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Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I'm not saying it will happen for sure, but the market today is very different from the market back then. Not really an apples to apples comparison. But yeah, look at the last page, I raised some contradictions to some of these claims.So guys, the rumors about an upgraded PS1 in the late 90s... What happened, what's the lesson here?
These are the claims he's made so far:
His claims are outlandish; none of those sources that leaked the news to Patrick said anything concrete about PS4.5, especially about a device that's promising 4k gaming at an affordable price this year. Not to mention its supposedly launching around the same time as PSVR, which will have its sales negatively impacted by an enhanced PS4 SKU.
Insider status doesn't doesn't mean anything, as evidenced by other high-profile "insiders" who peddled false info (FamousMortimer and CBOAT).
DealWithIt
Member
I put together a PC for $1200. It runs games at 1440 P quite competently. But my 980 TI would not do 4K games much beyond settings PS4 uses for its 1080p graphics. I'm not sure how you could build an add-on, or release a new affordable PS4 that would outperform my $1200 gaming PC.
Hmmm, yea we are getting into semantics at this point. I think I get your view on it... if say a PS1 game works on PS2, then you could say it's forwards compatible as a result. I don't really like this definition as it implies that PS1 software is programmed to account for the changes in specification brought about by the PS2 (or even emulators on PC). This is quite obviously not the case.. much like how a pre-RAM cart Saturn game like X-Men Children of the Atom aren't programmed to gracefully account for the possible configurations of Saturn / Saturn + 1MB / Saturn + 4MB... any game produced prior to the cart (and nearly all after too) would simply not think to even check for its existence. The stock Saturn is the only possibility the have factored in, and when you put the cart in, you're still just running a stock Saturn, as it's never accessed. A PS4.5 on the other hand would be able to directly affect the performance of games created before it existence was known.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
#TEAMZOETIS
READY FOR THIS W
READY FOR THIS W
If this is the console future, I'm completely OK with it. I like the idea of not being stuck with 5+ year old tech at the end of a generation.
What sucks is that consoles have always had unused expansion ports on the bottoms until last generation, yet now I wish PS4 had something to allow an upgrade box instead of requiring a new console for those who wish to upgrade. If we're going to have upgradable consoles for now on, hopefully they include expansion slots again.
What sucks is that consoles have always had unused expansion ports on the bottoms until last generation, yet now I wish PS4 had something to allow an upgrade box instead of requiring a new console for those who wish to upgrade. If we're going to have upgradable consoles for now on, hopefully they include expansion slots again.
But the thing is that, if this is not releasing this year (and I don't believe it will, it makes 0 sense), the rumor is really nothing that far from normality. Sony is working on what's happening after PS4 probably since it launched. That's what happened with every prior console too.
If they release something on 2018 and instead of naming it 'ps5', it is backwards compatible ps4+, it's not really something strange or unpredicable. 5 years is the normal span of a generation prior to the last one, that was an exception.
I mean, we (the community) had a consensus before launch that the move to x86 was made to make the ecosystem futureproof and iterate from it in a healthy timeframe.
David Ricardo
Member
The fact that 4k tv exists doesn't affect at all the content you play in your 40 inch TV. But game developers have limited resources. If they spend time optimizing a PS4.5 version of a game, that's less time they have to optimize the PS4 version of the game. And, in the long run, as the PS4.5 user base expands, less and less development resources are going to be used in PS4 games. So they will be worse and worse until they stop developing games for it. So those cases are not comparable at all.
The moment a PS4 successor is launched, a countdown starts that leads to crappy ports and, eventually, system obsolescence.
pixellated_man
Member
Anyway, this thing could be nothing more than a back up plan for Sony, should Microsoft's rumored Xbox 1.5 takes off and begins to eat into market share. I think they will almost certainly wait for Microsoft to make the first move, then depending on the results either release this upgrade or just ride out a couple of years and release the ps5.
Honestly, Sony are not dumb and with the position they are in right now they don't have to make risky moves that could alienate a part of their customer base.
Honestly, Sony are not dumb and with the position they are in right now they don't have to make risky moves that could alienate a part of their customer base.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah I don't know. I feel like the "4k" thing Sony is doing here is just a branding term. It will likely do 4k blu-ray and have a built in upscaler for games to go to 4k resolution but not natively.
In other words pack in a 770 equivalent to help with VR and devs who are already hitting a wall with PS4 hardware, and advertise the hell out of the 4k blu-ray ability and "4k games" (upscaled)
I could see that working nicely
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I'm not so sure about that. They revealed the PS4 before Xbox One without worrying about losing a competitive advantage. If they believe it is the right move they should do it.
$399 with a two-year contract.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm thinking you're right; whatever Kotaku caught wind of is probablg going to end up being the PS5.So guys, the rumors about an upgraded PS1 in the late 90s... What happened, what's the lesson here?
scoobs
Member
I'd guess they want to get enough power inside of the PS4 itself to run VR at a comparable level to high end oculus and vive gear. Thats got to be the real motivation. That and they're seeing the console landscape change into something akin to the mobile market.
You should have just replied with your avatar lol
I mean, I see your point, but is an upgraded PS4 really worth it? Are games on the PS4 really struggling that much compared to PC to take the risk? An upgraded PS4 could potentially hurt some customers.
You misunderstand me, I think that we agree
If the software was programmed to run on a PS1, thinks it's running on a PS1, but is actually running on a PS2, then that would simply be backwards compatibility. Now if the software was programmed to run on a PS1, but was also programmed to detect if it was running on a PS2, and then use the improved PS2 specifications to enhance the game (I realise this is probably not realistically possible) then it would be forwards compatible.You bring up a good point about a PS4.5 being able to improve the performance of games which weren't programmed to run on PS4.5 hardware. I guess that's theoretically possible, but I'd imagine that it would be unlikely to occur in practice without the original game getting patched to account for the new hardware. It's quite likely that things would break otherwise. Still, looking at it from the software side, software (which hadn't been patched) that thinks it's running on a PS4 would just be backwards compatible. Software which was programmed to take into account both hardware configurations would be forwards compatible.
NullPointer
Member
This only makes sense to me when its framed in the context of VR and its need for a locked 60fps baseline.
But otherwise a lack of power is not the problem with consoles, regardless of what PC gamers like to put forward. Putting a fuckton more hardware into the machine won't stop devs from pushing beyond their limits and releasing buggy, incomplete games in the rush to set the new bar for teh shiny.
Limits are a good thing when devs know they can take the time to find what works and optimize to known hardware. Get rid of generations and you'll see more brute forcing and excuses that "it works better" on the newest revision of the console regardless.
But otherwise a lack of power is not the problem with consoles, regardless of what PC gamers like to put forward. Putting a fuckton more hardware into the machine won't stop devs from pushing beyond their limits and releasing buggy, incomplete games in the rush to set the new bar for teh shiny.
Limits are a good thing when devs know they can take the time to find what works and optimize to known hardware. Get rid of generations and you'll see more brute forcing and excuses that "it works better" on the newest revision of the console regardless.
Mushroom021
Member
Nobody has said all gaming it could be the lowest tier game. Patrick klepek said on twitter the 4k is specifically in reference to gaming.
scoobs
Member
Nobody with iphone 5s and 6 are complaining about the 6s existing. I think the model could work as long as game engines continue to scale to allow for old PS4s to continue running the games at 1080/30. It is at least exciting that sony and microsoft are considering shaking up this oldschool mentality of "generations."
Obliterator
Member
Eh I dont think it hurts much of anything. I mostly think thats boogie man talk. Giving consumers the option on the market wouldn't hurt much and give Sony a 2nd more expensive sku to sell at retail.
But you never know, this theoretical system could also end up being the PS5
30yearsofhurt
Member
To run the same games at 4K you'd need a 300% power increase.
What AMD CPU+GPU chip can do that?
Not happening.
Well I'd be happy enough to upgrade if all it did was allow UHD BluRay movie playback (and stream 4k with HDR from Amazon, Netflix etc) and put in rear connectors for the PSVR.
An actual improvement in processing power would be even better. And certainly I prefer this approach to an addon.
An actual improvement in processing power would be even better. And certainly I prefer this approach to an addon.
scoobs
Member
I have an i7-4790k and a 980ti and can hardly get a consistent 30fps in any new game at 4k. That's $1000 right there. What console at an affordable price is reaching this performance level?
Well, smartphones aren't exactly a like for like comparison to consoles. I don't have a problem with this as long as games are still being supported well on OG PS4, but as you can see in this thread, some do.
Indeed, I see a PS5 releasing sooner than expected being the more likely scenario.
-hadouken
Member
There's risk in them failing to offer a system that's genuinely capable of VR.
This product makes sense - it's like the Xbox Elite controller. Not for everyone, though very successful for a segment of the market. Importantly it doesn't impact negatively on the original PS4.PandaShake
Member
PS5 has a nice ring to it. It sounds so futuristic, can't believe we're at 5. If they dev now, a year or two later would have PS4 at 4 or 5 years old. Sounds about the right time.
The iPhone has sold over 500 million units and all android phones together is probably a bigger number. Consoles do about 100M each gen if they are super successful. this shit is idiotic and will only split the console community.
PS4.5 if it exists will certainly not run The Division at 4k 30 fps, it's just not going to happen.
More than likely, this is an incremental upgrade to the HDMI to enable 4k movies and videos. It makes sense considering the supposed upgraded media media player for VR. 4k movies are on the way and a lot of VR content is high res. Right now there is currently 1 device out on the market that will play 4k blue rays, and its standalone $350 bucks, its not going to fly off the shelves. If people known that the PS4 plays games and 4k blu rays, they will be likely to purchase it. Lets not forget Sony also has movies to re-release on 4k as well.
More than likely, this is an incremental upgrade to the HDMI to enable 4k movies and videos. It makes sense considering the supposed upgraded media media player for VR. 4k movies are on the way and a lot of VR content is high res. Right now there is currently 1 device out on the market that will play 4k blue rays, and its standalone $350 bucks, its not going to fly off the shelves. If people known that the PS4 plays games and 4k blu rays, they will be likely to purchase it. Lets not forget Sony also has movies to re-release on 4k as well.
Obliterator
Member
Maybe not phones but consoles are quite literal the only peace of consumer technology on a 5+ year lifespan without a refresh.
I mean cars, phones, tablets, microwaves, refrigerators, TVs, PCs, GPUs, CPUs, etc. etc. All have yearly or bi yearly refresh rates.
matrix-cat
Member
It's all too predictable. All official pre-release footage will obviously come from the PS4.5 versions, with nothing shown of the old PS4 versions nothing more than a footnote until the Digital Foundry article after release. OG PS4 versions get worse and worse as time goes on, Sony doesn't care. Eventually they give Naughty Dog or Guerrilla special dispensation to work on a PS4.5 Exclusive, because what's stopping them? At some point OG PS4 versions are just borderline unplayable, but when Apple sees no repercussions from breaking games every time they update iOS, Sony and Microsoft will get away with it too.
This is a 'give them an inch and they'll take a mile' kind of industry. Imagine the $50 Season Pass worst case scenario of console hardware upgrades, and there's our future in like 5-10 years.
I can't see it splitting things as long as new games continue on being playable on both the old and new model. This will move push things into "the PlayStation platform" with a closer overal number of units to iPhone (as you said in your post) in comparison to a single PlayStation console user base.
Compatibility is going to be what makes or breaks this. The general audience should already be used to a newer (smaller) model of a console releasing before the true successor anyway -- it has been the case for almost 20 years now.
Obliterator
Member
You know this is kind of true to me as well. Its one of the costs of doing quicker iterations, you lose that special feeling you get when talking about a console. Like when you look back on the SNES, and the PS2, and the 360 and talk about their library. Its a cool element.
With faster iterative hardware sure you stay closer to the leading edge in tech but you also lose a bit of that special something a long lasting dedicated piece of hardware has. Its an interesting thing to think about for sure.
You misunderstand me, I think that we agree
You bring up a good point about a PS4.5 being able to improve the performance of games which weren't programmed to run on PS4.5 hardware. I guess that's theoretically possible, but I'd imagine that it would be unlikely to occur in practice without the original game getting patched to account for the new hardware. It's quite likely that things would break otherwise. Still, looking at it from the software side, software (which hadn't been patched) that thinks it's running on a PS4 would just be backwards compatible. Software which was programmed to take into account both hardware configurations would be future compatible.
Yea, seems like I must have misunderstood you and we actually agree in general.
I don't think the PS4.5 running games better would break things though. The games would generally have a framerate cap (either 30 or 60 fps) and would suffer performance dips under that target. The PS4.5 would generally prevent this from happing, resulting in a consistent framerate. The game would require patches to for example unlock a 30fps cap to allow the game to run at 60fps on the new hardware, or to increase the resolution in something like Star Wars Battlefront, but performance gains should apply automatically in most cases. You can see this happen on occasion when the XB1 plays a 360 game, and the more powerful GPU causes some games to run at more consistent framerates than they did on the original hardware (Fallout 3 is a notable example). This also applies in reverse, when the weakass CPU struggles in areas, bringing the performance down... the games run worse, but don't break. There are few games these days that require a very specific performance level to be maintained in order to work (most of them are probably fighters).
Abinash117
Member
At that point you might as well call it a PS5. Going from 1080p and 4k is no joke, and how see it they would have to redesign the PS to even get to 4k gaming. It is not just putting in an upgrade GPU and CPU, and consoles aren't PCs. They all are pretty damn customized to my knowledge. Unless Sony made the PS4 easily upgradable for them; I don't see this making much sense. I think, like what others have said is more like a more advanced revision like the Elite and slim models. It would be capable of doing 4k videos/movies and run some PSVR games on 4k, and that's it.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Haha, i think it sums up how things are going to be from now on.
This, to me, is the only scenario that could fit the supposed timeline of coming out this year. A reasonably priced incremental PS4.5 with native 4K support for AAA games could happen, but not for a while.
wapplew
Member
I have no problem for a stop gap machine between generation, but I need to know what's going forward.
How will this effect PS5?
iOS model sucks because dev will aim lowest spec and build game around that. Which mean PS5, PS5.5 will stuck at cross gen game forever.
That's my only problem with this idea.
How will this effect PS5?
iOS model sucks because dev will aim lowest spec and build game around that. Which mean PS5, PS5.5 will stuck at cross gen game forever.
That's my only problem with this idea.
Isn't that the definition of an early adopter lol?