Eh...it's been pretty much a non issue for a while now. I use a Xbox 360 controller with my PC that's hooked up to my TV with Steam set to start automatically in big picture mode. I also have an application (can't remember the name) that makes my controller emulate a mouse if I press the back button; press it again and it's back to a controller. Really the only "messing around" I have to do is installing driver updates every now and then.
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PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Eh...it's been pretty much a non issue for a while now. I use a Xbox 360 controller with my PC that's hooked up to my TV with Steam set to start automatically in big picture mode. I also have an application (can't remember the name) that makes my controller emulate a mouse if I press the back button; press it again and it's back to a controller. Really the only "messing around" I have to do is installing driver updates every now and then.
It was s confluence of many factors which led to the underpowered hardware. Consoles either have to start getting more expensive with each generation or (apparently) we will see mid gen upgrades every few years.
Personally, I think the PS4 is powerful enough.
Show me the exact paragraph in the Holy Book of Prankery where it says "thou shall only start an April fools joke on April 1st!"
In contrast you'll find this in The Art of Trolling, ed.2 from 2005: "A worthy troll will live day in day out as if everyday's April 1st"
I'd say a 6-8 year lifecycle would've been okay, had PS4 and Xbox One been exceptionally powerful, as the PS3 was in 2006, and actually even more so, the Xbox 360 in 2005.
If you had an Xbox 360 in late 2005 or even early 2006, and you wanted a PC to match its gaming capability, you'd have to spend a few grand on on high-end desktop class hardware, and even then, it would only be more or less about equal. Certainly wouldn't have blown Xbox 360 out of the water. Lastgen consoles introduced three new high-end concepts for console developers: multi-core processing, HD rendering/asset creation, and complex fully programmable shaders on both MS and Sony hardware (yes, og Xbox had programmable shaders in 2001, but PS2 did not).
Those consoles were a huge leap and a massive hurdle for devs to come to grips with, expense for making quality games, and cost for MS and Sony to manufacture. On top of that, online multiplayer and a constant online ecosystem had to be standard, unlike the generation before, where Xbox Live launched a year after the og Xbox came out, PS2 barely had anything at all, and Dreamcast was dial-up.
Whereas, when PS4 and Xbox One launched in 2013, they were equivalent to a midrange gaming laptop GPU, and lowend laptop CPU. This was and is the HD remaster generation combined with full social media integration. Pretty incremental in itself. Nothing ground breaking.
As others have said, the traditional console cycle model is archaic and dates back to the 1970s & 80s.
This is not an argument in favor of PS4K, just where the industry is heading.
If you had an Xbox 360 in late 2005 or even early 2006, and you wanted a PC to match its gaming capability, you'd have to spend a few grand on on high-end desktop class hardware, and even then, it would only be more or less about equal. Certainly wouldn't have blown Xbox 360 out of the water. Lastgen consoles introduced three new high-end concepts for console developers: multi-core processing, HD rendering/asset creation, and complex fully programmable shaders on both MS and Sony hardware (yes, og Xbox had programmable shaders in 2001, but PS2 did not).
Those consoles were a huge leap and a massive hurdle for devs to come to grips with, expense for making quality games, and cost for MS and Sony to manufacture. On top of that, online multiplayer and a constant online ecosystem had to be standard, unlike the generation before, where Xbox Live launched a year after the og Xbox came out, PS2 barely had anything at all, and Dreamcast was dial-up.
Whereas, when PS4 and Xbox One launched in 2013, they were equivalent to a midrange gaming laptop GPU, and lowend laptop CPU. This was and is the HD remaster generation combined with full social media integration. Pretty incremental in itself. Nothing ground breaking.
As others have said, the traditional console cycle model is archaic and dates back to the 1970s & 80s.
This is not an argument in favor of PS4K, just where the industry is heading.
Mister Megative
Banned
Yes. We should all hope to see a new console fail. What?
Rey
Member
Exactly
I personally can not wait for this. Always thought the PS4 was underpowered since launch. Very excited.
DasPenguin
Member
I sure hope that's the case. But lets say Rockstar makes their new GTA at the end of this generation. I'm sure they will optimize for the stronger version, which means the vanilla PS4 will run like mud. I really hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Massive games like GTA were going to take hit no matter what .
Just look at GTA framerate last gen and millions of people did not care .
qa_engineer
Member
Its an unwritten rule. I brought this same point up multiple times stating that setting up a April Fools prank prior to April is just something you don't do. Additionally if the setup pre-dates April then technically it is a March or February (or any prior month) Fools joke, which is just silly. They must do April Fools jokes differently in whatever country (or parallel universe) you're in.
What did you expect from a 400$ console with open architecture?
SolarMystic
Member
Computers have wildly differing specs and the developers allow for in depth tweaks to the graphical presentation of their games. Not to mention that GPU launches are incremental steps. The main bottleneck of modern PCs is the CPU, unless your doing 4k. They are also hugely more powerful than anything found in a console.
Sony says their policy is to let Microsoft make the first move. They should do this.
They should then make a machine better than the new Xbox and NX by a significant margin and call it the PS5.
Other than that a generous trade in policy should be put into effect for a PS4K.
These arent cell phones, which btw not everyone is stupid enough to change every year. If my dog hadn't bit mine Id still have my Xperia Z and be happy with it and out of contract with my carrier.
Regardless, Sony should remember to wait. There is no rush to be the first system with an upgrade when your system is doing well and your brand is doing much better than previously. Sony want to do some PS3 screw up?
Just wait... Keep calm and wait.
They should then make a machine better than the new Xbox and NX by a significant margin and call it the PS5.
Other than that a generous trade in policy should be put into effect for a PS4K.
These arent cell phones, which btw not everyone is stupid enough to change every year. If my dog hadn't bit mine Id still have my Xperia Z and be happy with it and out of contract with my carrier.
Regardless, Sony should remember to wait. There is no rush to be the first system with an upgrade when your system is doing well and your brand is doing much better than previously. Sony want to do some PS3 screw up?
Just wait... Keep calm and wait.
I hope you are aware that Ninty will also follow with their next system. Something that could as easily scalable as the smartphones we have today... Why do you think the Pokemon Sun and Moon was not announced exclusively for the 3DS? I wouldn't be surprised to a NX version or mobile version of the game honestly. :S
recklesscognition
Member
Do people honestly think Sony would alienate 40 million people to push their 4k business? lol.
There's a real reason Sony is doing this if it's true, and we'll find out soon enough. And if there isn't, Sony isn't going to alienate 40 million and will figure out an easy way to add 4k media capability, like a media drive, and little else to make games truly different.
There's a real reason Sony is doing this if it's true, and we'll find out soon enough. And if there isn't, Sony isn't going to alienate 40 million and will figure out an easy way to add 4k media capability, like a media drive, and little else to make games truly different.
The Praiseworthy
Member
So.... Every game that will be released on the same generation console will have two versions ( physically and digitally ).
The PS4 and the PS4K.
Yep, that won't confuse some people at all.
The more I think it the less sense it makes to me.
I don't think it will be beyond a slim versions with the support for 4K for movies.
The PS4 and the PS4K.
Yep, that won't confuse some people at all.
The more I think it the less sense it makes to me.
I don't think it will be beyond a slim versions with the support for 4K for movies.
We are starting to see this with console games too... The Division being the first one to offer such feature. No?
ScaryShark
Banned
I bought PS4 at launch. I've enjoyed PS4 daily since then. It has cost me 46 cents a day for that console in the 866 days since I've had it. A more powerful console with a UHD Blu-ray player 4 years after the original purchase? Sounds completely reasonable to me.
I don't get what the dissenters expect or want Sony to do. If you feel the console is underpowered, do you just want them to ride this out for a traditional generation's length of time when things get more difficult to develop for just because that's what you are used to?
I'm actually impressed that a company this large can actually pivot and adapt to the technological landscape and offer me a new device that will improve upon or change the types of games I play without making me get in to PC gaming which I have little to no interest in.
I don't get what the dissenters expect or want Sony to do. If you feel the console is underpowered, do you just want them to ride this out for a traditional generation's length of time when things get more difficult to develop for just because that's what you are used to?
I'm actually impressed that a company this large can actually pivot and adapt to the technological landscape and offer me a new device that will improve upon or change the types of games I play without making me get in to PC gaming which I have little to no interest in.
where did you get that idea?
TheCanisDirus
Member
I kinda agree with this but i think PSVR might be pushing them to market a little quicker. I think the PS4.5 should boost the VR experience big time and that's a huge driving factor.
I honestly do not know how to feel about this. More than likely I will be buying it day 1. But the thing I am worried about is the multiplayer base being divided due to the fps difference between consoles. But the more I think about it, all the big multiplayer games out now are already 60fps. But there is the possibility of future online games being split due to the fps or is there???
SolarMystic
Member
Plus, most people don't spend hundreds of dollars even when they buy their phones every two or three years. Most major carriers in the US have installment plans now that essentially allow you to pay nothing up front.
Beerman462
Member
I edited my previous post, but I wanted respond again. I'm feeling pretty stupid this morning for not understanding what you were getting at last night. I understand now. You were saying you would need a 970/390 to double the fps of a game on the PS4. Seems obvious now. My apologies.
Maybe I can make more sense today with this. I was trying to say that if you bought a PS4K and a good number of games never target it you would be playing at the same fidelity as a stock PS4 with your PS4K there by gaining no advantage to buying it outside of whatever games do target it.
This to me makes the PS4K a terrible value vs say a PC upgrade. When I replace my GPU this summer all the games in my catalog will be improved. I will be able to play The Witcher at 60fps with higher settings rather than 30fps. If I bought a PS4K I would have to hope a developer goes back and patches games to get any benefit from my upgrade. That seems highly unlikely to happen in most cases.
Has OP ever come back?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Not devs will just set the game to a PS4 profile .
Salz01
Member
I've seen Bioshock Infinite running on a PC at 4K. It's truly a sight to behold. But the frame rate took a hit. If I can get a Sony system that outputs my current PS4 games at 4K via some patch, I'll get that system in a fucking heartbeat. The only thing that concerns me is hard drive disc space. Which makes no mention of it. Nothing less than 2TB please. 500gigs just doesn't cut it anymore.
bruno_spec
Neo Member
At first i was not a fan of the idea, but i do not own a ps4 yet. I'm planning to get one this month to play Uncharted 4 and since i don't own a 4k tv and i'm very happy with my Xbox One, i'm not worried about the ps4k rumors.
About games not targeting OG PS4 in development stages, i don't think thats the case. Comparing the situation with the transition between 3DS -> New 3DS (similar to PS4 -> PS4k):
- Games are not targeting New 3DS hardware, in their majority they run very well on the 3DS, which had a huge userbase when New 3DS was launched, similar to the case now for PS4. And yes, i know about Hyrule Warriors Legends, that should've been an exclusive in my opinion and i wouldn't mind.
- You can play big games in your OG 3ds if you want without concessions, Fire Emblem Fates, Smash and etc.
- Big franchises like Pokémon, with their new installment, Sun and Moon, will probably run well on OG 3DS. Remember DSi Enhanced Black 2 and White 2 Versions? They'll be the same at most i guess.
- Upgrading from a 3DS to a New 3DS costs less than upgrade from PS4 to PS4K, it's half of the cost without the 4K TV if you don't have one, and yet developers are doing games based on original hardware.
What we need is an official announcement from Sony, only time will tell. Rumors tend to ruin everything
About games not targeting OG PS4 in development stages, i don't think thats the case. Comparing the situation with the transition between 3DS -> New 3DS (similar to PS4 -> PS4k):
- Games are not targeting New 3DS hardware, in their majority they run very well on the 3DS, which had a huge userbase when New 3DS was launched, similar to the case now for PS4. And yes, i know about Hyrule Warriors Legends, that should've been an exclusive in my opinion and i wouldn't mind.
- You can play big games in your OG 3ds if you want without concessions, Fire Emblem Fates, Smash and etc.
- Big franchises like Pokémon, with their new installment, Sun and Moon, will probably run well on OG 3DS. Remember DSi Enhanced Black 2 and White 2 Versions? They'll be the same at most i guess.
- Upgrading from a 3DS to a New 3DS costs less than upgrade from PS4 to PS4K, it's half of the cost without the 4K TV if you don't have one, and yet developers are doing games based on original hardware.
What we need is an official announcement from Sony, only time will tell. Rumors tend to ruin everything
Both will run the same PS4 games, just not with same performances.
I guess it has to be. They must feel they have to jump in on this NOW.
Goldfishking
Member
I agree although they shouldn't wait too long. With the way both systems are built, sony will have the better system if they wait for microsoft to make the first move and then go from there.
The only way microsoft comes out on top is if they go crazy, and given the stuff from build (win32 to UWA conversion) and xbox one as a dev kit they have the potential to have a much more appealing product.
Either way im super excited for this year and how the new versions of these systems turn out. Not because i want one, but because it's interesting.
I Stalk Alone
Member
And just a year ago they were talking about 7 to 8 year gens. Lies, as soon as there is word a competitor has something in the pipelime that could be bigger and better out they come with their own ace. Seemingly reactive moves at a time when they should be getting into full gear with this gen, could mean somethimg is up with the competition, whether it is nintendo, valve, ios, android or something else entirely, remains to be seen.
AppleSeason
Member
30fps stable. That's all I asked for. I guess it also serves me right for switching to PS4 as my main gaming device and letting my computer wither. With PS3 I only used it for exclusive titles, which tend to run better than the rest.
Also Vita library management, better DVD / BR Playback, psone classics and better gamepad battery life, but that's a different story
"It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance. "
I'm sure many have already expressed disappointment over this, but this, IMO is the worst thing that can happen. New games being developed that will run like PS3 games if you don't have an upgraded machine.
I guess I have absolutely no choice but to pay whatever ridiculous price they will charge for it in Canada so I don't have to play games running at 20fps. This is not how I expected this gen to go.
How do you know Sony is reacting to MS? What if Sony has had this in the works for a while, and MS was reacting to this?
I'm sure many have already expressed disappointment over this, but this, IMO is the worst thing that can happen. New games being developed that will run like PS3 games if you don't have an upgraded machine.
I guess I have absolutely no choice but to pay whatever ridiculous price they will charge for it in Canada so I don't have to play games running at 20fps. This is not how I expected this gen to go.
How do you know Sony is reacting to MS? What if Sony has had this in the works for a while, and MS was reacting to this?
Yup. So basically PS4/XBO compared to PC games right this moment.
SmiteOfHand
Member
This is a little unfair because you are comparing what is an established norm for PC due to the way it has been operating with video card upgrades since the late 90's, with the new introduction of this concept to consoles. There is no reason to believe at this time that the same idea would not apply to consoles 5-10 years from now when developers are building console games with this in mind.
No, that's not the problem. The problem is you've been indoctrinated with female taste for interior design. ;P
My PC is 3 feet away from my TV and looks like a gorgeous Cajon (percussion instrument) made of plastic screaming POWAAHHH!!! My PS4 looks like a door stopper compared to this.
What's the difference between having a small box in your rack/under your TV or having a nice large box besides your rack/TV? I don't get it, I suppose you are not from the Us, because Americans usually love oversized stuff (large TVs, large cars, large refrigerators, large t&a (boyz), large tailz (boyz + gurlz) and so on)
It's totally possible that I'm full of it, as I gave up PC gaming a long time ago, and maybe things are way better now. In the state of PC gaming today, is it pretty well guaranteed that I'd be able to park my ass on the couch and use a DS4 controller? Another big problem is my preference for relaxing with a controller, as I like online MP games and playing against keyboard+mouse players would really suck.
How much time do people spend these days fiddling with drivers and so on?
I suppose this is a thread derail. *sigh* If there's a PC gaming thread for lazy console players somewhere, a pointer would be appreciated.
The Praiseworthy
Member
So one game release ( physically and digitally ) but when it runs on the console.. it will adjust itself automatically to the kind of PS4 they are running on?
Sorry If I'm making no sense lol...
Filthy Casual
Member
We've barely had any good exclusives yet and PS4 is already about to become the shit box. Damn son.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Well it's an upgrade over the original, why wouldn't there be a price increase?
Pretty basic stuff here...
So.... where did you get that from?
RedRooster
Member
I've slept on this a few nights, and I'm positive that I'm now 100% in for one of these. Right now though, we need this by summer. This is going to be awesome!
aygomyownroad
Member
Here is one thing:
We can only upgrade the PS4 hard drive to 2TB, how will 4K gaming effect the size of the games?
Will Sony allow bigger hard drives to accommodate this?
I hope they allow external drives for it.
We can only upgrade the PS4 hard drive to 2TB, how will 4K gaming effect the size of the games?
Will Sony allow bigger hard drives to accommodate this?
I hope they allow external drives for it.
Honestly, I really don't think the differences will be that major/huge.
My best guess is yes... the games' performances will be scalable to those of the systems, whether it is PS4K or XB1.5.
Wait, who said that? I can't find much about anyone talking about the lifespan of the PS4 except for this quote in 2014.
John Rabbit
Banned
output resolution has nothing to do with hard drive space. i could run Fallout 4 at 720p or 4K and it's still going to be a 30gb game on my PC.
RedRooster
Member
It will likely have an entirely new chipset, supporting 4+ 3.0 usb ports, sata 3, and AC wifi. Probably won't fit a 3.5" drive though.
Yes, basically. Devs will have two presets, and the consoles will use the preset they're supposed to.
BleedOrange
Banned
Yeah, doing this sort of thing is a no-brainer for MS at this point. I'm excited to see what they can cook up with a renewed focus on performance and new hardware direction from Panos Panay.