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[kenta]

Patrick made a good point in his Q&A video that Sony is likely closely watching threads like this and gauging reactions, so I wanted to put my two cents out there:

I'm not against the idea of iterative consoles in concept, but I feel like doing it *now* of all times is perilous at best and a bait-and-switch at worst. As tons of people have said, launching PSVR in the same time frame as an iterative hardware update seems like a gigantic case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. It's hard to process how that could be pulled off successfully. You're asking your passionate and loyal audience to spend $399 minimum on a rad headset that is the fulfillment of years of hype and decades of wishing... which will then immediately feel outdated when they're asked to spend another >$399 on an entirely new console? How would that not engender resentment and be a total wet blanket?

Perhaps the iPad business model seems appealing, but look at the trend of iPad sales... When faced with a device that is super expensive and is outdated relatively quickly, people begin to realize that hey, maybe that device isn't as important as I thought it was, and maybe I can live without it, especially if this is what happens when I buy into it. At least that's what my thought process has been like.

Again, I would be open to this idea if it were presented this way from the start and if I knew what I was getting into. But to spring this in the middle of a generation that has otherwise been signaled as traditional seems like it would be getting off on the wrong foot.

I would be curious to hear some candid thoughts on this concept from the developers that have been briefed... Do they feel like this is a good idea? Do they think Sony is doing it right? Etc.

But right now I'm in Thumbs Down mode.

Edit: and of course the discussion in the thread circles back to my same thinking points in the time it takes me to write it. Nothing to see here...

 

[Obliterator]

At what res are they locking in at on 60fps though? That's the question. 1440p?

Im assuming 1080p. It is still incredibly difficult for me to imagine a console that could do real legit 1440p or 4k on AAA games. I would LOVE to be surprised but if they deliver a machine that can give a nice boost to graphics at 1080p and lock games to 60fps I would be all over it.

4k would be incredible and mind blowing but I can't see it happening unless that new Polaris chip is just a major breakthrough

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Patrick made a good point in his Q&A video that Sony is likely closely watching threads like this and gauging reactions

He said that? That doesn't makes sense when he's already said they have hardware being made and documents out there. You don't make that sort of investment/commitment then gauge reactions, surely!?

 

[-Horizon-]

He said that? That doesn't makes sense when he's already said they have hardware being made and documents out there. You don't make that sort of investment/commitment then gauge reactions, surely!?

At most they can push back the official announcement and release date.

 

[onQ123]

I just don't see the need for a mid-cycle option.

Because people have 4K TVs & also people need reasons to buy 4K TVs because for now they don't have much content but a 4K PS4 will make more people make that jump.

 

[timmyp53]

He said that? That doesn't makes sense when he's already said they have hardware being made and documents out there. You don't make that sort of investment/commitment then gauge reactions, surely!?

I think hes just speculating. I honestly doubt sony would actually care what a couple forums think. They probably have dozens of teams doing research on trends and such.

 

[RoboPlato]

He said that? That doesn't makes sense when he's already said they have hardware being made and documents out there. You don't make that sort of investment/commitment then gauge reactions, surely!?

I imagine that dev reactions and feedback are more important to Sony at this point than forum responses.

 

[Obliterator]

Sony is reading GAF, just like MS, Nintendo, EA, Ubisoft, and everyone else is.

That said if we are at the point that Test Kits are being made then the best thing they can gain from reading threads / forums is how to market the device and the messaging behind it

 

[RoboPlato]

Sony is reading GAF, just like MS, Nintendo, EA, Ubisoft, and everyone else is.

That said if we are at the point thay Test Kits are being made then the best thing they can gain from reading threads / forums is how to market the device and the messaging behind it

The big thing they'll have to emphasize is how devs are going to handle the current PS4 spec. I assume it'll remain the main target.

 

[ssharm02]

The big thing they'll have to emphasize is how devs are going to handle the current PS4 spec. I assume it'll remain the main target.

PS4 game settings - Low
PS4.5 game settings High

Just like how its done on PC. x86, PC like architecture makes it easier

 

[dano1]

As long as all games work on both why should anyone give a shit!! I'm in for the new one!

 

[onQ123]

Different architecture (two gens newer) and CPU bottlenecks. Take a look at the ratios that result from your approach.

The current PS4 is based on the 7000 series and has 1.8 Tflops and the R7 370 is 1.9 Tflops. The 370 runs BF4 in 4k at 25 fps on average the PS4 runs roughly twice the framerate at a 5.76 times lower resolution.

If you ignore architecture differences and CPU bottlenecks you assume a +5% delta in Tflops would result in a +186% performance delta.

If we overclock the PS4 architecture by +5% directly we know this results in a +5% delta in Tflops, yet one wouldn't expect "framerate-resolution" performance to nearly triple. The situation is far more complex than you understand it to be.

But this will be newer tech in the PS4.5

 

[timmyp53]

The big thing they'll have to emphasize is how devs are going to handle the current PS4 spec. I assume it'll remain the main target.

Well PS4 certification process just got a little more complicated. I wonder if they will waive all patch fees for pre ps4k titles(maybe even going forward).

 

[Abilidebob]

So, if I have a 1080p TV and use this "PS4k" on it, the games that run will be running 4k downscaled to 1080p?

 

[RoboPlato]

Well PS4 certification process just got a little more complicated. I wonder if they will waive all patch fees for pre ps4k titles.

I'm not expecting a major difference in specs. A little more CPU/GPU with 4k upscaling. Devs will have the option to up settings a bit on PS4k but it'll mostly just be holding closer to the framerate target, maintaining upper resolution target in games with dynamic res, less pop in, faster load times, etc.

 

[dano1]

PS4 game settings - Low
PS4.5 game settings High

Just like how its done on PC. x86, PC like architecture makes it easier

Yep. People forget it's basically a PC.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If they are reading places then they must be sweating because I don't think i've seen any place that's been overwhelmingly positive about this idea.

 

[Wishmaster92]

PS4 game settings - Low
PS4.5 game settings High

Just like how its done on PC. x86, PC like architecture makes it easier

Exactly, i don't see anything negative from this.

 

[timmyp53]

So, if I have a 1080p TV and use this "PS4k" on it, the games that run will be running 4k downscaled to 1080p?

Well we don't know. For all we know setting your PS4 to display in 1080p could possibly make new games display on medium graphical settings(ps4) instead of the PS4k preset.

 

[Obliterator]

If they are reading places then they must be sweating because I don't think i've seen any place that's been overwhelmingly positive about this idea.

Well let's hope they don't listen to the negative voices because there is essentially zero reason to be and is just people afraid of change.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I imagine that dev reactions and feedback are more important to Sony at this point than forum responses.

Right. I just read it like if the fan reactions were bad Sony would back out of it. Which sounds absurd.

This whole thing though is so odd in timing and coming off the back of the (in my opinion) the odd launch date/price announcement of PSVR. I saw a lack of confidence in Sony with that GDC presentation and wonder if the "rumour" of this PS4.5 could be linked in any way.

Probably just my imagination running wild, but still.

 

[dano1]

If they are reading places then they must be sweating because I don't think i've seen any place that's been overwhelmingly positive about this idea.

Only people without jobs don't like it. Tired of waiting 7 years for new hardware! It's time for a change.

 

[ssharm02]

Only people without jobs don't like it. Tired of waiting 7 years for new hardware! It's time for a change.

lol

ice cold

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Only people without jobs don't like it. Tired of waiting 7 years for new hardware! It's time for a change.

129 pages,25 pages for the other thread and somehow this is still a response from some people..so damn ignorant i dont get it

 

[wapplew]

Mid gen iteration is bad for us in the long run. Forward compatible will hurt adoption rate, be it PS4.5, PS5, or PS5.5
You might enjoy PS4 game on high setting on PS4.5 now, but you will be only able to play PS4 game on super high setting on PS5, PS4 game on ultra setting on PS5.5, PS4 game on super ultra setting on PS6.

If your new hardware don't have any exclusive that make use of that hardware, people will not eager to jump in.

 

[timmyp53]

Only people without jobs don't like it. Tired of waiting 7 years for new hardware! It's time for a change.

Lol careful there bud.

If they are reading places then they must be sweating because I don't think i've seen any place that's been overwhelmingly positive about this idea.

I don't think I've seen any places that have been overwhelmingly negative though either. A mixed reaction might not be too bad. This is a radical shift after all.

 

[Obliterator]

Listen in 2016 there is no reason I should have to wait 5+ years for new hardware. No reason at all. I dont have to wait that long for a single other electronic good in my life.

If there are people who want to wait, great give them support still. But for those of us willing to upgrade at a faster cycle that shouldn't be impossible.

 

[Abilidebob]

Well we don't know. For all we know setting your PS4 to display in 1080p could possibly make new games display on medium graphical settings(ps4) instead of the PS4k preset.

I don't like it that much. I think that downsampling is necessary, as 1080p screens are still the norm.
Sony can use that easily for their marketing
"The new PS4k use this new technology called Sonysampling™! With it you can enjoy the benefits of four-kay resolution even with a FullHD display!"

 

[Nanashrew]

Mid gen iteration is bad for us in the long run. Forward compatible will hurt adoption rate, be it PS4.5, PS5, or PS5.5

If your new hardware don't have any exclusive that make use of that hardware, people will not eager to jump in.

They can have a cut-off after a certain point. But with everything being BC, your games move forward with you.

 

[BruceCLea]

Hey Sony I'll buy it!

 

[dano1]

129 pages,25 pages for the other thread and somehow this is still a response from some people..so damn ignorant i dont get it

Why do you or anyone else care if I want to spend MY money on a new system that is game compatible with the old one. Plus I will sell my old PS4 for $150 to someone that didn't want to spend $300. And they will buy games. Win for everyone!!

 

[LiquidGykill]

If this is actually true:

Should ps4 owners feel ourselves like idiots for buying the original PS4?

Will this split the consumer base and force developers to consider release new games for this new console only?

are we fucked up?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well let's hope they don't listen to the negative voices because there is essentially zero reason to be and is just people afraid of change.

Why shouldn't they take those voices into account? Listening to those voices is what put them in the position they are now. Not listening to those voices are why Nintendo and Microsoft are in their current positions.

Only people without jobs don't like it. Tired of waiting 7 years for new hardware! It's time for a change.

That's what PC's are for if you want to have always evolving hardware. People don't buy consoles for that.

 

[timmyp53]

I don't like it that much. I think that downsampling is necessary, as 1080p screens are still the norm.
Sony can use that easily for their marketing
"The new PS4k use this new technology called Sonysampling™! With it you can enjoy the benefits of four-kay resolution even with a FullHD display!"

Yeah I said a couple pages back that they'd have to cater

Spoiler

market

to those who haven't adopted yet to 4K first and foremost. One of the reasons why I think they shouldn't call it PS4k

 

[ArtHands]

The PS4.5, if it exist, is targeted for the future PS4 owners though. Those who wants the PS4 but hasn't purchase yet. I dont see why current PS4 owners is getting upset when they already get to enjoy the PS4 gen longer than these people.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Why do you or anyone else care if I want to spend MY money on a new system that is game compatible with the old one. Plus I will sell my old PS4 for $150 to someone that didn't want to spend $300. And they will buy games. Win for everyone!!

Idgaf if you spend your money on a piece of burnt bread my point is saying people are broke because they aren't for this is hilarious.

 

[The God]

If this is actually true:

Should ps4 owners feel ourselves like idiots for buying the original PS4?

Will this split the consumer base and force developers to consider release new games for this new console only?

are we fucked up?

Eventually they'd cut the cord on the OGPS4.

 

[Obliterator]

Why shouldn't they take those voices into account? Listening to those voices is what put them in the position they are now.

Because I think the negativity is mostly a fear of change for the most part. As long as PS4 keeps getting the same games why does it matter? Why should other consumers be held back who want it?

 

[wapplew]

They can have a cut-off after a certain point. But with everything being BC, your games move forward with you.

If adoption rate is bad, dev will no do cut off.
Just like phones games, tablet games or PC games. all we get to play is same game that run better or higher setting.

 

[ssharm02]

If this is actually true:

Should ps4 owners feel ourselves like idiots for buying the original PS4?

Will this split the consumer base and force developers to consider release new games for this new console only?

are we fucked up?

do pc gamers feel like idiots buying cheaper graphics cards or lower end cpu's? Not everyone can afford a top of the line intel i7 or a gtx 980. They still have a choice of buying cheaper hardware, running the games with a beautiful config with a solid frame rate. I doubt they feel like idiots even though the hardware keeps changing every six months.

Its all about choices and what you can afford. If I have the money and the option to run Uncharted 4 or Final Fantasy XV at 60 FPS on a PS4.5, I would go for it.

 

[MogCakes]

Because people have 4K TVs & also people need reasons to buy 4K TVs because for now they don't have much content but a 4K PS4 will make more people make that jump.

As a one-off thing maybe, but as a model I don't see any reason to release a new console every 3 years versus 5.

 

[dano1]

Idgaf if you spend your money on a piece of burnt bread my point is saying people are broke because they aren't for this is hilarious.

Well give me a good reason why having two systems that play the same games one just plays them better is a bad idea?

 

[Obliterator]

Its all about choices and what you can afford. If I have the money and the option to run Uncharted 4 or Final Fantasy XV at 60 FPS on a PS4.5, I would go for it.

Exactly. If I can afford it why wouldn't I want a machine that will play Uncharted 4 and FFXV at a rock solid 60fps? I would buy it in an instant.

 

[timmyp53]

I don't like it that much. I think that downsampling is necessary, as 1080p screens are still the norm.
Sony can use that easily for their marketing
"The new PS4k use this new technology called Sonysampling™! With it you can enjoy the benefits of four-kay resolution even with a FullHD display!"

Or more likely system software(OS) will determine how your display settings are handled depending on what type of PS4 you have. Defaulting the highest possible preset for any specific console.

 

[onQ123]

So, if I have a 1080p TV and use this "PS4k" on it, the games that run will be running 4k downscaled to 1080p?

The Supersampling is about to get real!

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Well give me a good reason why having two systems that play the same games one just plays them better is a bad idea?

Again i didn't say it was a good or bad idea now did i? Lol. U know why i quoted ur post stop ignoring it.

Im not gonna say its bad or good because idk how they'll execute it so for now in my mind no body is wrong. They could completely fuck over one side or both nobody knows so for now im waiting

 

[notaskwid]

My personal biggest fear here is that a lot of similar situations to Hyrule Warriors happen. Compatible with the original hardware but almost unplayable in it.

 

[DangerMouse]

I feel you on that, I just think if going forward consoles are full BC we don't necessarily need a new console upgrade every 3 years along with it. A normal 5-year cycle still works in that regard.

This. I think we were already going to get full BC going forward anyway now that the consoles are on less exotic hardware. We can stick with the normal cycle where we get a sizable upgrade and don't split the userbase by mid-upgrades.

 

[dano1]

Again i didn't say it was a good or bad idea now did i? Lol. U know why i quoted ur post stop ignoring it.

Im not gonna say its bad or good because idk how they'll execute it so for now in my mind no body is wrong. They could completely fuck over one side or both nobody knows so for now im waiting

Fair enough.

 

[wapplew]

Its all about choices and what you can afford. If I have the money and the option to run Uncharted 4 or Final Fantasy XV at 60 FPS on a PS4.5, I would go for it.

What about my choice to play PS5 exclusive on the day it launch?
Your option to run Uncharted 4 at 60fps might kill it for me.