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Universal Apps including Rise of the Tomb Raider have limitations on Windows Store

Repeating something doesn't make it so.

What proof do we have of this change? What actions have they taken that could reasonably lead to consumer confidence that they are no longer the same company that has made so many attempts to screw us over in the past?

Changing people is nice, but ultimately it doesn't mean much.

They are CONSTANTLY looking for user and customer feedback. This includes everything from Windows to Office to Xbox. They have Insider Previews for just about every single major product that they have, and there is plenty of proof that they are listening to constructive feedback and adjusting their products to fit customer expectation.

And with exception of hardware, they've righted just about every single wrong with Xbox One and transformed it from a disaster into a contender using games and software updates.

If you're honestly telling me that you haven't noticed any of these changes, then you're just not paying attention and you're living in the past.
 

Zedox

Member
They are CONSTANTLY looking for user and customer feedback. This includes everything from Windows to Office to Xbox. They have Insider Previews for just about every single major product that they have, and there is plenty of proof that they are listening to constructive feedback and adjusting their products to fit customer expectation.

And with exception of hardware, they've righted just about every single wrong with Xbox One and transformed it from a disaster into a contender using games and software updates.

If you're honestly telling me that you haven't noticed any of these changes, then you're just not paying attention.

That's basically why you have so many people arguing and saying this is just GFWL all over again. Making assumptions based off of the past while not paying attention to what has changed since and then when people who are more informed into what the company has been doing, try to educate or basically say "it's not like that"...you get rebuttles that only reflect on the past that they know and the not current and the journey since those incidents of the company. As I said in my last post: "But again...I'm on a gaming forum."
 

JaggedSac

Member
Repeating something doesn't make it so.

What proof do we have of this change? What actions have they taken that could reasonably lead to consumer confidence that they are no longer the same company that has made so many attempts to screw us over in the past?

Changing people is nice, but ultimately it doesn't mean much.

They have open sourced a ton of stuff. This alone shows a change of decision making.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I guess the saying "There's a Defense Force for everything" really is true. The defense of MS in this thread really is baffling.

Calling anyone who doesn't immediately jump up at arms at every development a "defense force" is extremely lazy.

This is a forum for discussion. There are typically pro's and cons to everything. Being objective about matters and being able to look at situations on a case by case basis , rather than constantly dredging up the past is a part of healthy discussion .The idea that you either have to be adamantly against MS, or you are a 'defense force' is what's baffling.
 
Calling anyone who doesn't immediately jump up at arms at every development a "defense force" is extremely lazy.

This is a forum for discussion. There are typically pro's and cons to everything. Being objective about matters and being able to look at situations on a case by case basis , rather than constantly dredging up the past is a part of healthy discussion .The idea that you either have to be adamantly against MS, or you are a 'defense force' is what's baffling.

f7FdEdG.jpg
 

jelly

Member
They are CONSTANTLY looking for user and customer feedback. This includes everything from Windows to Office to Xbox. They have Insider Previews for just about every single major product that they have, and there is plenty of proof that they are listening to constructive feedback and adjusting their products to fit customer expectation.

And with exception of hardware, they've righted just about every single wrong with Xbox One and transformed it from a disaster into a contender using games and software updates.

If you're honestly telling me that you haven't noticed any of these changes, then you're just not paying attention and you're living in the past.

While that may be true, it's hard to see them in a good light when they've been watching PC gaming for many years and have released games under UWA without noticeable consideration to the issues of doing so. It's not even lacking foresight, could call it ignorance. Time will tell of course but it seems UWA is bigger than games which are just along for the push. Hopefully I'm wrong and Microsoft are going to do something but unless I've missed something, all quiet at the moment. Early days but again, they've had the time to observe the landscape.
 

Zedox

Member
While that may be true, it's hard to see them in a good light when they've been watching PC gaming for many years and have released games under UWA without noticeable consideration to the issues of doing so. It's not even lacking foresight, could call it ignorance. Time will tell of course but it seems UWA is bigger than games which are just along for the push. Hopefully I'm wrong and Microsoft are going to do something but unless I've missed something, all quiet at the moment. Early days but again, they've had the time to observe the landscape.

True, they did ignore that market (probably because it is small...aka hardcore gaming scene). I actually shouldn't say ignore, but it wasn't put high on the priority list. The hope is that they get to it. Things like SLI/Crossfire though may be dealt with in the form of making games DX12 and having devs build on that platform (where SLI/Crossfire wouldn't be necessary like that). But I do agree that there needs to be changes taken place...GDC sessions is what I would pay attention to if one is interested in what MS is doing on that front.
 
UWAs are shit. For all the people claiming "they've changed, everything's rosy now," I'm not sure why Microsoft has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to PC gaming. This olive branch is yellowed and scrubby, for sure.
 
UWAs are shit. For all the people claiming "they've changed, everything's rosy now," I'm not sure why Microsoft has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to PC gaming. This olive branch is yellowed and scrubby, for sure.

Who's saying everything is rosy now? Most of us have admitted there are still shortcomings with their offerings on the Windows 10 Store that need to be addressed.
 

Trup1aya

Member
While that may be true, it's hard to see them in a good light when they've been watching PC gaming for many years and have released games under UWA without noticeable consideration to the issues of doing so. It's not even lacking foresight, could call it ignorance. Time will tell of course but it seems UWA is bigger than games which are just along for the push. Hopefully I'm wrong and Microsoft are going to do something but unless I've missed something, all quiet at the moment. Early days but again, they've had the time to observe the landscape.

They've definately got a ton of room for improvement of they want UWA's to be adequate for more serious gamers...

But I think it's a pretty safe bet they they have been initially focused on making it worthwhile for app developers. Surely the 'observed' the landscape but given their priorities, I'm not surprised that the hooks for the hardcore gamer isn't there yet.

UWAs are shit. For all the people claiming "they've changed, everything's rosy now," I'm not sure why Microsoft has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to PC gaming. This olive branch is yellowed and scrubby, for sure.

No one says everything is rosy?

Does everything work in absolutes around here?
 

gamz

Member
UWAs are shit. For all the people claiming "they've changed, everything's rosy now," I'm not sure why Microsoft has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to PC gaming. This olive branch is yellowed and scrubby, for sure.

Have you not read the thread?
 
True, they did ignore that market (probably because it is small...aka hardcore gaming scene). I actually shouldn't say ignore, but it wasn't put high on the priority list. The hope is that they get to it. Things like SLI/Crossfire though may be dealt with in the form of making games DX12 and having devs build on that platform (where SLI/Crossfire wouldn't be necessary like that). But I do agree that there needs to be changes taken place...GDC sessions is what I would pay attention to if one is interested in what MS is doing on that front.

When is is GDC? Will be curious to see if this is mentioned. Then again, changes will only come if noise is made about.

I thought the windows store allowed traditional applications anyway? Weren't they working on some type of bridge api to allow easy importing into the Windows Store for .NET and Win32 exe's?
 
Universal Apps are pushing me towards buying the games I like on Xbox.

What's the point of having a SLI setup and a g-sync monitor when I can't use them?

Perfect strategy, Ms. xD
 
Universal Apps are pushing me towards buying the games I like on Xbox.

What's the point of having a SLI setup and a g-sync monitor when I can't use them?

Perfect strategy, Ms. xD

Again, there absolutely are issues, but it doesn't stop you using g-sync and in many cases it won't prevent you leveraging those extra graphics cards. I can confirm 100% now, that gsync works with the UA Rise of the Tomb Raider. Playing a gsync title it usually doesn't matter if you have vsync set to on or off (try it if you don't believe me). Rise shows the Gsync overlay if you turn it on when you load the game so long as Gsync is set to work on windowed games in Nvidia control panel.

It WILL prevent you using durantesque fixes, certain overlays, certain mods, and other stuff that you may be used to and that are definitely something that elevates PC gaming over console gaming.

We're losing that, at no gain to ourselves. But g-sync and multi GPU? One isn't a problem now, and the other won't be a problem in many cases once DX12 titles start to hit, and the majority of the games that will *only* be available as UAs will be DX12 titles. If you think Quantum Break won't support multi gpus, then I say you don't know Remedy.

Sure it might not support them at launch, but then that's a pretty standard situation for Nvidia's SLI no?
 

Zedox

Member
When is is GDC? Will be curious to see if this is mentioned. Then again, changes will only come if noise is made about.

I thought the windows store allowed traditional applications anyway? Weren't they working on some type of bridge api to allow easy importing into the Windows Store for .NET and Win32 exe's?

March 14th - 18th. They are working on the Centennial bridge now (special developers are testing them).

Again, there absolutely are issues, but it doesn't stop you using g-sync and in many cases it won't prevent you leveraging those extra graphics cards. I can confirm 100% now, that gsync works with the UA Rise of the Tomb Raider. Playing a gsync title it usually doesn't matter if you have vsync set to on or off (try it if you don't believe me). Rise shows the Gsync overlay if you turn it on when you load the game so long as Gsync is set to work on windowed games in Nvidia control panel.

It WILL prevent you using durantesque fixes, certain overlays, certain mods, and other stuff that you may be used to and that are definitely something that elevates PC gaming over console gaming.

We're losing that, at no gain to ourselves. But g-sync and multi GPU? One isn't a problem now, and the other won't be a problem in many cases once DX12 titles start to hit, and the majority of the games that will *only* be available as UAs will be DX12 titles. If you think Quantum Break won't support multi gpus, then I say you don't know Remedy.

Sure it might not support them at launch, but then that's a pretty standard situation for Nvidia's SLI no?

Thanks for the gsync clarification. I thought the same about DX12 and SLI/Crossfire (they won't be an issue with time...and that may be why MS didn't really offer anything for them off gate).
 
It's easy to be critical than understandable. lol.
Companies deserve criticism, not understanding. Hoping and waiting and assuming things will get better does nothing for the consumer while complaining and criticism bring change. It's not about what is easy, it's about doing what makes sense for my rights and interests.

Releasing games on UWA is bad for me as a PC gamer because it creates more restrictions (for me) than benefits (for me). Why, as a consumer, I should give a shit about the benefits for MS or wait and see and pray they'll figure their shit out is beyond me. It certainly isn't because of a lack of intelligence as you so smugly implied.
 

Zedox

Member
Companies deserve criticism, not understanding. Hoping and waiting and assuming things will get better does nothing for the consumer while complaining and criticism bring change. It's not about what is easy, it's about doing what makes sense for my rights and interests.

Releasing games on UWA is bad for me as a PC gamer because it creates more restrictions (for me) than benefits (for me). Why, as a consumer, I should give a shit about the benefits for MS or wait and see and pray they'll figure their shit out is beyond me. It certainly isn't because of a lack of intelligence as you so smugly implied.

No one is saying that a company shouldn't be criticized. No one is telling you why you should give a shit about what benefits MS. If you get that impression, then you are definitely taking it the wrong way. If you, as a consumer, are asking why isn't a company making a product how you want it and not understand why it may not work that way, to me is ignorant.

Example: Why doesn't Google make their apps for Windows Phone? Windows Phone users have been asking it for years! Has Google budged and made their apps available? No. So I should just keep bitching and moaning on a forum (not sayin that you don't have the right to nor feel that way) and when someone informs me of why Google doesn't do it (not saying that you should change your feelings, but to understand why they don't do it), I should just ignore that and tell those people who are just informing me of why they would and write them off?

Nobody is telling you to not have your feelings towards it, nobody is telling you to not be cautious of said service. But when people debate about a topic and they don't give pertanent information to the discussion and the people who do have more information try to give them that understanding so that the discussion can revolve around what is pertanent...that's wrong? Like I said and others have said, we all know that there are limitations and it is alright to be cautious and not want to deal with said service, but it is ignorant when someone debates someone else with information that doesn't have to do with the actual subject when they aren't relatable at their core and the other person tries to give said person information so that the debate can be. Not saying that there aren't similarities or overlaps but they are two different things.

Then there is the actual waiting game because there's not enough information out there for anyone (including myself) to know the full intentions of how the service will change (but you can make educational guesses with information). People are writing off UWA as it is right now, MS hasn't said anything about it since people actually started caring for UWA on certain games. MS is about to say more stuff at GDC, if one wants to be informed, one should look at that and at the //build/ conference.
 
Calling anyone who doesn't immediately jump up at arms at every development a "defense force" is extremely lazy.

This is a forum for discussion. There are typically pro's and cons to everything. Being objective about matters and being able to look at situations on a case by case basis , rather than constantly dredging up the past is a part of healthy discussion .The idea that you either have to be adamantly against MS, or you are a 'defense force' is what's baffling.

Excellent post
 

LordRaptor

Member
Have you not read the thread?

The thread doesn't have any information for people that consider UWAs to be shit other than people suggesting MS might change them at some point in the future, nor does it provide any evidence of things MS have done regarding PC gaming to have earnt back trust, other than some users making it seem super unfair to hold a corporation responsible for prior actions.
 

Ushay

Member
Calling anyone who doesn't immediately jump up at arms at every development a "defense force" is extremely lazy.

This is a forum for discussion. There are typically pro's and cons to everything. Being objective about matters and being able to look at situations on a case by case basis , rather than constantly dredging up the past is a part of healthy discussion .The idea that you either have to be adamantly against MS, or you are a 'defense force' is what's baffling.

Clearly, there are many that do no wish for 'healthy' discussion. They'd prefer a toxic environment for anything concerning MS,
 

Justinh

Member
I'd love to see them try this with a multiplayer title.

I think it is fair to assume Window Store's refund policy is in line with Xbox's.

can you get refunds easily with the Xbox Store? I've never tried.

I do know that I didn't like the Win10 version of RotTR so I requested a refund from support later that day and except for them having a hard time "finding my order," there was no friction at all. It was just all "okay I found your order (seriously took them like an hour even though I gave them order numbers) and I'm processing your refund now" got my money back in my bank the next day.
I wonder if the ease of getting refunds on steam had anything to do with how "easy" it was to get a refund in the Xbox store in windows 10 (or whatever the hell it's called).
 
this thread reads really badly. there seems to be people saying ms doesn't change anything and other people saying that might not be the case. . I personally have only seen MS change things, from user feedback, this gen.

is this argument about change only coming from GFWL? I will stick to my wait and see approach instead of losing my shiz
 

Trup1aya

Member
The thread doesn't have any information for people that consider UWAs to be shit other than people suggesting MS might change them at some point in the future, nor does it provide any evidence of things MS have done regarding PC gaming to have earnt back trust, other than some users making it seem super unfair to hold a corporation responsible for prior actions.

So, it's ok to complain about the past. It's ok to complain about current UWA limitations. But the only discussion of future prospects should be under the assumption that UWA will ALWAYS have the same limitations they have now despite MS' more recent tendancies to improve their software and policies as part of a long term plan and/or in response to consumer feedback

Got it.

can you get refunds easily with the Xbox Store? I've never tried.

I do know that I didn't like the Win10 version of RotTR so I requested a refund from support later that day and except for them having a hard time "finding my order," there was no friction at all. It was just all "okay I found your order (seriously took them like an hour even though I gave them order numbers) and I'm processing your refund now" got my money back in my bank the next day.
I wonder if the ease of getting refunds on steam had anything to do with how "easy" it was to get a refund in the Xbox store in windows 10 (or whatever the hell it's called).

I've only wanted a refund once, but they immediately gave me one for COD:AW.
 

Synth

Member
I wonder if the ease of getting refunds on steam had anything to do with how "easy" it was to get a refund in the Xbox store in windows 10 (or whatever the hell it's called).

I'd doubt that. I'm pretty sure EA's Origin offering refunds was a driving factor though.
 
a friend of mine is playing Rise of the Tomb Raider bought in the Windows Store. The game crashed a few minutes ago and after restarting it, the last autosave state is three hours old.
How is that possible?

I do have the steam version and the game does autosaving every time you get something, you reach a further area when climbing something, ...literally always.

Does this have to do with the virtual machine like sandbox the game is running in? Really weird.
 
a friend of mine is playing Rise of the Tomb Raider bought in the Windows Store. The game crashed a few minutes ago and after restarting it, the last autosave state is three hours old.
How is that possible?

I do have the steam version and the game does autosaving every time you get something, you reach a further area when climbing something, ...literally always.

Does this have to do with the virtual machine like sandbox the game is running in? Really weird.

I bought the Windows Store version too. It crashed quite a few times. 3 or 4 times in different areas, it actually didn't load in sections of the map, stuff if you didn't know it/look at videos you wouldn't know why you couldn't get through. (Example, the optional tomb in the rail yard didn't load in the rail track so you couldn't push the cart through. Also, some of the posts with arrow rope on them wouldn't load in the rope).

I also finished the game without a single Xbox achievement unlocking. Even though the game took minutes to load due to the wait to connect my Xbox profile each time.

I actually didn't think I'd enjoy the game so much, so bought it for Steam as well. Start to finish, no bugs, no crashes.

The game ran in 4K through Steam at twice the frame rate it did through the Windows store. (It played silky smooth at 1080p).

The patches also came a few days to a week later on the Windows store as well.

We won't have the choice for future games obviously, but I've seen enough to never go back. 'Proper' games through the Windows Store are simply a joke.
 
a friend of mine is playing Rise of the Tomb Raider bought in the Windows Store. The game crashed a few minutes ago and after restarting it, the last autosave state is three hours old.
How is that possible?

I do have the steam version and the game does autosaving every time you get something, you reach a further area when climbing something, ...literally always.

Does this have to do with the virtual machine like sandbox the game is running in? Really weird.
To clarify: he even used manual saving and even this is/was gone :(

@Phreakuency: oh well, does not sound good as well :/
 
To clarify: he even used manual saving and even this is/was gone :(

@Phreakuency: oh well, does not sound good as well :/

I've had none of the issues Phreakuency mentions on Tomb Raider. It sounds like the kind of glitches a fraction of people suffer in any major PC release.

The points that are uniform though, that patches take days longer to hit the windows store version than the Steam version is of course true and definitely a major annoyance that I don't see going away (certification). Then we're still left with the issue of injector mods not working, preventing most frame counter apps and preventing third party mods that fix issues the game ships with (think Durante) or that add support for things that weren't even really thought of at the time (think the tool that lets you change the aspect ratio of Silent Hill 3 on PC so that it runs properly in widescreen). Or heck, third party patches for games that have been abandoned.

I'm sure a lot of people read that list and think nothing of it, which is fair enough, but I've used a lot of tools and mods like that, and it's always been one of the strengths of PC gaming. UA apps knee cap that, which is a major shame.
 
So, no Freesync for Windows Store apps? No modding communities? I hope this initiative is an abject failure so that there's no chance it pushes better services out of the market.

That, or Microsoft pulls their collective head out of their ass and fix as much as they can.
 

Spirited

Mine is pretty and pink
Calling anyone who doesn't immediately jump up at arms at every development a "defense force" is extremely lazy.

This is a forum for discussion. There are typically pro's and cons to everything. Being objective about matters and being able to look at situations on a case by case basis , rather than constantly dredging up the past is a part of healthy discussion .The idea that you either have to be adamantly against MS, or you are a 'defense force' is what's baffling.

The pros goes as far as, it's easier to port multiplatform apps?
Everything else is cons, at least for consumers they are probably pros for microsoft like locking down their product so that consumers get less choice.
And if I'm going to be perfectly honest here I don't care what pros there is for Microsoft in doing it this way, I'm a consumer and all I'll care about is the end product and if it's up to snuff with what is expected in this day and age on an open platform like the PC.

Why should I support and sugarcoat them providing a service which is for the most part years behind most storefronts/clients on the PC and act like their anti-open system philosophy will be good just because they decided that a closed system would be better for them just like apple's.

and it's not like we can say that we as PC gamers should have trust in microsoft after their earlier ventures which has all failed and to be perfectly honest they seem to have learned nothing from.
Never do they try to do something the PC gamers want, more like holding games "hostage" to get people invested in their busted systems that more than anything just try to go against what PC gamers expect.
 

Trup1aya

Member
The pros goes as far as, it's easier to port multiplatform apps?
Everything else is cons, at least for consumers they are probably pros for microsoft like locking down their product so that consumers get less choice.
And if I'm going to be perfectly honest here I don't care what pros there is for Microsoft in doing it this way, I'm a consumer and all I'll care about is the end product and if it's up to snuff with what is expected in this day and age on an open platform like the PC.

Why should I support and sugarcoat them providing a service which is for the most part years behind most storefronts/clients on the PC and act like their anti-open system philosophy will be good just because they decided that a closed system would be better for them just like apple's.

and it's not like we can say that we as PC gamers should have trust in microsoft after their earlier ventures which has all failed and to be perfectly honest they seem to have learned nothing from.
Never do they try to do something the PC gamers want, more like holding games "hostage" to get people invested in their busted systems that more than anything just try to go against what PC gamers expect.

I think your first mistake is assuming that all consumers view the closed/open debate the same way you do. The developers who made fortunes within Apple's closed ecosystem aren't complaining. And neither are the millions of people who are downloading and enjoying the games. There are plenty of people who just want to download and play games as they are. And developers who just want access to these people.

Also, I don't understand how you can say they have an anti-open philosophy. Do all of the other clients suddenly stop working because the Win10 store exists? In reality, the Win10 store is just another option in a sea of them.

Granted, UWA's currently have technical limitations that are unacceptable to many PC gamers. IF they can overcome these issues and fill the store with compelling content, they'll have an opportunity to provide their consumers a unified experience across any platforms they own. They'll be able to provide better cross play integration than we currently see between PC and consoles. Throught the pre-installed app on all MS products, developers would have access to the largest installed base in the world.

I'm not saying that MS should be trusted given there history. I'm not saying with certainty that they won't screw up big time. What I'm sayin is that if they execute properly, it's clear that this endevour could lead to positive experiences for their customers.

PS. How is choosing to distribute your own products 'holding hostage'? They create the content yet are required to let it benefit a 3rd party platform?
 

Spirited

Mine is pretty and pink
PS. How is choosing to distribute your own products 'holding hostage'? They create the content yet are required to let it benefit a 3rd party platform?

Were the 3rd party games released with GFWL not hold "hostage"?
Those games that you have to go through big hurdles to get working if the devs didn't update them?

Seriously?

and why the hell should we settle for a closed system just because there is millions of people in on another system/market entirely who has no choice so they take the things as it is (The people buying stuff in apples closed system).
Would you be ok if steam decided one day that any modifications of .exe's should no longer work and throw in a hefty DRM on everything (Steamworks is light in comparison)?
Like come on, if they adress my issues then I have no problem but in this thread it's almost only (what it feels like) people who are saying we shouldn't critiscise them for these things or relay feedback about it but instead we should just wait and see, hope for the best or deal with it.
If you say that their current strategy goes against what makes the PC an open enviroment then you get called out?
It feels like a defense force who somehow decides that what's good for the corporation is more important than what the consumers get and if you feel it's bad then you're wrong as said before but because other consumers are fine being treated worse.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Were the 3rd party games released with GFWL not hold "hostage"?
Those games that you have to go through big hurdles to get working if the devs didn't update them?

Seriosuly?

But this is not GFWL and there are no hostages...

I mean, can we not talk about the subject at hand?
 
But this is not GFWL and there are no hostages...

I mean, can we not talk about the subject at hand?



Games exclusives to their store because they know that otherwise no one would support such a lackluster store and many have lost their trust after GFWL.

At least, GFWL games could be bought on other stores.



Try elaborating instead of drive by posting?


Sure:
GFWL allowed you to access game files.
GFWL wasnt tied to one OS only.
GFWL allowed for games to be bought elsewhere (Steam/Amazon/Others digital stores)
GFWL allowed for 3rd party programs to be used, like FRAPS, Rivatuner and such.
GFWL didnt forced your games to run in a certain way, like borderless fullscreen.
GFWL supported SLI.


Should I keep going on ?
 

Spirited

Mine is pretty and pink
But this is not GFWL and there are no hostages...

I mean, can we not talk about the subject at hand?

I'm saying that these games will probably have a hard time if Microsoft decides to change their strategy once again.
With all these arbitrary UWAs getting them to work in future iterations of windows if microsoft decides to drop their push, as that's the precedent they have showed with GFWL.

Let's not argue that GFWL hasn't soured many peoples opinions of microsoft on PC.
 

Hektor

Member
I think your first mistake is assuming that all consumers view the closed/open debate the same way you do. The developers who made fortunes within Apple's closed ecosystem aren't complaining. And neither are the millions of people who are downloading and enjoying the games. There are plenty of people who just want to download and play games as they are. And developers who just want access to these people.

A product for those already exists. It's called "Xbox One".
If you take away the open nature of the PC, you'll be left with a console with slightly prettier graphics. The open nature of the platform is THE reason to play on PC.
 

Trup1aya

Member
A product for those already exists. It's called "Xbox One".
If you take away the open nature of the PC, you'll be left with a console with slightly prettier graphics. The open nature of the platform is THE reason to play on PC.

Who is taking away the open nature of the PC?

I'm saying that these games will probably have a hard time if Microsoft decides to change their strategy once again.
With all these arbitrary UWAs getting them to work in future iterations of windows if microsoft decides to drop their push, as that's the precedent they have showed with GFWL.

Let's not argue that GFWL hasn't soured many peoples opinions of microsoft on PC.

Are saying they are gonna make UWA's not work? They are kinda basing the future of the company on it so...
 

Spirited

Mine is pretty and pink
Are saying they are gonna make UWA's not work? They are kinda basing the future of the company on it so...

I'm saying that these games will probably have a hard time if Microsoft decides to change their strategy once again.
With all these arbitrary UWAs getting them to work in future iterations of windows if microsoft decides to drop their push, as that's the precedent they have showed with GFWL.

Let's not argue that GFWL hasn't soured many peoples opinions of microsoft on PC.

I just don't know what you're getting at. Does GFWL games without patches work fine on newer iterations of windows?
Does old games at all work flawlessly without community patches on newer iterations of windows?
Now what if you can't modify the game and make community patches or microsoft drops their push into the PC market?
What am I supposed to do with my *worthless* games then if I can't even fix them?
 
Who is taking away the open nature of the PC?
So if you can't extrapolate what MS is doing right now to a potential future where "legacy" apps are no longer supported, you trust MS more than some of us.

They are not a competing market if they're the only market in which a game is available.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Sure:
GFWL allowed you to access game files.
GFWL wasnt tied to one OS only.
GFWL allowed for games to be bought elsewhere (Steam/Amazon/Others digital stores)
GFWL allowed for 3rd party programs to be used, like FRAPS, Rivatuner and such.
GFWL didnt forced your games to run in a certain way, like borderless fullscreen.
GFWL supported SLI.


Should I keep going on ?

Slight corrections - GFWL was originally tied to Windows Vista along with DX10 (reminds me of what's happening now) and then later changed stance. This was also true with being able to interface with other digital stores. Everything else is on point.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I just don't know what you're getting at. Does GFWL games without patches work fine on newer iterations of windows?
Does old games at all work flawlessly without community patches on newer iterations of windows?
Now what if you can't modify the game and make community patches or microsoft drops their push into the PC market?
What am I supposed to do with my *worthless* games then if I can't even fix them?

Again, this isn't GFWL. UWAs aren't a gaming centric concept. It's the philosophy behind which they plan to monetize their OS. They aren't just going to pack it up in a few years...

So if you can't extrapolate what MS is doing right now to a potential future where "legacy" apps are no longer supported, you trust MS more than some of us.

They are not a competing market if they're the only market in which a game is available.

Oh, the slippery slope fallacy again. Also, your definition of competition is flawed. Two stores don't have to have identical products to be in competion. They just need to be targeting the same consumer spend.

Businesses have been using exclusives for competitive advantages since money was a thing. That's like saying tesla isn't in competition with other car manufactures because they don't sell cars through dealers.

... Microsoft?

How so? Have they limited your ability to download content outside of the Win10 store? If not, then how have they closed PC?
 
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