In that encounter (and in the hotel) enemy counts are a lot higher than you think, which can occasionally give the impression that the game is silently spawning new enemies mid-encounter (it's not, the game's pretty good at signaling through dialogue/scripted events when new enemies enter the map). Both floors of the hotel have plenty of enemies, for example.
The first few tries I concentrated my efforts on the left, since I would get spotted at shot at from the guy up on the second floor to the right. Then one time I was just like "fuck it, there's way too many dudes here, I'm going to the right" where the coffee shop is. Dudes followed me there even though there was no real reason for them to be there. Then after dying a couple of times I went to the second floor to take out the sniper (the guy he shoots 1 minute into the video) after figuring out how to get there and then they followed me to the second floor too.
The generator was running every time I was trying it. Only a couple of zombies spawn when you first approach the generator, but the bloater and all the other zombies don't come out until you start up the generator.
That's the thing though, if a game is simply too hard I just tick the difficulty back down with no fuss. What prompted me to make the thread was several cases of just objectively bad enemy behaviors/bugs/AI, contrasting all the really good things I kept hearing about Survivor/Grounded difficulty (and to be fair, I never touched Grounded, nor do I crank the difficulty all the way up with games when I'm feeling like a challenge. I typically do one or two notches above normal, but tried Survivor in TLOU due to the praises I kept hearing).
In that encounter (and in the hotel) enemy counts are a lot higher than you think, which can occasionally give the impression that the game is silently spawning new enemies mid-encounter (it's not, the game's pretty good at signaling through dialogue/scripted events when new enemies enter the map). Both floors of the hotel have plenty of enemies, for example, and the entire area you're in while Ellie is covering you has a lot of enemies wandering around (more than initially meet the eye).
The only time I didn't like the game was the Hotel (PS4).
I skipped all the enemies and had to take down a bunch before advancing to the next area.
This was the part where
Ellie is trying to get the door opened and you're up a staircase, and going to the flooded part, which I found much easier.
Being forced to take down so many enemies in an area I was not ready to fight them in succession was tedious and kind of stupid to me.
Eventually, I got pissed off and just Terminatored them all from floor 1 to floor 2 and that did the trick. One of the few parts in TLOU where stealth meant diddly shit.
This was done on Grounded and Grounded is the only way I play when I go back.
I'd say start on hard with listen mode. Survivor is going to be a brutal experience the first time through for the majority of people, even experienced gamers.
The thing is to have a mindset to a cinematic experience, gameplay is perfect with that in mind, if you want a stealth simulator or super complex systems you'll obviously be dissapointed.
Also Survivor sucks, people saying that it's great is because they are tired of playing on hard and want new challenges.
Everyone surprised that he started the game first time on Survivor, that shit gets parroted CONSTANTLY here, about how Survivor/Grounded are how the game was meant to be played, and how first timers get the real experience that way, so it's no surprise when someone does it and has a bad experience. What those players don't tell you is that they started on Hard, since Survivor was locked on PS3 to start with, and already knew the game for their Survivor runs, along with all of their upgrades from the previous. Also, I used listen mode(albeit sparingly) my first Hard run, as I felt some of the encounters were bullshit without it. Repeat dying when I didn't make any grave mistakes isn't fun to me. That was really only a couple areas though.
I'd say start on hard with listen mode. Survivor is going to be a brutal experience the first time through for the majority of people, even experienced gamers.
Also, I used listen mode(albeit sparingly) my first Hard run, as I felt some of the encounters were bullshit without it. Repeat dying when I didn't make any grave mistakes isn't fun to me. That was really only a couple areas though.
Yeah I'm playing the Remaster. I wasn't aware the game is bugged, that would explain why I never heard about these things when the game first released. I definitely think I encountered the bolded in that last little anecdote of mine in the OP. The game deciding to relocate an enemy across a floor after I respawned had me like "what the fuck is going on in this game?""
Oh well, Normal it is. At least if the game bugs out then the easier difficulty should even it out.
Yeah, good luck with it. It's a truly great game. If Normal is proving too easy, push it up a little to hard.
For the record, I haven't spoken to anyone else who noted these bugs. I'm talking from experience of 5-6 playthroughs on the PS3 version and 3 playthroughs on the PS4 version. The PS4 version is generally brilliant but definitely has a few hangups which are totally absent from the original version. Just little moments when I remember going 'this has never happened before. This is weird. Cracks are showing.'
FYI there are two encounters which also pull cheeky shit. I.e. it's impossible to stealth them. The one with Ellie and the rifle is the first and I think there's a second one not long after. You can stealth them to a point but then it'll force alert.
Remember that the game shines best when you combine stealth and combat. If you're spotted, go full ham. Beat people to shit. Shoot people to shit. Be savage. Then when a moment to slip off presents itself, do so and go stealth again.
Everyone surprised that he started the game first time on Survivor, that shit gets parroted CONSTANTLY here, about how Survivor/Grounded are how the game was meant to be played, and how first timers get the real experience that way, so it's no surprise when someone does it and has a bad experience. What those players don't tell you is that they started on Hard, since Survivor was locked on PS3 to start with, and already knew the game for their Survivor runs, along with all of their upgrades from the previous. Also, I used listen mode(albeit sparingly) my first Hard run, as I felt some of the encounters were bullshit without it. Repeat dying when I didn't make any grave mistakes isn't fun to me. That was really only a couple areas though.
Hey, that's not true at all. 90% of people say Hard with listen mode off. That's the absolute consensus.
There's a minority who say Survivor (I'm one of them, but I think I no longer believe after hearing about OPs experience).
I also know almost nobody who likes Grounded mode. On Grounded the game almost becomes a puzzle. You need to find the absolute most efficient and straightforward way through every encounter, and your on-the-spot strategy needs to be next-level. You need to really understand the AI, mechanics and levels.
Your not wrong OP, your experience was just different. I'd recommend not playing on the hardest difficulty for your first run, its just going to be frustrating by default
The game is more about atmosphere and story than it is about stealth or shooting. It's well made, but don't go in expecting the game to feel super fresh mechanically.
The sense of place and dialogue are really what makes the game shine.
So how do you find out that playing on lower difficulty is garbage? My comment is directed towards ppl who pop a game in and choose the hardest difficulty then later complain it's frustrating.
By the complete lack of a challenge that ought to be in a DMC game.
You initially wrote "higher", not "highest". But people that choose harder difficulties, particularly the hardest, from the outset then complain about the frustrating gameplay are weird, I agree.
This is probably the problem you're having. Playing the game on anything but the default settings brings a lot of the game's design shortcomings to light. I played it on normal first and enjoyed it a lot. I started a new game on hard, no stranger to challenging myself in games, and thought 'I hate this'. It basically asks you to be unerringly careful and yawn-inducingly patient. A lot. It's made worse with inconsistent enemy patterns and behaviour. It's essentially videogame masochism.
The game is perfectly enjoyable as it is. Make mistakes, learn the game, have fun. Try the hard stuff after you've beaten it, should you wish.
Yeah, good luck with it. It's a truly great game. If Normal is proving too easy, push it up a little to hard.
For the record, I haven't spoken to anyone else who noted these bugs. I'm talking from experience of 5-6 playthroughs on the PS3 version and 3 playthroughs on the PS4 version. The PS4 version is generally brilliant but definitely has a few hangups which are totally absent from the original version. Just little moments when I remember going 'this has never happened before. This is weird. Cracks are showing.'
FYI there are two encounters which also pull cheeky shit. I.e. it's impossible to stealth them. The one with Ellie and the rifle is the first and I think there's a second one not long after. You can stealth them to a point but then it'll force alert.
Remember that the game shines best when you combine stealth and combat. If you're spotted, go full ham. Beat people to shit. Shoot people to shit. Be savage. Then when a moment to slip off presents itself, do so and go stealth again.
Thanks! I mean I'm still enjoying the game when the encounters aren't annoying/slow/boring and Uncharted-tier cutscenes at 60 fps is truly a sight to behold, so I'm definitely gonna keep playing, just at a lower difficulty
I mean I'm definitely encountering straight up bugs in Remastered so maybe a brave soul can make it through Survivor for the first playthrough if the bugs weren't there. When the game worked I was making good progress, I mean looking at this playlist I made it to Part 17 of 35 on Survivor so I'd like to say I SORT OF knew what I was doing
Good move. Normal also enables you to be more experimental and have more fun improvising your way through encounters, since supplies and ammo are plentiful.
Hard with listen mode off is the ideal way to play it the first time. You're insane for starting with survivor.
Honestly, the game shares a lot of similarities with Uncharted in that staying in one place "safe" is bad. Uncharted isn't really a cover shooter and TLoU isn't really a game where you can't recover after being found. It's not pure stealth. You have to be on the move. Being proactive in this game pays off. Hiding for more than 30 seconds in any area is bad.
That's not the type of game it is. The game flows very well when you get the stealth gameplay down.
Personally the game has fantastic gameplay. Severely underrated. Not too shootery and not too stealthy, just the right balance.
By the complete lack of a challenge that ought to be in a DMC game.
You initially wrote "higher", not "highest". But people that choose harder difficulties, particularly the hardest, from the outset then complain about the frustrating gameplay are weird, I agree.
Thanks! I mean I'm still enjoying the game when the encounters aren't annoying/slow/boring and Uncharted-tier cutscenes at 60 fps is truly a sight to behold, so I'm definitely gonna keep playing, just at a lower difficulty
I mean I'm definitely encountering straight up bugs in Remastered so maybe a brave soul can make it through Survivor for the first playthrough if the bugs weren't there. When the game worked I was making good progress, I mean looking at this playlist I made it to Part 17 of 35 on Survivor so I'd like to say I SORT OF knew what I was doing
Survivor is not where to start regardless of how skilled you are at games. Hard seems to be a good difficulty for those already acclimated to games like this. Normal can also be played without the "detective" vision powers by simply not using it.
That being said, the AI certainly has some bugs and quirks to it and the checkpoints did act oddly, but none of this stuff happened frequent enough to me for it to be a major issue. It usually works most of the time and it works well. I certainly didn't feel like the bugs were anything out of the ordinary compared to any other game of this type.
As for the "seeking" AI, I actually enjoy that they gravitate towards your general area and aren't always on a set pathway. It makes the encounters dynamic and keeps me on my toes at all time. I like that I have to constantly be aware of what's going on around me and adjust, in real time, my sneaking pathway and actions. It's then time for quick guerilla warfare tactics. Hit the enemies hard and fast and retreat and hide and setup the next ambush. If find this gameplay loop incredibly fun.
Although this seems to depend on the encounter. A few areas the AI seems to have set patrol routines and others they have more dynamic routines that change.
And if you're often finding yourself having enemies sneak up on you then maybe you should try using listening mode. That's really what it's for, to better help you manage all the people you can't normally see to help you plan your next attack.
Regardless, if you think you're going to 100% A+ stealth your way through a game you haven't played before, I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
EDIT: Note that my experience was with the PS3 version so the bug experience between us could possibly vary. I don't actually know how the PS4 version compares in that regard.
Grounded was the only difficulty i found to be hard, and it was only in one section. I felt survival was the most fitting, and rewarding diffilculty for the game while the lower difficulty levels just felt too trivial.
Remember that the game shines best when you combine stealth and combat. If you're spotted, go full ham. Beat people to shit. Shoot people to shit. Be savage. Then when a moment to slip off presents itself, do so and go stealth again.
I want to emphasize this. Do not try to stealth your way through every encounter. It never felt like the game was designed this way. You're supposed to get caught and enjoy the chaos that ensues. The game has a nice ebb and flow of quiet puzzle moments, sneaking around and loud, savage gunfights. Go with it.
I want to emphasize this. Do not try to stealth your way through every encounter. It never felt like the game was designed this way. You're supposed to get caught and enjoy the chaos that ensues. The game has a nice ebb and flow of quiet puzzle moments, sneaking around and loud, savage gunfights. Go with it.
I'm going to third this. That is exactly how ND demoed the game and from my multiple playthroughs I certainly believe it's how I had the most fun with it. As a stealth fan I've been bread to do perfect stealth runs and restart upon being seen but this just isn't that kind of game.
Thanks! I mean I'm still enjoying the game when the encounters aren't annoying/slow/boring and Uncharted-tier cutscenes at 60 fps is truly a sight to behold, so I'm definitely gonna keep playing, just at a lower difficulty
You don't have to play in survivor mode to share gameplay. I just was curious about how you're using stealth, approaching combat, if you're using the combo / melee system, etc. regardless of difficulty. Also, if you think enemies "just teleport" you can play with listen mode enabled and see that there might just be more enemies than you realized, or when you respawned they are put in different spots than before. Not had any real issue with enemies moving around at impossible speed.
Uh, I'm pretty sure in broad daylight you would easily miss someone half a football field away crawling around in a sneaking suit. What a strange statement.
I've been playing this game for the first time also and it has been a let down after hearing so many good things of the game, I admit that the first couple levels were really interesting and since I've heard this was some kind of survival horror I was playing it really safe (stealth, saving bullets, etc) but I realized that my pockets were basically full of stuff so I began to play this game more as a shooter, more reckless and giving some bullets to everything that happened to come near me.
Then, that city level came and what a bore it was, humans encounters were dull compared to clickers and the tone of the game moved forward a full TPS, the AI was bad, there were times when I could be jumping in and out of windows killing everybody with silent take downs and nobody will give a shit about how many people you have killed so far also, if by any chance I was spotted I could go full Rambo and kill everybody in sight being as loud as possible. Right now I managed to meet with
Joel's brother
and things have been improving so far, except for my next point...
Freaking Ellie, that dumb kid needs to stop being so dumb story wise, she is always complaining about how everybody always left her on her own but she fails to realize that most of the time she is acting as a complete jerk to the people around her, doing her best to not follow any instruction that is given and/or finding new ways to put everybody in danger
I am looking specially at that escaping with the horse part
, at least Ashley in RE4 was capable of following instructions for the sake of survival or keep her ass inside a freaking trash container for as long as needed.
on a technical level, the game looks good, thats something that can't be denied, sometimes you just stop to look around the environment for the sake of looking at it, the gameplay is nice, I still detest aiming with an analog but this adds some difficulty for me.
Finally, I need to add that the story has been really bland so far because it usually follows tropes of the zombie genre, yeah, monsters are cordiceps but they pretty much behave like zombies, also most of the characters have been falling into some archetype making it pretty obvious when some of them are going to die or do some stupid shit, my biggest surprise so far was when
that guy who was living alone in that town managed to survive the whole encounter with Joel and the brat
thats it so far and I might be using this thread for future comments on the mater
I'm going to third this. That is exactly how ND demoed the game and from my multiple playthroughs I certainly believe it's how I had the most fun with it. As a stealth fan I've been bread to do perfect stealth runs and restart upon being seen but this just isn't that kind of game.
I agree with that for sure. I know people that seem to have a habit of trying to play any game that has any kind of stealth component to it as a pass or fail affair where they immediately restart anytime they get spotted or screw up. That would drive me crazy. Just let this game flow, deal with screwups and try to win and get out of the bad situations. Don't give up!
First, just stop trying to play it on Survivior its meant to be difficult and you already understanding how all of the games mechanics work that was your first mistake.
Second, Start the game over on normal or hard with listening on so you can learn how characters move and whatnot if you get used to it easily then feel free to turn it off decide for yourself if you like it or not. If you want to see the story and characters and how all of that plays out then just play on normal, if you care more about the gameplay try hard instead either option will be less frustrating then what your experiencing on Survivior a difficulty that was locked by default on PS3.
Also, while I didn't use listen mode in my initial playthrough on PS3 and PS4, I've used it here and there because it's used in the multiplayer (which is pretty fun - add me on PSN if you'd like to play sometime )
I started on grounded and found it too hard so I dropped down to Survivor and it seemed appropriate. I love the game mostly due to its story and how much I can empathize with Joel as a character, but I can definitely say that the higher difficulties in this game aren't really even fun, they're just aggravating, or at least that's how I perceived it in any case.
Felt the same with most points in the OP. Didnt like it on normal "play on survivor". Played on survivor still didnt enjoy it. "Play it for the story and characters" they did nothing for me. It was the last ND game i gave a chance to. They are clearly not for me. Opinions and all but i just cannot get the praise the game gets. Like, i didnt LOVE bloodborne either, but i can understand the praise that game gets.
My issue is that the game constantly had guys follow me around even though I was stealthed. If I spent 20 minutes in one side of the map stealthed, dudes were all over that area.
Well, but if enemies see dudes constantly going to "check" one spot and no one ever comes back it makes sense that they'll get a little suspicious and come investigate
But yeah, it can be exploited. Tbh I dont think tlou works best in hardcore stealth mode or if you peek behind the curtains of the AI for too long. The game seems to be balanced for action+light occasional stealth and I think it works wonderfully as that.
The game isn't supposed to be pure stealth. The most tense moments for me where when I got spotted and had to take out a bunch of guys with fuck all ammo. Sneaking around to try and get behind them while they were searching for me, taking them out one at a time. For me it was moments like this where the game shined, can't remember many other games that had me on the edge of my seat as often. The only parts you can really stealth through undetected are against clickers.
Easily one of my top 5 games of all time. Everything about it is so fantastic that I can easily forgive the minor issues.
Monopolise the cars, then monopolise the right hand side of the area - particularly the interior of the shop and its upstairs. You can milk that shop and the adjoining walkway/first-storey office and breeze through the whole area.
Well, but if enemies see dudes constantly going to "check" one spot and no one ever comes back it makes sense that they'll get a little suspicious and come investigate
But yeah, it can be exploited. Tbh I dont think tlou works best in hardcore stealth mode or if you peek behind the curtains of the AI for too long. The game seems to be balanced for action+light occasional stealth and I think it works wonderfully as that.
I just played through this game! First on easy. Then on grounded.
I did it on easy because I wasn't expecting to enjoy the gameplay, but wanted to experience the story.
I jumped all the way up to grounded because I'm insane and I ended up enjoying the gameplay more than expected.
There were times Grounded made me want to quit. But surprisingly enough I found that a lot of sections I'd had trouble stealthing through on easy (using listen mode!), I could slip by everyone without getting caught. The hotel. The entire snowy chapter. Basically all of the final chapter!
Sometimes, too, you just gotta fucking bolt. Like when I was in the flooded area with the keycard, I activated the generator (stupidly, doing this first gets you attacked and there's nothing you can do about it...), sprinted to the keycard, sprinted to the door, and I was out. (I did fail once trying to swipe the keycard before opening the door. That was dumb af.)
Man that game was good.
Haven't played Left Behind, yet. I'll get to it.
---
you wanna rage tho try the multiplayer that shit is fucked if you're new (and doesn't seem all that fun anyway)
Monopolise the cars, then monopolise the right hand side of the area - particularly the interior of the shop and its upstairs. You can milk that shop and the adjoining walkway/first-storey office and breeze through the whole area.
It's because you cannot kill the sniper until you actually go INSIDE the building. Heel there is even a missing character model there and the gun doesn't move when it shoots !
There were times Grounded made me want to quit. But surprisingly enough I found that a lot of sections I'd had trouble stealthing through on easy (using listen mode!), I could slip by everyone without getting caught. The hotel. The entire snowy chapter. Basically all of the final chapter!
Everyone surprised that he started the game first time on Survivor, that shit gets parroted CONSTANTLY here, about how Survivor/Grounded are how the game was meant to be played, and how first timers get the real experience that way, so it's no surprise when someone does it and has a bad experience. What those players don't tell you is that they started on Hard, since Survivor was locked on PS3 to start with, and already knew the game for their Survivor runs, along with all of their upgrades from the previous. Also, I used listen mode(albeit sparingly) my first Hard run, as I felt some of the encounters were bullshit without it. Repeat dying when I didn't make any grave mistakes isn't fun to me. That was really only a couple areas though.
I definitely think I encountered the bolded in that last little anecdote of mine in the OP. The game deciding to relocate an enemy across a floor after I respawned had me like "what the fuck is going on in this game?""
