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[castaction]

Of course. Look at the Xbox Elite controller and how the peasant crew showed up with their torches and pitchforks when the $150 price tag was revealed. We know how that turned out. This thing will sell like hot cakes just like the PS4.

lool so much this

 

[Raide]

Would have been better if they just added 4k BluRay, slimmer design, quieter, and maybe an ssd.

This whole 2xGPU mid-gap nonsense is just gonna cause problems.

Just launch PS5 in late 2018 and make sure it's 100% compatible with all PS4 games.

Its because Sony is betting the farm on VR and the current PS4 just does not do it well enough. The 2xGPU stuff is squarely aimed at the VR usage.

 

[wapplew]

Of course. Look at the Xbox Elite controller and how the peasant crew showed up with their torches and pitchforks when the $150 price tag was revealed. We know how that turned out. This thing will sell like hot cakes just like the PS4.

Do we have the numbers of this hot cake?

 

[Mister Megative]

But huge part of console buyers are those who wait until $299.

And I guarantee those guys? The ones who DON'T need dem graffix? Those are the ones who will go all in on 299 PS4. That model will STILL sell great. Most people don't care about graphics. Lots of GAFers do, but most gamers aren't on GAF, and don't even know what a GAF is. Most gamers care about cost. 399 and 299 are both really attractive price points for what you're getting.

 

[Lady Gaia]

I just don't understand why they don't give users the option to tweak graphics settings.

Giving some people options is basically giving them an excuse to be angry. "If I turn up all the quality sliders then your lousy game runs like ass!" If this thread isn't enough evidence of that inevitable outcome, I don't know what is.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

Its because Sony is betting the farm on VR and the current PS4 just does not do it well enough. The 2xGPU stuff is squarely aimed at the VR usage.

Who said that? Shuhei Yoshida? He is currently playing Dark Souls 3 with PSVR... :S

That would be weird if he didn't specify on which model of PS4...

 

[Mister Megative]

Do we have the numbers of this hot cake?

Er, 40 million+ worldwide? It's outpacing PS2.

 

[mckmas8808]

Agreed. Fact that some people may have spent $399 on something that only a year later will likely be far less important in terms of tech value proposition and prominence, is a really bad look. The current PS4 ought to be a minimum of $249-$299 at least whole year before any such new hardware is released, that way the people who bought in late don't feel as bad.

I agree 1000%! This is called good will Sony.

 

[wonderful103]

Er, 40 million+ worldwide? It's outpacing PS2.

That talking point will be coming to an end eventually, according to some of the graphs we've seen from sales age

 

[wapplew]

Er, 40 million+ worldwide? It's outpacing PS2.

I mean elite controller.

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

I honestly think this will seriously damage the PS4s momentum. The only way they can even hope to come out of this unscathed is if they price drop the current PS4 even more.

Luckily I don't think the games I play on my PS4 (Japanese games, Indie games and Call of Duty) are at risk of getting downgraded. I also doubt many multiplatform games will suffer. I will still consider one though if it costs $399 with the same harddrive so I can easily swap my 2TB.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

And I guarantee those guys? The ones who DON'T need dem graffix? Those are the ones who will go all in on 299 PS4. That model will STILL sell great. Most people don't care about graphics. Lots of GAFers do, but most gamers aren't on GAF, and don't even know what a GAF is. Most gamers care about cost. 399 and 299 are both really attractive price points for what you're getting.

Soony™

 

[ZombAid82]

Do we have the numbers of this hot cake?

That's what would interest me, and furthermore, how much of these bad boy's went to PC-Gamer's?

 

[SmiteOfHand]

The ONLY time there has been a mid-cycle fragmentation of the userbase like this is the Sega 32X, which almost took down the entire company.

This is nothing like add-ons from the 90's, and does not fragment users the way those did at all. You won't need 2 different sets of games, the same game will run on both hardware. PS4 players will be able to play with PS4K and vice versa. People really need to stop using the 32x, it isn't even in the same ballpark.

 

[Mister Megative]

That talking point will be coming to an end eventually, according to some of the graphs we've seen from sales age

Ok.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

The issue for me is, if it's a significant upgrade, then it's the PS5 in all but name, but with the caveat of games being cross generational. However, if it's merely to leverage the uptake of 4k TVs, with less obvious benefits on 1080p sets, then all this outcry will soon be forgotten.

I'd be kidding myself if I didn't accept that I'd probably buy one, but I do feel there's a tacit agreement between consumer and manufacturer about the relative length of time a console will be considered the high point of a company's gaming output. If this does turn out to shift the way home consoles are marketed, with incremental upgrades expected every few years, then I'd be interested to see how many hold fire at the start of a genuinely new generation, knowing that by the time the better titles come out, a newer more powerful console will be approaching release.

I wonder what the knock on effect will be for PSVR; there must be a lot of people worried that their vanilla PS4 won't offer the performance they envisaged.

 

[wapplew]

I honestly think this will seriously damage the PS4s momentum. The only way they can even hope to come out of this unscathed is if they price drop the current PS4 even more.

Luckily I don't think the games I play on my PS4 (Japanese games, Indie games and Call of Duty) are at risk of getting downgraded. I also doubt many multiplatform games will suffer. I will still consider one though if it costs $399 with the same harddrive so I can easily swap my 2TB.

I think this will hurt PS5 potential momentum more. Because this time, many will wait for PS5.5

 

[JustenP88]

This guy gets it.

Yup. I fully expect this will sell at least just as well as vanilla PS4. That 399 price point is key. People are VASTLY underestimating what this thing will do saleswise as long as Sony ticks the right boxes. All the talk of "Sony/PS4 doomed" is nonsense.

Yes. If they can build what the OP claims at that target price. Holy shit. That's a tremendous value. If technology has moved to the point where this is possible, why wait a few more arbitrary years to release it while leaving the VR tech you invested heavily in to run on a severely gimped platform? Hurt feelings and jealousy? Screw that. The PS4 has a huge user base and they're not going to abandon that. I can't see the complaints that boil down to "but I paid $300 dollars to have the best console!" as anything other than childish.

If you bought a ps4 and trade it in/sell it for the new model, this will probably run you $200-$300. Given the amount of time I spend on my PS4, I'm fine with that value proposition. Especially if the product lives up to the rumor. Especially since I want PSVR to be as enjoyable as possible.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Why are people so quick to justify developer lack of optimization to console shortcomings?

May I remind you that Witcher 3 upon release had a ton of performance issues on PS4 and yet, after proper optimization, it now runs at an almost rock solid 30 fps?

And that is just one example, Borderlands is another as well.

You think all devs handle game development with the same attention and care?

You honestly would believe that Ubisoft maxed out PS4 and XB1 with Unity and that no other dev could do better?

I beg to differ...


Also, your case#2 isnt real. In that case PS4 version would run at 20 fps or at 25 fps with even bigger sacrfices. No dev is going to spend the same amount of time optimizing when he has 2 versions to make. Both versions will suffer, both machines will not exploit their true potential. PC gaming is here decades now to prove that this is how its going to go down. Its basically what was happening with the cross gen phase we had.

Yes i believe that UB max out PS4 with Unity because it's cpu is not very good.
Also that is how games are being made now if we talking about 3rd parties on the system .

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

And considering Sony's tardiness it'll probably be released next fall even if they plan for next spring.

 

[Mister Megative]

I honestly think this will seriously damage the PS4s momentum. The only way they can even hope to come out of this unscathed is if they price drop the current PS4 even more.

Luckily I don't think the games I play on my PS4 (Japanese games, Indie games and Call of Duty) are at risk of getting downgraded. I also doubt many multiplatform games will suffer. I will still consider one though if it costs $399 with the same harddrive so I can easily swap my 2TB.

I disagree handily about momentum, for the reasons I've already posted.

 

[Lemondish]

If it really does hinder the performance of games on the OG PS4, I'm out. I usually stay with the same console for 5 years or so. Outside of PS2 I almost never buy a console when it comes out. Only bought that because of the DVD player. It's the convenience of consoles that attracts me to gaming. With this new thinking that will be out of the question.

My PS4 is less than a year old. Now there will be a stronger model out there already? Yeah, no thanks. I'll just find something else to do. This remake/sequel generation is probably the worst when it comes to games (IMO), so it's not a big loss to me personally. The only sequel or series that I consistently play is GTA, and if they bring out a new model you just know that the game will be a horrible experience on the vanilla PS4.

I don't understand this perspective. It's so alien when you consider that everything we buy will eventually have a more powerful and better version in the future.

Hell, this is true for phones, TVs, vacation packages, university degrees, PC components, frozen pizzas, appliances, and dildos. Now that consoles are moving into this concept, you're dropping gaming?

 

[cr0w]

Agreed. I imagine there will be a crow post or two.

what?

 

[F4r0_Atak]

The only way they can even hope to come out of this unscathed is if they price drop the current PS4 even more and announce more First-party titles for this year's holiday.

This.

I will still consider one though if it costs $399 with the same harddrive so I can easily swap my 2TB.

This.

 

[outunderthestars]

I honestly think this will seriously damage the PS4s momentum. The only way they can even hope to come out of this unscathed is if they price drop the current PS4 even more.

Luckily I don't think the games I play on my PS4 (Japanese games, Indie games and Call of Duty) are at risk of getting downgraded. I also doubt many multiplatform games will suffer. I will still consider one though if it costs $399 with the same harddrive so I can easily swap my 2TB.

I could see a price drop to $299 for the PS4 along with a new bundled game and HDD bump to 1TB.

Also, Gamestop is going to go nuts with trade in promotions....

 

[Markoman]

Just in case this is an early April's fools joke....

I will use this post to show everyone in the inevitable "we got fooled" thread, that I was anticipating this.

Man, I'm good.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

And considering Sony's tardiness it'll probably be released next fall even if they plan for next spring.

This. They had planned an early 2016 for both PSVR and Media Molecule's Dreams BETA for early 2016. We know now that PSVR is set for an October release and that Dreams' could be set for this summer.

What if the ps4 could run star citizen?

Not happening. Not until PS5... bruh! XD

 

[Mister Megative]

Yes. If they can build what the OP claims at that target price. Holy shit. That's a tremendous value. If technology has moved to the point where this is possible, why wait a few more arbitrary years to release it while leaving the VR tech you invested heavily in to run on a severely gimped platform? Hurt feelings and jealousy? Screw that. The PS4 has a huge user base and they're not going to abandon that. I can't see the complaints that boil down to "but I paid $300 dollars to have the best console!" as anything other than childish.

If you bought a ps4 and trade it in/sell it for the new model, this will probably run you $200-$300. Given the amount of time I spend on my PS4, I'm fine with that value proposition. Especially if the product lives up to the rumor. Especially since I want PSVR to be as enjoyable as possible.

I won't lie; I was indignant when I first heard about this. But the more I think about it, the better I feel. Sony has a plan in store. As many have already stated, there's no way they OR developers are just gonna leave a 40 million plus userbase out in the rain. I DO feel they need to explain it before E3, but I'm feeling much more confident about all this.

 

[xinek]

Or because you value the simplicity/ease of use of a console - which is why I game on a ps4 primarily over a pc.
And you want the best graphics/most horsepower you can get in a console - why I game on ps4 over the xbox one.
For me an enhanced ps4 is perfect. Day one.
So fuck off with calling people idiots because of the platform they choose to game on.

Seriously. The cost of PC gaming isn't what keeps me away, it's the fucking around. I don't want to have to touch Windows, ever, or spend evenings sitting at a desk in front of a monitor like I did all day at work. PS4K is also a day one purchase for me. I get the complaints about potential user base fragmentation for sure, but the comparison to PC gaming is nonsensical IMO.

 

[Me_Marcadet]

I mostly buy my hardware +2 years into the lifecycle. So don't like this news at all.

I'm kind of fond of 6-8 year console cycles. I can understand PSVR being a potential gameshifter that needs better hardware, and I don't mind a PS4 version that can render in 4K, but if it makes PS4 titles run less well framerate wise I might be out.

The goal of the ps4k is to make the 6-8 years life cycle still a true thing. Without new hardware, the ps4 sales will start to decline massively next year and forward and there will be no incentives to still make games for the ps4. With a ps4k, interest in the platform is renewed and publishers can still target the whole platform for another two or three years.

There three options right now :

- releasing new hardware with generational leap every 6-8 years :

The good thing is that early adopters get their money worth and at the top of the game for a long time. The bad thing is that interest in the platform start to massively decrease mid gen and there's no incentives to create new experience, we get the same sequels every year until the next generational leap.

- releasing new hardware with generational leap every 4-5 years :

The good thing is that customer interest is always high and we get new experiences all the time. The bad thing is that development costs rise so fast that every publishers and devhouse can't keep up with it anymore and the industry collapse.

- releasing new platform with generational leap every 6-8 years with upgraded hardware within those :

The good thing is that you keep interest in your platform high all along the life of your platform, enthusiasts can spend a lot of money and be happy to, while more casual and cost sensitive customers could reap the benefit and enjoy new experiences way late in the life cycle thanks to all the money the enthusiasts spend.
The bad thing is that people with poor judgment skills, poorly informed or entitled as fuck will feel cheated, but who cares ?


The third scenario is what could save console gaming as we love it and enjoy it for decades. The goal is not to make everyone upgrade and gimp some users, the goal is to extract as much money you can from an audience wich is shrinking at an impressive rate.

 

[qa_engineer]

Didn't we start this shit? With the constant comparison videos...the framerate tests...the highlighting of the downgrades from initial footage?

How can people bitch and moan about performance issues with the current PS4 and then shit all over a new, improved model?

I realize performance has a lot to do with developers, but they can only do so much to solve the issues with such little power.

Because no one knows what they want but they also want everything at the same time.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

I won't lie; I was indignant when I first heard about this. But the more I think about it, the better I feel. Sony has a plan in store. As many have already stated, there's no way they OR developers are just gonna leave a 40 million plus userbase out in the rain. I DO feel they need to explain it before E3, but I'm feeling much more confident about all this.

Should be around end of April or early May (not sure if before Uncharted 4 release of May 10th, we'll see).

Because no one knows what they want but they also want everything at the same time.

Hence the complains... console makers offer them an additional option, but the Gaf consumer shits on it. XD

 

[Markoman]

Seriously. The cost of PC gaming isn't what keeps me away, it's the fucking around. I don't want to have to touch Windows, ever, or spend evenings sitting at a desk in front of a monitor like I did all day at work. PS4K is also a day one purchase for me. I get the complaints about potential user base fragmentation for sure, but the comparison to PC gaming is nonsensical IMO.

Still this? I would really love to invite you over to my place to show you how wrong you are....but I don't want to clean up just for that, sorry ;P

 

[Lemondish]

Baseless speculation.
The ONLY time there has been a mid-cycle fragmentation of the userbase like this is the Sega 32X, which almost took down the entire company.
Maybe also the Commodore Amiga 600, a stopgap between the A500 and 1200.

Name one stopgap thats gone down well.
Thats all this is, something with a "4K! Please buy our new TV's and blurays!" filler until the PS5 can actually do 4K gaming.

edit: no, new 3DS doesn't count. Not a console, did not cost £300/$300+

How is this fragmentation? Does every new GPU launch fragment the PC gaming userbase?

 

[Spaceking]

Everyone it's okay to be pissed or feel betrayed (I know I am a little bit) about the purchase of the current PS4 or XB1. Just imagine that you are now at Kaioken x2 and that with PS4K/XB1.5 you could get to Kaioken x4.

Haha right. But right now I feel more like Prince Vegeta. Betrayed.

I'm going to start saving for that PS4k.

 

[Sidewinder]

I honestly think this will seriously damage the PS4s momentum. The only way they can even hope to come out of this unscathed is if they price drop the current PS4 even more.

Luckily I don't think the games I play on my PS4 (Japanese games, Indie games and Call of Duty) are at risk of getting downgraded. I also doubt many multiplatform games will suffer. I will still consider one though if it costs $399 with the same harddrive so I can easily swap my 2TB.

Do you want to put your 2TB drive, which you're using in your PS4 right now into a new PS4.5? I doubt this will work, doesn't even work between two vanilla PS4s IIRC...

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

I cant even believe this would be considered, this wouldnt make sense at all, and would completely separate communities, create incompatibilities/bugs and so on...what a terrible Idea...Specially so early in life, 3 years from now, I'd accept, right now...a waste.

 

[Gumbie]

Just in case this is an early April's fools joke....

I will use this post to show everyone in the inevitable "we got fooled" thread, that I was anticipating this.

Man, I'm good.

I keep seeing this and I don't understand what the hell is an "Early April Fools Joke?" The whole point of April fools is having stuff done on April 1st. If people are going to start doing April fools jokes two days before why not a month before or 6 months before?.

 

[Peltz]

Seriously. The cost of PC gaming isn't what keeps me away, it's the fucking around. I don't want to have to touch Windows, ever, or spend evenings sitting at a desk in front of a monitor like I did all day at work. PS4K is also a day one purchase for me. I get the complaints about potential user base fragmentation for sure, but the comparison to PC gaming is nonsensical IMO.

I mean... If you don't like Windows that's one thing, but why do people still cite not wanting to sit in front of a computer monitor as a strike against PC gaming in this day and age? It's an objectively bad argument (not offense).

 

[scitek]

Seriously. The cost of PC gaming isn't what keeps me away, it's the fucking around. I don't want to have to touch Windows, ever, or spend evenings sitting at a desk in front of a monitor like I did all day at work. PS4K is also a day one purchase for me. I get the complaints about potential user base fragmentation for sure, but the comparison to PC gaming is nonsensical IMO.

This doesn't have to be a part of it, but I think you probably know that.

 

[AppleSeason]

The sad thing is that a revision feels... "necessary". PS4 is the first time for me that a console feels completely underpowered and suffering to move current titles. Like they screwed big time with the original hardware. Not that I am going to fall for it and cough 400€ again. I just feel fairly stupid for having bought a PS4 instead of a GTX 970 for the living room PC I was using for couch gaming.

 

[DasPenguin]

I don't understand this perspective. It's so alien when you consider that everything we buy will eventually have a more powerful and better version in the future.

Hell, this is true for phones, TVs, vacation packages, university degrees, PC components, frozen pizzas, appliances, and dildos. Now that consoles are moving into this concept, you're dropping gaming?

Did you really just compare electronics to a pizza? I have zero need to buy a new phone every year. My work computer is new and I upgrade it pretty much yearly (because I have to), but the computer I use otherwise is a Macbook from 2011. Have zero interest in upgrading as long as it is functional. Also my TV is good enough (to me) and I sure as hell don't buy a new one every two years. I think I bought mine in 2008 or 2009.

I've played video games for 30+ years. To say that this generation and all the sequels and remakes is a disappointment is an understatement of the year. Removing the convenience aspect is a big deal to me.

So yes, I really have zero interest in console gaming if it means I need to upgrade every 2-3 years from now on.

EDIT now if the vanilla PS4 will do its job and play all the games throughout the generation without issues, then I don't care if there's a more powerful option out there. But when it comes to massive games like GTA, I doubt that's gonna happen.

 

[johancruijff]

i wonder how strong the push from devs/pubs is for this and the the xb1.5

 

[Melchiah]

Still this? I would really love to invite you over to my place to show you how wrong you are....but I don't want to clean up just for that, sorry ;P

Well, I bought both Amnesias last year, but gave up on playing them after trying several times to get the Nvidia control panel to save the visual settings on my laptop. I recently updated the GPU driver, and the problem seems to be gone now, but I still can't set UT2003 to run with anti-aliasing.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Did you really just compare electronics to a pizza? I have zero need to by a new phone every year. My work computer is new and I upgrade it pretty much yearly (because I have to), but the computer I use otherwise is a Macbook from 2011. Have zero interest in upgrading as long as it is functional. Also my TV is good enough (to me) and I sure as hell don't buy a new one every two years. I think I bought mine in 2008 or 2009.

And your PS4 from 2013 will work and continue to work and be supported. If you can see how those other devices don't require an upgrade as soon as the new thing is out, why can't you see it here?

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

Do you want to put your 2TB drive, which you're using in your PS4 right now into a new PS4.5? I doubt this will work, doesn't even work between two vanilla PS4s IIRC...

I'd have to go through the whole rigamarole of formating it and reinstalling it but it should still work, if it uses the same hd.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

Do you want to put your 2TB drive, which you're using in your PS4 right now into a new PS4.5? I doubt this will work, doesn't even work between two vanilla PS4s IIRC...

This can work if you backup the data... no?

EDIT: Source - http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps4/settings/backup.html

You can back up data that is saved on your PS4™ system to a USB storage device and restore the backup data to the system. This operation is useful when replacing the hard disk, or replacing or transferring ownership of your PS4™ system. We recommend that you back up your PS4™ system regularly.

The system software on the PS4™ system to which data will be restored must be the same version as the system software on the PS4™ system from which the data was backed up, or the system to which data will be restored must have the latest system software installed.

 

[HF2014]

I just hope it fails. Seriously. I just dont want to see that happening.

 

[wapplew]

The sad thing is that a revision feels... "necessary". PS4 is the first time for me that a console feels completely underpowered and suffering to move current titles. Like they screwed big time with the original hardware. Not that I am going to fall for it and cough 400€ again. I just feel fairly stupid for having bought a PS4 instead of a GTX 970 for the living room PC I was using for couch gaming.

And we will say the same thing again 2 years after PS4K launch.

 

[CheDominik]

Still this? I would really love to invite you over to my place to show you how wrong you are....but I don't want to clean up just for that, sorry ;P

Just because you can do it, doesn't make it viable for everyone. My computer is in my home office while the big TV is in my living room. So unless I want to have a 90ft HDMI cable lying around, would have to buy a dedicated gaming PC in a small case to put in my living room which seems kind of wasteful or buy an overpriced gaming laptop.

And playing on my PC just kind of feels different, maybe I have PTSD from the early 90's with all the IRQ conflicts and autoexec.bat and config.sys meddling.