Wasn't the shooter a guy with sexuality problems who tried to justify it by claiming he was working for a terrorist group?
I didn't know what the motives of the San Bernardino shooters were.
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80 killed in Nice, France terrorist attack: truck into crowd, gunfire,"Stay indoors"
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Wasn't the shooter a guy with sexuality problems who tried to justify it by claiming he was working for a terrorist group?
I didn't know what the motives of the San Bernardino shooters were.
Phoenix944
Member
This isn't going to stop, isn't it ?
And what can you do to prevent such acts anyway? It seems so hard to predict.
And what can you do to prevent such acts anyway? It seems so hard to predict.
comshoplesce
Member
O my god 
WHY?
WHY?
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
He was also a Muslim who claimed the attack in the name of Allah.
At some point people will stop giving Islam, and religion as a whole, a free pass on this. Islamic terrorism is a fact and it happens, across the globe, every day. Now where do we go from here?
...What!? What the hell are you talking about? I wasn't defending Japan, I wasn't defending kamikaze attacks. Imperial Japan was a fucking awful blight on the planet.
Seriously, this response was so strange and unwarranted. I was talking about their internal justification for suicide attacks (defending their country), and simply giving an example of a suicide attack against a military target, NOT advocating their line of thinking. And what was that comment about anime?
Ugh.
Pyrrhus
Member
There has certainly been an attempt to paint him simply as a self-hating homosexual man because that would be a more comfortable scenario in some circles. But he had an ex-wife and a child and his father remarked that he became visibly angry at the site of gay public displays of affection. So who knows.
The San Bernadino killers just wanted to kill infidels and inspire terror in the name of Islam and the Islamic State. Killed the people the husband worked with everyday and left behind an orphaned baby.
The comment about anime was an MGS reference. Also, whether or not they justified it in their own ideology, I don't think that means they can be impartially considered justified. Sorry if I came on a little strong, but you were the second person in a short span to try to draw some sort of parallel between Imperial Japan and the Islamists of the current day. And my point was that I don't think most people would like where that line of reasoning would take them.
MisterFalcon
Member
But blaming The West (hunderds of millions of people) is just OK.
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
Why does the world seem to not be doing anything about this?
Because there is no known solution. Not an easy one at least.
Clockwork5
Member
Agreed that Islam should not be the target of blame; however, the connection is crystal clear and should not be ignored.
Sinfamy
Member
No religion should be immune to criticism.
If you said "not by putting the blame on all Muslims", I'd agree with you, even though no one here is doing that.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that religions conflict with modern values.
There are such thing as good and bad cultures, and aspects of them should be criticized and not allowed to grow.
But I don't know how to solve this problem, however it seems to be an endless cycle of terrorist attacks, discussions about Islam back and forth, vigil, then rinse and repeat.
I wasn't comparing Imperial Japan and Islamists. In what you quoted actually all I was doing was answering another question about if I could name a suicide attack against non civilians that could theoretically be justified.
But this is off topic.
Why not? It's a toxic ideology. Toxic ideologies should be criticized.
We shouldn't blame the ideology of Islam for Islamic terrorism? Really?
Religion, be it Islam, Christianity or Budism must be criticized.
It can foster extremist views if left unchecked.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Seriously, with so many small groups of radicals spread out across the EU and elsewhere it seems nigh impossible to squash it completely. Sadly it will prob take an extremely dystopian and heavily surveilled state where everyone is tracked constantly with no privacy whatsoever to cull something of this magnitude. Or something like Children of Men's Bexhill :/
Agreed. And if it continues it's going to be harder to ignore.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
Absolutely tragic. Just awful.
I feel like every time something like this happens everyone around me gets a wee bit more racist.
I feel like every time something like this happens everyone around me gets a wee bit more racist.
Night Angel
Member
You'd be right if you said:
Not putting the entirety of the blame on Islam.
Because it certainly is a factor, one among many. Obviously Islam alone isn't going to make someone a terrorist, neither will poverty, disillusionment, or mental illness. But to pretend Islam (or at least the radical interpretation of Islam) does not play a significant factor in these types of attacks is foolish.
I'd just like to point out that this is partly the point of attacks like this.
We can start with holding dictators accountable, making sure their people are the real beneficiaries of their natural resources. Free press, better education, infrastructure, hospitals etc. It's a start.
Palette Swap
Member
This is so disheartening. My thoughts go to the victims and their families. :-(
Going to check on my coworkers on vacation in that general area.
Going to check on my coworkers on vacation in that general area.
Pyrrhus
Member
How does one hold a dictator of a foreign nation accountable, though? Do we go to war and remove him from power? Didn't work in Iraq. Directly led to ISIS in fact. Do we back his opponents? If so, which ones? In any case, that rarely seems to work if Libya and Syria are anything to go by. And that's not even getting into the fact that a lot of the proponents of Islamic terrorism deliberately operate outside of a nation state structure, so who do we target then? Thorny.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Just because you don't read about what the world is doing doesn't mean they are not doing anything. From a military standpoint, the groups have been losing every single month this year but that doesn't have much meaning when one guy with a truck can kill dozens of people. That's assuming this was connected to IS, if it's another group then there's not much you can do if they have no stronghold to attack.
That would be a great start indeed.
Horrible attack, condolences to victims' families. Hopefully critical wounded will manage to pull through.
I am afraid, this won't be the last such attack. We have to tackle the "root cause" which whether we like it or not is connected to Islam. Unless muslims become self critical and openly say that yes this is wrong in Islam/Quran/Sharia or I oppose it, things are likely to get worse. Islam has to have democracy and dissent within it. It needs to reform it and filter out bad stuff.
I am afraid, this won't be the last such attack. We have to tackle the "root cause" which whether we like it or not is connected to Islam. Unless muslims become self critical and openly say that yes this is wrong in Islam/Quran/Sharia or I oppose it, things are likely to get worse. Islam has to have democracy and dissent within it. It needs to reform it and filter out bad stuff.
That's the point. I'm really scared about the 2017 elections :/
Can still go up: 18 more persons are in critical condition. :/
The West has a pretty shitty record with overthrowing dictators lately.
MisterFalcon
Member
The Saudis are pretty good at spreading oil wealth among their people. Too bad a lot of these people then send the money to ISIS.
Okay, I've seen the footage of pre-attack, during and after and it seems like the perpetrator had done his homework on the sort of crowd that would be gathering in that area. It was dense but not so dense that the bodies would have stopped him from going even further or made him stray off-course. The truck was moving seriously fast even on the slowed down footage it looks like it's unstoppable. He must have had a clear run up before he started hitting people. Worst thing about one of the videos for me was someone shouting 'aidez ma mère!'. Really hits home that these were people just out enjoying themselves.
Fucking unbelievable.
Fucking unbelievable.
Sirpopopop
Member
Yeah really.
Most of us aren't cool with blaming the religion of 1 billion people for the actions of a crazed few.
EatinOlives
Member
Modern technology has afforded the common layperson ways to turn it into weapons. All a person needs is a fucked up head and access to a public venue. There really isn't much you can do because you can't have tight security checks literally everywhere there could be people.
Milly Osworth
Member
Crazed few? What about all the islamic countries where women are worthless and gay people aren't allowed to live? Religion is nothing but trouble and extremism is part of it.
I'm pretty sure we tried that. It didn't end well.
One thing that makes me scratch my head is that Muslims have been living in the west for decades. Why is it only in the last decade and a half that we've seen these levels of sustained attacks? Hell even the near constant suicide attacks in many Muslim countries is relatively a new phenomenon. What changed in the interpretation of the scripture to suddenly excuse this behaviour?
RIP to the victims, and my heart is with the people of France tonight.
You know we're talking about Islamic terrorism, by its very definition its based on the religion...
You can ignore that, but that seems pretty ignorant.
Right. I didn't read it as in go overthrow dictators because like you said that does not work.
Progressive forever however like liberals and socialists should be supported because those are the people who are going to improve and free societies.
They said he's 31. That's all I've heard on the news.
Any Questions
Member
Most religions divide people. Therefore religion at its core sets people against each other.
There are positive aspect's within the message, however until people learn to abandon this concept of faith in some bearded vengeful god and actually realise were all fundamentally the same, am afraid things like this will continue.
I feel very sad for the innocent victims. may their families and loved ones take some comfort from the fact that good people are with them in this horrible time.
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