spazchicken
Member
I was one of those people (I did end up buying a WiiU) but that was when the PS4 was new.
Coming out with something as powerful as something we've had now for three years isn't enough anymore.
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If Nintendo invests in outstanding hardware yet still fails to win over 3rd parties..
- Thread starter mikefrails
- Start date
Coming out with something as powerful as something we've had now for three years isn't enough anymore.
SinCityAssassin
Member
It really does depend on what Nintendo themselves are able to put out, either through their own teams or through a third party developer for their IP. If the games they make keep coming out and are quality, I will keep buying.
Unknown One
Member
Probably needs more like free online on par with PSN/XBLive and third party games.
binarymelon
Member
This is why 3rd parties will continue to ignore Nintendo consoles. They will throw some feelers out after the launch but if their games don't sell they won't continue to release them on the NX. I'm not sure they can right the ship at this point.
deadscreensky
Member
Nintendo doesn't want to compete with third parties. They aren't going to "win them over", at best they'll get some significant token effort (ideally exclusives) and then go back to selling their Mario games to a deliberately starved audience.
i personally don't really give a shit whether nintendo consoles have third party support or not. i'll play those games on pc/ps4/xbone
but I don't represent the mass market. if nintendo doesn't get third party support, they're fucked and won't sell much more than the wii u did.
but I don't represent the mass market. if nintendo doesn't get third party support, they're fucked and won't sell much more than the wii u did.
Ninja Scooter
Member
People already have no shortage of ways to play those games. If Nintendo thinks they are going to get hardcore gamers to drop their Playstations and Xboxes in favor of an NX just by offering parity they are going to be sorely mistaken. They need to do something completely outside of the box, not chase an over-saturated market.
spazchicken
Member
If you look, you can see a perfect spot where the Wii should have fit in to make the perfect stair step effect.This, I hate saying this but Nintendo has been going down hill and should go third party, they don't have any real purpose in the console space, I mean all they have for E3 is Zelda? Really? Look at the competition.
The Wii was such a fad/fluke and got dropped as soon as everyone got over the hype and devs/pubs realized that they didn't want to make a special game for Nintendo instead of being able to port it. Nintendo didn't learn with the WiiU either.
That chart should read something like:
NES, SNES, N64, Game Cube, (insert kids toy holiday fad), WiiU.
When the NX drops and it's on par with the PS4 and XboxOne, Nintendo better hope that this generation lasts as long as the last one did because if Microsoft decides to pull the plug year 4 or 5 on the XB1 and bring out a new console, Sony will follow and Nintendo will be stuck holding the poopy diapers once again, having just released their now under powered console and history repeats itself.
But with all that said, I agree. Nobody is expecting much from the NX and Nintendo should probably eventually move on from the console game.
It's Nintendo's job to convince me of the value proposition of their machine, 3rd parties or not. To pretend otherwise is silly.
They want my money? They can earn it, but they will not have it. There are a ton of other products or causes I could throw $300 at and get more out of.
They want my money? They can earn it, but they will not have it. There are a ton of other products or causes I could throw $300 at and get more out of.
Theanine3D
Member
They won over 3rd parties before the Wii U's launch though.
Those 3rd parties bailed as soon as they realized Nintendo's home console install base doesn't buy 3rd party games in large numbers.
GameCube was a powerful console and it won over Capcom so much that it led to the Capcom 5. Yet the sales numbers of those 5 games (well, 4 - one of them was outright cancelled) were so disappointing to Capcom that it forced them to port several of them to PS2 later.
Winning over 3rd parties is an irrelevant problem. Having relatively weaker hardware is an irrelevant problem. Getting the 3rd parties to stay is their real problem, and it's not one they can solve so long as they continue to choose not to cultivate the kind of install base that buys 3rd party games. Nintendo doesn't like to make gritty shooters or online-focused games, so people who like those kinds of games have no reason to buy Nintendo consoles.
There's a reason my brother and practically every friend I had growing up who loved their N64 moved onto the PS2 and XBOX and promptly forgot Nintendo existed. Nintendo provided *fantastic* shooters on N64, which invited the FPS-buying audience to the platform - but then Nintendo completely abandoned that audience after that generation was over.
People love to paint Nintendo as some sort of victim when it comes to their 3rd party situation. But the reality is, Nintendo is fully responsible for that situation themselves. And only they can get themselves out of it.
And no, to answer the thread question: Nintendo is a for-profit business. Unless they become a nonprofit charity, they don't automatically deserve sales just "for trying." That's not how business works.
Those 3rd parties bailed as soon as they realized Nintendo's home console install base doesn't buy 3rd party games in large numbers.
GameCube was a powerful console and it won over Capcom so much that it led to the Capcom 5. Yet the sales numbers of those 5 games (well, 4 - one of them was outright cancelled) were so disappointing to Capcom that it forced them to port several of them to PS2 later.
Winning over 3rd parties is an irrelevant problem. Having relatively weaker hardware is an irrelevant problem. Getting the 3rd parties to stay is their real problem, and it's not one they can solve so long as they continue to choose not to cultivate the kind of install base that buys 3rd party games. Nintendo doesn't like to make gritty shooters or online-focused games, so people who like those kinds of games have no reason to buy Nintendo consoles.
There's a reason my brother and practically every friend I had growing up who loved their N64 moved onto the PS2 and XBOX and promptly forgot Nintendo existed. Nintendo provided *fantastic* shooters on N64, which invited the FPS-buying audience to the platform - but then Nintendo completely abandoned that audience after that generation was over.
People love to paint Nintendo as some sort of victim when it comes to their 3rd party situation. But the reality is, Nintendo is fully responsible for that situation themselves. And only they can get themselves out of it.
And no, to answer the thread question: Nintendo is a for-profit business. Unless they become a nonprofit charity, they don't automatically deserve sales just "for trying." That's not how business works.
spazchicken
Member
They had the third parties when all they had to do was port a three year old game like Mass Effect 3 or Batman from the PS360 to the WiiU. As soon as the PS4 and Xb1 dropped, they couldn't just do that anymore and instead had to make a special game for the WiiU every time, even if it was the same franchise and number as the ones on the PS4 and XB1.
The Game Cube was a powerful console but the controller was just weird for games outside of Nintendo franchises. On top of this, it was a little purple lunchbox with a handle. I think that made a huge difference in a market and time where the competition was (and still is) ridiculous.
Before the GC, they stubbornly decided to stick with cartridges in a world where everyone was moving on to CD. They lost 90% of their third parties right there and that's where it all started, with the N64.
Dreamwriter
Member
They will win over third parties if they get the initial sales. They will get the initial sales if they launch with great AAA first-party titles. They don't have to win over the third parties any other way, though it will help if their console has a similar architecture as the other two. Wii U failed to get great launch titles AND had a completely different architecture than PS4/XBox One, thus it failed.
The Wii U was released on the eve of gen 8 while it was sporting hardware comparable to gen 7. Those 3rd parties at launch were never gonna stay around with their core franchises when there were two new twins that were easier to port between with new games that needed more power. At most you'd get spinoffs rather than mainline games or really degraded ports if the Wii U actually did well.
Power isn't the end all be all. But it is a factor when its a 3 console space.
Power isn't the end all be all. But it is a factor when its a 3 console space.
But even if Nintendo fixes both problems, there's still the issue of the audience not being there. Nintendo has to prove to western third parties that the audience that they're looking for exists on the NX Platform. Power alone won't fix this problem.
I buy Nintendo consoles mostly for the first party stuff, BUT if there is a great 3rd party port that does something different that the other two consoles don't offer then I'll buy it on the Nintendo console over the others in a way of showing support for 3rd parties on Nintendo platforms.
Example: Rayman Legends Wii U > Xbox One
Injustice: Gods Among Us Wii U < Xbox 360
Example: Rayman Legends Wii U > Xbox One
Injustice: Gods Among Us Wii U < Xbox 360
neurosisxeno
Member
It's more like they bailed after the Wii U's initial sales flopped. Half the companies that had launch titles on the Wii U had held off on green lighting future ports waiting to see how it faired, and the other half already had some in production. Many companies outright cancelled Wii U versions after the initial sales numbers were so underwhelming--they decided it just was not worth the time and money when they would likely make more money off providing more DLC for the other 2-3 platforms out there
I disagree. When the hardware is only somewhat weaker (difference between PS4 and X1 for example) it's irrelevant. When you have a situation like the Wii it's a real problem. The Wii should have had an effect similar to the PS2 with everyone going nuts to develop games for it, but it was so underpowered that a lot of companies just didn't bother--or worse, offered severely cut down experiences that destroyed peoples trust in the platform as a whole. Since then all that is left is the Nintendo die-hards that buy the console only for Wii U games. I think you have the situation a bit flipped around in that regard, but it's kind of a chicken and egg scenario.
Nintendo is absolutely to blame. They treat releasing game consoles the same way Apple does--here's what we're selling, you know you like it and want it--but without any of the tact that Apple has. They still brush off 3rd party devs and overcharge them for things like licenses and dev kits compared to their competitors, and apparently despite years of it being a problem, their dev tools are still dog shit. They easily could have spent the last 10-15 years developing close ties with western developers, but chose to ignore them almost entirely until it was too late.
spazchicken
Member
That good will is broken but if I was head of Nintendo right now, I would release a successor to the New3DS in 2017 or work the hell out of that smartphone deal and live on that until the PS4 and XB1 are getting long in the tooth and start development on the next big thing to compete with their next big thing.
Everyone says that Nintendo doesn't have to compete with Sony and MS but they do. They have to compete for third parties as well as consumers and everyone wants the best, latest and greatest. How well did being the only ones making games for their own consoles work for NEC and SNK? It's even worse now than it was back then. You can't do it all on your own when the other guys have their own and everyone else's.
@ bolded: I guess you are not familiar with the shared library concept? The reason why I used the New 3DS analogy is because New 3DS plays all original 3DS games and only has one(?) exclusive game that can only be played on New 3DS. You don't have to build software, only up-port existing games (Smash 3DS -> Smash Wii U)
The idea is to sell a console form factor for those who prefer the TV experience, basically playing games designed for the handheld but in higher res and a better solution to local multiplayer. Also fans would double dip on hardware, so there's no reason why it can't pull Wii U unit sales in a way that turns a profit.
My priority is to preserve the current state of Nintendo games. I don't want open world Zelda even if the market dictates it, so I would be better off having Nintendo lean on the casuals because I prefer puzzelda (skyward sword) over the upcoming release. Nor do I want a SM64 style adventure, I want my obstacle course Mario and this style has more overlap with the expanded audience than the AAA multiplat gamer.
Dylan Sexbang
Banned
Nintendo can't win me over with third party support. That's what my xbone is for. Its where my friends are, my game library is, and I'm not going to suddenly drop that just because Nintendo has the capability or the support. That's all it comes down to do. Especially this late into the generation as it is.
What they need to do is provide a consistent first party library.
What they need to do is provide a consistent first party library.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Subjective
Barkley's Justice
Member
It's Nintendo. The console won't be a powerhouse. C'mon, now...*Maybe* Xbox One-level?? Like...a big "maybe"...
It's not just about making a powerful console for third parties.
It's about this: will Nintendo hardware buyers buy other things than Nintendo titles?
Increasingly over the years, the answer has been: No.
We'll see how many 3rd party pubs try it this time around, but a lot will rest on early sales on non Nintendo -type titles (one would expect Child of Light, Lego, Skylanders, Minecraft, Shovel Knight and the likes to do well).
This. If you actually spend time browsing Miiverse you will see there's an established fanbase for games like Minecraft and Undertale. These are the titles that resonate with Nintendo's existing audience. It's no wonder Nintendo has been rumored to be the first system UT will appear on and why Wii U just receive Minecraft. Nintendo is actively chasing games that actually sell on their systems as of now, not try to convince hypothetical audiences who will buy CoD and GTA.
dangeraaron10
Unconfirmed Member
I don't buy Nintendo consoles for 3rd party games. I rarely like 3rd party games anyway that I can't get on PC.
I have a PC for this stuff. I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games and I've yet to be truly disappointed in software output. (a wee bit miffed at the Wii U, quite so, but they had gems that made the purchase worth it).
I have a PC for this stuff. I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games and I've yet to be truly disappointed in software output. (a wee bit miffed at the Wii U, quite so, but they had gems that made the purchase worth it).
This, but I'd like for them to eventually repair those bridges with third party support. They're forever my secondary console without it.
ive always bought nintendo consoles for Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros, Mario, Star Fox, and Mario Kart. We still get most of these so it warrants my purchase. And with Zelda being confirmed for NX, itll be an insta purchase because its my favorite series. 3rd party just sweetens the deal, but even if it doesnt have it i have a PS4
Judging by past and current gens, my Nintendo console library ends up being about 80% the size of my PlayStation of Xbox libraries. I generally have a higher satisfaction index on my Nintendo games overall so, for myself, it is no brainier investment. I'll end up with more good games than I can finish anyway.
How so?
The Spoony Hou
Member
Who buys consoles for the hardware?
In my opinion, if they fail to win over 3rd parties, then they're not trying hard enough.
No. I'm getting a little tired of buying Nintendo systems solely as a way to play nintendo games.
……forgetit
Member
Everyone technically.
No, I buy consoles for the games they offer. I'd be more inclined to buy a system if it's powerful AND offers a good games lineup whether it's exclusive or 3rd party than a system that's not as powerful. But I won't buy a system just because it's powerful.
wonderful103
Member
It's sad that people are still trying to dismiss the wii so incorrectly. It's 2016. Get over it
It's just another next-gen generational chance that some people are just hoping Nintendo will be less like Nintendo and more like Sony and Microsoft. If we follow the bread crumbs based on what Nintendo has talked about regarding its hardware development interests and what it doesn't want to do, then it's pretty obvious that Nintendo has shown it still is not interested in making a high-spec console (that isn't merely on par with Xbox One/PS4) and sell it at a competitive price. Miyamoto said this in 2015 that they don't want to do what Sony and Microsoft are doing, so if that isn't proof enough, then I don't know what is.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Nope. Nintendo's first party stuff just isn't my taste, so unless they change creative direction to be more in line with what I like (and there's zero reasons why they should) I really have no interest.
This, I think, is the biggest problem facing Nintendo. If like me you haven't been into their big exclusives from the past decade and a half, why would you be that invested in giving them a shot now or in the future?
It would be stupid for them to neglect their traditional values and audience in order to attract new users, even though that approach is to an extent self-limiting. The crux of the matter is that they need third-parties to do that for them, while third-parties objectively don't need Nintendo platforms to support their businesses.
This, I think, is the biggest problem facing Nintendo. If like me you haven't been into their big exclusives from the past decade and a half, why would you be that invested in giving them a shot now or in the future?
It would be stupid for them to neglect their traditional values and audience in order to attract new users, even though that approach is to an extent self-limiting. The crux of the matter is that they need third-parties to do that for them, while third-parties objectively don't need Nintendo platforms to support their businesses.
Who does this? If a product doesn't fit your needs, you find one that does.