Flux any reasonable clues. Even if your role name is one word, it would probably still be pretty hard to guess.

Not only that, but if your "MIller-ness" actually comes from your rolename, it suggests that there IS a place for a Name Cop in the game - and it would explain why you seemed so willing to entertain Flux's roleclaim by claiming yourself and asking him to prove it.

 

[Karkador]

Also, you didn't answer this:

And what happens if our "Name Cop" reports your name and it doesn't make it very clear whether you're town or scum?

 

[Blargonaut]

Also, you didn't answer this:

And what happens if our "Name Cop" reports your name and it doesn't make it very clear whether you're town or scum?

Blame Burbeting

 

[Kawl_USC]

Not sure how many times I have to state that me and blargs first post(s) were always going to be revealing we were miller. It was not in response to Flux's claim.

But since you continue to press I will say that our name contains some ambivalence in it. Especially Compared to "Ordinary Pair of Lovers" from the example role PM.

Also, you didn't answer this:

And yea I did. But if that wasn't straightforward enough, I do not expect people to see our pairs name and immediately see us as cleared. At that point I'm counting on me and Blarg being able to contribute enough the old fashioned way to earn a continued stay in the tunnel of love.

 

[Flame_AC]

Why policy vote the miller/tracker though? I don't understand the basis for the policy and I don't think anyone else does either, you're the only one who took that stance.

I policy vote the miller part, to me, it's dangerous as long as it unconfirmed. Once we get later in the game then people will have actual leads and won't want to waste time going over someone who has seemed town friendly all game. I know a tracker can be valuable, but having someone who registers scum on a cop check is much more dangerous in my opinion. If he can be verified and town consensus is that he's okay, then I'll relent my push.

I don't remember who at the moment, will have to check, but someone else mentioned having a policy for lynching someone who claims Day 1. I don't know if I'm in favor of that yet, especially since it was a power role claim, but I thought it was interesting you bring up my policy lynch but not theirs. (Unless I missed it, in which case, forget this part)

 

[cabot]

And yea I did. But if that wasn't straightforward enough, I do not expect people to see our pairs name and immediately see us as cleared. At that point I'm counting on me and Blarg being able to contribute enough the old fashioned way to earn a continued stay in the tunnel of love.

Well you had a good run.

I've had my fair share of self analysis.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Well you had a good run.

I've had my fair share of self analysis.

You shut your mouth. I haven't even started digging into the twisted mind of myself yet.

 

[cabot]

You shut your mouth. I haven't even started digging into the twisted mind of myself yet.

I met my unofficial win condition when you confirmed I actively disgust you. Smooth sailing from here on out.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

On the bolded, I'm pretty sure I said that I would relent if the Miller was verified, but if not, then I would want them gone. What you're suggesting is saying that I would want to kill a supposed confirmed town power role, that's certainly not the case. I don't see why it's a bad thing to necessarily want to lynch an unconfirmed miller, which is precisely what Blarg and Kawl are.

Did I misunderstand what you meant by:

I am not willing to take the risk of a miller. This can only be bad for town unless you can get verified by a bunch of different people. Even then, I don't want you to make it far.

? Made it sound like you'd want them gone even if they were verified by a bunch of different people.

 

[Karkador]

Not sure how many times I have to state that me and blargs first post(s) were always going to be revealing we were miller. It was not in response to Flux's claim.

So completely disregard the tracker part of your role? Is it a one-shot or something?

But since you continue to press I will say that our name contains some ambivalence in it. Especially Compared to "Ordinary Pair of Lovers" from the example role PM.

And so the only secondary confirmation we get leaves us wondering whether you're good or bad, and you get the Miller Benefit of the Doubt? Nah...

And yea I did. But if that wasn't straightforward enough, I do not expect people to see our pairs name and immediately see us as cleared. At that point I'm counting on me and Blarg being able to contribute enough the old fashioned way to earn a continued stay in the tunnel of love.

I'm not seeing this stunt as an attempt to clear yourself, I'm seeing it as an attempt to clear Flux.

The problem is that if Flux reports an ambivalent name, we let both of you off the hook right now and get nothing in return.

 

[Flame_AC]

Did I misunderstand what you meant by:

? Made it sound like you'd want them gone even if they were verified by a bunch of different people.

I see how you can come to that understanding, so here's what I mean to say:

I don't want a miller making it far in the game unless they have been verified by town and have the backing of town consensus. If I had my choice, I'd probably try and get them verified tonight and give them until like Day 3 to prove their worth. If they haven't helped or have been vague, they're gone. If they play great, then of course I'd want them around, but we don't have anything to go off of which is why I put my policy vote out there. Imagine if I didn't vote miller now and then on Day 3/4/5 or whenever I suddenly say that it's my policy to lynch miller. That would look bad for me and my partner, who isn't really a person who lynches millers, and seem very opportunistic.

 

[Blargonaut]

So completely disregard the tracker part of your role? Is it a one-shot or something?

no

And so the only secondary confirmation we get leaves us wondering whether you're good or bad, and you get the Miller Benefit of the Doubt? Nah...

That's how Millers work

I'm not seeing this stunt as an attempt to clear yourself, I'm seeing it as an attempt to clear Flux.

The problem is that if Flux reports an ambivalent name, we let both of you off the hook right now and get nothing in return.

I'm sorry that Tracking is not good enough for you

Sorry for you

 

[Coppanuva]

That's how Millers work

Did you deduce your role is a miller based on Flux's claim, or was it specifically mentioned in your pm?

 

[Blargonaut]

You shut your mouth. I haven't even started digging into the twisted mind of myself yet.

 

[batsnacks]

I policy vote the miller part, to me, it's dangerous as long as it unconfirmed. Once we get later in the game then people will have actual leads and won't want to waste time going over someone who has seemed town friendly all game. I know a tracker can be valuable, but having someone who registers scum on a cop check is much more dangerous in my opinion. If he can be verified and town consensus is that he's okay, then I'll relent my push.

I don't remember who at the moment, will have to check, but someone else mentioned having a policy for lynching someone who claims Day 1. I don't know if I'm in favor of that yet, especially since it was a power role claim, but I thought it was interesting you bring up my policy lynch but not theirs. (Unless I missed it, in which case, forget this part)

I think it was Rest that policy voted flux/time for the unnecessary claim. The difference between that claim and the blarg/kawl team is that blarg/kawl's claim seemed planned, agreed upon, and reasoned.

So, your policy vote is way more suspicious. You've said like 8 times that if he can be verified then we shouldn't lynch them. Well, it appears to be a fact that there will be ways to verify them and ways for them to help town significantly. It just looks like you want to get rid of them unless "town consensus is that he's okay" in which case you will, reluctantly, relent your push.

 

[Kawl_USC]

So completely disregard the tracker part of your role? Is it a one-shot or something?



And so the only secondary confirmation we get leaves us wondering whether you're good or bad, and you get the Miller Benefit of the Doubt? Nah...




I'm not seeing this stunt as an attempt to clear yourself, I'm seeing it as an attempt to clear Flux.

The problem is that if Flux reports an ambivalent name, we let both of you off the hook right now and get nothing in return.

Wasn't disregarding our tracking ability, it's mainly been the miller part that's under discussion is all. Explained to gorlaky why we included tracker in our claim. And as Blarg said, no it's not limited.

I'm not asking for the MBotD. I was just trying to leverage our role for additional information given how things were playing out. Me and Blarg plan to earn our keep.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Did you deduce your role is a miller based on Flux's claim, or was it specifically mentioned in your pm?

I'm not sure why people are failing to read my post properly or at all. Our claim was not in response to Flux's claim. It was specifically mentioned in our PM and was planned before the game in our lovers musky den.

 

[Flame_AC]

So, your policy vote is way more suspicious. You've said like 8 times that if he can be verified then we shouldn't lynch them. Well, it appears to be a fact that there will be ways to verify them and ways for them to help town significantly. It just looks like you want to get rid of them unless "town consensus is that he's okay" in which case you will, reluctantly, relent your push.

I get what you are talking about, but I've already moved my vote away from the millers and on to someone who is being quiet. Also, has Flux/Time actually agreed to check them tonight?

I just don't want us to move on from them once we're later in the game. Basically, I just want to make sure that we're satisfied with what we get from Blarg/Kawl, if not, then I would bring back up the lynch argument for them.

 

[Karkador]

I'm not sure why people are failing to read my post properly or at all. Our claim was not in response to Flux's claim. It was specifically mentioned in our PM and was planned before the game in our lovers musky den.

"Flux pls confirm" is right in your roleclaim post, how could you possibly say it wasn't in response to that?

 

[Ty4on]

"Flux pls confirm" is right in your roleclaim post, how could you possibly say it wasn't in response to that?

Do I have to reply for other pairs?

To clarify what my sometimes obtuse partner is saying, we originally planned to share all info to get out in front of the miller claim, but we see this as a good opportunity to help verify Flux's claim of a name cop.

My take is the "pls confirm" is a plea to be investigated at night because two minutes later:

Remind me how a Miller helps verify a cop that can't see alignments

Because we haven't revealed the name of our pairing.

 

[Blargonaut]

"Flux pls confirm" is right in your roleclaim post, how could you possibly say it wasn't in response to that?

That was garnish

You're not supposed to eat it

 

[Karkador]

Wasn't disregarding our tracking ability, it's mainly been the miller part that's under discussion is all. Explained to gorlaky why we included tracker in our claim. And as Blarg said, no it's not limited.

Your explanation is more Miller Benefit of the Doubt stuff. "We claimed Tracker early because we're Millers, so we might as well get it out of the way now".

I'm not asking for the MBotD. I was just trying to leverage our role for additional information given how things were playing out. Me and Blarg plan to earn our keep.

Claiming miller and wanting to live = asking for Miller Benefit of the Doubt

 

[Karkador]

Do I have to reply for other pairs?


My take is the "pls confirm" is a plea to be investigated at night because two minutes later:

But it makes no sense.

They know their rolename is ambiguous, so they should be well-aware that there's nothing a Name Cop can do to "confirm" them. How is a Name Cop's ambiguous read of their rolename supposed to tell us they're good or not? They already said, their name is ambiguous (meaning that Miller is NOT in the name).

The point of the move was to "help confirm Flux", not confirm themselves.

 

[Ty4on]

That was garnish

You're not supposed to eat it

Of course you're supposed to eat it. What else is food doing on a plate?

 

[Ty4on]

But it makes no sense.

They know their rolename is ambiguous, so they should be well-aware that there's nothing a Name Cop can do to "confirm" them. The point of the move was to "help confirm Flux", not confirm themselves.

Help confirm that he isn't lying about his role?

 

[Karkador]

Help confirm that he isn't lying about his role?

What's the point of that? If Flux is telling the truth, he's dead on N2, and we continue on, not knowing whether Kawl/Blarg are town or not.

 

[Kawl_USC]

But it makes no sense.

They know their rolename is ambiguous, so they should be well-aware that there's nothing a Name Cop can do to "confirm" them. How is a Name Cop's ambiguous read of their rolename supposed to tell us they're good or not? They already said, their name is ambiguous (meaning that Miller is NOT in the name).

The point of the move was to "help confirm Flux", not confirm themselves.

Which is what we have said from the word go.

Withholding our role name was to have a way to confirm the name cop. But the entire reveal was preplanned and not intended as a way to verify him. That was a last minute adjustment. I'm not sure I can make this much clearer.

 

[Karkador]

Which is what we have said from the word go.

Withholding our role name was to have a way to confirm the name cop. But the entire reveal was preplanned and not intended as a way to verify him. That was a last minute adjustment. I'm not sure I can make this much clearer.

It's clear that it's a lie.

 

[Kawl_USC]

What's the point of that? If Flux is telling the truth, he's dead on N2, and we continue on, not knowing whether Kawl/Blarg are town or not.

The fact that you don't turn your nose up at information that you can easily get?

We understood it wouldn't confirm that we were town. That's essentially a given for a miller. We lost nothing and potentially gained something for town by withholding our name.

 

[Ty4on]

What's the point of that? If Flux is telling the truth, he's dead on N2, and we continue on, not knowing whether Kawl/Blarg are town or not.

But the doctor that won't heal him will save them

I dunno, but that's not really their problem.

 

[Blargonaut]

Your explanation is more Miller Benefit of the Doubt stuff. "We claimed Tracker early because we're Millers, so we might as well get it out of the way now".



Claiming miller and wanting to live = asking for Miller Benefit of the Doubt

You gonna trademark dat

Do you even know how to pro-Town Miller? You a Name-Cop? Stop pretending to do other people's jobs

Look, brah, I get it, so just step up already

or step out

k

Kawl, do something