Memento Mori
Member
>Cyclops- "The Phoenix Force is here to possess Hope and restart the mutant race".
>Phoenix Force possesses Hope and restarts mutant race.
> Cyclops was right.
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X-Men movies' Cyclops is a complete loser.
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>Cyclops- "The Phoenix Force is here to possess Hope and restart the mutant race".
>Phoenix Force possesses Hope and restarts mutant race.
> Cyclops was right.
But if anyone had actually stopped and listened to him, how would we have gotten a summer event comic?
Bumping this question 'cause I kinda also want to know. People usually say annual events are always bad, so outside of that is there any good "new" Cyclops arc?
When Cyclops started being the center of attention in X-Men books it was the start of the decline of the X-Men franchise. They went from being the best selling team in comics to becoming insignificant. Focusing on Cyclops is one of the biggest mistakes in comic history.
I will never understand any popularity for this loser. Cyclops was one of the worst characters in comics that needed to be buried, not elevated.
I will never understand any popularity for this loser. Cyclops was one of the worst characters in comics that needed to be buried, not elevated.
I forgot where I read this but it was a post that basically mirrored yours. 'Wolverine is simultaneously lecherous, houndog that gets all the girls and the somber, romantic. He is both the murderous psychopath and the honorable duelist. He is both the loner who wants to be alone and the leader who brings the X-men together. He is a samurai, ninja, strategist--'
I like Wolverine but dear GOD, did they Mary Sue the fuck out of him.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
-Exciting story ideas getting nipped in the bud by money-hungry editors/executives
-Continuity that's convoluted to the point it's nonsensical
-Hack creators ruining beloved stories and characters
-A major story made for the purpose of fixing what those aforementioned hacks broke
-Lead creative not so subtly inserting his own sexual predilections into his work
-Other characters' being shafted in favor of Wolverine
-Cyclops is a weenie
Yet apparently people think that the X-Men movies aren't good adaptations just because they all run around in black leather instead of yellow spandex...
-Continuity that's convoluted to the point it's nonsensical
-Hack creators ruining beloved stories and characters
-A major story made for the purpose of fixing what those aforementioned hacks broke
-Lead creative not so subtly inserting his own sexual predilections into his work
-Other characters' being shafted in favor of Wolverine
-Cyclops is a weenie
Yet apparently people think that the X-Men movies aren't good adaptations just because they all run around in black leather instead of yellow spandex...
BattleMonkey
Member
The point was no one was right, Hope wasn't ready for it without coming to terms on her own about the whole thing. Cyclops plan was gonna likely fail.
Yo brah, explain when this happened.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Happened right around 1964.
BKatastrophe
Member
From House of M and onward, Scott had started to become much colder and much more willing to do very scummy things in order to keep mutants alive. Black ops X-Force, for example. Even during all that, though, he was still a good, strong leader who wanted to protect his race. However, AvX is a giant masterclass work in character assassination, where they make him out to be totally insane. After that, he became a revolutionary, which is what Bendis' Uncanny X-Men is about. Basically showing the world that mutants are not to be fucked with. Thing is, he really doesn't become like Magneto. Mags was a terrorist who used violent means to essentially force others into giving him his own nation. In doing so, he painted mutants in a very bad light.
Scott's idea was that he wanted to show that mutants are not inherently bad and just want to live in peace. However, if you fuck with them, they will hit back. Eventually Scott realized he fucked up, and makes amends in the end. Currently,
he's dead after apparently trying to commit genocide against the Inhumans. The details have yet to be elaborated upon
WrenchNinja
Member
Phoenix force destroys a bunch of planets on its way to earth, you cannot seriously believe Cyclops' hunch just because he fucked some broads he's suddenly an expert on the whims of a cosmic entity. Hope wasn't ready for that shit when it was coming. Happy accident is exactly what it is.
I bet you Stewart's Xavier felt the same way. But his legs, they don't work...
Not before she got schooled by Wanda, Iron Fist and Spider-Man to find her inner zen.
Cyclops knew jack shit. After Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run he became boring. Him and Grant Morrison portrayed Scott as a dude who always had trouble to convince himself that he was good enough to lead. But when the team needed him, he pulled through. That's what I liked about Summers. After M-Day though, he got a bit too confident to my liking. Made some dumb decisions. And I dunno, he's not that interesting.
I think young Cyclops is better. The Young Cyclops series where he travels wilt Corsair was baller as fuck. Bring back that series. Made Cyclops cool again.
As for movie Scott, they don't do him any justice.
BKatastrophe
Member
Listen to this.
RapidCancel
Member
One thing I was wondering about AvX, has the Phoenix Force ever come to Earth looking to destroy it? I thought every time, it was coming looking for a host. So why was everyone freaking out acting like the Earth was about to get blown up?
agentofatlas
Member
Nah. Cyke was right. As for training, Scott had probably the best trainer availbe for Hope in the form of Rachel Grey. Too bad they forgot about her in the Marvel offices.
AvX was trash on myriad levels...and yes it's ridiculous how the Phoenix is treated as evil/destructive by default...ignoring the other side of its duality, and supposed geniuses(Tony Stark), poking at what they don't fully understand, with sticks like confused cavemen
*Edit*
And who the hell asked for all things Phoenix to be further mucked up by tying it up with the Iron Fist mythos, and who the hell asked for a Fong-Ji or whatever her name is
Such editorially pushed crap to further prop up the Avengers, and make the X-Men/mutants look bad
*Edit*
And who the hell asked for all things Phoenix to be further mucked up by tying it up with the Iron Fist mythos, and who the hell asked for a Fong-Ji or whatever her name is
Such editorially pushed crap to further prop up the Avengers, and make the X-Men/mutants look bad
agentofatlas
Member
It really was stupid. Also the avengers training Hope to host the Phoenix instead of the X-men pretty insulting for X-men fans in general. The best thing about the event though was the "Cyclops was right" thing. You could tell marvel didn't really see that coming lol.
roflwaffles
Member
He sorta started post-House of M where Scarlet Witch wiped out 99% of the mutant gene and there were like 300 mutants left on the planet. Eventually he evolves more and more into a more Magneto-like mindset because he realizes Xavier's dream isn't worth dick.
Rachel abandoned Cykes in the end as well. Even if Rachel would train her, I'm pretty sure she would have seen where this was heading towards.
BKatastrophe
Member
Because every time Phoenix took a host, bad shit happened. EXCEPT for Rachel Grey, I think. I didn't read much of the 80's stuff past Dark Phoenix Saga.
They remembered her for some post-AvX stuff.
SenatorBot
Member
Cyclops was a guy who tried to appeal to peace as much as he could but due to No more mutants and anti mutant organisations attacking them nonstop, they're forced to defend themselves to stop being extinct. Not to mention the avengers never helped at all so the X-men had to rely on themselves for everything.
In the end he basically said, hey we're going to be our own country and we want to live in peace but if you attack us we will defend ourselves which is justified. Then take a look at AvX where the Avengers brought the entire superhero community onto the island and instead of talking demanded Cyclops to give up or they will apprehend everyone on the island. Also Wolverine was also buddies with the avengers and he was the one who wanted to fight instead of talking too.
Cyclops has seen Magneto's and Xavier's visions and realise that both have good points but have weak points as well and chose to adapt both their visions into one that will do his best into saving the mutant race.
In the end he basically said, hey we're going to be our own country and we want to live in peace but if you attack us we will defend ourselves which is justified. Then take a look at AvX where the Avengers brought the entire superhero community onto the island and instead of talking demanded Cyclops to give up or they will apprehend everyone on the island. Also Wolverine was also buddies with the avengers and he was the one who wanted to fight instead of talking too.
Cyclops has seen Magneto's and Xavier's visions and realise that both have good points but have weak points as well and chose to adapt both their visions into one that will do his best into saving the mutant race.
Well, specifically he makes a pragmatic decision to be more aggressive on the world's stage because he's painfully aware that if everyone wearing an X doesn't go in hard on anyone threatening mutant kind, all the remaining mutants will be genocided by the multitudes of hate groups and super villains who already smell blood in the water.
When your perceived options are "become what you hate" and "everyone you know and love will die" become what you hate doesn't look so bad.
Hellwarden
Member
Doesn't Wolverine always lose in the end?
You would think he and Cyke could relate as huge losers.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The didn't really? All the character designs were pretty much copied wholesale from the Jim Lee era.
The only exception was the cooler looking sentinel.
agentofatlas
Member
What are you talking about? She sides with Cykes during the conflict. Only when Stark messed up and the Phoenix possessed Cyke did she go against him. So in actuality, she was in on Cykes original plan.
"In the end"
That's not true, or else the Shi'ar would have collectively shat an egg the very moment they knew of Phoenix/Jean during the M'kraan crystal incident. Rachel also had her memories suppressed and unknowingly had the original consciousness from Phoenix/Jean watching over her...when it returned to it's natural state and Rachel regained her memories, her access to the Phoenix Force was drastically reduced...this lasted all of about 10 issues anyway b4 she was forced into the timestream by taking Captain Britain's place
agentofatlas
Member
radios shipping overview
Member
Okay, is the idea of Prof X being an asshole a theme that was common through 80s and 90s X-Men comics, or is it something that was retroactively worked in as some 00s-era "I hate you dad" edginess? I remember him being pretty genuinely benevolent in the comics that I read.
No he wasn'tYup. In the end Scott was right about everything.
now there's M-Pox
Damn scummy Mutants
No lies detected.
Indeed. Marvel events in the past few years have been a lottery of "who to write out of character so shit can happen". With Cyclops, it was the moment he shot at Cap outside Utopia. You can pinpoint many of these OOC-moments with tons of characters.
crimzonflame
Member
Post the pic where he's making out on top of his dead wife's grave.
Cyclops was right.
Rachel was the best Phoenix Host, she should have trained Hope instead of Wanda, Iron Fist or Spider-Man.
You mean while he was telepathically controlled by said dead wife?
Rachel was the best Phoenix Host, she should have trained Hope instead of Wanda, Iron Fist or Spider-Man.
You mean while he was telepathically controlled by said dead wife?
Not controlled per se, but yes...Scott/Emma being a thing only happened because Jean made it so...because otherwise he was swallowed up by grief and "Here Comes Tomorrow" happened
But this was awesome because it eventually gave us Spider-sensei providing Hope with wisdom.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Wolverine's fucked like, what, 90% the Marvel female cast?
Cyclops' one girl is known for only two things: going psycho and dying.
I know who's the winner there.
BKatastrophe
Member
The Shi'ar are fucked as a collective. I mean, they were going to kill Jean for the Dark Phoenix stuff even though it technically wasn't Jean's fault. Then Gladiator goes and attempts to murder Jean's entire bloodline as a result, in a fucked up attempt to eliminate the Phoenix Force. This includes Young Jean, who he put on trial despite even J'Sonn saying it was a bad idea, and he's dumb as fuck.
The Shi'ar also did the whole Vulcan thing. Using the Shi'ar as a basis is not the best. Basically, Jean Grey was the Avengers entire basis. The Phoenix is basically a force of nature that, while neither malevolent nor benevolent, can deal major damage and leave a ton of shit in its wake. Which happens more often than it should. Now, the thing is, there was proof that the Phoenix wasn't entirely bad, but it was insanely powerful and the Avengers have trust issues. Apparently the one time that the Avengers wanted to get involved in X-Men affairs, it was to completely and totally control them.
"Tell that to Uncle Ben."
Trust me i'm no fan of the Shi'ar...but, and this is one reason why retcons suck(like that Rook'shir/Blade of the Phoenix/Blue Echo crap), it makes no sense if, "every" manifestation of the Phoenix results in "bad shit happening", they wouldn't have been so chill during the original saga.
Also, Jean aside, the Avengers still had to know of Rachel as Phoenix.
And lastly, when dealing with a cosmic force, "bad shit" is all relative. In the original story, before going off into Shi'ar space, she told the X-Men she was off to fulfill her "Malefic destiny". If she just wanted to eat stars, the sun was a hell of a lot closer...so why D'bari? Morrison's run added that the Phoenix "burns away what doesn't work", and also eliminating species deemed as obsolescent. To put it in terms of our own evolution, let's say a cosmic force nudged the fateful asteroid that killed the dinosaurs...horrible for them, yay for us.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Nah, Triage appeared too. It's because Bachalo is the artist, and he did co-create them with Bendis, and god knows when we'll see them again.
Memento Mori
Member
Triage just appeared in the new Uncanny X-Men series. Goldballs is apparently going to be a recurring character in Spider-Man.
BKatastrophe
Member
Good points, but it's all part of why AvX was such a terrible fucking event. Although, I never took it as the Shi'ar being chill, just more concerned with their own bullshit. That was when Lilandra was attempting to take back rulership, yeah? They were completely out of wack at that point.
I'll trade wait, but goddamnit now I have to read that series.
Also Triage ain't done shit either. Xorn has done more than Triage.
And what they did to Elixir was a fucking crime.
Yeah, that editorial mandate made Claremont furious. If he'd had his way, Cyclops would've rode off into the sunset with his wife and family and happily retired.
But we all know nothing good can ever happen to mainstream comic book heroes. They were made to suffer.
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