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I don't find it hard to avoid bad games or getting screwed over by the game industry

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SeeNoWeevil

Member
I just thought I'd point this out given how many people seem to act like publishers have a direct feed into their bank account and are completely powerless to prevent the big bad corporations having their pants down. I don't need a perma-angry YouTuber to tell me what I should object to, either.

Honestly, it really isn't difficult. There are a million and one sources of good reviews/videos, forums like this one where issues are reported within 3 freaking seconds of a game release and Steam refunds. Ignore the pre-release hype, stop trusting marketing departments and have a little common sense. You control the purse strings, ergo, you have all the power. Stop acting like a bunch of addicts incapable of free-will and take some responsibility. Pre-order a game, you're taking a gamble. Buy a season pass, you're taking a gamble. Trusting all the hype before waiting a day or so and reading the reviews, same. People know this, it's not new news.
 
V

vato_loco

Member
purseowner said:
I think you're preaching to the choir here on GAF.
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/thread

Just to clarify: pretty much everyone here at GAF is educated in gaming, meaning we don't get duped as easily as other people. If a game sucks, you'll be hard pressed to find a faster place than here or reddit that lets you know the game sucks or is filled with microtransactions or is bugged as hell.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
That said, never making a gamble is a great way to never be genuinely surprised. I made a leap with No Man's Sky and it didn't pay off, but I'm not sour about it and it won't be the last time.
 
S

SeeNoWeevil

Member
oneida said:
That said, never making a gamble is a great way to never be genuinely surprised. I made a leap with No Man's Sky and it didn't pay off, but I'm not sour about it and it won't be the last time.
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I'm not sure I would gamble on a non-refundable, full-price console game. But then again I'm pretty risk averse. Steam games, sure.


I'm not saying that I haven't succumbed to pre-release hype and pre-ordered, but I like to think I learnt from that and I more often than not blamed myself if it turned out to be a total lemon. There are scenarios where developers have completely flipped a game on its head *post* release via updates, which is almost impossible to avoid and genuinely should incite rage. That's not cool.
 
P

ps3ud0

Member
Im toying with the idea of just playing GOTY versions of games - playing something day 1 (outside of competitive MP) just seems to end up being a worse experience...

ps3ud0 8)
 
G

gigantor21

Member
Thank you, OP.

More and more, I can't get angry about the industry's excesses the way that I used to last gen. It's very, very easy to wait for sales, or just not buy the game if I find it particularly odious (or it's just bad).Just waiting until release and hearing reviews/impressions negates the FUD and fakery studios use to hype up their games. Much of the anger only makes sense in the context of day 1 purchases/preorders, which are always a gamble.

If we take No Man's Sky, for instance, I had doubts that a studio so small could craft an consistently engaging game at such an insane scale. And people were letting their hype for the concept cloud their judgement. So I hung back, and now I know I'm not buying it any time soon (if at all). On the flip side, I had little interest in Doom until after everyone gushed about the game and it got great reviews, so I'll definitely pick that up soon.

There are other things that deserve as much pushback as possible, however, like Gamergate/MRA nonsense.
 
C

Chase17

Member
Same with me for the most part.

Did get burned by NMS though. Knew the game was probably not going to grab me but I was curious about it. Could see the same thing happening with TLG and FFXV.
 
D

DedValve

Banned
Dredd97 said:
going by some of the NMS forums, I don't think he is...
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Thats difference of opinion more than it is game is objectively bad, the OT is still going when its rare for most OTs to stay even semi active after a week.

I stopped pre-ordering a long time ago, last game I pre-ordered was technically Kingdom Hearts 3 back in 2014 when they did a price error.

I'll pick up pokemon day 1 because its pokemon but other than that I think I can wait a few days for impressions on most things.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
Dredd97 said:
going by some of the NMS forums, I don't think he is...
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Exactly. The hype culture around here is pretty intense sometimes, followed by quite a bit of outrage when a game doesn't live up to expectations, or isn't even released as the game that was advertised. In the case of NMS however, I think that some of the ire is understandable. However, the game was never going to be what a lot of people were wishing it was going to be anyway.

I'm not going to stop preordering, but I don't buy that many games to begin with. I'm really selective, and only ever get maybe six titles a year anymore anyway, and it's almost always by a trusted developer. I like saving $15 - $30 per game too.
 
S

Skux

Member
My solution was to get back into my other hobbies.

If all you live and breathe is gaming, that's where your time and (preorder) money will go.

Now that I'm busier I really don't mind that I'm missing out on playing Deus Ex MD because I wouldn't have the time to do it anyway. It can wait until the holidays, once a few patches and DLC has come out and it goes on sale. And by then the consensus will have solidified and will let me know if the game is worth my money.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
SeeNoWeevil said:
I'm not sure I would gamble on a non-refundable, full-price console game. But then again I'm pretty risk averse. Steam games, sure.


I'm not saying that I haven't succumbed to pre-release hype and pre-ordered, but I like to think I learnt from that and I more often than not blamed myself if it turned out to be a total lemon. There are scenarios where developers have completely flipped a game on its head *post* release via updates, which is almost impossible to avoid and genuinely should incite rage. That's not cool.
Click to expand...
Then don't. But there is a consequence to risk aversion, the most obvious of which is your tastes are being tailored by other people's.
 
S

Shadybiz

Member
Dredd97 said:
going by some of the NMS forums, I don't think he is...
Click to expand...

Exactly my first thought, yes. MAYBE this one drove it home for some more people; we'll see.

I preordered Battlefield 4. ...That was the last time I preordered.
Yes, I know it works fine, now.
 
K

kiguel182

Member
People take that stuff way too seriously. It's ridiculous.

Nobody is out to get you. Buy games you like. Relax.

It's pretty simple but if this forum is any indication a lot of people still like to make everything a fight.

There are more good games now than ever before. Go play some.
 
C

CHC

Member
Yeah pretty much. I feel like a lot of this whole "but they duped the consumer!" type argument is mostly by people who (a) actually did make the mistake of being over eager and got burned; or (b) claim to be sticking up for consumers everywhere, but in reality just like watching a train wreck and getting mad about it.

Like, I think you see a lot of (b) with No Man's Sky lately. By this point there is no one is "on the fence" about the game - the horse is beaten dead, yet still the thread goes on trying to dig up more lies and dirt. At some point I think people just like the drama of it as its own thing rather than it having anything to do with a purchasing decision. And that's not me trying to sound critical - it's natural to get caught up in a drama or a "saga" - we've all been there.

But yes, you're right. It's easier than ever to make an informed purchase these days. If you buy into the idea that marketing is some solemn promise of a game's content and quality than, sorry, but you're a fool.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
hydrophilic attack said:
why would you ever preorder a game
Click to expand...

Because you can save a lot of money, and maybe the preorder bonuses are nice? The preorder bonuses aren't enough of a reason to buy the game, but if you were planning on getting it anyway, you may as well preorder and get the bonus that you most likely won't be able to otherwise.

edit: More specifically, in many cases you can actually read the reviews before release day and you can still get the preorder bonus if the reviews look good.
 
J

JoJo UK

Unconfirmed Member
ps3ud0 said:
Im toying with the idea of just playing GOTY versions of games - playing something day 1 (outside of competitive MP) just seems to end up being a worse experience...

ps3ud0 8)
Click to expand...
You know your right, after moving to PC I've been good (except for Deus Ex) and have tried not to pre order. I was terrible for it on console and for the life of me I don't know why.

JoJo UK
 
M

Mupod

Member
I don't have trouble either. I have a pretty good idea of what I will and won't like. I think the only upcoming game I can't get a good read on is FF15, leaning toward negative there but I'm getting it for like $30 canadian so whatever.

NMS was obvious to me from the start. When I saw the price I noped the hell out.

purseowner said:
I think you're preaching to the choir here on GAF.
Click to expand...

Uh, I constantly see outrage over broken ports and especially season pass bullshit. And then there's the smug 'I NEVER PREORDER' posts that follow.

DonShula said:
Never preorder. It also helps to be cheap.
Click to expand...

I would be paying much, much more for games I want on day 1 (or even years later in the case of Nintendo) if I didn't preorder. Games are hovering around $80 here and I refuse to pay that - I use E3 preorder deals and hold on to them for dear life. I still have an ancient Zelda WiiU preorder for $40.

And I've yet to really be burned by this so why would I stop saving money? I still hold off on anything I don't absolutely need, and I guess it helps that 'AAA' stuff barely interests me these days. There are games I can wait for, and some I can't.
 
G

gelf

Member
oneida said:
That said, never making a gamble is a great way to never be genuinely surprised. I made a leap with No Man's Sky and it didn't pay off, but I'm not sour about it and it won't be the last time.
Click to expand...
I will gamble on games I'm not sure are for me at times and that can still bring pleasent surprises. But importantly before I buy that game I will still make sure I have a good idea if the game has any major issues. I don't mind getting a game that just turns out that it's not for me but I'd be mad at myself if rushed out and bought something that if I just spent 5 minutes researching I could tell right away I shouldn't buy it.

I feel like jumping aboard the hype train from the day a game is announced would ruin more potential surprises. Your building a picture of an unfinished game in your head which I feel sets you up more for disappointment.
 
IISANDERII

IISANDERII

Member
His Majesty said:
It's simple for me.

Larian or CDPR? Day 1.

Any other developer? Wait for user reviews.
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I think Witcher 3 was the only game I've ever preordered in my life, and I'm in my mid 30's. I only preordered it because it was $20 cheaper, though I still kind of regret it.

It will be interesting when preordering regularly gives those sort of discounts. But preordering now, LOL @ if you get burned, I love reading those threads.
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
I think you can even still pre-order and avoid being "screwed over by the game industry" for the most part but it involves knowing yourself enough to know what kind of things you like and avoiding both the pre-release hype cycle and not obsessing over every little pre-release detail and building expectations over a moving target. ME3's pre-patch ending didn't bother me because I didn't know what promises Bioware said. Still don't. My wife watched "No Man's Sky" on Colbert, came away with it's a game where you fly in space, discover planets, and name critters, and that's what she got. And she's dumped 30-40 hours into it since release; I haven't seen her obsess this much over a game since Fantasy Life.

I think the last time I've felt actually burned was with Brink, that piece of shit.
 
The Hermit

The Hermit

Member
ThE first and last game I've ever preordered was Diablo III. Never again.

That being said I nearly bought NMS in the first Day...

The only exceptions are sequels with conected storyline (zero escape séries) or stabilished numbered games ( like Phoenix Wright or Rythym Heaven ) because usually I am aware what I am getting until it shits the bed.
 
7

7DollarHagane

Banned
Yeah it's pretty much true. I havent bought a game I was genuinely upset about in a long time.

Maybe fallout 4 was the closest to being really disappointing.

Oh, and halo 5, but at least it has great multiplayer.
 
S

Skulldead

Member
i think the problem here you have to make yourself your own preview and opinion about the game that get release. If everybody say that game is bad.... this doesn't mean that i can't appeal to me.

What i see in "this industry" is more we always take other opinion as it was mean to talk to the reader. Which is far from the case. we have all different taste and past experience.

Like i don't like cakewalk RPG, usually IMO it's mean the game is a failure because he was able to properly balance or did a poor job programming (code behind) to make thing work well. but this not a bad game per se, it just i can say i don't like that game...

Nobody is out to get you. Buy games you like. Relax.
Click to expand...

Pretty summary what i think. Thank !
 
C

Chao

Member
It's really easy for me too.

Never fell for obvious bullshit like NMS, Watch Dogs, I know when companies try to convince me to buy their stuff because even they know its bad.
 
P

PeskyToaster

Member
I know what games I like so I'm not really getting "fooled". I didn't bother watching any videos for the Division I thought it would play like other Tom Clancy games. I sure was wrong. Easy enough to return tho
 
D

DonShula

Member
Mupod said:
I would be paying much, much more for games I want on day 1 (or even years later in the case of Nintendo) if I didn't preorder. Games are hovering around $80 here and I refuse to pay that - I use E3 preorder deals and hold on to them for dear life. I still have an ancient Zelda WiiU preorder for $40.

And I've yet to really be burned by this so why would I stop saving money? I still hold off on anything I don't absolutely need, and I guess it helps that 'AAA' stuff barely interests me these days. There are games I can wait for, and some I can't.
Click to expand...

I am unfamiliar with your home world, but it sounds terrible there.
 
B

bosseye

Member
oneida said:
Then don't. But there is a consequence to risk aversion, the most obvious of which is your tastes are being tailored by other people's.
Click to expand...

This is a great point actually - if you only ever play what the critical consensus has deemed acceptable then you're not really in charge of your own choices. You're essentially getting others to vet games for you. Which is odd - if you like the look of a game, give it a whirl. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith. There have been plenty of games that I've loved, that I would never have played if I'd paid any attention to the majority opinion. And conversely I've disliked enough critical darlings to know that the opinons of others hold very little stock in what I should play.

CHC said:
If you buy into the idea that marketing is some solemn promise of a game's content and quality then, sorry, but you're a fool.
Click to expand...

Exactly. On a forum full of fairly hardcore gamers, its still amazing to me how many refuse to apply any critical thinking to promotional material. NMS, Witcher 3, The Order....and so on.
 
F

fernoca

Member
Dredd97 said:
going by some of the NMS forums, I don't think he is...
Click to expand...
Hard to say. A good amount of threads and replies around NMS were from people that didn't got the game, or barely followed it until the debacle, or followed it based on conceived ideas even the "lies" never mentioned.

So in that aspect, they avoided the hype...but then jumped in the anti-hype. :p
 
K

kiguel182

Member
I bought games that I didn't like. I mean, I pre-ordered Watch Dogs.

You know what I did about it? Nothing. Because it happens. Games are bad sometimes.

I certainly did went to the internet to call devs liars or lazy. I wrote what I thought about the game like a normal person.

Sometimes games are bad. Sometimes we buy bad games. If your first move is to call people names then maybe you need to rethink some stuff.
 
K

karnage10

Banned
After rome 2 i learned my lesson. i already rarely pre-order games and normally buy them at day 1 or at 75% discount , after Rome 2 you can be CDPR and i won't pre-order your game. I'll wait for neoGAF thread.
 
M

Maiar_m

Member
This isn't about you. It isn't about the fact that yes, it's possible not to get screwed over. The problem is they try, and that the industry is building around the notion that you can oversell a feature (or make it up). Sure, the solution is always for consumers to smarten-up, but really the blame isn't on them in the first place. Nobody asked for publishers to sell what's not in their product.

It's like saying "I'm fine with them not making good things since I can wait for them to be available and find out at a later time if they are indeed good or bad" vs "don't make bad things". I think we're all just mostly trying to get the industry stick to the later sentiment.
 
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