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[bman94]

Every time I think about the Nintendo 64 the games that pop up in my mind is Super Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie, GoldenEye 007, Donkey Kong 64, Turok, Mario Kart 64, Paper Mario, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Sin & Punishment, F-Zero X and so much more. But the one thing all these games have in common is that they are all 3D games.

Now I know 3D was the hotness at the time but there was still lots of great 2D games of that era like Astal, Rayman, the Capcom & SNK fighting games, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night all which the PlayStation and the Saturn handled very well. So what happened with the Nintendo 64?

The only 2D games I can think off the top of my head is Mortal Kombat Trilogy, Killer Instinct and Mischief Makers and none of them are hand drawn sprites. So did the Nintendo 64 have problems with sprite based games or did developers just op out from using it cause of the 3D capabilities?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

3D was the new hotness

 

[Doomshroom]

3d was that thing at that point.

 

[TheMoon]

Publishers. Not devs.

Do you not remember that 3D was everything back then? You want people to buy your new game. Why would you make a game that looks like what they've played on the old machine they have already?

Simple as that.

 

[KZXcellent]

It was the new popular thing and I'm sure many devs were pushed into doing 3D games. I remember Megaman Legends being a 3D game because Capcom didn't want them to put out a 2D game on their system at the time.

 

[sinxtanx]

if your game wasn't 3D, it got SLAMMED for it

2D was SHAMEFUL

 

[Coen]

I think I've read or heard somewhere Nintendo actively rejecting 2D games, at least early on in N64s lifecycle.

 

[RaffAO]

Ogre Battle & Yoshi's Story too.

I imagine the limited texture memory might have similarly limited 2D art compared with the PS1.

 

[chronic_archaic]

Bangai-O is another one I thought of. But yeah, not to mention how popular 3D games were at the time the hardware itself was the most powerful which probably helped. And the bigger market was on PlayStation, the niche market on Saturn which was a 2D beast - Nintendo was still predominantly the kids thing to play.

 

[Aeana]

We had a thread recently where people listed out the 2D N64 games: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1203824&page=1

 

[ghibli99]

And of those 2D games, weren't the sprites filtered? I seem to remember everything just having that blurry look.

 

[LordRaptor]

The only 2D games I can think off the top of my head is Mortal Kombat Trilogy, Killer Instinct and Mischief Makers and none of them are hand drawn sprites. So did the Nintendo 64 have problems with sprite based games or did developers just op out from using it cause of the 3D capabilities?

A computer doesn't know or care about the difference between a photo and a hand drawn sprite when it comes to rendering a sprite.

 

[Neifirst]

Now I know 3D was the hotness at the time but there was still lots of great 2D games of that era like Astal, Rayman, the Capcom & SNK fighting games, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

You managed to mention just about every 2D game of note out of Playstation/N64 libraries that were well over 1000 games. 3D was the thing from 1994 onward and 2D didn't get much traction again until (arguably) the Gameboy Advance released in 2001.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I think I've read or heard somewhere Nintendo actively rejecting 2D games, at least early on in N64s lifecycle.

Maybe they had Bernie Stolar of their own.

 

[TheMoon]

I think I've read or heard somewhere Nintendo actively rejecting 2D games, at least early on in N64s lifecycle.

Someone's been feeding you BS.

Or why would they put out 2D games on N64 themselves.

Mischief Makers (1997), the prime 2D game on the N64 was published by Nintendo, FYI.

Besides, Nintendo is not the company doing concept approvals for their platforms.

 

[L Thammy]

I think it was a little of both. Remember, this was the time when Battle Arena Toshinden was relevant. For no other reason then because it was a 3D game.

 

[Cwarrior]

Yoshie story looks as good as any of the best 2D games of that era.

3D was the new hotness and publishers where pushing hard for everything 3D.

 

[stilgar]

2D? What's that?
My big brother's nes does 2D. It's so lame.

Now that's graphics !!!!!!&!!!&

 

[maxcriden]

I think I've read or heard somewhere Nintendo actively rejecting 2D games, at least early on in N64s lifecycle.

This rings a bell for me also.

 

[120v]

in today's "anything goes" world of gaming output it's easy to forget how "dead" 2D was. and it wasn't just the mid-late 90s... well up until the 00's 2D was seen as a thing of the past. like literally people thought there would never be another 2D game again save for portables or whatever

as for N64 most of the output was from western devs and they were more interested in getting the system to do what PC was doing at the time, so naturally you got a lot of FPSs and such. there were quite a few 2D games coming out of japan

 

[TheMoon]

This rings a bell for me also.

see above

 

[Blobbers]

I think I've read or heard somewhere Nintendo actively rejecting 2D games, at least early on in N64s lifecycle.

I thought I heard this about Sony during the PS1 era. Even Capcom had to make a deal with sony to give them a 3D game if they wanted to release Megaman or smt like that

 

[IceTheRetroKid]

It was just something that wasn't thought of back then because 3D was the hottest thing to think of.

The N64 also was 64-bit so it actually welcomed 2D games even less than 32-bit. 32-bit on the Playstation still was something ideal for developers to use, while the N64 it almost didn't seem worth it to make a 2D 64-bit game where people can't tell between 32-bit and 64-bit very well in a 2D game.

The N64 ended up being a system that could actually produce better looking polygons than the Playstaion and the Sega Saturn so that was prefered.

That...and look at that controller! It's not the friendliest idea for playing 2D games.

As a kid, the most common 2D games I knew about were Yoshi's Story, Super Smash Bros. 64, and Kirby 64...and even the latter 2 are made with 3D polys to show off the graphics.

(Btw, Mischef Makers rocks.)

 

[NEO0MJ]

I think I've read or heard somewhere Nintendo actively rejecting 2D games, at least early on in N64s lifecycle.

How does that explain Mischief Makers, though? But then again the game had a rotoscoped 3D feel to it.

 

[L Thammy]

Besides, Nintendo is not the company doing concept approvals for their platforms.

They do approvals of the games that are released on their platform, though. Wasn't Sony known for rejecting PlayStation games if they didn't look good enough, or am I confused?

 

[Calm Mind]

A shame really since the N64 could do 2D well but the overwhelming odds of costs and lack of interest prevented most 2D games at the time from existing on the console.

 

[FTF]

We'll always have Mischief Makers

 

[Branduil]

Did the N64 even have dedicated 2D hardware? I think I heard that all the 2D games just used flat textured polygons instead of actual "sprites" and tiles per se.

 

[JordanN]

if your game wasn't 3D, it got SLAMMED for it

2D was SHAMEFUL

Eh, I think this is hyperbole. 3D definitely made for better marketing but 2D was still going strong. Street Fighter and Starcraft had no problem being sprites.

I think it comes down to the N64 just selling so bad and losing a ton of third parties who would have made 2D games for it.

 

[Forkball]

The Sega Saturn could do 2D games well in that era.

Remember the Sega Saturn?

 

[KojiKnight]

Could be worse... Sony activately sabotaged 2D games in the West on PS2... RIP Working Designs...

Eh, I think this is hyperbole. 3D definitely made for better marketing but 2D was still going strong. Street Fighter and Starcraft had no problem being sprites.

I think it comes down to the N64 just selling so bad and losing a ton of third parties who would have made 2D games for it.

Starcraft was on pc, completely different beast... Street Fighter was also massively in decline in this era, not a great example.

 

[120v]

Did the N64 even have dedicated 2D hardware? I think I heard that all the 2D games just used flat textured polygons instead of actual "sprites" per se.

Project Wonder J (or whatever it was called) had actual 2D sprites iirc.

i think it was virtually the same as the original DS in this regard. it could do one or the other

 

[daviyoung]

Didn't even the 2D games have that weird texture smoothing thing going on, that just made them look blurry?

 

[Vic20]

The Sega Saturn could do 2D games well in that era.

Remember the Sega Saturn?

The Saturn was designed to excel at 2D, its 3D chips were bolted on to compete with Playstation at the last minute. Despite its strong 2D capabilities, it still required an additional RAM cart to handle "full" animation arcade ports.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I think the main thing is memory. 2D games take up more memory than 3D games. As we all know, the N64 is held back by the cart size. I wonder what 2D games would be like on the N64 if it wasn't held back by carts?

 

[wrowa]

We'll always have Mischief Makers

Didn't that one use 2D sprites with polygon backgrounds?

 

[Moor-Angol]

The Sega Saturn could do 2D games well in that era.

Remember the Sega Saturn?

yes, it's the one who sold in Japan more than N64

 

[Branduil]

The Saturn was designed to excel at 2D, its 3D chips were bolted on to compete with Playstation at the last minute. Despite its strong 2D capabilities, it still required an additional RAM cart to handle "full" animation arcade ports.

Man Sega towards the end of the Genesis era really was just one fuckup after another.

Project Wonder J (or whatever it was called) had actual 2D sprites iirc.

i think it was virtually the same as the original DS in this regard. it could do one or the other

The DS seemed a lot stronger at dealing with 2D than the N64.

 

[GooeyHeat]

On a side note, I always thought it was really, REALLY weird that the Saturn was in development as a 2D-focused system, because SEGA was a huge pioneer of 3D games in arcades. Did they not think there was a future in that direction or was the company just that fragmented?

 

[TheMoon]

They do approvals of the games that are released on their platform, though.

That's just regular ass lotcheck / certification. Checking if the thing makes end user hardware explode or not.

 

[120v]

The DS seemed a lot stronger at dealing with 2D than the N64.

i don't think it had problems "handling" 2D just nobody utilized it

 

[GuyKazama]

On a side note, I always thought it was really, REALLY weird that the Saturn was in development as a 2D-focused system, because SEGA was a huge pioneer of 3D games in arcades. Did they not think there was a future in that direction or was the company just that fragmented?

It just further highlights the internal communication problems Sega was having at the time.

 

[Branduil]

On a side note, I always thought it was really, REALLY weird that the Saturn was in development as a 2D-focused system, because SEGA was a huge pioneer of 3D games in arcades. Did they not think there was a future in that direction or was the company just that fragmented?

Well this is the same Sega that thought that making a 32-bit add-on for the Genesis at the exact same time they were making the Saturn was a good idea.

 

[Leafhopper]

Starcraft was on pc, completely different beast... Street Fighter was also massively in decline in this era, not a great example.

Spoiler

You are still right though.

 

[xmajinjoshx]

There was a 2D Goemon game on the N64.

 

[SpiceMelange]

The reason Yoshi Story was made was to show devs that 2D games could be made on the n64. It was a trend thing, not a tech thing.

 

[Dreamwriter]

On a side note, I always thought it was really, REALLY weird that the Saturn was in development as a 2D-focused system, because SEGA was a huge pioneer of 3D games in arcades. Did they not think there was a future in that direction or was the company just that fragmented?

I think Sega wanted to hold 3D for the following generation. Don't forget, they originally planned on releasing their Saturn-generation console years earlier as a NeoGeo-esque 2D powerhouse, but delayed it so they could release the 32X. Sega wanted to wait until 3D tech would be more affordable for the home - the Saturn was super expensive at launch and they ended up losing so damn much money from the system when they dropped its price to compete with Sony, that it eventually drove them out of business (yes, it was Dreamcast that did the felling blow, but it was the Saturn that ran the coffers dry so they couldn't afford another failure, or afford to tweak the Dreamcast to compete better).

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

Better than Saturn.

 

[Bulzeeb]

i don't think it had problems "handling" 2D just nobody utilized it

yeah, I remember watching some screenshots of this games and thinking that it looked amazing and that I wanted more 2d games on the console

 

[WillyFive]

Doing a 2D game in the late 90s was suicide. If it wasn't in 3D, it looked ancient and dated.