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[Vol5]

Is there a chance that this whole thing could be a ruse by Sony to push MS into a new console? Sounds daft perhaps, but I'm struggling with the point of PS4K.

Maybe leaking these falsehoods forces MS into a position of rushing the XO iteration and also to a certain extent might alienate the XO community into buying a PS4. It's also been soft-leaked. Only the hardcore really care about the news so leaking it like this would hardly put a dent into sales considering its moved or moving into the casual space.

Pure denial on my part lol

 

[Risk Breaker]

You have no clue if that is the case.

N3DS WE HAD NO clue Hyrule warriors would run like shit on 3DS but like butter on N3DS. It was kind of baffling seeing xenoblade chronicles only playable on the newer model, since 3DS has such a big install base.

You can't predict what or won't be. ANd seeing as history has shown us, and as VCC commented on, it could go south very quickly. ANd it only takes one game to do it.

Yes we had clues. The N3DS has more ram AND a better CPU AND a faster GPU IIRC. The PS4K would most likely just have a faster gpu, which is a lot more easier to scale than cpu or ram limitations.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

So then why release PSVR first, if it's being optimized for PS4K? So we can't get the best experience at launch?

Christmas rush.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

Yeah the thing is not everyone will want to consistently upgrade their consoles, especially when their hardware still can play newest games.

Of course - But this problem started when Sony started to make profit on the consoles as well. They wouldn't do it if systems were sold at a loss (like the PS3).

 

[Elandyll]

Why is there an assumption there's going to be a PS5 in the sense of a traditional generation? We're already showing this isn't a traditional generation, so there's no safe assumption a PS5 is going to be what we expect out of a traditional console generation.

It's all rumors and assumptions so far.

While MS has definitely hinted at moving toward a purely PC/ Win10 architecture which they have a vested interest in doing, it remains to be seen if Sony is going the same way (while the PS4 is definitely PCish) so for now at least it seems reasonable to me to think that there will be a PS5, specially when Mark Cerny is touring studios atm.

 

[MADGAME]

Is it possible the strategy of the upcoming PS4k iteration is truly to support VR experiences and push that technology, with the side effect of playing games better but not become an ongoing practice? Or will this become standard procedure and we end up with step-iterations like the PS5k 2.5C+ ?

 

[wapplew]

Yeah the thing is not everyone will want to consistently upgrade their consoles, especially when their hardware still can play newest games.

Which is why I think adoption rate of PS4K and what comes after it will be much slower than a traditional generation model.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Only two of those allowed an increase in performance. Only one of those has actually utilized that increase in performance and it's still only a handful of cases. Despite Nintendo releasing mid generation updates that increase the hardware performance, it's gone way under utilized. So are you we suggesting that nobody is going to take advantage of the hardware in the PS4K?

Well, that's even worse, no? If you release hardware improved revisions that you barely make use of, that sucks. The problem is that the original 3ds can barely run hyrule warriors, not the fact that the N3DS runs it better.

In Nintendo's case the revisions not only brought better specs but vastly improved controls, battery life or screens, which IMHO is as important as graphics in a handheld. I can definitely say that friends who bought the 3DS at launch were disappointed when the XL was announced.

 

[Papacheeks]

Yes we had clues. The N3DS has more ram AND a better CPU AND a faster GPU IIRC. The PS4K would most likely just have a faster gpu, which is a lot more easier to scale than cpu or ram limitations.

So people knew how Hyrule warriors would run on 3DS? People in a store, or reviewers sent a copy, would know it was going to run like shit on 3DS?

Really?

I think your confusing the knowledge of GAF, with outside knowledge as if what we know is known everywhere in stores, on review sites?

Adding another sku doesn't take away from the simplicity unless you are a monkey. I like how you didn't mention the 360 in your post though because it definitely had amazing specs when it launched and it pleased graphic whores like me plenty.

I've owned consoles way before I ever had my first pc and I will probably always play consoles. That doesn't mean I need to be okay with crap specs. You speak as if "console" is an excuse or justification for under powered and it isn't. The way you are so willing to just accept anything is what makes you a true console gamer I guess lol.

So you were not satisfied with OG xbox, PS2? I never said consoles can't have amazing specs, I'm saying though they've never really needed them to the extent people are complaining on here. And my evidence is developers would have jumped on to PC and made console style games on PC. INSTEAD of GEX the geko on PS1 it's on PC exclusively. instead of debuting Ninja Gaiden on xbox it would have been on pc.

As long as games are innovative in some way shape or form that's to me all that matters. If specs really mattered to indie developers then they wouldn't bother with consoles at all. That tech in 360 would have come no matter what they were already making dual core cpu's when that released. And when Core 2 duo released PC really took off. ANd they skipped mostly having three core cpu's like xb360's was, and went straight into quad.

 

[oni-link]

I hope the PS4K comes with a huge HD upgrade, give me 4/5TB, or at the very least allow external storage

 

[mckmas8808]

You think so?
Why buy something potentially weaker than something a couple years later for the same price?

Also this year looks to be the year most have been really have been waiting for with all the hyped games rolling out.

It seems like you answered your own question.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

I think a PS4K would make sense if it:

1. Plays 4K Blu-Ray
2. It upscales all games to 4K
3. Nothing else

If it splits the PS4 audience in two tiers master race/poor man's console then it is a bad idea.

 

[Dabanton]

Is there a chance that this whole thing could be a ruse by Sony to push MS into a new console? Sounds daft perhaps, but I'm struggling with the point of PS4K.

Maybe leaking these falsehoods forces MS into a position of rushing the XO iteration and also to a certain extent might alienate the XO community into buying a PS4. It's also been soft-leaked. Only the hardcore really care about the news so leaking it like this would hardly put a dent into sales considering its moved or moving into the casual space.

Pure denial on my part lol

Seems more about their VR ambitions and having some more power to push those games.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I kind of hate this idea. Makes me feel like my purchase of a PS4 a year ago to play Bloodborne was invalid.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It's all rumors and assumptions so far.

While MS has definitely hinted at moving toward a purely PC/ Win10 architecture which they have a vested interest in doing, it remains to be seen if Sony is going the same way (while the PS4 is definitely PCish) so for now at least it seems reasonable to me to think that there will be a PS5, specially when Mark Cerny is touring studios atm.

Well what I'm getting at is you can't say devs are going to target a PS4 until the PS5 comes around and everyone shifts to that if you don't know what a PS5 is going to be or if we still have the notion of generations. There's no guarantee that is how developers are going to target their efforts because nothing is guaranteed anymore. Nobody knows how things are going to play out anymore. One of the reasons people aren't pleased is because there are so many questions and a lot of uncertainty that Sony is introducing into the console business model with this move.

 

[CyberChulo]

What do you mean by compare? I'd personally take Pillars of Eternity over any PS4 exclusive outside of Bloodborne...games like Wasteland 2, XCOM 2, Undertale..and coming this year, Planet Coaster!



Maybe you should, get some great games for great prices on steam.

Those games are not in the same genre as the ones I listed. If people here are saying just go to build a PC route, they will be missing out on Sony exclusive games that may never come to PC. That is my point. Who wouldn't want to play the games I listed with better FPS or graphics?

 

[Bits N Pieces]

How long do we think this thread will stay on the front page?

The thirst is real .....?

 

[Marty Chinn]

Well, that's even worse, no? If you release hardware improved revisions that you barely make use of, that sucks. The problem is that the original 3ds can barely run hyrule warriors, not the fact that the N3DS runs it better.

In Nintendo's case the revisions not only brought better specs but vastly improved controls, battery life or screens, which IMHO is as important as graphics in a handheld. I can definitely say that friends who bought the 3DS at launch were disappointed when the XL was announced.

While I fear the Hyrule Warrior example becomes more frequent with the PS4/PS4K, I would hope that the PS4K ends up being like Nintendo's revisions where they are inconsequential because nobody really utilized it and it went pretty much ignored. That is better than getting a bunch of Hyrule Warrior examples getting released.

 

[Risk Breaker]

So people knew how Hyrule warriors would run on 3DS? People in a store, or reviewers sent a copy, would know it was going to run like shit on 3DS?

Really?

I think your confusing the knowledge of GAF, with outside knowledge as if what we know is known everywhere in stores, on review sites?

Well, yeah, I'm mostly talking about GAF. It's not too surprising if a musou game, which are kinda cpu intensive, that also is also shared with the Wii U, would run worse on the 3DS than the N3DS. It sucks that the performance is so bad. And it would also suck if, for example, the PS4K had a better cpu and that meant GT Sport was 60 fps there but only 30 fps on PS4. It would be awful and that's why I hope they don't touch the CPU much, as slow as it might be.

 

[mckmas8808]

Maybe PSVR actually works just fine with the PS4 and people are freaking out for no reason?

THIS!

 

[Ensoul]

"Instead of waiting 10 years between cycles"? When have they ever done that? They may have supported consoles for 10 years, but a generation has never been more than 6-7 years. So your "PS4 3.0" doesn't seem likely to ever exist. PS4 (3.5 years) + PS4.5 (3.5 years) = 7 years, and then (at the latest) we'll get the PS5. That's what I believe.

Fair enough. I just rounded up 360 was still doing okay up until around 2014.

Why can't the ps4 be considered the ps5 though?

 

[Demanufacture]

Those games are not in the same genre as the ones I listed. If people here are saying just go to build a PC route, they will be missing out on Sony exclusive games that may never come to PC. That is my point. Who wouldn't want to play the games I listed with better FPS or graphics?

So what they are different genre :/ I wouldn't mind, but I'd rather play them on my PS4 and spend more on a Pascal graphics card which will wipe the floor with PS4K.

 

[mckmas8808]

Just to follow up on this... looking at the code, these functions aren't implemented on every platform. In public code to date, on Mac and Windows, but not iOS/Android as far as I can tell. And they seem to be precisely the kind of functions you'd use to determine codepath switches depending on GPU/CPU type at runtime...

But maybe still a coincidence

I think you are REALLY on to something. Great catch.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Fair enough. I just rounded up 360 was still doing okay up until around 2014.

The reality is though why can't the ps4 be considered the ps5 though?

Because the same disc would work on both models and it would be the same game, man

 

[CyberChulo]

How long do we think this thread will stay on the front page?

The thirst is real .....?

Lol. I'm real thirsty. I got 3 PS4's ready to trade them in to get a better system and keep on gaming.

 

[CyberPunked]

PC gaming has been held back by PC gaming!

Devs can't just make a game that only work on high end PCs because that market is small & the devs would just lose money trying to target the high end only. Consoles is a big reason why PC games are getting bigger games now.

This is nonsense. Scalability is the brilliance of PC gaming; reduce particular graphical effects for lower end hardware, and add, and improve the quality for those with the higher end hardware.

I don't need to mention the amount of games that have been reduced in scale and complexity for consoles.

 

[Swass]

So I assume this is going to be the new new thing now? Instead of waiting 10 years between cycles they are going to do incremental updates every few years?


I guess it will be something like this:

Ps4 Plays ps4 games
Ps4 2.0 Plays ps4 and ps4 2.0 games
Ps4 3.0 Plays P4 3.0 abd 2.0 games (not ps4 games)

No, I believe
it will be forward and backward compatible similar to iOS and android.. The hardware will just determine how well the games perform.

 

[HanShotFirst]

Definitely something Sony has to have a clear message on. As long as the graphics aren't terrible, and the framerate is stable I dont think owners of launch ps4s are going have to worry. however Sony needs to make it clear that there will be no exclusives for PS4k and the disadvantages of the original ps4 will be negligible.

 

[Papacheeks]

Because the same disc would work on both models and it would be the same game, man

So you can put a Ultra buray disc in a non-ultra bluray player?

This is nonsense. Scalability is the brilliance of PC gaming; reduce particular graphical effects for lower end hardware, and add, and improve the quality for those with the higher end hardware.

I don't need to mention the amount of games that have been reduced in scale and complexity for consoles.

And yet they still turned out brilliant go figure. Most of them anyway.

 

[CyberChulo]

So what they are different genre :/ I wouldn't mind, but I'd rather play them on my PS4 and spend more on a Pascal graphics card which will wipe the floor with PS4K.

But I won't have those games to play if I abandon the PS4.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

No, I believe
it will be forward and backward compatible similar to iOS and android.. The hardware will just determine how well the games perform.

I couldn't download MGS5's iOS app, because my iPhone 5c "is too old" and not supported.

 

[Godaisempai]

 

[CyberPunked]

And yet they still turned out brilliant go figure. Most of them anyway.

It's all relative. They could have been better, we'll never know.

 

[XxRampage07xX]

Of course - But this problem started when Sony started to make profit on the consoles as well. They wouldn't do it if systems were sold at a loss (like the PS3).

It can be the reason but I want to argue that it might also come from their intentions of expanding their console's market share.

I think a PS4K would make sense if it:

1. Plays 4K Blu-Ray
2. It upscales all games to 4K
3. Nothing else

If it splits the PS4 audience in two tiers master race/poor man's console then it is a bad idea.

I actually want the PS4K to perform games better so that people who prefer high performance on PC to on consoles but also like the simplicity and ease of use that are found on consoles are able to consider the PS4K as an option.

 

[Ensoul]

Because the same disc would work on both models and it would be the same game, man

True but I think it is clear the sony is trying to keep up with PC. It would not shock me at all of there was no ps5 so to speak and every few years they just upgrade the hardware.

Interesting if nothing else to see where this goes.

 

[Demanufacture]

But I won't have those games to play if I abandon the PS4.

True, I guess you care about those games way more than I do. I much prefer the freedom and openness of the PC platform over some games I'm missing out on.

I'd also miss out on some of my favourite games ever If i was solely a console gamer.

 

[To Far Away Times]

If this PS4K thing is true what a terrible generation to be an early adopter.

That'll definatey burn some bridges.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

It can be the reason but I want to argue that it might also come from their intentions of expanding their console's market share.


I actually want the PS4K to perform games better so that people who prefer high performance on PC to on consoles but also like the simplicity and ease of use that are found on consoles are able to consider the PS4K as an option.

In my simple brain PC and console gamers are not intertwined

But seriously, PC gamers who spend 2k on a PC will not be impressed by a 500 dollar PS4.

 

[joecanada]

Yeah the thing is not everyone will want to consistently upgrade their consoles, especially when their hardware still can play newest games.

well then if the PS4K doesn't sell a bunch it isn't going to get a ton of games just for it will it?
Everyone expects whats already happening to continue, ps4 gets all the games, ps4K gets some tweaks if they are lucky. no big deal. the biggest market will always win out.

That's still no reason for them not to try a deluxe model of their hardware.

 

[orochi91]

So what they are different genre :/ I wouldn't mind, but I'd rather play them on my PS4 and spend more on a Pascal graphics card which will wipe the floor with PS4K.

I can't tell if you're advocating for a PC-only approach or console(s) alongside with a PC, lol

Better graphics are nice, but that Pascal card won't be running any games exclusive to consoles. I understand you probably don't care for them, but clearly many folks do. Personally, I'm not gonna pass up Nintendo or Sony 1st-party games, especially AAA games. My PC can play everything else not tied to a console.

 

[CyberChulo]

True, I guess you care about those games way more than I do. I much prefer the freedom and openness of the PC platform over some games I'm missing out on.

I'd also miss out on some of my favourite games ever If i was solely a console gamer.

That's why I have both. Plus Xbox One and Wii U.

Edit - But I have been gaming on the PS4 more lately. Especially EDF 4.1!

 

[Elandyll]

Those games are not in the same genre as the ones I listed. If people here are saying just go to build a PC route, they will be missing out on Sony exclusive games that may never come to PC. That is my point. Who wouldn't want to play the games I listed with better FPS or graphics?

My point is mostly common sense, as it would imo make little to start aiming for the more niche high end target with no existing user base and very likely to remain the minority, when you have a likely 55m userbase (by end of '16) on the PS4.

Will things be strained by the end of the gen on both? Probably, but that's to be expected, as again we're not talking about a generational change.

 

[pixelation]

I can't tell if you're advocating for a PC-only approach or console(s) alongside with a PC, lol

Better graphics are nice, but that Pascal card won't be running any games exclusive to consoles. I understand you probably don't care for them, but clearly many folks do. Personally, I'm not gonna pass up Nintendo or Sony 1st-party games, especially AAA games. My PC can play everything else not tied to a console.

Preach my man!

 

[dalin80]

Well this guarantees I won't be dropping any money on a PS5.

I simply can't see myself getting another console at this point, NMS is the only title coming that interests me and this decision makes me doubt that I would risk getting another console, If I wanted to spend that sort of money that often I would invest it in my PC.

 

[Demanufacture]

I can't tell if you're advocating for a PC-only approach or console(s) alongside with a PC, lol

Better graphics are nice, but that Pascal card won't be running any games exclusive to consoles. I understand you probably don't care for them, but clearly many folks do. Personally, I'm not gonna pass up Nintendo or Sony 1st-party games, especially AAA games. My PC can play everything else not tied to a console.

Nah I do care for console exclusives but If I had to choose between a PS4k and a PC? PC all the damn way.

 

[kng3025]

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. So far, Sony has done a great job of selling ps4s and having an overall positive image and haven't fumbled as much as Microsoft have with the xb1. This could be the thing that trips Sony up and create a lot of sour customers if it's not essentially a ps4 slim with some upgrades. As a huge God of War fan, if the rumors of it being better on ps4k or whatever end up being true , blood will be shed.

Spoiler

in the game of course. I'd still get it on the og ps4

 

[kaching]

If this PS4K thing is true what a terrible generation to be an early adopter.

That'll definatey burn some bridges.

Really? If anything, better to be an early adopter than anything else.

Speaking for myself, as an early adopter, I'm perfectly fine with this news.

 

[krang]

Really? If anything, better to be an early adopter than anything else.

Speaking for myself, as an early adopter, I'm perfectly fine with this news.

Yep. Better than someone I know who only bought a PS4 in January this year. What a chump.

 

[Corto]

Just to follow up on this... looking at the code, these functions aren't implemented on every platform. In public code to date, on Mac and Windows, but not iOS/Android as far as I can tell. And they seem to be precisely the kind of functions you'd use to determine codepath switches depending on GPU/CPU type at runtime...

But maybe still a coincidence

The thick plottens!

Great catch.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Really? If anything, better to be an early adopter than anything else.

Speaking for myself, as an early adopter, I'm perfectly fine with this news.

I'm an "early adopter" and feel the same way.

Also, if this thing comes out 3+ years after the original PS4 launch, can anyone really use the "screwing the early adopter" argument?