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[Hitlersaurus Christ]

I like how OP just brushes aside every mention of the "bad with directions but too proud to ask" trope being a primarily male thing because he hasn't seen the numerous things with it.

 

[woopWOOP]

OP's three points make her sound like a fun character actually.
Disappointment if you expected a 1:1 of Link maybe, but I like characters with actual flaws.

 

[Camjo-Z]

reminder that link in hyrule warriors is a mute who can't properly convey commands on the battlefield without the help of a female fairy

 

[Anteo]

If she ever needed help then she's invalidated, despite Link needing help from various female characters in most of his games

Does that also invalidates Link as a hero because he needed: Tetra, a bunch of flying people, and a big dragon just to escape from Gannondorf? Because he was pretty much dead otherwise.

 

[Crocodile]

I think the mere fact that they set up the character in such a disappointingly non-forward-looking way is a really bad gesture given the climate surrounding gender representation in video games (especially) and film.

I'm not complaining about the choice of trope itself making the depiction of the character sexist. She doesn't need to be absent of stereotypical tropes or flaws to be a good character. Hell, I even think she's a good character anyway.

I'm complaining about the specific choice of trope - the whole "unable to find her way using a map" thing - sending a really weird message given that in 8 months Nintendo's about to release a game where the player will need to navigate using a map, but their aspiring legendary heroine - the first time they've represented a version of Link as a female player-character - is apparently incapable of reading one.

Like I said, I'm pretty fond of the character and I even like the whole "she keeps showing up late to the fight" thing as it gives her room to act on top of the existing story without being overly gratuitous. I like that she isn't obviously caught up in the major hero prophecies and is just going off to fight because she wants to be the hero, spurred on by her grandmother's stories. I think that's all fine (great, even!) and makes her endearing in a way that Link isn't. I think going the wrong direction constantly is a fun little quirk, too, that I personally enjoy.

I just don't like that the last piece of big Zelda media we're likely to get before their big open world Zelda game with a huge detailed map leaves us with our first female analog to Link... and she can't read a map. Again, it's an unusual signal to be sending alongside such a character, in the context of that particular upcoming game.

Inability to use or read a map =/= incompetent, stupid, terrible

This applies to fiction as well as real life. No significant number of people are going "how dare Linkle not be able to read a map - doesn't she know Link does that all the time!" and getting their jimmies rustled. Pairing a competent character with agency with some humorous, internationally recognized tropes (that lean more male if they are gendered) doesn't destroy the character and isn't spitting in the face of the current videogame climate/culture. Feel free not to like her but so far, nothing that has been presented here today could reasonably be considered "problematic".

That's just another way of saying "parody".

You're trying way too hard

If she ever needed help then she's invalidated, despite Link needing help from various female characters in most of his games

Yeah that's a weird sense I'm getting from some posts in this thread. One flaw, one time you've got to be rescued and you're worthless. Like speaking of Nintendo characters in general, sure, I get Peach being called a damsel in distress overall since that seems to be her role in a lot of the Mario games (but not all which is important) but like Palutena (or some other examples)?

 

[LegendofLex]

Of course it is.

However, it probably isn't part of some conspiracy to make people think that being a woman makes you unfit to fulfil the role of Link for any reason aside from not being the chosen one.

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all, I just think the creators are making exceptionally poor use of the promising character template they started with.

She doesn't need to be a carbon copy of Link, to be sure, but to make her a straight-up inferior version of him is a real head-scratcher given that her backstory actually gave them an opportunity to supplant that expectation.

 

[-Horizon-]

Well, this thread is certainly heading places.

And here I thought she was adorable and very likeable.

Well you thought wrong!

Spoiler

she is super cute :3

 

[Anteo]

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all, I just think the creators are making exceptionally poor use of the promising character template they started with.

She doesn't need to be a carbon copy of Link, to be sure, but to make her a straight-up inferior version of him is a real head-scratcher given that her backstory actually gave them an opportunity to supplant that expectation.

She started as Link's sister. She was never Link.

 

[LegendofLex]

She started as Link's sister. She was never Link.

The visual design strongly suggests that they imagined her as a kind of "female Link." Link's had a sister before, and she didn't wear a green tunic.

 

[Nanashrew]

The visual design strongly suggests that they imagined her as a kind of "female Link." Link's had a sister before, and she didn't wear a green tunic.

Art book with developer notes says otherwise.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all, I just think the creators are making exceptionally poor use of the promising character template they started with.

She doesn't need to be a carbon copy of Link, to be sure, but to make her a straight-up inferior version of him is a real head-scratcher given that her backstory actually gave them an opportunity to supplant that expectation.

Has no sense of direction != "straight up inferior". It's a relatively common character trope.

 

[SparkleMotion]

What OP expected:

What OP got:

What she is:

 

[Ullus]

Link's had a sister before, and she didn't wear a green tunic.

Never too late.

 

[LegendofLex]

Art book with developer notes says otherwise.

Being imagined as "Link's sister" and a "female version of Link" are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Has no sense of direction != "straight up inferior". It's a relatively common character trope.

You don't have to point to her sense of direction to get the sense that the story doesn't want us to think she's just as worthy a hero as Link.

 

[Anteo]

The visual design strongly suggests that they imagined her as a kind of "female Link." Link's had a sister before, and she didn't wear a green tunic.

This:

Art book with developer notes says otherwise.

and she did get cut originally because of Aryll existence.

 

[akidnamededdy]

The visual design strongly suggests that they imagined her as a kind of "female Link." Link's had a sister before, and she didn't wear a green tunic.

Being imagined as "Link's sister" and a "female version of Link" are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Just take your L, dude.

Spoiler

The L stands for LINKLE

 

[Eolz]

The visual design strongly suggests that they imagined her as a kind of "female Link." Link's had a sister before, and she didn't wear a green tunic.

This time it was Koei Tecmo's vision of Link's sister.
Just like their vision of Ganondorf uses two huge swords and has super long hair.

Being imagined as "Link's sister" and a "female version of Link" are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

There's a lot more chances that it was exclusive than inclusive, but sure.

 

[-Horizon-]

Aonuma was probably just jealous that he didn't think of Linkle first :T

 

[diaspora]

OP ethered on the first page wtf

 

[User 479360]

I thought the same thing. Her inability to follow basic signs is pretty laughable, and kind of offensive to females.

 

[Tingle]

You don't have to point to her sense of direction to get the sense that the story doesn't want us to think she's just as worthy a hero as Link.

That's literally her entire point of her story. She isn't Link, she is supposed to be a self-proclaimed hero who thinks she is Link despite her incompetence in navigating. We know she isn't the hero from the second they show her, because we already met the hero, Link.

When you meet Link initially, his title is "The Hero". The game isn't exactly subtle here.

 

[PtM]

No no, you dont get it, aparently she is



somehow

I'm just saying it's a valid reading, not that it's the intended one. Hence the italics.

You're trying way too hard

I guess I'm just salty that Linkle basically confirms we're never going to get female Link. Because I'm pretty confident that first came the design and then the parody.

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all, I just think the creators are making exceptionally poor use of the promising character template they started with.

She doesn't need to be a carbon copy of Link, to be sure, but to make her a straight-up inferior version of him is a real head-scratcher given that her backstory actually gave them an opportunity to supplant that expectation.

Or pretty much this.

 

[Pokemaniac]

You don't have to point to her sense of direction to get the sense that the story doesn't want us to think she's just as worthy a hero as Link.

The story is pretty clear that she isn't the hero. This doesn't really impact her ability to be a hero.

 

[SparkleMotion]

I guess I'm just salty that Linkle basically confirms we're never going to get female Link.

I'd rather have a character with a personality.

 

[SkyOdin]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

You clearly haven't played enough Super Robot Wars. The very first, and still most commonly appearing original character in the Super Robot Wars series is named Masaki Andou, the pilot of a mech called the Cybuster, first appearing in an SNES game and will be appearing in a PS4 game, And this guy gets lost[/]. It is his most defining character trait. You could give him a map, a direct compass bearing, and a GPS system, and he would still end up orbiting the planet six times before accidentally stumbling into a friend who would have to show him the way. Hell, his robot is equiped with a magitek supercomputer that can predict the future, and he still can't find North America on a map.

This guy is still played straight as the cool and capable main character who saves the world on a regular basis. He still has a good head for strategy and technology. His absolutely horrible sense of direction just happens to be a character quirk played for laughs.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I thought the same thing. Her inability to follow basic signs is pretty laughable, and kind of offensive to females.

Not really, as proven by numerous male characters who have no sense of direction and a whole 1 female character who doesn't

 

[Christopher]

I thought the same thing. Her inability to follow basic signs is pretty laughable, and kind of offensive to females.

...why? I mean it's damn if they do damn if they don't. Any kind of personality of characterization of this character is offensive...

 

[Eolz]

I guess I'm just salty that Linkle basically confirms we're never going to get female Link. Because I'm pretty confident that first came the design and then the parody.

You're putting way too much faith on KT by thinking they wouldn't have given her this archetype from the start even if she was female Link.
Anyway, if we don't get female Link, it won't be because of how Linkle was portrayed.

 

[LegendofLex]

This time it was Koei Tecmo's vision of Link's sister.
Just like their vision of Ganondorf uses two huge swords and has super long hair.

There's a lot more chances that it was exclusive than inclusive, but sure.

They didn't have to design Link's sister with an outfit that's so clearly designed to resemble his traditional hero gear, such that they were able to build that resemblance - that association with "the hero" - into the story we actually got in the end.

It was an intentional choice. I choose to think they were pretty aware of the fact that most people would think "oh, that looks like a girl Link," because that was the prevailing reaction from most people when they saw the artwork.

That's literally her entire point of her story. She isn't Link, she is supposed to be a self-proclaimed hero who thinks she is Link despite her incompetence in navigating. We know she isn't the hero from the second they show her, because we already met the hero, Link.

The story is pretty clear that she isn't the hero. This doesn't really impact her ability to be a hero.

She could still be the hero with a heroic destiny, she just obviously won't be fulfilling the destiny that already had fallen on Link. There's room to let her be an actual kind of female Link prototype without saying "lol, no, the hero has to be the dude Link, girl Link is just a novelty side character" which is basically the only thing I'm getting out of her story.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I thought the same thing. Her inability to follow basic signs is pretty laughable, and kind of offensive to females.

2/3 of the roster of the game are female. One of them having a character flaw isn't offensive.

 

[Berordn]

I thought the same thing. Her inability to follow basic signs is pretty laughable, and kind of offensive to females.

She isn't unable to follow basic signs.

She never sees the sign, because she's confident in her navigation abilities. Her whole character is based on overconfidence.

 

[Tingle]

She could still be the hero with a heroic destiny, she just obviously won't be fulfilling the destiny that already had fallen on Link.

How can she be the Hero when we already have the Hero? The game's core plot was written two years ago and we already saw Link was the Hero. We know Link has the Triforce, and we know Zelda did too. That's why those two were the ones who mattered in the end, and not some random Hylian chicken farmer.

There's room to let her be an actual kind of female Link prototype without saying "lol, no, the hero has to be the dude Link, girl Link is just a novelty side character" which is basically the only thing I'm getting out of her story.

Every character who isn't Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf plays a side roll to those three. That's true for every Zelda game, I don't know why this random Tecmo OC would be treated any different. There are nearly thirty characters in the game, and none of the side characters were any more relevant in the story than Linkle except for Cia, who fulfilled the role of "Ganondorf's pawn" seen throughout the series.

It's not that "dude Link" has to be the hero, but it does have to be Link. Linkle is not, and never was supposed to be Link.

 

[Fandangox]

Best example is Warriors orochi, thats the game where the trope defines the character.

Yup. For example, Magoichi in SW has always been the skirtchaser, but it wasn't never part of his main motivations (most of the time, is revenge) or his only personality trait.

In WO1 it was just his one trait and main motivation, I even remember him spouting out a line to Zhu about usually not wasting time talking to men, but making an exception for him, so different from his "tragic" portrayal in SW2 lol

That said, WO1 is just a dream match fan service crossover and they had to handle like 80 characters or so, makes sense there wasn't going to be any good characterization nor story. Never expected it.

 

[mkvl]

Sexist is thinking that all female characters must be portrait as strong, independent and intelligent.

 

[Anteo]

She isn't unable to follow basic signs.

She never sees the sign, because she's confident in her navigation abilities. Her whole character is based on overconfidence.

Interestingly enough, overconfidence is the thing almost gets Link killed in the campaing, lol.
Maybe they are more similar than I thought

 

[Nanashrew]

One thing about this though is that she also has some common traits found in typical shounen heroes.

 

[Arkeband]

Dude has no sense of direction, relies on female for directions. Often she's not right either.

People are bad with directions is low brow humor, and it's not gender specific.

 

[PSqueak]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

What are you talking about? That's a very typical male anime trope, people already brought Zoro and Ryoga, the latter who hilariously lost his way to a lot right behind his own house and ended up outside the country.

And IRL, it's still a guy stereotype, if anything it's refreshing to se a female doing this stereotype.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I get why people are mad that Linkle isn't female Link, but at the same time come on now, are you saying she's not allowed to be anything else but female Link? I like it when people have fun with character interpretations, and it's not like a side character in an enhanced port of a musou spinoff is going to completely ruin any possibility of having a female Link in the future.

People need to stop getting so riled up because a character isn't what they want them to be.

 

[PtM]

You're putting way too much faith on KT by thinking they wouldn't have given her this archetype from the start even if she was female Link.
Anyway, if we don't get female Link, it won't be because of how Linkle was portrayed.

What I meant to say is that Linkle seems (for now) to be all the female Link Nintendo wants to go for, that is, by similar name and by visual design (green hood).

She isn't a Nintendo character. Chances are she will never leave the Warriors series.

Here's to hoping.

 

[Nanashrew]

I get why people are mad that Linkle isn't female Link, but at the same time come on now, are you saying she's not allowed to be anything else but female Link? I like it when people have fun with character interpretations, and it's not like a side character in an enhanced port of a musou spinoff is going to completely ruin any possibility of having a female Link in the future.

People need to stop getting so riled up because a character isn't what they want them to be.

Plus making her just a female Link and making her personality more like Link only makes her a shadow of Link. I like that she diverges from him.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

What I meant to say is that Linkle seems (for now) to be all the female Link Nintendo wants to go for, that is, by similar name and by visual design (green hood).

She isn't a Nintendo character. Chances are she will never leave the Warriors series.

 

[deadeyekiwi]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

That's one of the biggest tropes of 80's 90's sitcoms. There are probably a million TV shows where there is an basically episode dedicated to a stubborn dude won't ask for instructions, while his wife/gf/female friend is trying to stop to get instructions. I know for a fact it happened in fresh prince and family matters.

 

[MegaMelon]

Are you purposefully looking for something to be outraged over? I feel sorry for writers, if they have a female character that's perfect people complain it's not realistic and if they make them with any flaws or have one acting as comedy relief people will be waiting to cry "sexist!" or some variation.

 

[Nanashrew]

She isn't a Nintendo character. Chances are she will never leave the Warriors series.

Depends. Nintendo owns the character and could use her in other things if she's well liked enough. Toadette's first appearance was in Mario Kart Double Dash and has made an appearance in Thousand Year Door. She came from a side game but has had major appearances.

She and Toad are also now protagonists in Treasure Tracker. (I really want a sequel to Treasure Tracker)

 

[Tingle]

Depends. Nintendo owns the character and could use her in other things if she's well liked enough. Toadette's first appearance was in Mario Kart Double Dash and has made an appearance in Thousand Year Door. She came from a side game but has had major appearances.

She and Toad are also now protagonists in Treasure Tracker. (I really want a sequel to Treasure Tracker)

I don't think the issue is that she is a side character. The issue is that she sticks out like a sore thumb when compared to the actual Zelda characters in the game, and fits more in line with Lana and Cia. She is pretty clearly designed by Tecmo, and Nintendo would hopefully do their own improved version of a female Link if they ever went ahead with the concept.

 

[Bronetta]

I've noticed a recent outrage trend where people are too quick to call it gender traits rather than character traits and it always happens with female characters.

 

[Alboreo]

...The being lost thing is a joke. I don't see what the problem is.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Depends. Nintendo owns the character and could use her in other things if she's well liked enough. Toadette's first appearance was in Mario Kart Double Dash and has made an appearance in Thousand Year Door. She came from a side game but has had major appearances.

She and Toad are also now protagonists in Treasure Tracker. (I really want a sequel to Treasure Tracker)

Toadette was designed in-house as a first party character. Mario Kart is a spin off, but it's still made by EAD. She's as much a Nintendo character as any other Mario character.

Linkle is more like Geno. Third party spin off character. I don't believe Nintendo owns 100% of Linkle.

 

[A.J.]

She sounds like Zoro. I love Zoro, so I approve