mercenar1e
Member
like Erdogan you provide no specifics because its all tales from the ass.
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Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal
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like Erdogan you provide no specifics because its all tales from the ass.
Well you'll still know better but here are the things i saw with my own eyes:
-Gatherring students from their own schools into '''education camps'' and teaching them about their way of Islam. I know LOTS of people who are been to these camps.Here's your brainwashing.
- In Turkey you have to attend exams go get into good colleges and high schools and Gulenists were so deep into government agencies they always shared every info avaible from those exams with the best students in their schools. Talk about equality.
-Yet again if you want to become a teacher or want to work in government you have to attend an exam called KPSS and get a good score in order to get employed. Because they were so deep into government no matter which score the college-graduated people got from the KPSS exam Gulenists always placed their factious people into required positions in order to secure their place in our society. A lot of people in my family and friends were left unemployed because of this situation.
TheRealTalker
Banned
Didn't see this posted
If the country was smart they would take this time to try and iron out each others differences rather then go fully insane
maybe take the opportunity to stop shelling the kurds and build trust with them
alas I fear that won't happen
-------------------
Huge fire near the Nato Base
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/757320929089298432
If the country was smart they would take this time to try and iron out each others differences rather then go fully insane
maybe take the opportunity to stop shelling the kurds and build trust with them
alas I fear that won't happen
-------------------
Huge fire near the Nato Base
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/757320929089298432
SilentRacoon
Member
lmao, WERE YOU THERE?
Fine. Enjoy Erdogan's Turkey.
Eh? Odd. Though I don't see how there's any relation to this mess other than the timing.
I see. I guess from my western point of view Erdogan is trying to do the same as the president so there's not a huge difference there, but as you have said I don't live in Turkey and don't know much about Turkish politics. I could be all wrong.
mercenar1e
Member
You're probably right. The problem is that you think AKP is any different. It seems to me Gulen has been doing this because he orchestrated the political influence together with Erdogan, and now knows this is the only way to enact change. All of the big offices in education, military and judiciary are government appointed. I was worried about all those deans getting fired after the failed coup, until I asked a friendly professor. Apparently deans are appointed by political party and not based on merit; their dean is a completely unfit moron with no relevant background too, but planted by the AK Parti so he was allowed to stay, whereas all the ones affiliated with another party were removed. The lists of Gulen supporters in education and law were lists the government already long had, because those appointments were the result of a political tit for tat years ago.
The inconvenient truth is that the Gulen infiltration created some modicum of democratic balance, as people had to compromise between the two. Now the AKP power is absolute.
Why would I believe you when you bring nothing to the table? I shouldn't need to believe you either way, you need to come with evidence and facts.
You're seriously equating an unsuccessful coup, where you assume Gülen is responsible without clear evidence, to a successful coup by Erdogan, manipulating media, overthrowing the entire government? That is absolutely fucking ridiculous. The two are not even remotely comparable.
This argument is a myth. Just because you live in a country, doesn't mean you are the authority on the situation. Everything is on-line, people not even in the country could be more in the know than you are. There are other people living in Turkey that vehemently disagree with you.
So stop bullshitting with this argument from authority, and come with some facts. If you're so convinced this Gülen coup and the parallel world is so obvious then it shouldn't be any problem for you to come with evidence.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Erdogan is simply the best gift that anyone who didn't want Turkey to enter the European Union could have, he's delusional, insane and secularily religious.
You're seriously equating this with what Erdogan has done? This is even less than I was expecting. And how do you know all of this is true?
YianGaruga
Banned
Gülen sounds more and more like a comicbook supervillain
Nikodemos
Member
Actually, back in the early '00s, when Erdogan and Gulen were allies, they had split their influence on Turkish society. AKP centered on the poor, the rural folks, the social services and the blue collar people (ex. steelworkers), while Hizmet infiltrated academia, banking and the judiciary. All the judges, prosecutors and detectives in the Generals' trials were Hizmet. It's why Erdogan went ballistic during the corruption trials (when his son became accused): he saw this as a move from Gulen to break his influence.
So claiming that Hizmet has insidiously infiltrated Turkish society is only partially correct: AKP did the exact same thing, but with different social strata.
Maedre
Banned
Jup, it looks the same for me.
My cousin was there when her Gülenist boss told her to dress more conservatively and was fired with some bs excuse when she refused to.
My uncle who was told by his Gülenist boss that he would like my uncle to tell my aunt that she should cover herself up etc.
Gülen used his schools to undermine the military, judiciary, police force and many other institutions with his brainwashed followers who then discriminated against non religious people in those institutions.
These are all open secrets in Turkey and when Erdogan and Gülen were bff's journalists who tried to uncover Gülen's influence and power were prosecuted and jailed (see The Imams army by Ahmet sik).
Look I'm against the coup, against this purge, against Erdogan, against Gülen, just shedding some light on the Gülen movement and why he isn't the good guy as some here think.
YianGaruga
Banned
People here think that?
I don't know if there is someone here who thinks Gullen is a good guy. For me is like two Mafia bosses were working together and sharing an area of profit and now they are no longer friends and one Mafia boss tries to clear the area from the other. I don't see how anybody has anything to win from this except for the members of the Mafia who work for the remaining boss.
This has nothing to do with democracy.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I don't think many here think that Gulen is the good guy (I know I don't). What I don't understand is how some here think Erdogan is the good guy for purging Gulenists, given how he and his party were Gulenists up until not that long ago.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Skynews Arabia :
Turkey minister of Foreign Affairs, our relationship with Washington will be affected if they don't hand in Gulen.
I'll say let the US hand in Gulen Jenies first.
Turkey minister of Foreign Affairs, our relationship with Washington will be affected if they don't hand in Gulen.
I'll say let the US hand in Gulen Jenies first.
FlutterPuffs
Member
You know all of you insulting those with a different viewpoint really need to reflect back on it, seriously. It's appalling.
So sad with what's happening to Turkey. Having the same problem here. A greatly corrupted leader who with every positive advancement takes two steps back with corruption and human and press rights issues that threaten to slowly rot our country.
Condolences.
So sad with what's happening to Turkey. Having the same problem here. A greatly corrupted leader who with every positive advancement takes two steps back with corruption and human and press rights issues that threaten to slowly rot our country.
Condolences.
I have no words
Extradite all CIA operatives and employers to Turkey RIGHT NOW! OR ELSE...
You had to be buddies with him if you wanted to form a working government. He started to build his network in the 70s and soon after appeared shoulder to shoulder with every government from there on.
From the last successful coupist Kenan Evren, Süleyman Demirel, Bülent Ecevit to Tansu Ciller and up until a while ago Erdogan. The few who dared to stand against him were toppled really quickly. Özal was poisoned and Erbakan was stripped of his power only after a year. Could still all be conspiracy theories as there is no hard evidence.
The moment you say "but" is the moment you discredit the previous sentence.
ie "I'm not racist, but"
"I don't agree with torture, but"
The context of a full sentence still matters, look:
"Hitler was bad, but that's no reason to beat someone to death for having read Mein Kampf"
Nothing in the sentence supports the idea that you're secretly a neo-nazi.
Sometimes it's used that way, sometimes it isn't.
Also, the post you quoted was indeed asinine, since most people here do not support torture from the CIA in the first place, but i don't see the point of using the argument you used, since it's just another logical fallacy.
Yeahhh no seems like you didn't read what i said because nothing in my post justified it at all. It was a just a comparison. Smh
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I feel like at some point there should almost be a new thread about all this shit, cause I think a lot of people don't realise what's happening there right now and don't click this thread cause they think people are still discussing only the coup.
But at least Erdogan was democratically elected.
But at least Erdogan was democratically elected.
Didn't the CIA find that "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" didn't wield better intel than just asking nicely AND it had a degrading effect on the mental health of the person doing the torture?
Kenshin001
Member
France did not remove police, military, academics opposed to the current party in power. That is kind of piss weak whataboutism.
@AFP
#UPDATE Turkish Airlines fires fired 211 employees over suspected links to US-based preacher Fethullah Gulen https://t.co/zkBQ3HsYtQ
#UPDATE Turkish Airlines fires fired 211 employees over suspected links to US-based preacher Fethullah Gulen https://t.co/zkBQ3HsYtQ
France also did not have a coup against them.
Imagine a coup attempt in the US, no way that'd go over orderly lol
"Opposed to the current party"
They are supporters of terrorists. As i said, a coup where hundreds of civilians get killed/wounded is an act of terror. Removing these people who want a parallel state and support these things is not bad at all.
Also this.
And you're telling me about piss weak arguments
Doomshroom
Member
in most cases of terrorist attacks the goverment tells the people to stay indoors or get to saftey. Not go out on the streets and face the threat.
It's interesting that he's involving the opposition parties too.
I suppose that in case everything goes to shit, AKP has now ensured that the blame can't be solely put on them.
anonymous_abc
Member
"You know opposition we really like the great ideas that you have put forth and we think it's fantastic that you are so eager to work with us. We are eager to work with you too, however I think we might ignore those great suggestions for now. Keep them coming through. They help us make everything bombproof. And we wouldn't want you walking out all frustrated now would we.
"- They are not supporters of terrorists, they are alleged supporters of alleged terrorists.
- By the definition, Erdogan is a terrorist as well. He uses force and violence all the time to political ends. Should Erdogan supporters be apprehended as well then?
Frame it however you want, you're not going to tell me that all these people knew about this coup beforehand and assisted in it. There are tons of people being fired, jailed, tortured even, purely because of (assumed) affiliation with Gülen. Not because they actually participated in anything.
Say that Erdogan runs a coup of his own, kills people in the process, just like this coup. Do you think all current Erdogan supporters should be fired and jailed? Journalists, judges, university employees? Police should go through the phone of everyone and jail people who are or were in favor of Erdogan?
Defending whataboutism with a theoretical whataboutism. You do this on purpose, don't you?
You defend torture with torture. Do you have no standards, no respect towards human life?
Herbspiceguy
Member
Was on the news yesterday: Turkish embassy in the Netherlands demanded our government to crack down on Gülen supporters.
An MP responded that they will ignore this and points out the situation regarding justice and rights in Turkey.
An MP responded that they will ignore this and points out the situation regarding justice and rights in Turkey.
In all fairness, there is a bit of a double standard at work with these things, as always. That said, comparisons with France (or the US) are nonetheless pointless and inappropriate. A poor attempt at deflection of his.
France had a coup attempt against them.
It played out quite differently.
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