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Nvidia announces Geforce GTX 10 Series - GTX1080 - $599 - May 27th, GTX1070 = $379

Vuze

Member
Are their OC editions going to be cheaper? If not then I'm confused at this point as to why the $599 price point was even mentioned. Will the AIB partners actually make cheaper cards? Also, if this is just the reference edition with their logo slapped on it then why wait for it when you could get it from Nvidia for the same price?
I think the current consensus is that Founders Editions will be available on launch regardless of the partner who is selling them for $699. Custom models should follow shortly afterwards, atleast Gigabyte has been teasing theirs for June. The pricing model of these is a mystery to me as well...
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
This all kinda sucks in a way. I have the money right now for my new build. Other than buying my case, I have just been patiently waiting to purchase everything else for these new cards. I don't want a reference design. So if this is all correct, we may not see custom designs until maybe August? That would suck! Going to be paring either the 1070 or 1080 with a 6700k. At this point, do I now wait for the refresh Skylake now?

I don't think we'll be waiting that long. Nvidia don't want the market to themselves - that's partly why the refere...founders edition is expensive. They want space around the recommended price for their partners to release at.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
people need to just wait for the non-founders editions. they're for suckers. don't be a sucker, GAF.

I thought the founders editions would be sold just through nvidia. I didn't think partners would sell them - only their own designs. I hope the founders editions isn't an excuse for everyone to price gouge. Although I now expect any OC models to be around that price or even a little higher. If a headline $599 suddenly becomes $699-749 for factory OC cards with good cooling then that is enough to price lots of people out.
 
I think the current consensus is that Founders Editions will be available on launch regardless of the partner who is selling them for $699. Custom models should follow shortly afterwards, atleast Gigabyte has been teasing theirs for June. The pricing model of these is a mystery to me as well...

What if they just keep all custom cooled models at $699 and save the $100 price drop for when the demand cools down a bit?
I'm pretty scared that might happen and I also live in Europe in a non-EUR EU country, so they will get me on both the USD-EUR price translation and on the EUR-local currency one.
 

Zabojnik

Member
How exactly?

It looks like other vendors reference (or founder's, if you prefer) design cards will cost as much as Nvidia's, which makes sense. So a 100$ premium over the MSRP. Custom cooler models will arrive in the following months.

In the past, cards with a custom cooler design were traditionally associated with a price that either matched Nvidia's reference cooler price or was slightly / significantly higher. Which is understandable, since developing and fabricating a custom cooling solution costs money and in the end nets a better cooling performance for the user. You pay more, but you (usually) get lower temps and less noise for it.

So what some people seem to believe now is that EVGA, MSI, Asus, etc. will come up with custom (which, again, traditionally means better / pricier) cooling designs that will cost less than what they'll be selling reference cards for initially (699$). You can see how this might seem highly improbable to the people on the other side of the argument / issue, hence the doubts about Nvidia's pricing scheme.
 

Ozorov

Member
It looks like other vendors reference (or founder's, if you prefer) design cards will cost as much as Nvidia's, which makes sense. So a 100$ premium over the MSRP. Custom cooler models will arrive in the following months.

In the past, cards with a custom cooler design were traditionally associated with a price that was either the same as Nvidia's reference cooler price, and more often than not slightly or significantly higher. Which is understandable, since developing and fabricating a custom cooling solution costs money and in the end nets a better cooling performance for the user. You pay more, but you get better cooling.

So what some people seem to believe now is that EVGA, MSI, Asus, etc. will come up with custom (traditionally better / pricier) cooling designs which will cost less that what they'll be selling reference cards for initially (699$). You can see how this might seem highly improbable to the people on the other side of the argument / issue, hence the doubts about Nvidia's pricing scheme.

We'll see in June, it looks like non-reference cards will show up then.
 
The easiest thing to do is wait for both cards to be released with real benchmarks to compare. Then decide on what to buy. No point in rushing when both are just around the corner.

May the best performance/price ratio win.
 

Kezen

Banned
So in essence the Founders editions are little else than an early adopter tax. But how can Nvidia accept to be undercut by cheaper and likely better cards all around ?

What's the life expectancy of the Founders edition once custom cards are available ?
 

Hasney

Member
So in essence the Founders editions are little else than an early adopter tax. But how can Nvidia accept to be undercut by cheaper and likely better cards all around ?

What's the life expectancy of the Founders edition once custom cards are available ?

I doubt there's much of a market for reference cards after the big players come out anyway. This is their way of squeezing some more money before the drop off.
 

Kezen

Banned
I doubt there's much of a market for reference cards after the big players come out anyway. This is their way of squeezing some more money before the drop off.

But this is so short sighted not to mention Nvidia claimed Founders edition would be sold during the lifespan of the card. But who will buy those after custom cards are commonly available is my question.
 

Vuze

Member
But this is so short sighted not to mention Nvidia claimed Founders edition would be sold during the lifespan of the card. But who will buy those after custom cards are commonly available is my question.
The only plausible reason I can think of is that Nvidia won't allow their partners to use the reference design for OC models or after a certain period of time, so customers who want the design for SLI or for the looks have to buy from them. But idk, would be weird.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Excited to see benches in a week.


My VR performance coming from SLI 970s (so 1 970 really), should theoretically more than quadruple.


That said, I really hope the 1080 improves 4K performance. Since my 970's already best a Titan X.

If anything the 8gb should prevent me from hitting that particular bottleneck at 4K in certain games.
 

Bboy AJ

My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Well, this is absolute garbage. Not cool. Charge $800 or whatever but don't hide the gpu behind a founders edition. Just make one gpu and charge whatever.
 

mario_O

Member
If this is the same benchmark I saw on reddit (you didn't post a source) the 980ti in this benchmark is clocked at over 1500 mhz, which heavily skews the results ofc as it's an insane oc

edit:

source
http://www.mobipicker.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-directx-12-benchmarks-async-compute/

Source for the numbers : http://www.mobipicker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/GTX-1080-benchmarks-1440-Crazy.jpg

They are comparing it to the record result for a 980ti (which apparently is running at 1525mhz, I don't have the benchmark installed to see details on the results page for that top 980ti)

This is why you always add a source to your info, otherwise it's misleading.

What are you talking about? there's always been a source in my post. And from where do you get that the 980Ti was "insanely" OC to 1500? You can check many results of the 980Ti in this benchmark, there are dozens on the web.
 

Hasney

Member
The leaked benchmarks are all hot garbage anyway. Same game, yet videocardz found much bigger gains.

Can't wait for the official ones to stop all this.
 

Jimrpg

Member
It looks like other vendors reference (or founder's, if you prefer) design cards will cost as much as Nvidia's, which makes sense. So a 100$ premium over the MSRP. Custom cooler models will arrive in the following months.

In the past, cards with a custom cooler design were traditionally associated with a price that either matched Nvidia's reference cooler price or was slightly / significantly higher. Which is understandable, since developing and fabricating a custom cooling solution costs money and in the end nets a better cooling performance for the user. You pay more, but you (usually) get lower temps and less noise for it.

So what some people seem to believe now is that EVGA, MSI, Asus, etc. will come up with custom (which, again, traditionally means better / pricier) cooling designs that will cost less than what they'll be selling reference cards for initially (699$). You can see how this might seem highly improbable to the people on the other side of the argument / issue, hence the doubts about Nvidia's pricing scheme.

I'm still not sure how Nvidia 'lied' about their pricing?

They have a founder's card, that has great overclockability and possibly what JHH alluded to when he pointed out the 2.1Ghz air cooled chip on stage. This is available on May 27th as seen in the press release. Press release was also noticeably silent about availability of non-founders cards.

In short if you want the $599 non founders price with less overclockability, wait a bit? All the specs on Nvidia official site for the GTX 1080 would still hold true for the non founders version.

If EVGA/MSI/Asus and other vendors make custom cooling designs, won't there be founders and non founders versions, and priced accordingly?
 

Hasney

Member
I'm still not sure how Nvidia 'lied' about their pricing?

They have a founder's card, that has great overclockability and possibly what JHH alluded to when he pointed out the 2.1Ghz air cooled chip on stage. This is available on May 27th as seen in the press release. Press release was also noticeably silent about availability of non-founders cards.

In short if you want the $599 non founders price with less overclockability, wait a bit? All the specs on Nvidia official site for the GTX 1080 would still hold true for the non founders version.

If EVGA/MSI/Asus and other vendors make custom cooling designs, won't there be founders and non founders versions, and priced accordingly?

It's come out recently where the chips are no different to the other chips. There's no extra OC or special binning, it's just the ones out earlier.
 

dr_rus

Member
It's come out recently where the chips are no different to the other chips. There's no extra OC or special binning, it's just the ones out earlier.

The cooler should provide some additional OC headroom compared to the cheap AIB solutions. AIB cards with good coolers will likely be factory OC and will sell for something close to what FE will cost.

But yeah, the whole FE idea is just stupid imo especially if we're looking at a couple of weeks period from launch till AIB cards will hit the street. The cards aren't that much better than what we have now to not be able to sit out this couple of weeks.
 

mark_79

Banned
Based on what we know so far, what would be the best cpu to partner a 1070 with for gaming?

A blazing fast i5 or number crunching i7?
 

Jimrpg

Member
JayzTwoCents explains the Founders edition quite nicely in his video. In short wait for the non Founders cards.

It's come out recently where the chips are no different to the other chips. There's no extra OC or special binning, it's just the ones out earlier.

Ok I've just seen JayzTwoCents video and finally caught up.

So there's no difference between the founders cards and "non founders"/other manufacturers cards then!
 

Vuze

Member
So, will the third party vendors (evga, Asus etc.) "Founders Editions" be cheaper than Nvidias "Founders Edition" or are they all $699?
EVGA is 699$, I don't think we know prices for the others yet but I guess nobody would pay more than the base price for the exact same model... so I assume all will be 699$.
 

Izcarielo

Banned
Ok I've just seen JayzTwoCents video and finally caught up.

So there's no difference between the founders cards and "non founders"/other manufacturers cards then!

What I got from that video is that Founder = reference. Nvidia just chose to name it that way.
The other manufacturers, as usual, will introduce upgrades in the form of OC, less noisy disipation system, etc..
 

Ozorov

Member
Ok I've just seen JayzTwoCents video and finally caught up.

So there's no difference between the founders cards and "non founders"/other manufacturers cards then!

There's no difference between Nvidias Founder card and EVGAs, Gigabyte etc Founder cards.
 

Engell

Member
Based on what we know so far, what would be the best cpu to partner a 1070 with for gaming?

A blazing fast i5 or number crunching i7?

i would always pick the i7 ( if you can afford it ) unless the only thing you care about is doing a top benchmark in some weird low resolution.
the extra math power in the i7 will benefit you in the long run.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Based on what we know so far, what would be the best cpu to partner a 1070 with for gaming?

A blazing fast i5 or number crunching i7?

What CPUs are you comparing? Because if you have the money to spend you should pick an i7 over an i5, especially if it's a long term investment.
 
Digital Foundry isn't respectable?

They just have that little fcat graph on screen but they don't do any frametime graphs, 99 percentile numbers etc. And they rarely offer any insight. Without detailed frametime measurements benchmarks are pointless.

Here's an example: gta 5 runs at about 60 fps average on the radeon pro duo at 1440p ultra. (a 2 gpu on one PCB graphics card), which is about 50 percent faster than it runs on a fury x.
Sounds good, right? And that's all the info most benchmark sites will ever give you, along with maybe minimum fps.

But if you check pcper's benchmarks you see this:
GTAV_2560x1440_PLOT.png

HOLY FUCKIN SHIT, it's the worst stuttering you have ever seen in any game on any gpu, ever. (the green line, no... green wall)
The pink line is how it runs on sli gtx 980 tis for comparison

This is why you need frametime graphs, because it shows that the 99 percentile frametime for this radeon pro duo is much lower than that of the fury x
http://www.pcper.com/files/review/2016-04-29/GTAV_2560x1440_PER.png
The fury x will give you an infinitely much better experience

If there is anything wrong with the 1080's drivers or frametime performance you'll have to go to pcper or techreport to find out. What if for some reason the frametimes suck compared to maxwell, and you currently had a 980, would you want a 1080 ? HELL no because who cares about higher average fps if the 99 percentile maximum frametime is worse.

Similarly maybe pascal will be able to offer more consistent frametimes than maxwell, or somehow have less cpu overhead or something , which would make it more attractive.

DF stumbled upon an i7 absolutely killing it frametime consistency wise compared to an i5 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSU0UWFCa1Y and they didn't even notice, too busy talking about the i3.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Speaking of; what is the best software for measuring framerate and frametimes? Similar to those graphs.
 

dr_rus

Member
I'm waiting for pcper or techreport, only respectable benchmark sites out there

Techreport's Scott Wasson is at AMD now and I don't think that there were any benchmarks made by the new guy there so it remains to be seen how good they are now.

So theres zero difference between Nvidias founders edition and the other (evga etc) founders editions?

What's "NVIDIA's FE"? NV doesn't make videocards, whatever they have are made by some OEM partner anyway - probably one of the AIBs who will sell 1070/1080 cards by itself as well.

Digital Foundry isn't respectable?

When it comes to benchmarking PC h/w no, not even close to the likes of Anandtech, Techreport, TPU, Guru3d, PCPer, etc. They do provide some unique perspective of their own though.

Speaking of; what is the best software for measuring framerate and frametimes? Similar to those graphs.

NV's FCAT is the best overall solution, AB monitor logging is the most accessible one though.
 
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