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[The Artisan]

tl;dr at the bottom

So I have been obsessed with the Hills for like half a year now. Also, when I'm fucked up, that's the real me.

However, Kanye West said something interesting back when he was being punk'd. "I think the media should be more concerned intent instead of content." - I didn't think much of it then but it's an interesting statement.

The content of the Hills is pretty grimy. This dude is talking about how he really only wants casual sex and does it a lot and that may be why he has relationships with certain girls. Not only that but he does drugs a lot. He not only does them a lot, he needs them - probably addicted to many, or whatever. And that's all the song is about.

But what is his intent? What is the message he's trying to tell the listener? It could also probably be argued that the Weeknd caters to a mostly female audience but I don't care about that coz I still love his music. And this also isn't a judgement call I'm making either coz in this whole song he could just be in character - that's not totally relevant either, the point is, his intent, whether in character or not, is him telling the story (just like a book does, or a movie, or a poem, or a video game!) of how he's this person who does these things, and it's all around fucked up - but - who are you to judge? for some reason I don't like the bridges in most songs but that line is important...

Now for the purpose of this thread, I can tell you that I cannot at all relate to that song - as I have not been intimate with a female like that and I don't do most drugs. Nor would I agree to have such a lifestyle; but the music is entertaining to me because of the intent behind it. In terms of content, yes the lyrics are pretty simple. But the tune and just overall darkness within both the the final product and message really gets to me...and but I love it.

So what I'm saying is, whatever most people are to get out of a song like Hills, it has no bearing on me as a person. Not at all, really. But I'd be into music like that. It's largely with a lot of the music I listen to.

tl;dr

The music that you listen to, first off do you make a distinction between the intent and the content?

And second off, can you relate to most or all or any of it? Or can you vibe with it for other reasons? Reasons that are valid enough for you because who cares about what anyone else thinks about your music that you listen to it's your choice in tunes right?

What do you think?

 

[John Kowalski]

Wait, when Kanye said that did he meant the media as in news outlets and critics, or media as in the things that artists create?

I don't know, i'm having a hard time separating content with intent, and the distinction feels a bit superfluous unless you're the kind of person who cannot perceive the multiple levels of engagement that things sometimes require.

 

[Metalmarc]

Intersting thread idea, lost interest as soon as soon as i read Kayne West tho :/

 

[Kurita]

Intersting thread idea, lost interest as soon as soon as i read Kayne West tho :/

The thread isn't about Kanye West though. Grow up.

 

[Cocaloch]

tl;dr at the bottom

So I have been obsessed with the Hills for like half a year now. Also, when I'm fucked up, that's the real me.

However, Kanye West said something interesting back when he was being punk'd. "I think the media should be more concerned intent instead of content." - I didn't think much of it then but it's an interesting statement.

The content of the Hills is pretty grimy. This dude is talking about how he really only wants casual sex and does it a lot and that may be why he has relationships with certain girls. Not only that but he does drugs a lot. He not only does them a lot, he needs them - probably addicted to many, or whatever. And that's all the song is about.

But what is his intent? What is the message he's trying to tell the listener? It could also probably be argued that the Weeknd caters to a mostly female audience but I don't care about that coz I still love his music. And this also isn't a judgement call I'm making either coz in this whole song he could just be in character - that's not totally relevant either, the point is, his intent, whether in character or not, is him telling the story (just like a book does, or a movie, or a poem, or a video game!) of how he's this person who does these things, and it's all around fucked up - but - who are you to judge? for some reason I don't like the bridges in most songs but that line is important...

Now for the purpose of this thread, I can tell you that I cannot at all relate to that thread - as I have not been intimate with a female like that and I don't do most drugs. Nor would I agree to have such a lifestyle; but the music is entertaining to me because of the intent behind it. In terms of content, yes the lyrics are pretty simple. But the tune and just overall darkness within both the the final product and message really gets to me...and but I love it.

So what I'm saying is, whatever most people are to get out of a song like Hills, it has no bearing on me as a person. Not at all, really. But I'd be into music like that. It's largely with a lot of the music I listen to.

tl;dr

The music that you listen to, first off do you make a distinction between the intent and the content?

And second off, can you relate to most or all or any of it? Or can you vibe with it for other reasons? Reasons that are valid enough for you because who cares about what anyone else thinks about your music that you listen to it's your choice in tunes right?

What do you think?

Regardless of whether or not we pay lip service to intent, I think you'll find that we live in a society in general that cares more about intent than actual action. This probably carries over to music. Personally I like that, but there are pretty good arguments against it, i.e. Nietzsche.

In my experience most people that only look at the literal meaning of lyrics instead of the obvious implications and intent behind them are doing it because they don't like the artist anyway. Older white people and pretty much all rap music for example.

 

[hughesta]

I listen to Death Grips a lot and it's definitely made me a more aggressive individual in terms of getting what I want. Not violent or rude, but a lot more blunt.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I mostly listen to punk and I can say that depending on the artist, usually it's more about the content. For a band like Bad Religion, I'm actually paying attention to the intent, but for a band like Offspring, it's about the content.

I think I answered your question if I understood it correctly...

 

[UltimaPooh]

Intersting thread idea, lost interest as soon as soon as i read Kayne West tho :/

Sick Kanye burn yo!

 

[Bare Grills]

I listen to conspiracy rap even tho I don't believe in 99% of the shit they rapped about.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm having trouble distinguishing between what you mean by intent and content.

I think they're more often the same. They lyrics contain meaning which is the intent.

Are you refering to the fact that sometime lyrics aren't meant to be literally or that they can transcend specific things mentioned.

Like songs claiming to be about one thing but are actually about another, or both. I think of another weekend song, Can't feel my face, which has the dual love/cocaine meaning.

 

[ascii42]

They say music can alter moods and talk to you
well can it load a gun up for you and cock it too?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I am one to think music and media in general certainly works to shape who you are as a person. How could it not? You fill your mind with it, you tell yourself that it's entertainment, but then you start to adopt some of its ideas as your own. Some of this could certainly be good, and some of it could be very bad.

 

[Syriel]

The music that you listen to, first off do you make a distinction between the intent and the content?

Depends on the song.

Some music I listen to because of the lyrics and the message the artist is sending.

Other music I listen to the music and the words fall on deaf ears.

Basically, the reason for liking a particular song can change from song to song.

 

[Reverend Funk]

Intersting thread idea, lost interest as soon as soon as i read Kayne West tho :/

What a dumb thing to do

 

[Kayo Police]

Its crazy but The Weeknd is the only Hip-Hop/Rap Artist(Correct me if Im wrong pls) that I actively listen.

I thought his Trilogy album is a god damn masterpiece.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

Kanye West is the Elfen Lied of rap.

 

[wiggleb0t]

tl;dr at the bottom

So I have been obsessed with the Hills for like half a year now.

The content of the Hills is pretty grimy. This dude is talking about how he really only wants casual sex and does it a lot and that may be why he has relationships with certain girls. Not only that but he does drugs a lot. He not only does them a lot, he needs them - probably addicted to many, or whatever. And that's all the song is about.

But what is his intent? What is the message he's trying to tell the listener?

It's lyrics in a song. His expression. You can relate to it or not. It's possibly all fiction. Lots of songs are potentially made up to make a good track and sell albums. His intent or content are whatever he chooses and you don't have to distinguish. Do you think rap is all based on real life dealings? They sensationalize(lie) to sound good and sell albums

People have casual sex and drug addiction isn't rare.

 

[greycolumbus]

I listen to conspiracy rap even tho I don't believe in 99% of the shit they rapped about.

Need did that Immortal Technique in my life.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

I truly think the music we listen to affects our thought process' and decisions subconsciously.

Music affects and reflects the culture.

 

[Ryaaan14]

I don't really pay any mind to lyrics. I just care about melodies and music that gets me hyped.

Some aggressive electronic with a catchy vocal, metal with fast, low, resonating palm mutes, double bass drums, or a ultra poppy tune with an addictive hook

 

[Bronx-Man]

My top 5 favorite artists are Kanye, Death Grips, Tame Impala, Bon Iver, and Flying Lotus, so I got no idea what the hell that says about my personality. I just listen to whatever music sounds good to me.

 

[Bare Grills]

Need did that Immortal Technique in my life.

Immortal Technique was my shit in high school. He's the reason I started listening to ungerdround rap.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

I'm having trouble distinguishing between what you mean by intent and content.

I think they're more often the same. They lyrics contain meaning which is the intent.

Are you refering to the fact that sometime lyrics aren't meant to be literally or that they can transcend specific things mentioned.

Like songs claiming to be about one thing but are actually about another, or both. I think of another weekend song, Can't feel my face, which has the dual love/cocaine meaning.

Let's take one relevant example - "Famous" by Kanye West.
The content itself is relatively offensive. The song opens with implications of Taylor Swift still owing him sex because he made her famous. But the intent is to have it be a braggadocio, feel-good song - the Taylor Swift line was apparently her idea before she backed out, the song constantly has adlibs praising Kanye's "attacks" to the point it gets ridiculous ("Goddamn!", "Talk that talk man!"...) and the song is carried by Nina Simone and Sister Nancy, of all things.
If you consider the content to be the intent, then it's an absolutely offensive, sexist song in which the artist only looks to praise himself and to put down other people, especially women. But the real intent is to have it be a rude but fun song (the rudeness being part of the fun really), with the only specific person that's targeted actually giving her agreement on it. How well the intent works is a different story however.

Sometimes intent & content are very close, yes, but the question here is what the song contains vs. what did the artist plan to achieve with this song.

The music that you listen to, first off do you make a distinction between the intent and the content?

Obviously, yes. A very crass song can be about criticizing the crass subject it is about, for example. The artist's vision matters a lot in my opinion.

And second off, can you relate to most or all or any of it? Or can you vibe with it for other reasons? Reasons that are valid enough for you because who cares about what anyone else thinks about your music that you listen to it's your choice in tunes right?

What do you think?

I can relate to most music I like, as for the rest, it's usually because I enjoy the production/instruments/melodies (although being made by an artist I already know and like does help).

I listen to Death Grips a lot and it's definitely made me a more aggressive individual in terms of getting what I want. Not violent or rude, but a lot more blunt.

Eh, I listen to Death Grips a lot but it's because their music fits me, rather than me fitting their music. I mean, whatever things that make me enjoy & identidy with what they make were there before I started listening to their works. I didn't become more aggressive after listening to them a lot, I already was.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I've acted more "like" certain music or artists after listening to it a lot. It's the contrary, I can't seriously get into music (or anything really) if it doesn't match me first.

 

[slick7rick]

I am one to think music and media in general certainly works to shape who you are as a person. How could it not? You fill your mind with it, you tell yourself that it's entertainment, but then you start to adopt some of its ideas as your own. Some of this could certainly be good, and some of it could be very bad.

Especially with Hip Hop culture. How many kids buy Jordan's just because their favorite rapper wears them? I know people who do hardcore drugs just because a hot street single is about it (stuff like Molly, Lean, etc) or certain brands just because it's mentioned in a song. Look at NWA's influence with songs like "Fuck the Police".

Also, I find it odd when women swoon over singers who refer to women as bitches.

 

[uncelestial]

My top 5 favorite artists are Kanye, Death Grips, Tame Impala, Bon Iver, and Flying Lotus, so I got no idea what the hell that says about my personality. I just listen to whatever music sounds good to me.

Shit man, you have cool taste.

 

[thequickandthedead]

Flatbush Zombies are amazing rappers but I always get annoyed when I hear the line "9/11 biggest fraud in history"

 

[Count Dookkake]

Besides content and intent, there is a third axis: execution.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

I listen to conspiracy rap even tho I don't believe in 99% of the shit they rapped about.

Heh, so do I. Jedi Mind Tricks is great even though I think Vinnie Paz is a fat, mouth-breathing, homophobic douche bag.

Flatbush Zombies are amazing rappers but I always get annoyed when I hear the line "9/11 biggest fraud in history"

When rappers start with this shit I almost always tune them out afterwards.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I listen to a lot of metal/hard rock which can have some pretty dark/violent lyrics. I usually enjoy the dark stuff--depressing, bleak, etc--and have fun with the violent stuff. It's usually funny or at least has a point. Concept albums to the rescue!

I don't relate 100% but I do kinda relate to the moods of said songs. Sometimes I feel shitty and music that's about that just works. Plus its really fucking loud and filled with lots of RAWR which I super enjoy.

But then I"ll toss on something uplifting, like "Blackbird" by Alter Bridge and get hit with that mood too. It's nice to hear songs about how things will get better as a direct juxtaposition on how they never will.

On the whole, I do pay attention to the lyrics I listen to. I like what I think are good lyrics. I'm willing to let some of that go for fun guitar/melodies though.

Edit:

I've never really considered authorial intent at all. To me that's a logical fallacy. I'll figure out the meanings to songs on my own, and if I can back them up via lyrics/melody, then more power to me.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Shit man, you have cool taste.

Aw, thanks!

Besides content and intent, there is a third axis: execution.

That's a damn good point.

 

[Emerson's Essentia]

For me it's the other way around: I'm concerned about the content and I'm better off not knowing intent. It's more stimulating for me. That's why I prefer abstract artistry in all things: from music, to movies, to math. I want to discover you on my own terms, at my own time of choosing, and see how your content stands up to the universe at large. I want to judge for myself whether your work is true or not.

Not that I don't value messages - quite the opposite, actually. But I don't want it spoon fed. When the intent is obvious, the work is ephemeral. When it requires digging, it stimulates for potentially a lifetime.

 

[The Artisan]

Wait, when Kanye said that did he meant the media as in news outlets and critics, or media as in the things that artists create?

If I had a link to the punk'd episode I'd show it to you so that you could decide for yourself what he meant. it's on mtv.com but you need an account.

Intersting thread idea, lost interest as soon as soon as i read Kayne West tho :/

i'm not really a fan either but like the guy below you said, he isn't the subject of the thread. if you think it is interesting and were reading the whole OP i encourage you to finish it.

The thread isn't about Kanye West though. Grow up.

thank you

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Some stuff by Sufjan Stevens gets to me so much I can't listen to it even though it's beautiful.

 

[The Artisan]

Regardless of whether or not we pay lip service to intent, I think you'll find that we live in a society in general that cares more about intent than actual action. This probably carries over to music. Personally I like that, but there are pretty good arguments against it, i.e. Nietzsche.

Yeah you're probably right. What do you mean by action though? Is this actions in terms of musical content?

In my experience most people that only look at the literal meaning of lyrics instead of the obvious implications and intent behind them are doing it because they don't like the artist anyway. Older white people and pretty much all rap music for example.

yes, this is probably why a lot of people antagonize Eminem. When he's making hardcore music...he's in character. He doesn't actually mean the things he says in the songs otherwise how in the world would he have raised his children

And according to his exwife he actually is a good father

Depends on the song.

Some music I listen to because of the lyrics and the message the artist is sending.

Other music I listen to the music and the words fall on deaf ears.

Basically, the reason for liking a particular song can change from song to song.

Yeah this is pretty much the same for me. Although, for some music the words don't fall on deaf ears, their words that are so, basically anti-me, I just don't know how I could vibe with him.

It's lyrics in a song. His expression. You can relate to it or not. It's possibly all fiction. Lots of songs are potentially made up to make a good track and sell albums. His intent or content are whatever he chooses and you don't have to distinguish. Do you think rap is all based on real life dealings? They sensationalize(lie) to sound good and sell albums

People have casual sex and drug addiction isn't rare.

I can't relate to it. Not really. Other than when he says when I'm fucked up, that's the real me. And, who are you to judge? Other than that, no, I cannot relate to it at all.

I know people having casual sex and drug addiction aren't rare. That's the content of the song. But what is the intent? Is he trying to advocate for that lifestyle? Or is he letting the listener know how much of a fucked soul he's got? I can certainly relate to that, even if my soul is not fucked the same way.

Obviously, yes. A very crass song can be about criticizing the crass subject it is about, for example. The artist's vision matters a lot in my opinion.

Can you give an example of such and such a crass song?

 

[Monocle]

I don't listen to music I relate to. I listen to music that gets my imagination going and alters my mood. And also stuff that sounds good or interesting.

 

[obin_gam]

No.

I like good music so I listen to good music. Wether it's obscure satanic french black metal, or happy electro pop.
It does not matter what the content is as long as I can bop my head to it.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I listen to violent music because I'm a violent person.

 

[Apt101]

I don't think so. When I was young it was all angry rock and rap offset by moody hip hop like Tribe' or Souls of Mischief. As I get older I find myself listening to stuff connected to other media I like - you know, movie soundtracks and what not. None of this could be examined to figure out what kind of person I am. At least I don't think so.

 

[Ray Wonder]

I listened to panda like 40 times yesterday and I don't want to bdddrrrrraat anyone. I honestly think sometimes it does though.

 

[wildfire]

Content matters to me but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that people listen to music the way I do. I feel a lot of songs people like don't reflect even their hidden urges. I think more people just assume that's how the world is and go with the flow.

 

[loudbill]

Death grips is a goood example of content vs intent. I highly doubt they murder people and shit

 

[Mr Waluigi]

Can you give an example of such and such a crass song?

Kanye West's "I'm In It" is a very dirty song but the implications are that it's really not a good thing.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

If people want to send out a clear message then they shouldn't use music because that is ultimately very personal and people will read into it whatever is inside them. If you get a musician like Bowie he very obviously used his music to say what he was thinking and feeling. He didn't really feel able to say it clearly so he often used very obscure images and meanings.

Like when he died for a lot of people in the fashion industry remembered him for his song "fashion" which is a popular track for catwalks apparently. But if you listen to the lyrics he is making out the fashion industry to be full of people who are like nazi brown shirts. Saying that the fashion industry is ultimately bland and meaningless and it's only social function is to promote feelings of social anxiety. Perhaps this is even how some people in the industry see the song and like it ironically while this level of meaning is lost on others.

 

[DurielBlack]

Content is important, but in general I have a hard enough time making out the lyrics for almost all modern music anyways. Sometimes I enjoy a song only to find out later the content is;

A. Not at all what I thought it was, changing the meaning of the song entirely.
B. Shit

One of the reasons I still prefer CD's over MP3 is that I get the cover pamplet that has the lyrics inside.

Mainly though, I just listen for sound. I like stringed instruments in general, electric guitars and violins in particular. Probably why I got into symphonic metal. I also like a lot of electronic music with little to no vocals.

Like this morning I am watching a music video from Xandria then listening to some Megadrive. I've also got some Lindsey Stirling to listen to.

 

[loudbill]

Content is important, but in general I have a hard enough time making out the lyrics for almost all modern music anyways. Sometimes I enjoy a song only to find out later the content is;

A. Not at all what I thought it was, changing the meaning of the song entirely.
B. Shit

One of the reasons I still prefer CD's over MP3 is that I get the cover pamplet that has the lyrics inside.

Mainly though, I just listen for sound. I like stringed instruments in general, electric guitars and violins in particular. Probably why I got into symphonic metal. I also like a lot of electronic music with little to no vocals.

Like this morning I am watching a music video from Xandria then listening to some Megadrive. I've also got some Lindsey Stirling to listen to.

Im pretty much the same way. I love collecting cds in general. Electronic music is just so relaxing to listen to because you donr have to focus on lyrics, its just instrumentation

 

[Glass Rebel]

Being a feminist and listening to hip-hop sometimes requires 1984 doublethink mental gymnastics.

 

[BrahReally]

Sometimes when I listen to Ultra Light Beam I just want to have a cookout and invite the rest of the cul-de-sac to an impromptu mass service on my front lawn.


But seriously though, music is still entertainment at the end of the day. A lot of the bigger artists are just actors and actresses playing a part.

For example, let's take a look at Future. He's said himself that he's really not a drug addict to the extent that the songs play him off to be, but guess what subject matter people want to hear about in his songs?

That obviously doesn't mean that everyone is an actor though. For example, look at Bobby Shmurda and his short run. His subject matter was based on committing various different crimes, all of which he really did happen to commit.

 

[DurielBlack]

Im pretty much the same way. I love collecting cds in general. Electronic music is just so relaxing to listen to because you donr have to focus on lyrics, its just instrumentation

Yeah, I find sometimes it helps with concentration, usually when doing creative tasks like painting miniatures, working on RPGs, or writing. It's also great when doing dumb physical stuff like chopping wood, working out at the gym, taking a walk, etc. Theres a lot of variation too, so you can have something upbeat and fast or slow and relaxing.

 

[The Artisan]

Kanye West's "I'm In It" is a very dirty song but the implications are that it's really not a good thing.

kept forgetting to respond to this. just listened to the song. in the first verse it sounded like kanye had something in his mouth.

this song was weird, yo. that was my first time listening to it though, i don't see what's so bad about the implications.

 

[torre_avenue]

I'd say music has the same effect on you as video games do or as film does, which is to say a little bit in terms of personality but not a lot in terms of one's core set of beliefs.

As for the idea of intent vs. content, artistic liberty and privacy is really what muddles the line between the two. For example, "House of Balloons" is all about drugs, debauchery, excess, pleasure, and emptiness, but its existence doesn't necessarily mean the Weeknd advocates people to go to that lifestyle. However, in the age of artists carefully curating what information about them gets out, there's no real reason for us to believe that the Weeknd is advocating against it. So, in that sense, how can one make a differentiation between an artist's intent vs his content if our perception of the artist is what their PR rep wants us to believe?

Second, in terms of vibing out to stuff, I personally love HoB because of the way I think it simulates what a haze sounds like, in my mind. I have literally no experience with drugs, women, or even a vacuous lifestyle like the protagonist, but the way the production and the lyrics simulate what I believe is the haze of pleasure, loneliness, and emptiness is what helps me vibe out to it. For a more generalized view of it, I vibe out to a lot of stuff; aggressive electronic-punk or whatever the fuck Death Grips is to Kanye's work to some more underground electronic stuff to Nicolas Jaar. What I believe this shows is that I don't particularly care about what the artist is physically saying, more that I enjoy how the various layers of one's music coalesce into something...greater. And because of that, I've gotten into a lot of trouble with picking music to play to my friends that have really questionable lyrics or are just too weird for them e.g. Frank Ocean's "Novocane", SOPHIE's "Lemonade", or Jamie xx's "Good Times". But that's neither here nor there, the point is even though I can't relate to anyone of my favorite artists, I enjoy their music because it strikes a chord with me that no other artist can. It's that special sixth sense where when you listen to a project, it drags you into its world and forces you to pay attention. If a project is that good, the artist deserves my attention and fandom.

I hope that answers the questions in the topic.